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Ford Focus ZX3 vs. VW Golf
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Comments
There's no doubt that the Focus is a great deal. I haven't driven one yet, (can't find one to test!), but I think that Ford's hit a homerun in styling, (love or hate it).
When it comes down to it, there are 10 main reasons I've decided to go with the Focus:
1. Weight difference. For an automatic (I've got a bum leg, so have to drive an auto), the GLS 1.8T (aprox. 2,994) is over 300 pd heavier than the ZX3,(aprox. 2,650). This just about makes the turbo's hp/torque advantage vanish.
2. VW's lame 2 year/24,000 mile warranty - get real.
3. Golf's are almost impossible to find here in the Detroit area, let alone purchase under MSRP.
4. VW salespeople have been downright rude to me, and they give the word "clueless" new meaning. It's bad when you know more, a *lot* more, about the product than the people supposedly selling it.
5. VW's crummy ordering system. It's just about impossible to get *exactly* the car you want. They want you to take the "package" cars that are sent over to them.
6. Premium gas. Yes, I know that some folks say you can run reg unleaded, these engines are designed to run on premium. Run reg and you risk problems, poor performance, and reduced milage.
7. Insurance - I was quoted a much higher rate for the VW turbo than for the reg 4 banger in the Ford.
8. Possible long waits for parts/repairs on VW, although it seems like Focus owners are experiencing similar problems.
9. $400 Ford college graduate incentive.
10. Price, price, price! Like silyboy stated, a GLS 1.8T, with automatic, CD player, and destination is going to run way over $20,000. A totally loaded ZX3 tops out at under $15,600.
I really like both of these cars, they both have advantages and drawbacks. If I had expendible income, I might go with the Golf, but being a graduate student on a tight budget,I just can't justify spending the extra $$$.
krazyrabbit: I agree with much of what you say except points #1 & 2, but you say you haven't even driven the Focus yet! How can you like a car which you haven't even driven? You are comparing two cars that are worlds apart (IMO) in terms of ride and refinement (and price.)
Cheap cars are almost always the better deal, because any car will get you around.
If you drive both cars together you will see that your statement #1 is rediculous. The VW despite it's weight is way faster. (And the weight gives it a better ride and feel.) The 1.8T is the engine from the VW Passat, and even in the Passat it's going to be faster than the Focus (and smoother and quieter etc. etc.)
As far as #2 goes, VW's also come with a 10 year, 100,000 mi powertrain warranty, and include maintenance for the first 2 years. A 2/24 BTB combined w/ a 10 yr powertrain warranty is NOT "lame"! Get real yourself. How would you like to give someone you don't know a guarantee for 10 years on something as complicated as a turbocharged 5 valve/cylinder engine. That is an impressive warranty.
I don't own either VW or Ford, but I've test driven all of them several times recently. The Focus is a nice inexpensive car, and the VW is a nicer more expensive car. And the 1.8T and Lux Pkg etc adds a lot to the price. If you want a really nice econobox, you might like the Mazda Protege ES (w/ 1.8). They've got a $1000 rebate right now (Edmunds buy of the month.)
The Focus went on to take first place honors in two other catagories. The ZXT, Family Sedan under $25,000 and the LX the Economy Class.
Now let me see, how many awards does that make in 2 years? Is it 23 or 21? What ever, can Golf come any where near that?
I've driven a German Golf, owned a number of VW Rabbits, a Beetle Convertible, and a VW Baja Bug. Enjoyed all of them except for the Rabbit rust problems and diesel blow by problems. Now, when it comes to enjoying the handling and comfort, none meet the Ford Focus ZX3.
Focus ZX3 Rules!!!!!
proud daddy of a ZX3
True, but there's got to be some reason why the VW Golf has out sold everything in it's class for nearly 5 long years.
I can hit highway speed in less than a mile in my ZX3 and have no trouble with the steep grades of Southern California.
Honda can afford to make better engines, because they make far fewer of them. Honda might make 300,000 engines a year where Ford maybe makes two million with maybe triple the staff than Honda. Hondas usually cost more than Fords (although the Echo is a couple grand cheaper than a Focus).
Focus zx3 is a very good hatchback car as well.
But 2.0 ,115 hp Golf weights 300 lbs. more than 130 hp zx3,Golf with that engine is just lazy and overweighted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(1.8turbo is far superior,though),that's why zx3 is faster on the start.Speeds over 120 mph are not meant for either car.
Both cars are very comparable,on some things golf is better on some zx3 is one,
ONLY THE PRICE IS NOT COMPARABLE
I'll take zx3 and $5000,that's it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For $20k you can buy something more than a very nice compact car these days.
carlady/host
When you are comparing cars first you have to compare what are you getting in a car for how much.That will tell you how good of a value your car is. Unless you don't have to worry about money,than it is a different ball game.
Most of us are not millionaires and are carefully spending hard earned dollars.
SO PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT GOLF OR GTI ARE A DIFFERENT BREED ,SURE THEY ARE AND ONLY YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT!!!!!IS IT WORTH IT ?YOU GOT TO ANSWER YOUR SELF.FOCUS ZX3 IS $4000 CHEAPER THAN GOLF AND GOOD $5000 TO $8000 CHEAPER THAN GTI!!!!
IF YOU LIKE GERMAN CARS ,YOU SHOULD KNOW WHY GERMANS ARE WHERE THEY ARE ,THEY ARE BIGGEST PROTECTIONISTS ,BUYING WHAT GERMAN FIRST NOT EVEN CONSIDERING ANYTHING ELSE.
just another two cents of mine.
It is just a discussion and when someone can't see a point you've got to help and use caps to see it better.
I know GTI well because my brother got one, it's a 2000 GTI GLX V6 (i hope you like those caps)
I love that car ,it's powerful ,quiet,very well finished car,there is a lot more good to say about it... as you know.
But it cost $10k more than tickbitty's ZX3!
OK ,it's a better car so it should be for that much more $$$!
From what i know it is very hard to buy GOLF/GTI at invoice price,ussualy you have to pay list price or more ,while ZX3 can be purchased at invoice price or bellow and that's where the $3K difference is.
So there is a standard equipment on ZX-3 that is not on GOLF/GTI; battery saver,CD player,one year longer bumper to bumper warranty,more room.
ZX-3 is a better overall value than GOLF/GTI,what does not mean ZX3 is a better car than GOLF/GTI!
I don't have to prove my point, my point is there, either you finally get it or not.
good luck ,though.
What a ridiculous comment. Ditto with Judas about the use of CAPS.
As for the cars, I think in the short term, in either case you get what you pay for. In the long run, the Golf is probably the better deal (doesn't resale value already reflect this).
More room,you can look up the specs and you can check it, Focus is roomier.
The parts cost less for focus than for GTI.
You can select what you want on focus,and I heard that you don't have any choice with GTI,just buy it the way it stands on the lot.
I agree that the warranty is a close call unless
you live in a very humid climate, than VW's 10 years corrosion warranty is a great thing to have and that is making a VW's warranty a better deal in those locations (Florida,South-East...)
Also I think that Echo is just in the different class than Focus or Golf/GTI.
If you look at the Focus as a package it is a great value, as good or better than Golf/GTI.
Again, I like the Golf/GTI a lot but i think that Focus is very much comparable; even,better or worse in all areas.
Let's don't talk about luxury with our knees touching our chins.
And I will say that one more and hopefully last time, Focus is less expensive than Golf/GTI so it's nothing unusual that Golf/GTI should be a better car.
Better car does not mean a better value, to me and my expectations focus(zx3) is a better value than Golf/GTI. So, let's understand each others opinions and personal preferences, and lets not compare (better,worse) anymore. What is better for me does not have to be better for you.
We're only damaging overall good press for those two fine cars. There is a lot more good than bad to say about those vehicles. So let's enjoy the fine sides of Golf/Gti and Focus, rather than look for a few weak sides of them.
This post was started by me and it was to compare the Golf GL with the zx-3. Both are 2 doors with crank your own windows and when you option up a zx-3 with side airbags, ABS, power door locks the price is not outrageously different. (Perhaps the base GL is 1500 more---I have forgotten the exact difference).
In no way was this post to compare higher luxurious or sporty Golfs. I bought a zx-3 for your information after finding that no dealer in my area carries the very affordable Golf GL.
I am pleased that my post generates passion however.
ZX-3 Rules,
ND
I really think it is a good car "as is" but I'd like the option of changing a few things down the road. (Based purely on aesthetics, the car looks like it should be 1.5-2" lower with slightly larger diameter wheels.)
Any leads you may provide may help me in my car-buying decision. Thanks
I bought the Golf because I just plain like it better. Yup, it's more expensive. Way more expensive. But that's because it comes standard with ABS, side airbags, 4-wheel disc brakes, those $200 remote entry keys, a gigantic discount on my insurance(it costs me less for full coverage on my 2000 Golf than on the 1990 Golf I just sold!)
I wish that I liked the Civic Si or the Focus ZX3, but they just didn't do it for me. And the Honda salesman didn't like it much when I spun the engine up to 8 grand and got the Si going 75 in third.(that's why it was built, no?)
Finally, around Boston, if you hunt for the internet discount shops, you can get a great deal without much haggling. (hunt a lot, because different online dealers will quote you different prices. My fiancee bought a VW from a carpoint dealer for $300 under sticker, while I bought one for $50 over invoice from a different dealer who also works with them.)
I got a guy to order the exact car I wanted from the port(in Boston) and he sold it to me for $50 over invoice.
That's a 2000 Golf GLS, with sunroof, Monsoon system, 5-speed, ABS, and so on... for $17,400 out the door.($18445 sticker, for reference.)
The turbos are a little more, because of current limited supply, but you can find them for $300-$500 over invoice if you're not picky about color.
Yup, I got religion, and it's called fahrvergnugen!
Pardon the ranting.
This issue is not of interest only to tall people; I am only 5'8", but what there is of me is configured with relatively short legs and a long body. I can't fit into a 3-series BMW without tilting the seat back! A sunroof in this car forces me to tilt my head sideways around the coaming. When visiting Germany, I am struck by the size of it's people; how they fit into their cars, I don't know.
In my case, a more upright seating position is much easier on my back. The Focus has more headroom than many full-size cars and was definitely a consideration when I bought one.
thanks
I am about to get a ZX3 in a few more days. I have always been a huge fan of all VWs and I originally wanted a 2000 Jetta. But as we all know VWs idea of a reasonably price car for young buyers is not really reasonable(even though they are so cute!) So anyway, after checking out the Focus sedan my father told me to look at the ZX3 which I later fell in love with. At the age of 19, the ZX3 is much more practical to me than the Golf especially for my uses.
I was reading recently that Ford's idea with the Focus sedan and ZX3 was to the similar appeal of that the new Jetta and Golf have for a price that the average family can afford to buy one for their kids. After nagging and nagging my parents, they refused to shell out $20,000 for a Jetta and I have never been a huge fan of the Golf. So to shoppers who realize they don't need all the extras of a VW or just can't afford them(like me), the Focus is the perfect alternative.
For all u poor people like me, look on the bright side of the ZX3. How many economy cars give you a standard cd player and 130hp engine?
Beating something at a stop light to stop light race isn't that impressive. I beat a friends high 12 second Mustang in a street race in my high 14 second MR2 just because it was impossible for him to get any traction off the line because he was making about twice the power that I was. Did I brag about it afterwards? Of course not, there's no reason to.
My advice is go drive both and go from there, in this price range, no real reason to look at any other car as they are simply not as good.
Jimmy
Customs, Imports, Exotics, Classics, Lowriders, anything... as long as it looks good/kicks [non-permissible content removed].
I also spend alot of my spare time car shoping. After all, i just moved to the Sacramento area In california and live like 2 minutes from the Roseville Automall (THE first "Automall"). Ive looked at almost every car availible in the US in the past year (did most of this while helping my mom shop for a new car, she bought a 2000 Suburu Legacy GT Limited Sedan) and im probably going to get a new car in the next year or earlier, depending on how long my current car lasts... (its been having ALOT of engine trouble lately).
Figuring that ill probably only be able to spend in the 15k range, and need a car that can carry stuff but prefere cars that are nimble and small, ive come down to the Focus Zx3 as my #1 Practicle choice for a car. But if i could spend in the 20k range, i would either go with a Golf 1.8t, a Bug 1.8t, or a Suburu Impreza 2.5RS.
I test drove the Golf a few months ago, and i was impressed... but as some of the previous posts have stated, it is a little "soft" in terms of suspension, but not soft and stiff like a BMW (test drove a 3 series as well). Last week, i drove a zx3 and i was very impressed... It didnt drive like a ford! (seriously) Heck, it didnt feel like a ford at all... It felt like a VW. 130hp doesnt sound like much, but its more than most cars at that price range, but its more than a base golf and that much less money (btw, you can order a New ZX3 for just $100 over invoice). The actuall interior space is very simular, but the Focus has much more head room. And yes, the golf does have more "neat" stuff in it like VW's have, and the quality is a little better... but once again, theres the price difference. And i know that alot of people cant stand buying american, just as i know alot of people cant stand buying foreign, but the focus is simply not a typical ford in any sense, even reliability. The focus has been out in Europe for much longer than it has in the US, and if you were to go there right now, you might notice something... Focus's are EVERYWHERE in europe (my cousin was just over there). Now if Europeans are buying fords... thats got to mean something.
Dont forget that the 2001 focus ZX3 will have 16 inch wheels in the premium package for basically free (try pricing it out) which is another good mark for the focus if your planning on buying.
Btw, just to make everyone know that im not ford-happy... if i were to buy any reasonable (ie not super expensive) car i could today, i would buy a Lexus IS 300
BUT, i just read an article about the Focus-R that its going to come out next summer probably, and will have a base cost just UNDER 20k! (220hp for 20k with no mods required? Nice)
Let the flaming on me commence!
carlady/host
I don't think you've been in a base Golf or else you would say something so outright wrong. Other than having different cloth seats, no power windows, and no armrest, the base Golf (there is no base "golfs", the only base Golf is the Golf GL), uses the same rich materials as in the higher trim Golfs and, in fact, the same materials as in the more expensive Passat. And if you read any review of the Passat, you'll most likely see a compliment about the rich-looking, rich-feeling materials and design of the interior.
"junk" and "reek of cheapness"? uh, no.
p.s. My next car will probably be a Focus 5-door so I have nothing against the Foci.
Problem with Golfs is the money though, but with the Sports Suspension option for 2001 I would actually thing about getting one in the $20k price range (1.8t of course)