Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
So, germancarfans, don't tell us 9 months from now that Lexus has "failed" a goal to match BMW in driving dynamics...it looks like they aren't trying to achieve that, per se.
leave all the electronics out and actually drive the old-fashioned way, which some here will hail.
H.E.L.M has never been about leaving things out, be it electronics, or leather, or wood. Leather and wood have never been good for driving pleasure either.
manufacturer could afford to make such an investment; hence all the bad-mouthing by various auto executives.
Even more important is that MAJORITY of all BMW sport sedans are equipped with slushboxes. Last time I was at a BMW dealership and specifically requested for a 330i/6MT. The sales guy looked around and could not find one. Apologetically, sheepishly, he steered me to a 330i loaded with everything, SP, PP, Nav, Sat radio, iDrive. Well I did drive it, and it drove real nice. Very tight steering, very much controlled, the ride was firm but very tolerable. The exhaust note intoxicating, and the speed quite exhilirating for a 255hp I6. Very very nice car. But the style left a lot to be desired... and the spartan interior, even more so. Not that Howard even notice anything about his car ... He just drives the darn car !
Which supports my theory: German car fans simply drive from point A to point B.
Ohhh yeah!!
When the anti-Lexus crowd started to bad mouth the new LS460 I knew they were scared. The Bangled 7 flopped big (redo after only 2 yrs), no one cares much about the A8 here in NA (pitiful for such a nice looking car), Jag is in free fall (perception trumping reality), and only the S-class is left to compete against Lexus. In comparing against the S-class, we will leave out the S450 cos Lexus has shown they are going after the 550 with the 380/370 combo powerplant in the LS460.
MB/AMG, with all their prowress in engine refinement and tuning, could only muster 382HP out of a 5.5L powerplant. Lexus did that with a 4.6L motor. Advantage Lexus.
The new S550 has a 1500-song capacity disk. The new LS460 has 4,000-capacity song. Advantage Lexus
The new S550 tops out at 7000rpm, the new LS460 tops out at 8000rpm. Advantage Lexus.
The new S550 has a 7-speed cog, the new LS460 has an 8-speed. Advantage Lexus
Auto park in the LS460. None on the S550. Advantage Lexus
Get the point.... And this is before release. Lexus is deliberately withholding info until March, a month before the S goes on sale, so that MB cannot scoop them, and so they can take the thunder out of the S release. What a juggernaut Lexus is going to be against the Germans.
And 12 months later, MY2008, comes the LS600h with like 470hp/500Ibft, and a fuel economy of a V6. LWB, hybrid, AWD, the features list will be long indeed... Priced in the $90K range. What a car that will be...
Little wonder German car fans are so upset and frantic in their search for dissing the LS460. The car is a beauty, and is primed for success. I am sold... I will put my $$$ where my mouth is.
Exactly. Slushboxes and midsize family sedans are not exactly the stuff for purists . . . yet they are eminently practical for everyday living, just like automatic parallel parking for city dwellers.
For the wannabe purists, what do you guys think of the auto-adjusting power seat side-bolsters on the CLS?? The ones that move in on you when you turn the car. That's got to be one of weirdest electronic gimmicks in recent years. Given the (lack of) reliability of powered seat sections in those cars (and seats only get adjusted infrequently unlike the high frequency of cars taking tight turns). . . it's disconcerting the first time it moves in on you . . . wouldn't it be even more scary when it suddenly fails on the occasion you count on it to move in and bolster you but no movement happens?
oac, are you trying to start a fire? For goodness sakes, you are basically saying that German car fans should drive nothing more than an original VW Beetle!
Personally, I would be much better described as a Eurocar fan who also will quietly confess (dare I say it) to liking some of the rice-burners.
You've placed a deposit and are on a list? OK, if so, which wheelbase? If it were me, it would be the long wheelbase, no doubt about it.
Hehehe, I cannot stop giggling on this quote, Howard. Its a classic.... You don't really need a phone in the car, but will use a BMW nanny, eh ? I can just see Dewey now, gnashing his teeth at the BMW Assist *nanny* ... :P :P Classic.
Not yet. My plan is to buy one either by Dec '06 or wait into the new year '07 when the frenzy slows... At least I hope the frenzy slows within 6 months of release. And my choice will be the LS460 SWB w/Nav/BT/ML/Auto Park, and a few more goodies. I am looking for what $65K gets me ($10K more than an '06 of similar features). The LWB loaded may be in the mid-70K range or higher. It'll remain cheaper than the S550, which should bode well for buyers and for Lexus. And bad news for MB if you can get a loaded LS460 LWB for about the price of an S450...
The issue wasn't sales. Why is that everything reverts back to sales? The point was that you and other Lexusfans have constantly harped about MB/BMW/Audi making all of their cars look alike, yet when Lexus makes their cars look like a Toyota it is glossed over the same old tired "but it sells" angle. The denial about the LS460 and Camry is quite interesting. Anyone that isn't looking through Lexus-colored glasses can see the similarities. Now I supposed since the LS,IS and GS all look alike, but done in different sizes, the MB/Audi/BMW/Jaguar way of doing things (as they have for years and years) is ok now right?
Like I have said years ago, you dislike for Mercedes and all the hype you continually try to push about them will have any affect on Mercedes either. You're asking me how far would I go to discredit Toyota/Lexus? This from the same poster that continually will hype anything negative about Mercedes into some great big tragedy. Ask youself that very same quesiton. Going to such lengths as to post bogus stories about technology failing (when it didn't) and preaching gloom and doom every Jan/Feb when sales for MB and others (including Lexus) drop, is to me a person that will go to great lengths to not only discredit MB, but themselves also.
Why is the LS430 priced cheaper than the S430/S500 ? Could it bcos the LS is produced more efficiently hence at a cost that still permits a large profit margin ? And the converse is true for the S-class !!! Do you, Merc1, know which car has a higher profit margin - the cheaper LS or the more expensive S-class ? If you can answer that, you would have solved the riddle of the pricing difference....
Why is that everytime this comes up we have to go back to why the LS430 costs less? I don't have an issue with why or disagree with you about why it costs less. Toyota runs a more streamlined/efficient production process, yes we all know this. I have admitted this time and time ago. However the public doesn't care squat about that when they go to buy a car, and you're dreaming if think a price difference like that between the LS430 and its MB/BMW competition doesn't make a difference to some buyers some of the time.
Finally, I read the Feb '06 MT comparo for the 330i, C350, and IS350. Ranking was 330, IS350, C350. MB was last of 3. But more importantly, the IS350 as-tested price was $2K HIGHER than the 330i, and $5K HIGHER than the C350. Is Lexus a cheaper alternative to the Germans ???
Who said that Lexus is always the cheaper priced alternative? Again, reaching. The IS is a brand new model (and a neat little car too btw) and Lexus apparently feels like they don't have to undercut that particular segment on price anymore.
M
The fact that Lexus could make all three of their cars LS/GS/IS look more or less alike proves that this is possible regardless of length.
Did any of us try to trash the S-class the way he is trying to trash the LS460. We said simply it's a falloff in design from the current car due to needless and senseless wheel arches. Something he probably agrees with. Take away those silly arches and the bangled trunk and the silhoueete of that car is still beautiful.
Oh yes! It looks "pregnant", "they won't sell any", "they better lower the price by 20K" and on and on. The car took jeers from this board and on the 2007 LS board for sure. Yes, for the record I don't like the rear-wheel arches, I'll give you that. BTW, the "trunk" is from the Maybach, not Mr. Bangle's design shop.
M
Actually I don't have a problem with the 2007 LS overall. Sure it looks a little unbalanced in LS460 "L" size, but overall the car is a huge improvement over the previous barn on wheels. The problem with the Lexusfans is that they're not able to stay true to anything. One minute it is a big sin for MB and others to give their cars the same look, yet when Lexus does it you get the "sales" angle. Then you have the "a luxury car should look unique" theory that was passed around when the S-Class broke cover, yet they can't admit the LS460 has a lot similarity to the new Camry. Before when the SC430 and Solara comparo came up they got all quiet and couldn't say anything because the pics were so obvious, but now they're just dismissing the notion of the LS looking like a Camry. It seems to me that if I can admit that the S-Class' wheelarches are from numerous cars they should be able to admit the truth about the LS460. They can't because this is their most important car.
M
Not sure, maybe because they're so similar in concept. Not buying one is certainly your right. I didn't think you'd consider anything from Mercedes?
M
I didn't know Mercedes had "Steer by Wire"! Thats news to me. Which model would that be?
M
For the time being yeah, you're right advantage Lexus.
The new S550 has a 1500-song capacity disk. The new LS460 has 4,000-capacity song. Advantage Lexus
Whooptie do, guess that is a deal breaker. Pluhlease.
The new S550 tops out at 7000rpm, the new LS460 tops out at 8000rpm. Advantage Lexus.
Now if you can tell me what that advantage is I'll be truly impressed. You want a luxury car engine to rev to 8000 rpm? Please give us the technical details as to why this is an "advantage".
The new S550 has a 7-speed cog, the new LS460 has an 8-speed. Advantage Lexus
Yes, this is correct if the projected MPG numbers hold up in the real world. The problem I have here OAC is that when Mercedes upped the class with a 7-Speed all the Lexusfans did was say it was a meaningless innovation and was no advancement at all, yet the 7-speed has proven itself over and over, just like I'm sure Lexus' 8-speed will do.
Auto park in the LS460. None on the S550. Advantage Lexus
Advantage to who? Those who can't park a car? For people who love this type of thing I guess this will be a deal maker right?
Get the point.... And this is before release. Lexus is deliberately withholding info until March, a month before the S goes on sale, so that MB cannot scoop them, and so they can take the thunder out of the S release. What a juggernaut Lexus is going to be against the Germans.
Wrong, wrong and wrong. The S-Class goes on sale in Feb here in the U.S and has been on sale since Sept in Europe. If anyone waited to see what the other was going to do it was Lexus. They've had 5-6 months to study the S-Class and up it in areas like that hard drive and what not. Lexus is the one that waits to see what Mercedes is going to do. Not even you can deny that.
And 12 months later, MY2008, comes the LS600h with like 470hp/500Ibft, and a fuel economy of a V6. LWB, hybrid, AWD, the features list will be long indeed... Priced in the $90K range. What a car that will be...
All speculation unless you have the info on this?
M
"...Now I supposed since the LS,IS and GS all look alike, but done in different sizes...
Let's put these to test here:
IS350
GS300
LS460
Must be hard to differentiate these cars from each other, eh ? Well, what about the MB C/E/S ???? Wanna see how they look, compared to the Lexus family look ???
My point here is that the new LS is likely to succeed, but don't take so much for granted. The styling is very nice, but is it drop-dead gorgeous, and does it have staying power? Or will the similar and familiar Lexus look start to get boring over time?
As far as the S-Class goes, I have said from the beginning that the wheel well arches do not bother me, and, in fact, are looking better and better with time. They are going to be a distinctive look that may very well set a new styling trend in the industry. Lexus fans . . . do not be so over-confident. I agree the LS is poised for success, but I do NOT agree it will cause the undoing of the S-Class in ANY way. This new S-Class is going to be a hit, and I am on record as saying such.
You all know that I have expressed that I believe that Lexus has BMW in its crosshairs. I'm more concerned that the impact to the market made by the LS will be felt more by BMW this time around.
TagMan
E-class
SLK
C-class
S-class
Leaves no doubt, does it ?
TagMan
Lexus does the same thing as MB, BMW, Audi and Jaguar. After all the talk and put downs about the S looking like a C and a X-Type looking like alike, looking at the LS and IS puts an end to that nonsense.
BTW, I'm still waiting on what the "advantage" is for Lexus having a V8 that can rev to 8000 rpm? Due tell!
M
My problem is that Lexus didn't have to try and make their flagship car LOOK like the competiton all these years up until now. That is truthfully my only issue. Car companys do take ideas and technology from each other all the time that is nothing new, but they don't have to make their cars look like the competition too. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Bentley, Cadillac, Infiniti, and now Lexus have their own styling identies for the most part and that is great IMO. It is about time Lexus quit making their flagship car (their greatest car) in the mold of its greatest competitor with regards to styling - not technology.
I honestly don't know why Lexus doesn't play up their Japanese heritage more often. A European car company would never do a brochure for one of their cas like Lexus did for the IS. Things like that cheapen the brand in the eyes of people that care about such things.
When not in defense mode I can freely admit I'm just as intrigued as any Lexus fan at the thought of 380hp and 8 foward gears! Mercedes did the same thing back in 1989 with the world's first 5-speed automatic and again in 2003 with the first 7-speed automatic - leapfrogging via innovation and technology is the name of the game in the luxury car business. This practice has nothing to do with styling, again which was my only big issue with Lexus.
Even when Germancarfans (or at least I do) admit the obvious Lexusfans can't admit the obvious like; Lexus changing their styling to a singular theme across their lineup - it makes the debates pointless and endless.
M
There are two obvious reasons why Lexus does not play up its Japanese heritage:
(1) Lexus is a brand with only a decade and half of history; they are trying to sell a Lexus not a Toyota.
(2) IS is being marketted in Japan this time. In the land of parkers not drivers (one statistic says that if all Japanese car owners tried to drive at the same time, there would not be enough road space for them all!), European cars are extremely popular . . . plus the previous generation IS was a stripped down hopped up Toyota for the youth in their home market. Not exactly a bragging point.
One point well take: while Lexus has the first 8sp automatic, MB had the first 5sp and 7sp . . . GM had the very first automatic, period; and for a long time was the only one who knew how to build a good automatic . . . hence the Cadillac domination of the free world HELM during the first three decades after WWII.
M
It would be way more than a stretch to say that Audi/BMW/MB got anything from Lexus in the way of styling. Audi in particular went aero in the 80's and changed car design long before Lexus even came to market. Either way none of them ever looked liked a Lexus then or now.
M
BMW has done a fabulous job in making sure people like me don't need it.
Its quality at this point going forward (not looking backward as CR does) is right up there with the best.
I like the GS the least (but it is acceptable), I like the IS the most, and the LS is great because it is a quantum leap from where it was, and it's competition has fallen off the table.
If anything, Mercedes is now cultivating a image of plagirism, with the S-Class taking on wheel humps, the Maybachs' rear end, the Accord's headlights, and the 7's dash.
And the ML has obviously learned quite a bit from the original RX300.
All I have to say about the Camry is it has many cues from the Corolla/Yaris/Avalon. It is not my cup of tea.
When the '92 Camry came out, yeah, that was obviously a descendant of the LS.
Those days are over. If you can find anything in the Camry exterior that says 2007 LS, good luck!
The Camry interior does shares a similar overall theme, though.
DrFill
But let's say you're right (for the sake of arguement, and I'd still like to hear an unbiased opinion for instance from designman), and the Camry is a clone. What makes it ok for the S to copy the Maybach butt, but not ok for the Camry to copy the LS butt?
I guess it is acceptable when a German company does it, but not acceptable when a Japanese company does it?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/automobiles/autospecial/lexus-LS460.html
This is on the Imperial which apparently is no certainty for production. IMO - it would be a hit but probably at the expense of the 300. Definitely a poor mans replica of a Rolls if it makes it to the showroom.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/automobiles/autospecial/chrysler-imperial.html- - - - - -
Audi seems to even have the press confused with the A6/S6 names.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/automobiles/audi-a6.html
Lastly - Audi roadjet. Lot better looking than the Benz R but that grille has goota to be tuned down. The perfect description line of the grille of all Audis is in the article. Still hoping Lexus builds that HPX. It was the most beautiful design of all these cars.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/automobiles/autospecial/audi-roadjet.html
It wouldn't surprise me - stranger things have happened!
"Individual DVD monitors for rear-seat passengers"
source:
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/
well, will it have one headline monitor or individual monitors for each passagner as in the case of a first class airline?? thats wierd becoz Mr. Press said the same in the video "indiviual DVD systems"
this means it may have 2 dvds?? anyone think so?
Lexus Era
Lexusi
Driving pleasure at the expense of safety?
Did I ever say that in any post?
Are you suggesting that dumbed down technology as Park-Assist is a safety technology?
I did not know airbags or PCS reduces driving pleasure? Maybe you can explain that idea to me?
Driving safety starts with the driver and when a driver becomes too dependent on a gizmo then safety will really become an issue.
"Lexus introduced the LS460 here, a replacement for its flagship LS430 now in showrooms. All I have to say is...what could they possibly have left out"
this one is funny, just wow Japanese, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
"ON top of all that, Toyota chief Jim Press tells me that all the wood in each car was sourced from the same tree to achieve perfect consistency"
"And...the opening of the cup-holder and ash tray were calibrated to emerge from their console pods at exactly the same speed"
Source:
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/
Lexus Era
Lexusi
It appears that is precisely what oac is saying.
Germans are the last to know whats good for the envirnoment, dont play that role, it doesnt fit u !
Lexusi
Was that option not available on the old VW Beetle?
Purists do not wear straight jackets with delusions of driving in a race track while sitting in their padded cell.