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The Metro electronic ignition module has a built in current limiting circuit, which acts like a resistor to limit the coil current to a safe level. So you never should use a coil with a built in resistor (3 ohm primary winding) in this type of application.
The coil you now have, which is marked "use with external resistor" has an appropriate 1.2-1.5 ohm primary resistance. However, that marking indicates it was intended for use in an engine that does not have electronic ignition.
Coils that are intended for electronic ignition systems hava a similar primary resistance to your coil, but have a lower primary inductance, and higher turns ratios. And that will produce a stronger spark. It is best to use a coil that was designed for the Metro.
If the replacement coil is connected backwards, that can produce a weak spark. The hot battery lead should go to the coil "+" terminal. And all the high tension leads going to the distributor cap should each have less than 1,000 ohms resistance per every inch of wire length. IE: a 7 inch long wire should have less than 7,000 ohms resistance.
Another thing that can cause a weak spark is an ignition switch that has developed execessive resistance. Connect the plus lead of a voltmeter to the coil's plus terminal, and connect the minus voltmeter lead to the battery ground
terminal. With the engine running, you should get a voltage reading that doesn't differ by more than 0.4 volt from the voltage measured across the battery under the same condition.
I hope this helps.
The second mistake that can lead to Metro engines burning valves is to use the wrong spark plug heat range. Metro engines are more sensitive to plug heat range selection than probably any other stock engine out there. If you choose a spark plug from a cross-reference chart that compares it to another brand, there is a good chance you'll end up with the wrong plug. It's even worse if you use a particular plug in the Metro because it worked well in another type of engine. The ONLY safe way to select a plug is to look up your vehicle make, year, and engine model in a catalog published by the manufacturer of the same brand of plug that you intend to use.
I have owned a 1990 Metro for the last 15 years, during which I have put nearly 200,000 miles on the engine. It has never burned a valve, or had any other internal engine problem. This is the best engineered vehicle I have ever owned. So I am saddened when I see people reporting problems that I know come from improper maintenance.
Try keeping the switch held in the start position AFTER the engine fires, and see if it continues to run that way. If it does, you've got an ignition switch with a bad "run" position.
Joel
I have read somewhere that it could be the fuel injection system.
Your problem is like looking at my car.
I also have a 3 cyl Metro, which ran well, but idled very roughly, at the time I bought it. The previous owner seemed to think it had always run like that. I've now had that car for 15 years, and have found that the idle quality is very much affected by the brand and type of spark plug being used, and also by the adjustment of the air bypass screw in the throttle body.
My Metro does not run well with NGK plugs. Because they're so popular, I've tried many different gap styles and heat ranges of NGKs, but none of them work as well as either Autolites, Champions, AC, or Bosch. The best all around plug has been the Autolite #63. (Yes, I know that is one heat range colder than the book recommends; but my engine runs and idles best with a slightly cooler plug.) My engine has excellent compression, and is not used for many short trips, so the plugs stay clean. For a car that gets more short trip driving, I'd probably use an AC #R42CXLS, which is the stock recommendation. Another excellent choice would be a Champion Truck plug; either #4430 or #4434. The #4430 is slightly less projected, and would do better on the highway; the #4434 would do better in city driving. Both of the Champion numbers mentioned here require a 5/8" plug socket, while the Autolite and the AC numbers I listed take the 13/16" socket that was standard for the Metro. But those plugs are otherwise completely interchangeable. And I make sure the gap is set to .043". Contrary to popular myth, most plugs do not come with their gap preset for your engine. A given plug will often be used in many different engine types, which do not all use the same gap. Since the Metro has an aluminum cylinder head, it is also very important to apply a light coating of "anti-seize compound" to the plug threads before installation. That will minimize the chance that the plug will bond itself to the head from corrosion. Otherwise, the next time the plug is removed, it might take the aluminum threads from the head out along with it. And that can create a major problem.
But back to the issue of rough idling; once the proper plug is in the engine, and the motor is fully warmed up, readjusting the air bypass screw can make a big difference in idle quality. But be aware; THE IDLE BYPASS SCREW IS A VERY SENSITIVE ADJUSTMENT. Because of this, it is not recommended to try adjusting it unless you are experienced with adjusting fuel mixtures. Sometimes just 1/16 turn can make a big difference, but other times it may be 1 or 2 full turns off.
And, of course, there can be no vacuum leaks in any hoses, and the ignition timing must be set correctly.
I hope this helps.
Joel
There should be a dedicated ground wire coming from each of the running light assemblies. Be sure either of them is not broken off or disconnected. And if the ground wire is connected to the body, it would be worth taking the connection apart, cleaning it until it is shiny, and scraping off any rust or paint that might be keeping the connector from pressing on bare metal.
The original battery ground cable goes to a bolt on the engine; this cable also contains a second, smaller wire that is supposed to fasten to a bolt on the fender well. Sometimes people replace the ground cable with one that only goes to the engine. And that makes it very difficult for power coming from the lights to return to the battery. So, if your car does not have a second grounding wire from the battery negative post, you'll need to install a wire going from either the negative battery post, or any clean engine bolt, to any clean bolt on the fender or firewall.
Let me know if this helps. Joel
After driving the car for six years I do think it has something to do with a dirty fuel injector system. I periodically run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner through the gas tank and that does more good than anything to clean up the rough idle. I really don't know what to do do make a more permanent solution.
Thanks for the detailed advice. I think my favorite thing about this car is you can drive it forever even when it's not operating at optimal level. My other car wants to shut itself down if you don't screw on the gas cap tight enough.
Another possible cause could be a sticking EGR valve. Try (or ask a mechanic) to unbolt the EGR valve and thoroughly clean out the carbon from all the passages. Then work the stem back and forth, until you see that it moves and seats freely.
If the intake manifold or the throttle body bolts have come loose, that could create air leaks which mess up the idle.
Some brands of cheap fuel, or fuel which contains alcohol, can also create a rough idle. If you use the same brand of fuel all the time, try going to another station, or to a higher octane.
And if the coolant thermostat has been removed, the engine will run too cold, and that will mess up the idle quality. Your temperature gauge should run 1/3 to 1/2 way up, under normal conditions.
You say that you keep the idle speed cranked up. I hope you mean you just keep your foot on the gas a little when it is idling. If not, then how did you change the idle speed??? There is no adjustment for the idle speed on that engine. There is a stop for the throttle linkage, which is held in place by a lock nut. But that is not intended to be moved. Moving that stop will upset the air/fuel ratio, and will require resetting both the computer's throttle switch and the idle air bypass screw. And if that is not done, it will create a chronic rough idle.
I would also like to know how rough a 'rough idle' is in your experience. An abnormally rough idle will make the gearshift lever bounce from side to side. Anything less than that in a 3 cylinder car may not be abnormal.
See if any of that makes a difference.
Sorry for my English
When you change the plugs ... you must change and adjust if necesary the distance between central pin and ground of the plug .
This must be 0.7 mm ( do it with a standard calibrated blade of 0.7 mm )
If there are no changes ... try to adjust the central plugs regulator ( were all wires from plugs are meeting )
Loos the screw and turn easily till the engine have the most hy turation or sounds good .
After that if it's too turated ... adjust the turation from the gas admision screw at the top of the engine .
Good luck and if you need details write me dicectly to e-mail : florinnicolici#ti.slr.com
And we don't set ignition timing by ear in this country, because the cars have to go through regular emission checks, where the timing is checked with a stroboscope. Timing that has been set by ear will usually not pass such a precise inspection.
And the US model Geo Metros do not have an idle speed screw on the top of the engine.
I appreciate your effort to be helpful, but US cars are very different from the ones you mention.
Another hurdle to ovecome is keeping the car till my dying day. Converting the car to Function as the Superbly Economical XFI model will be done in the future.
Lastly, I plan on accumulating all tools required to be fully independant of the autmotive buisneses that charge you an arm and a leg to fix such a cheap car(cheap as in very affordable to someone who makes $6.75 an hour). So i ask of you to lend your hand out to me and take me along for the ride of a lifetime. I'd be very thankful and indebted to your kindness which eill pass on to others in need.
1991M4L!
p.s: unfortunately i installed NGK's a couple days before i read the post about spark plugs.
Regarding the high oil reading, bear in mind that the Metro is more sensitive to how level the car is when checking the oil than most cars. But it is not good to run it with too much oil. Incidentally, a leaky head gasket can let coolant get into the oil, and raise the oil level.
And just what do you mean by 'cherry compression? The stock compression pressure on that engine is 190 or 195 psi. Most other engines are a lot lower. If the compression is higher than that spec, there could be a carbon buildup problem, which could create a knock.
Anyway, welcome to the Metro owners fraternity!
I have a question regarding my 1990 4dr/htchbk. and was wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem. While getting off the freeway my 3cyl. stopped running. I had someone spin the motor and gas was just dumping like crazy into the carb. A few days previous I had noticed a strong gas odor. Could the fuel injector or fuel pump relay be bad? The timing belt is not broken and there is spark at the plugs. Any help would be welcomed.
You can check to see if the fuel pump relay is working properly, by turning the ignition switch to the position where the dashboard warning lights come on, but not turning it any further, so as not to crank the starter. You should hear the fuel pump hum for one or two seconds after the dash lights come on, but it should then stop. If it doesn't stop, then there's a problem with either the relay, or the electronics that drive the relay.
And if there's a problem with either the fuel injector or the fuel pressure regulator, be sure to replace the fuel filter (located underneath the car, next to the fuel tank) at the time you change those parts.
Joel
I have a 92 Metro 2 dr that has developed a problem with the lights. I have no light execpt hazards. Any ideas?
If you check and repair all these items, and still have not fixed the problem, try unplugging and securely reconnecting all the plugs you can find in the wiring under the dash. If the lights still don't work; please post again and indicate whether the lights all stopped working at the same time, and whether any rear lights, brake lights, or side marker lights still work.
Joel
The bulbs were bad. I installed new ones, solved the problem.
Hope this helps.
Respectfully,
91M4L
91M4L
erburners,,,that s10 gave me a shove.
The 93 5-speed has a rebuilt title and is considered total loss by the insurance co. It gets consistantly 48mpg.Three years ago I put in a japenese crate moter for which I paid 300 dollars.The motor had sat quit a while in a wherehouse because the lifters clacked away for a long time,,but eventually got quite and smoothed out,, que bella.
In regard to the 90 4dr auto not starting,,the car is in the parking lot where Im employed.I work a nightshift so I can work on it a little before work begins.Because of the lighting or old age I didnt notice the timing belt wearing through the plastic cover,,,in essence the crankshaft pulleybolt was working its way out! Hopefully this week I can put it back together and get it running.I will let you all know.
This 90 was my pet project,,I liked this car,, it is roomy and has a/c. It is a 3 cyl. and because its an automatic gets approx. 10 mpg.less than a 5 speed.One month earlier I replaced the piston rings,the rebuilt head I purchased from e-bay, I did lap and put in brand new valves for less than $50,New oil pump,water pump. All items purchased from Bruce Roller with Partsdinosaur from Arizona,,good people.
Three weeks ago I took the 90 automatic metro to break in the rings and bearings on a worthwhile trip consisting of around 800 miles. I took my "GO BAG" for overnight accommidations.It was a great trip,,but the seats need some work. My back was sore the next day.It was a momentous trip which I will always remember.
The American countryside is beautifull and I drove it in my Geo,,,Life is good!!!
Luke
I have a 1990 2 door hatchback, with a 5 speed. I bought it in 1992, with 58,000 one owner miles on it. The previous owner never put anything but Castrol in it. He broke it in on GTX, and then began using their 5W-50 Syntec at about 10,000 miles. He also installed a huge Amsoil bypass oil filter. Since I'm a fanatic about using only one brand of oil, I've stayed with the Syntec, and have kept on using the super fine Amsoil filter. I also add 3 ounces of Tufoil when I change oil (every 7,500 miles, due to the type of oil and the superior filtration). My Metro now has 270,000 miles on it, and never has even had the head off. It now runs better than it did when I bought it, still uses almost no oil, and recently broke it's own gas mileage record (by getting over 57mpg on a 300 mile freeway run). The only work it has ever needed was a timing cover oil seal, a wheel bearing, an alternator, and a water pump. The water pump ran almost 270,000 miles, before the seal finally started leaking about 2 months ago. The car still has the original clutch, original CV joints, and the original struts, But the CV joints will have to be changed soon.
I think the Metro is an absolutely fantastic car. People who've driven it are amazed at how much power it has (yes, I've done some fiddling with the tuning). So I intend to keep this car for the rest of my driving life. And I've learned to live with the tire howl, which always seems to reappear after a set of tires gets a few miles on them. But since It gets better mileage than my friend's brand new Prius, I really can't complain.
Suzuki outdid themselves when they built this car. Maybe that's why they decided to stop making them. But I did modify their design in one important way: I replaced the driver's seat with one from a Camry.
I hope you keep yours going forever!
Joel
If you can get your hands on seats from a GT or GTi, you will be amazed by the difference!
I just sold my 91 GT seats to a chap with a 98, bolted right in!
They will also fit in the convertible, but you must retain your runners. I think that the vert has the worst seats of all. I also have GT seats in the vert, the grayish-silver ones, they are more of a match to the door panels.
The Mark 3 and 4 seats have springs running lengthwise under the seats, whereas the GT seats have a full metal shell. A world of difference.
it jumps when shifting in the lower gears
and it can hardly get up to 50
what the heck is goin on?
something i can do?
i want the push that a geo should have
i think its a 91' metro
All clutches used to be adjustable, but many drivers didn't watch the free play. The free play distance becomes smaller as the clutch wears. If the free play is allowed to go away entirely, then the clutch will burn out. In recent years, manufacturers have begun making self adjusting clutches, so that owners wouldn't have to check the free play. But the downside is that people have become used to cars having self adjusting clutches; if they then buy a car with a clutch that's not self adjusting, and the free play goes away, it destroys the clutch. Knowing whether the car you drive needs to have the free play checked, and always watching the clutch free play are just a few of the many responsibilities we have to take on, in order to survive in today's complex and wonderful world.
Thanks,
Al
If you do see the RPM problem with your car, a good way to double check that is by taking out your O2 sensor, or just taking off your exhaust manifold or pipe that connects to your Manifold (it's easier to take off the manifold because the 2 bolts that hold the pipe onto the manifold rust and break easily when removing. Sounds stupid because you'll be taking about 6 or 7 fasteners out to drop the exhaust manifold). After you've done that you've officially bypassed the plugged up exhaust; Start up your car and rev it up. It'll be loud like a family of chipmunks screaming, but you should see that you'll be able to hit 6500 RPM without any problems. Let me know if this helps. If you don't have the RPM problem, there's a chance that it's something else, but after what I've seen with these cheap catalytic converters, it wouldn't surprise me to see someone else with the same problem.
You might also consider checking your sparkplugs to see if they're fouled out due to the exhaust obstruction. Also, check your Air filter and the assembly that provides the air to the intake. There may be an obstruction there keeping your little car from performing like the go cart it should be. Check your timing, and all of your distributor parts for corrosion and poor electrical connections there. Could be a loose wire somewhere. Also, if you haven't changed your fuel filter for some time, it wouldn't hurt. That may be clogged or dirty if you haven't changed it in the last year causing fuel restrictions to your injector. Bad gas will really make your chipmunk in the wheel engine constipated and irritable. A dirty injector will give you a little grief too. Wouldn't hurt to have your injector cleaned/ serviced. Check your fuel pressure, maybe a bad fuel pump is not giving your engine the much needed sipping sustainance. All of these things could be cheap fixes to your problem. If none of these fixes work, then you may have internal problems in your engine, maybe worn lobes on your camshaft, bad valves, or a dead cylinder. Do a compression check just to be sure before you fix things that aren't broken.
Best of luck to you from a fellow geo metro owner. Let me know how you do.
This problem could also be caused if an ignorant person had tried to reduce the idle speed by loosening the throttle stop screw. The throttle stop screw is factory set. That's why they put a lock nut on it. It should not be used as an idle speed adjustment. The engine computer automatically adjusts the idle speed. Yes, I know that the engine sometimes takes a while to slow back down to an idle; but that is deliberately done to keep the emission levels down. If a knowledgeable person reduces the throttle stop screw position, they also reset the throttle position sensor to a more clockwise position, to match the new stop screw setting.
Versia23 and Zaken 1... wow and double wow.
You two guys will make me believe that the world is a good place.
I thank you for these informations.
I replaced my automatic tranny in Vanilla Latte with a manual and, yes, I admit the idle was very high, I...I...I did set it lower by manipulating the forbidden zone....
BUT I never did go over 4000 rpm, I installed a tacho from the company and I doubt if I can go over that. A few times it did feel sluggish and with pedal to the floor was going 40 miles an hour tops. Then I started unscrewing the gas cap and...presto, power! This happens when the tank is quite full.
But you say 6000 to 6500 RPM? Really?
Come this spring I shall go over all that has been said by you two fellows you can be sure of that.
I thank you very much for your time.
Frederick.
But the problem with unrelieved vacuum in the fuel tank is a whole different issue. That one comes from your charcoal cannister, which is on the firewall near where the speedometer cable comes out. There is a large diameter hose from the fuel tank vent, which is supposed to connect to that cannister. It sounds to me like that hose has been plugged. If that happened, there would be no path for air to get into the tank as you draw fuel out of it. And this would be most severe when the tank was full.
Joel
If you click on a member's username and want to contact them off the forum via email, that's up to you, but no transactions or requests for transactions can happen here at this point.
Since you're new, if you have any questions about the forums, chats, or your CarSpace page, just pop me an email (click on my username) and I'll get you pointed in the right direction!
I can give you tips on picking out a good used car, but I'd consider it a waste of my time, and an ultimate disservice to you, to do so with a 3 cylinder automatic Metro.
Just for your information, I've owned a stick shift 3 cylinder Metro for the last 15 years.
I'll definitely look at that canister in the spring. Right now Vanilla Latte is snoozing in a quiet antique barn, her innards with a Stabil cocktail and her battery in my dry warm basement.
As for economy.....I just don't know....it gets aprox. 58 miles to the gallon and I did a run of 62 once.
My motorcycle buddy is the "culprit" who lowered the idle speed and that did bring down the revs to a steady 850 RPM from 1250. When the automatic was in the revs were at around 850 also.
I switched the tranny and I did get some help here, but I really don't know whre it comes from, except that the garage told me it was in excellent shape and that it came from a three humper. BUT, at 65 miles an hour, my motor is turning at 2600 RPM. Albeit I do have 15 inch wheels on Vanilla.
Besides sometimes lacking some stamina (gas cap thing), the engine runs fine. Although in one post I did see a mention of shaky idling when it has been lowered without the proper knowledge. I swear it isn't shaky , by that I mean it doesn't swing semi violently from left to right. Not to my eyes anyway.
I thank you agoin for your time. Frederick.
I then checked the clutch position switch. I got continuity when I disconnected it and depressed the button by hand and the opposite when I released it. I then checked for voltage at the fuse box under the hood at the 70 amp fuse for the batt, good.
I also checked the 60amp ign fuse, good. I then checked the ign switch in all positions seperatly, all read good. I re checked the cps for current, when depressed it had voltage on both sides, when released, the opposite.
I have power at the starter from the batt cable, but am not getting any power the starter when ign switch is in start position.
The answer is probably starring me right in the face and I just can't seem to see it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
the starter. Thus you may have power at the starter but no solenoid no spin.
I recently had battery short out inside the battery. When I replaced battery
with a new one everything worked great.
Electrical problems with the symptoms you describe are typically caused by corroded connections in the battery cables, resistive switch or fuse block contacts, a corroded, broken or missing auxiliary ground wire from the negative battery terminal to the sheet metal of the body, or a defective or improperly charged new battery.
The fact that the dash lights dim when you turn the key to the 'start' position, but the starter doesn't receive battery power, indicates that the battery either doesn't have enough energy to drive the starter, or that there is a substantial resistance on either the hot or the ground path between the battery and the starter, or that the starter solenoid is not being activated by the ignition switch.
The way to sort out these possibilities is to test them one by one, and eliminate the possibilities that test good. These tests are designed to depend on each other, so do not skip any steps or change the sequence. The first thing to do is to test the battery, while leaving it connected as usual. Attach the voltmeter leads to both battery cables, and confirm that the meter reads 12 or more volts when the key is off. If the meter reads less than 12 volts, take the meter leads and hold them directly on top of the battery posts. If that brings the voltage up above 12 volts, the battery cable clamps are either corroded or loose. If the voltage does not come up, then the battery is either defective or improperly charged.
Once you get 12 or more volts at the battery cables, have someone turn the key to the 'start' position while you watch the meter. This is a tougher test, which may produce different results that the one in the previous paragraph. If the voltage drops below 11 volts, while the starter does not turn; try the test again while the meter probes are held directly on top of the battery posts. If that brings the voltage up, then there are bad connections at the cable clamps. If the voltage does not come up, the battery is either defective or improperly charged.
If the battery voltage stays up during all the above tests, then the battery and its cable connections can be ruled out as a problem. The next step is to check the ground path. First, confirm there is a ground wire running from a fender bolt to either the engine or the negative battery terminal; and that the battery ground cable is attached to an engine bolt. Leaving the positive meter lead connected to the battery, move the negative lead to a clean engine bolt. You should see 12 or more volts when the key is off. Turn the key to the 'start' position, if the starter does not run, the meter should not drop below 11 volts. If the meter drops below 11 volts, there is a problem in the ground cable or its connection.
If the voltage stayed above 11 in the preceding test, the ground leg can be ruled out as a problem. The next thing to check is the positive battery cable. Take the positive meter lead off the battery, and move it to the battery cable at the starter. Turn the key to the 'start' position and watch the meter. If it drops below 11 volts, while the starter does not run, there is a problem in the positive battery cable or its connection to the starter.
If all the above tests were good, then connect a jumper lead to the battery positive cable (be careful to not let the free end touch any metal parts), and briefly touch it to the solenoid terminal on the starter (where the wire from the ignition switch normally connects). The starter should now run. If it runs, then you have a resistive connection in the ignition switch or the fuse block.
those in your area let me know I will get the store to mail you some.
You were given bad information by the person who told you there is no fuel filter on the Metro. That car has a very fine filter, which is located underneath the car, on the driver's side, just in front of the fuel tank.