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Jeep Grand Cherokee

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  • naatz1naatz1 Posts: 187
    I just saw one go by when I picked my 01 JGC up at the dealer yesterday. Nothing major, does not "trip my trigger" at all. (Vs when we bought a 300M last spring and saw a 300C a couple months later, that was NOT a good looking machine and the wife still dislikes the looks of the new ones which are much more macho by our estimation). The new Jeeps are pretty blah, so it must be function (V6 vs I6) or price (huh?) that would appeal to make one trade up.
  • Sorry to everyone, but I don't know how to start a new web. (?) Anyway here is my question:

    What is the big deal over the Hemi??

    I have three Jeeps, a 2000 GC Limited, 98 Wrangler and a 91 Cherokee.

    I have had many Jeeps in the past and like them all. I think the best engine Chrysler ever put in these rigs was the 318.

    I was all excited about the Hemi. after reading glowing reports here at Edmunds.

    WOW! What a let down. I just drove a GC Limited the new Hemi. My 2000 4.7 has more power! What gives? And the stuff about the seamless transfer between 4 to 8 cyl. ??. I ran at 2000 rpm and stomped it for passing gear. It went from 2000 to 5000 rpm in 1/10 of a sec. then down to 2000 again and started the passing power? I did that 5 times and it always did the same thing.

    Hemi. I don't think so. I'll stick with my POWERFUL 4.7. Whats wrong?

    Thanks, TJ
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    The hemi appeals to me because getting 19-20 mpg highway while having lots of available power would be really nice. I drive a huge amount of miles every year and so a little gain in mpg mounts up in a hurry. And I have a large elevation gain/loss so having the extra power available (but not used all the time) would be greatly appreciated. I got very tired of having to downshift to 4th gear to maintain 70 mph when I was driving a 4 banger.

    And I agree that from the side it looks much like the Envoy or many other SUVs.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    For a while Daimler Chrysler products had that distintive look - in a good way. But now, they have taken a stance that stands them apart in some areas, and I'm not meaning in a good way.

    Looking at the 2005 GC, I loved the driving dynamics of it, but the outside just don't work unless you call it an SRX. It looks too generic. My 2000 GC to me, looks like a Jeep to me. Maybe time will pass and I'll feel differently, but my opinion is that a car should not have to 'grow on me' for me to like it.

    The 300C - my wife said it looked like a coffin. :) Nuff said.

    Funny thing though - i HATE The Cadillac CTS, but I really LIKE the new STS. Is this is a case of the basic design 'growing on me'? :)

    -Paul
  • Be sure to test drive a 5.7 Hemi for quite a while before you buy. It doesn't have the power of the 4.7 and it the gas milage is reported to be not close to the 19 or 20 mpg they put on the window!
  • jglackinjglackin Posts: 164
    Before you change your name to volvosandjeepssuck, let me give you some info that may help you.
    The 4.7L V8 produces 235hp@4500rpm and 305lb/ft of torque @3600rpm. Sticker fuel economy = 14/20.
    The 5.7L V8 produces 330hp@5000rpm and 375lb/ft of torque @4000 rpm. Sticker fuel economy = 14/21.
    Curb weight difference between the two identically equipped vehicles is 54lbs.
    I read your post about what happened when you stomped on the gas and opened the throttle all the way up. I'd like to explain what the MDS system actually does for you. It's a transparent system (one that's never meant to be felt by you) that will deactivate 4 cylinders when the vehicle is under light acceleration or cruising. The vehicle will use all 8 cylinders under all other circumstances. What you did was go from, likely 4th gear, down to first, and back again. Yes, you were successful in activating the other 4 cylinders, but you did not "feel the system working".
    I would suggest that you try again. Now that you have a little better idea of what the system does, and how much power the engine has, drive another one. I wonder if it was really a 5.7 they let you drive - the difference is noticeable.
    Good Luck.
  • Jglackin,

    Funny, I and not volvossuck. However I do have a Jeep GC and a Volvo XC

    Sorry to say but the 2.4 Volvo has much more power than the 5.7 Hemi (I drove)

    And yes, I did drive the 5.7. I warmed it up for 20 miles so it was really up to running temps.

    You are correct about the shifting on passing. However the power for passing was no more than my 4.7. That may have to do with gearing more than hp. I don't know about that. It might tow a great deal more, but since I don't have anything to tow, the 4.7 is just fine. I still say the Hemi of today is 100% hype.

    (I got a Hemi in that!) Good talking point.

    Thanks, TJ
  • jglackinjglackin Posts: 164
    I'll never argue opinions, which is why I gave you the specs. BTW, the 5.7 tows just 700lbs more than the 4.7 (6500 vs. 7200lbs). I think I don't know what you mean by 'power'.
    I do agree with you that the 4.7 is probably just fine for just about everyone who wants a V8 - I actually think the 3.7 is 'just fine'. I've driven all three engines in the GC extensively. I've also driven the 4.0, 5.2, and the 5.9 when we offered them. Each one offers something unique. From a modern engineering standpoint, the engines in the 05 model year are probably about the best ever offered, and match the vehicle very well. If you look at the statistical data, the 5.9L V8 from 1998 and the 5.7L C8 Hemi offer similar performance, but completely different fuel economy. Did you ever get the chance to compare your 4.7 to a 5.9? I know the gearing is different, but I think I'm trying to understand what you mean by power.
  • I've taken three test drives of the 2005 Jeep GC, two with the 4.7 and one with the 5.7. Both are very powerful, but throttled differently. The 4.7 has a mechanical throttle link and is very sensitive; you zoom right away. The 5.7 has an electronic throttle link and can be feathered. The power in the 5.7 is more subtle, but there.

    I'm waiting for the DHS before another Hemi test. About the seats: the fronts don't have map pockets, and the rear couch seems rather close to the floor. Also there are no rear heating/AC controls, just vents. Minor quibbles, but a little annoying. The overall styling of the vehicle is more athletic, but not necessarily more handsome, than the previous model.

    Truck Trend's latest issue rates the GC above the Explorer and the Envoy in a shoot-out.
  • jglackinjglackin Posts: 164
    I have not read or seen anything (from Chrysler) on DHS. I did look into it a bit with one of our factory guys, but got no answer. It would be great to have it - I agree. As far as your other comments...minor yes, but you'd be surprised at the things that turn people off from buying a car. One (even more) minor feature of their previous car that is not available can sometimes be a deal breaker.
  • Another point on my three test drives: two were with the Goodyear Wranglers and one was with the Eagle GLs. Frankly, I couldn't feel the road at all with the Eagles; the Wranglers were much better. But checking the reviews at the Tirerack.com, they don't get good reviews. The best tires for the Jeep would appear to be the Pirelli Scorpion A/T's. Does anybody here have experience with these tires? Is there a way (if I get the Jeep) to have the dealer swap out the Wranglers, put in the Scorpions, and give me credit for the Wrangers?
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    drive straight from the dealer to a tire store that accepts trade ins for credit. :)

    You'll pay less for the tires that way w/o paying any kind of dealer markups.

    -Paul
  • jglackinjglackin Posts: 164
    I agree. I know we don't give credit for tires or other parts
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    Does anyone know for a fact, that when in low range, on a DHS vehicle (would have to be the hemi) the front sway bar is totally disconnected?
    I remember reading some blurb, but can't remember where. The system does this to improve droop and compression.

    Lastly, Am I the only one that thinks not having the 2speed TC available on the Laredo model is bad move on DCX's part?

    to get the most capable rig (off road wise) you now have to by the most expensive one with leather and all the other "stuff". This seems to me that all the people that actually intend to use a Jeep in a situation where low range is required, would not be more pressed to consider 4runners

    R
  • russlarussla Posts: 74
    I want to correct my post.

     

    The QTII 2 sp transfer case is available on the Laredo, if you buy the v8. The build a jeep tool on jeep.com doesn't show this as included when you select the v8, but invoices of 2005's laredo's on the web show that the qt2 case is grouped with the v8

    Regards
  • Russla: Although I'm a member of SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), I'm not an off-road expert and so I've never heard the terms "droop" and "compression" (for off-road). The November, 2004 issue of Automotive Engineering International, pp. 54-60, has a great article on the new Grand Cherokee, "Grand Ride for Grand Cherokee." According to the figure on p. 58,

     

    "The Delphi active stabilizer bar system uses data from accelerometers and the steering wheel position sensor to lock and unlock actuators in the links between the anti-roll bar and the suspension. The front-axle-only Grand Cherokee system conteracts body roll in turns while permitting a smooth ride on straight roads."

     

    So, DHS is for decreasing body lean in sharp turns. I can't wait for a test drive!
  • Purchased an 05 Jeep GC Hemi three weeks ago. Drove it two blocks, got a "check engine" light. Returned to dealer. Diagnosed bad "O2" sensor. Sensor sent from Michigan to Florida and installed in one week. Repair failed. Sent for new computer "brain". One week later received and installed. Technician could not download needed program into brain. District technician called in to help. Diagnosed VIN problem on download. Now I think I am waiting for the computer programmer in Michigan to update his programs to include new Hemi series. It's hard to get a new 05 Jeep!
  • PLEASE! DON'T GET SEDUCED BY 2005 JGC AND MAKE A FOOL OUT OF YOURSELVES. I DID IT, AND REGRET IT A LOT!

    After owning a '98 Limited for six years and 83K miles, maintaining only at dealer, keeping in a garage, the car looked like new on the outside, but was costing $400 each month to fix yet- another-thing. Differential, brakes, electrical, you name it... Loved it when it was new, still loved it when I parted with it. Almost cried when sold for a pittance 7 months ago. Swore never to throw my money in a Jeep's pit again. Our Toyota had 135K, $150 repairs in its lifetime, dents and scratches from city parking and sold in 12hrs for full KBB private party price.

    Well, until I drove the 2005 Hemi... I got taken by the silky smooth ride, power, and ironically -"bang for the buck." Although the color (ugly green) wasn't showing well liked the design also.

    Ordered a Ltd. Hemi and got it a week ago with 4 miles on the ODO; and guess what: from the 30th mile on, the engine started making groaning noises in low rpm. Even on glass-smooth roads a high frequency vibration is clearly felt through the chassis and seats. Nothing like the one I test drove... Gave it the benefit of the doubt that it had to be "worked up" a bit. Drove it gently on highway and city for another 900 miles. The first time I attempted to accelerate and reach 70 mph it was a shock: The low rpm groan was even louder in 65+ mph. Took it to the dealer. They drove the car, agreeing with me. Checked and tinkered with it for 2 hrs like it was a UFO wreck they found in their back yard, only to admit that the new drivetrain in the HEMIs is so new and different that they know nothing about it. Supposedly contacted DCX's "experts." Their advice: Drive it for a while so that the car gets used to it ???!!!### After another 500 miles this Jeep is nothing but a $40K, 8 cylinder lawnmower riding on pebble stones. It's back at the dealer. It's been there for 4 days. 2 hrs. ago the service manager plainly admitted: "We don't know how to fix it. DCX's guys are too busy to come by..."

    I have a feeling it's going to end up being a Lemon Case, actually another usual Jeep case (only this time it couldn't even wait until the warranty to expires). Even if ultimately things get fixed, the feeling won't change: Feel like an idiot not learning my lesson with my old Jeep and throwing another $40K out of the window.

    I GOT BURNED... VERY SINCERELY PLEADING: BE WISE AND DON'T FIND YOURSELVES TAKEN FOR RIDE IN A JEEP
  • jglackinjglackin Posts: 164
    against my better judgement, I'll reply. The HEMI is new to the Jeep line only. It sounds like you are using a standalone Jeep store. I would go to a CJD or a stand alone Dodge store if you really think there is a problem. IMHO, I think you may be a bit too new w/ the Jeep to feel 'burned'.
  • Too bad about you Jeep. If I follow your post correctly, you have put on over 1400 miles in only a week? That's a lot of miles in a short time, especially considering it's been with the dealer part of that time!
  • Thanks for the feedback on trying a Dodge place. You guessed it right, it's a sole Jeep dealership; well-run, friendly place. Their persistence to come and see first hand that Jeep deserves a second chance, is why I ended up test driving the darn thing anyway. At least on the surface they seemed equally frustrated with this. I'll actually got to Dodge, hope it works...

     

    On the miles: you got it right. I put on 1400 miles in a little over a week. I am in sales and drive all over the Northeast. The Toyota I mentioned made most of its 135K miles in 2 1/2 years shuttling between NYC and Boston. I am actually shrewd enough to put these miles on a Japanese :-) My current workhorse is Acura TL.

    With the excitement and intention to give the new Jeep a smooth and "DCX recommended" workout took it for client visits in Upstate NY, and NYC. To keep the message short, skipped the fact that the '05 Hemi was a replacement for our 2001 Laredo, driven mostly by my wife weekdays, and for family outings on weekends. With 68K miles, nearing end of 75K purchased extended warranty, and behaving just like our '98 Ltd. (fix after fix right after mfg. warranty expires) it was begging for replacement. Well, now it must be even clearer why I really feel like an idiot... We always loved our Jeeps, and I guess, like fools were just looking for a reason to own another one. This time it was the new Daimler "quality commitment" hype, the huge improvement in ride, brakes, exhilarating engine, and most of all the list of equipment and technology one gets for the money that took us. Jeeps are irresistible on paper and when test-driven; until one plunks the money, owns them, and then tries to sell...

    Unless Toyota or Honda buys the brand, fires the production people, keeps the designers, and maintains the value equation, this is the last Jeep I will ever own.... (wishful thinking....)
  • Oh now I notice why the question, sorry "carguy". I mistype meant missed "couple". Apologize.
  • Regret:

     

    Thanks for the information. I currently am driving a 2001 Acura MDX, very reliable, but a bit boring. It's got a V-6 and VTM-4; I was planning on switching to the Jeep's hemi V-8 and QuadraDrive II for greater smoothness, traction, and off-roadability--as you say, the specs on paper look great! But I need a dependable vehicle, above-all. So please keep us informed as to how your problems are resolved. Maybe, the 4.7 V-8 would be better??

     

    I did go to another local Jeep dealer to check out the new navigation system. Unfortunately it's not touch-screen, whereas my current one is. On the other hand, it does allow storage of 100 addresses and it does have phone numbers. So I guess it will be OK.
  • Sorry to hear about your 05 GC problems. I have had many Jeeps. I now have a 2000GClimited, 1998 Wrangler Sport 4L and a 1991 Cherokee 4L.

     

    My wife likes the 91 the best. The 2000 is ok but it has a vibration buzz that can't be taken out. It's still a good car. It has the 4.7 which is better than the Hemi they say. Unless you need towing power go with a 4.7.

     

    I had a 93 GCLimited with a 318 and had 189000 when I sold it. Not burning a drop of oil!

     

    Sorry you got a lemon. I have never had any REAL problems with my Jeeps.

     

    I too fell pray to the advertising of the 05 GC. BUT, when I took it for a ride, I didn't think it was any better than my 2000. And I didn't see any REAL power in the Hemi. It didn't have the power my 4.7 has right now.

     

    I'm going to keep my 2000 for quite a while. It's a good car.

     

    My wife wants a new (old style Cherokee) so I'm going to look at the new Hummer 3 (Looks just like the 91 cherokee with my 98 wrangler dash!)

     

    Only time will tell.

     

    Good luck with the 05. I hope it turns out good for you. Merry Christmas. Maybe Santa can help?
  • Thanks for the feedback. As of today Sunday Dec. 19th, the Jeep is still at the dealer. Upon a check with the service yesterday, the problem still not resolved, actually still not even a verdict on what's wrong. Tomorrow (Monday) it'll be a week since it got to the dealer for the second time; has been laying there since...

    It seems to have come down to Santa's Miracle :-)

    If tomorrow no positive result, will pull it back. Bring it again... If not fixed, the fourth time is their last chance... After that the Lemon Law kicks in. Planning to either sell back at a small loss or get a replacement and hope that the new one is OK.

    I guess should've gone for the MDX. You're right, not as exciting as Jeep, yet at least gives peace of mind. Will take reliability over going through this anytime...

    Have a NAV on my Acura TL too, love it... Few times took an associate who drives a Lexus RX330 w/NAV to client calls; according to him, Acura NAV much better... Jeep's NAV is quite nice too, and not expensive to add (again the Jeep bang for the buck)...

    Will keep you posted on this saga...
  • About the 5.2L V-8, I have to agree. When the engine on my 98 Ltd. was hooked up to a computer for emissions tests etc., the mechanic was in awe. According to him, very few engines with such mileage (I think it had 70K+ at the time) show such healthy indicators. Although never got to see such high miles on mine, I'm not surprised it didn't burn oil...

    But the engine alone doesn't do any good.. It's the rest that falls apart. Noise from axles, quickly wearing bearings, time-bomb transmission, brake rotors, electrical, coolant leaks, AC, electrical stuff that sucks up money.

    Can't imagine how you made it to 189K without spending several grand (beyond any brand's usual wear costs) just to have it running reasonably well.

    The boxy Cherokee, must be one of the most reliable products Detroit has ever made. It's so simple and built around time-proven components... No wonder there are so many of them on the road dating back to the 80's.

    As far as the Hemi, my test drive impression was its silky-smoothness, though not the case with mine..

    Can't believe that such frustration will make me a such a message board junkie. Hope, my experience gives the rest some guidance...
  • Regret:

     

    Edmunds consumer score for the 2005 JGC is 9.2, from 22 responders (but that might be expected from early adopters). So, although your case is very serious, I don't think we can jump to the conclusion that all 5.7L Jeeps are going to be problem-prone. I do remember this forum back in 2000 with all the moans and groans, but over the past couple of years it would appear that Jeep reliability has improved, although maybe not to the Japanese standard. So I think we should see how DC resolves your problem before scratching the Jeep off the "most-wanted" list.

     

    I'm now wondering if the Dynamic Handling System will be available for the 4.7L engine, as well as the 5.7L Hemi. Does anyone know? Probably not. Also, what is the fuel economy of the 4.7L with Quadra-Drive II? Is it still 15/20?

     

    By the way an SUV (like the MDX) which gets 17/23 but uses premium grade costs about the same to run as an SUV (like the JGC) which gets 15/20 (4.7L) but uses regular grade; this is verified on the EPA Web site. The HP comparison is 265 vs 235 (4.7L), but the towing comparison is 3500 lb vs 6500 lb (4.7L). So, we agree that the new Jeep sure looks good on paper.

     

    Judging by your comments, maybe the MDS is not working properly; i.e., maybe not four pistons are shutting down--that could cause a great deal of vibration (because the engine would not be balanced). I sure hope it's not the Quadra-Drive II.
  • You are right about the 91 Cherokee We have. It has a 4L as does my 98 Wrangler.

     

    Do you know that the 4L is the old 1955 Nash American block with a Fuel Inj. head? great engine (bullet proof) except its very noisy.

     

    AS far as my 93 GClimited with the 5.2. The only problem I had was at 170K I had to replace the Viscus Coupler <sp. And I think 170K is a good amount of mileage to get out of that part! (however it cost $750 for the part! Other than that I had no porblems with that car! My 2000 GClimited is ok so far. Have some rotor warping, but that is at 74,000. Still very good. We like the car. I may buy a 2005 but not until it's 3 years old with 50,000 on it. Then I never have to fight a dealer for a warranty. I know if something goes wrong it's all mine to fix. I usually buy a GC from a one owner who has just gotten a new one and has had good luck with the one I buy. That has worked for me for the last 30 years and I have never had a REAL problem with any Jeep I have purchased that way! And I sell them usually with over 100K on them. (Traveling saleman) Hope they give you a new Jeep. (If you don't have any problems with the new one and you want to sell it in 3 years, drop me a note here and we will talk! Merry Christmas to all! (Gee, I feel like Santa!)
  • Within the next couple of days, once I find a bit of time, I'll write to you guys about what's happening. Let's just say for now that I treat this as a big fat $40K comedy.

    I see great deal of sense in how you buy Jeeps. Hold until someone fixes the glitches and then enjoy it for a really good price. I commend you... I wish I could do this, but a have a thing about used cars. Never bought one.. I know, it's not rational, but can't help it..

    Merry Christmas to y'all, if not in touch in the interim..

    P.S. But I'll try to write by then, it's a real comedy, well tragedy actually... Well, you guys make the judgment once you find out.. No intention to create suspense, it's just too intriguing to fit into the 5 min. I have now...
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