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It is nice to know that there are people for whom Saturn has been a completely or nearly flawless car. I think my string of bad luck started with the fact that I had to go to the dealership early on for warranty repairs. First repairs were done in such a sloppy way that I had consequential problems and it snowballed. I have gone to the dealership a lot during the first 3 warranty years.
Now after 5 years, the car seems to be generally OK but I do not feel that it is a reliable car any more. Although I have been doing all my maintenance when called for and I know I have been doing it right.
Ingtonge: About cars using a lot of oil during break in, yes I have noticed that too. My new Ford Ranger also has about 2500 miles on it and has used maybe a 1/2 quart so far. Don't they usually use thinner oil during the break in period? I know when you have an engine rebuilt they do. I have also had two new Hyndai's in the past and never had to add any oil to either.
dave
I don't remember the name of the additive. I first read about a similar product in Car and Driver, then I looked for it and found this at Wal-Mart. Next time I'm there, I'll look for it and let you know. It was only about $4.50, but it does recommend repeating at each oil change. I'm hoping it will last longer. My car has now gone 3,000 miles without adding any oil. But it didn't use as much as yours to begin with. I've only been adding about a quart every 3,000 miles.
I almost killed my engine too when I first realized it was consuming oil. It had been 6-7k miles since an oil change and it started losing power on a trip. I continued to drive another 50 miles before I thought to check the oil. It only had about a quart left in it! I think the reason it didn't burn up is because I use slick 50 at recommended intervals. Supposedly, a car can run with no oil for a while if you use it.
To the ewesson: No one should have to worry about their engine using 4 quarts of oil in 4,500 miles. That is outrageous for a low mileage car. At the same time, I understand that it was your responsibility to make sure your car is full of oil. If you'd noticed the oil consumption before 36K, the warranty would have covered any cost to repair the oil consumption (one would hope).
I am perfectly aware where the oil dipstick is, and even commented in one earlier posts that I changed the oil myself. I do care about my cars. So no need for your sarcastic tone. In fact, you would realize your sarcasm was misplaced had you read the earlier posts.
I repeat one of my earlier points: the problem is not so much that Saturn makes an engine that drinks oil; it's that they don't take any responsibility for it. I would be a lot less irate if Saturn had informed me that it was important to check the oil frequently. How about putting "Check oil" as a 500 mile service interval? Or, for that matter, putting in an oil pressure sensor that actually warns of oil pressure low enough to result in engine damage?
If I had bought a RX7, I hope I would have been made aware of its oil consumption tendencies. I might anticipate oil consumption with the rotary engine, but Mazda shouldn't expect I would become aware of it by osmosis. As it was, the first I heard of these tendencies was after the engine blew.
For perspective: I owned, drove, and raced a Datsun 510. It had in it a used, lightly modified motor, and I put additional miles on it to bring the total to around 80K. I drove this car very hard, frequently running the 1.8 liter motor to 7K rpm. The car was totaled (not by me, another story there), and I sold the engine for several hundred bucks. The guy checked the compression on my garage floor and it was still quite strong. And the motor still didn't drink any oil.
So you can perhaps understand that I was surprised to find that my Saturn motor had an appetite for oil. It's just not something you expect in a new car.
The second, a 1994, wasan't as good. I had to have the transaxle rebuilt at 40,000 miles and by 80,000 miles it needed a valve job and a whole new wire harness. THe dealer told me it would cost more to fix it than the car was worth. Both car were very well maintained. The 1990 I believe had a Mitsubishi built motor and the 1994 had a Hyundai built motor. But at that time they only came with a 36,000 mile warranty, not the 100k one like now.
The only recommendation I make to both defenders and offenders is to avoid anything resembling a personal attack. Note I never said you're dummies for buying Saturns, but just said I feel hurt and betrayed by the company's behavior.
To repeat: those of you who are successful Saturn owners, good for you. Nothing is better than loving the car you drive. Just try to understand the anger that some owners may have. Pity them, as they are not as well off as you.
Interesting reading is what makes me keep coming back to these forums.
That and that I'm in the last days of a job and don't have much to do.
If you don't mind me asking, if it is "over," what are you doing back. Isn't this the third time that it has been over now? Or is it the fourth? I've lost count.
You claim you don't know who Goldstrom is yet you read enough of his posting to know what kind of cars he has.....interesting.
Oh well. Glad to see you are back.
We've both been very pleased. My wife's '96 with auto has a sunroof and power door locks, neither of which she will ever do without again. She gets about 28 mpg in mostly 2-10 mile trips here and there in traffic to both of her jobs. I get 33-35 mpg on mostly Interstate highway driving in my 5-speed (which also has a sunroof).
Neither of us has had unusual problems. Her brakes went south at about 36K, but the replacements are doing well at about 60K. My wife will definitely replace this car with another Saturn, changing only the color (from the Red to a green) and adding a CD player and possibly cruise control.
Mine has 57K and I have no complaints. I love the handling and the cruise control (never thought I'd use the latter, but it's very handy when Smoky's out in force.) The interior trim, while uninspiring, is holding up, although the sunroof panel (the opaque shutter) gave some trouble a while back. Oil consumption for both has been average or better; in fact, this week is the first time I've had to add oil between changes, and I've gone about 3500 miles.
Question: Has anyone had problems with the 5-speed as the cars get up in miles? I'm not, yet, but I want to be prepared.
As opposed to (e.g.) the Taurus and LH autoboxes, where considerable time is spend arguing whether 'x' number of transmission failures is significant or not. Why is it even brought up as an issue?
It would be fabulous if truly independent third party were to dig into the objective facts (i.e. not self-reporting, so not Consumers Reports or AutoPinion) and determine why this is.
As in many fields, there are occasional revolutions and perpetual evolutions in transmission design, so often the techniques and suppositions are carried over from one generation of Automotive Engineers to the next.
dave, who just drove a '97 M3.
dave
OTOH, maybe you don't see them on the used lots because they get snapped up, eh?
I was talking to a lexus dealer and he said when saturns get traded in, all the college kids come up to get 'em. Personally, i'm surprised the lexus dealer sells used saturns.
dave
In anycase, I sell Saturns. I try to be as unbiased as possible, because it gives me crediblity with my customers.
With any car is possible to have problems. Go check out the Honda or Toyota threads and you will see what I mean. The nice thing about Saturn corporation IMO is that if you do get a problematic car they have a good track reccord of resolving the problem.
The one thing about people tho is that if they are mad, they are going to get even madder if they have happy Saturn owners in their face. I understand that.
In anycase I'll be checking out this thread for a while. If anyone has any questions they are welcome to ask me. I'll try to give the best answer I can.
BTW - Just so you know where I stand, I really don't like the S series saturns, except the SC2. The L series are VERY nice however.
Sorry, too easy!
dave
What other cars do you check out before going for your Saturn?
Except for brake pads rotors replace/filer Oil & Air, EGR valve. Other than that its still running very well.
Its not a perfect car but has serve me very much for 8 yrs. Sure the engine is noisy, but hey the car is reliable, haven't had towed or stuck on a highway or in the driveway.
I drive the car everyday to work & pleasure, thru all summer/winter in Toronto.
The car still looks (new) good when polish, no dents or whatever on the side. All cars should have dent resistant.
And the car is easy to repair and very practical. I would buy another Saturn until this thing stop running.
In fiarness, i don't think what VW is building today has much to do with your 15 year old rabbit. I heard those are bulletproof. Remember, the golf has changed quite a bit in the last 15 years.
Beleive you me, if I thought it would be reliable, I would be thinking VERY seriously about getting a new GTI right now.
Getting a bit off-topic here. If you want to talk to me more about this, let's go to a VW topic, or e-mail me ( address in profile )
dave
Escort, Cavalier, Neon and Stanza. The Saturn I drove a couple days later. Neon and Stanza in my opinion, were very niosy inside when accelerating. The Escort did not have decent acceleration. The cavalier was the winner for me at the end of my own testing but no dealer in a 35 mile drive had a Cavalier LS. My wife saw a Saturn ad and suggested I drive one. I drove the SL1 and then a SL2. Again in my opinion the SL2 had a more comfortable drivers seat and better power on hills than the SL1. I gave the chevy dealers still another chance to get me a Cavalier LS. One had one but would not even deal with me (I had the edmunds printout and their only response was I did my homework and basically refused to sell a car a real shocker). Back to Saturn and I was able to get one with what I wanted; ac, auto, ps, pb, cassette, (next time it will be a cd player). My reasoning in test driving as many as possible in one day was I felt I could compare them better.
Another thing is , I can't quite figure out or understand why most of the Saturns advertised '4sale' in newspapers,mags,etc. are not equipped with ABS & Traction-control*? I mean, this "pkg" is one of the most important safety feature/option on a car that no one should neglect!?
As for abs/traction, etc, on the S cars, well, most cars in that range don't have it standard, and it would make them look more expensive. But i think it should be standard on the higher-end cars like the sl2. Also, in some areas, like the southwest, they are mostly useless features.
dave
I'm located in NYC and the ABS/Traction Control feature(in my opinion) is a necessity. But unfortunately, most of the SL2s(90%) sold around the tri-state area do not have the feature/option.
Do you also know if a Saturn dealer can install this option for a pre-owned SL2?
I'm not sure what price range you're looking for, but saturn has very low financing as well as special lease deals right now, so getting a new one is not so bad, and then you can get the options you want. If i lived in ice country, i would insist on abs/traction as well. I'm surprised they don't sell more of those though. When I was in chicago in winter last time, I drove my rented grand am like a mainiac, constantly flooring it on the icy ground, and doing parking brake skides. I think I burned out the "traction" light.
siamese:
Hmmm... I'm not sure how big a wheelchair is when folded up. All I can suggest is trying out several cars. Maybe hatchbacks would be good for you? Some of those can be small, but still lug a ton of stuff. I'm thinking then wheelchair + other cargo. Our saab hatchback is awesome at hauing stuff. The cirrus i hear awful reliability reports about.
dave
Siamese;
Instead of just looking at sedans, check out the wagons that are available. Should be able to find Saturn and Escort, or as he suggested the models that offer hatchbacks. I know that the folding strollers (for grandkids) takes up most of the trunk on my SL2, so I feel a wheelchair would fill the trunk.
FYI: Looking to buy not lease. I don't believe in the concept, lease.
Today I purchased a 97 SL2 for my son to commute to school. When the car is stopped and in gear, we hear a loud vibration. It seems to come from the whole dash board and/or from under the floor. It is only noticeable inside the car and is very annoying sound. We did not notice the vibration in the test drives, probably because the AC was on.
I will be bringing it back to the dealer tomorrow and may have to take advantage of the 3 day return policy!
I periodically drive it when she comes over to my house to make sure there are no rattles or funny noises and because I enjoy checking it out and driving it. I am so very impressed with this little car. It's an SL2 and only has 8,500 miles on it and I think, for the money, it is a great car.
It rides great and there have been absolutely no problems with it to date. The people at Saturn were a pleasure to deal with and I really feel she is in good hands if ever she needs to have anything done to it. I would like to get one myself but I am tempted to wait until the 2002 model because I understand there may be a major face lift and would like to see if it has even more appeal. Does anyone have any inside information as to what the 2002 SL model will look like compared to the present model? In some ways I hope it doesn't change too much.
Specifically, I am looking for touchup paint for my '95 SL2 (med Blue Green)
There are a couple other things I need, but this is the main one, & the dealer nearest me is only open during the hours I work, & is 50 miles away...
They do not want to send me the paint in the mail, (actually expect me to take a day off of work just to drive over there!)
Any help would be great!
Stephen
dave
Has anyone had a problem with a cracked cylinder head on their '96 SL with the SOHC engine? This was the problem that Saturn sent letters out about a year or two ago. Our SL's coolant is still clear pink and the car is not losing oil, so I think we are safe for now. Of course she only has 49K miles on the car, so the problem could still develop. I would be interested to hear from someone who has been through this, and how it was resolved.
If I were you I wouldn't put too much faith in a messege board where mostly people only come to complain about a car, and thier unfortunate experiences. In some cases, in this room and others at edmunds.com, stories from supposed owners often cannot be proved as to thier authenticity.
As for Ford, if you liked your tracer so much why not give the Focus a whirl. On the other hand, for 2000 Saturn achieved a number 2 Spot in overall Customer Satisfaction from JD Power & Associates, www.jdpower.com Saturn did better then BMW, Mercedes, Acura, to name a few. In the end, some Ford's will hold up better then others, and Some Saturn's will hold up better then others.
Keep in mind that the Saturn was rated a best overall value by Intellichoice, www.intellichoice.com under 15k. The Saturn also received the highest Crash Test rating possible from www.nhsta.com. At this point you might as well flip a coin to decide good luck.
The new Saturns have signifigantly less harsh engines than prior years and I would expect that the need for replacing the engine mount is over. Also they have made changes to to increase the life of the alternator.
All that being said, I would not buy an SL2. I would spend a little more (very little) and get an LS. Its not much more and its WAY better in every way. Although it doesn't have a long track reccord I can point to, they are fantastic cars.
Whatever you decide, good luck