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Comments
esf,
I agree with you. I'd also rather have the Range Rover any day.
The LX470 and the Range Rover are in entirely different leagues. The LX470, which is obviously a Land Cruiser, is indeed a credible SUV, although too old, IMO... but to compare it to a Range Rover, well... that's absurd, IMO.
TagMan
That doesn't make any sense at all because as we know "rea-life typical retail price" and "MSRP" are two usually completely different numbers. There is no "real life" in "MSRP." If you want to stick with MSRP, forget about "real life."
LOL... Whatever.
Rather than get into semantics, let's just accept Edmunds' criteria and try to not over-analyze it. The MSRP plus "real-life" typical add-ons is the point.
TagMan
Fine with me. If that is your criteria then we can also include the Cadillac Escalade ESV at MSRP of $59,000.+, the GS 450h at MSRP of $54,000.+, and even the QX56 at $54,000.+. These all have MSRPs as much or more than where the GL starts,and with your typical add ons they would certainly be over $60,000. So the more the merrier.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Your point is well-taken, but perhaps just to create an argument... I can not be sure. I do not know first hand, without checking further, whether or not those other brands are as notorious with the add-ons as Mercedes is. So, I can't answer definitively whether or not their inclusion would be appropriate.
I do know that the GL is close enough for me, considering the way the MSRP plus add-ons will so easily put it in the $60's and $70's, and that it represents the top-tiered SUV.
That's my opinion on this. Try others and see what they think. Either way, unless the host says it is forbidden, I will like to continue to discuss it from time to time, as we have been doing all along without any problems.
TagMan
Was kinda hoping this would be Artie Lange's next vehicle....
DrFill
TagMan
Audi has recorded a triple success in the “auto motor und sport” readers’ poll: readers of the popular car magazine voted the A3, A6 and Audi Q7 into first place in their respective classes, crowning them with “Best Cars” titles for 2007. This continues Audi’s history of success in one of the most important readers’ polls in the automotive industry.
This was the first time that the Audi Q7 has taken part in the poll, and despite fierce competition it was awarded the most votes. It represents a new standard in the SUV segment. The Audi brand’s first SUV stands out thanks to its outstanding on-road performance, good off-road characteristics, expressive design and the quality characteristic of Audi. And it is not just readers of auto motor und sport who hold these properties in high esteem; the Q7 has also enjoyed great success with customers.
The winner in the executive class, the Audi A6, has been the market leader in its segment in Germany for two years now. The elegant and sporty A6 is available as both a saloon and an Avant. In 2006, Audi added the sporty S6 and the A6 allroad quattro to this successful model line.
The Audi A3 was voted top of the compact class for the third time. Audi demonstrates with the A3 how it is possible to perfectly unite premium standards with compact dimensions in a smaller vehicle class. The A3 is available in three-door and Sportback versions, and also in the shape of the S3.
Congratulations to Audi!
TagMan
Disappointed with the X5. Won't settle for the M_X.
The only HELC listed above that lights my fire is the A8.
As far as BMW goes, I'm eagerly anticipating the arrival of the 2008 535i with inline 6 boosted by twin turbos to 300hp available this summer. Should be a lot of fun! But not as much fun as the junior version!
And of course, there will be the BMW diesels.
Very much looking forward to my next choice: BMW or Audi.
Most likely will give back the 545. After all, who wants to buy a car from someone who only changed the oil after 14,000 miles? DUH!! :surprise:
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
If it were me...
I would pick a 528i/535i over an A6 3.2, but would buy an A6 4.2 S-Line over a 550i.
I would choose the A4 2.0T S-Line over the 328i, but 335i over the A4 3.2.
A8 is better than the 7 Series in all variants.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
I'd take an A6 3.2 over a 528i, just not the 535i.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
I think I'm clear about your next vehicle. Those new diesels might show up in time for consideration. And since BMW announced that their sweet 300 hp twin-turbo will be available in the 5-series, there's some more temptation for you. One thing for sure, IMO... I'm betting it's going to be a BMW again.
Most likely will give back the 545. After all, who wants to buy a car from someone who only changed the oil after 14,000 miles?
Yeah, you are so careless and negligent with your 545... Good thing you are leasing... It's obvious that everything in that car will fall apart, and you'll have no choice but to give it up.
I'd even bet the floor boards and back seats are just a mess... littered with old used up Starbucks coffee cups!
TagMan
If I stay with BMW, I bypass the 7, since I get better performance and just about the same "luxury" in the 545.
I would be interested in the new twin turbo 535 and any BMW diesels that come to market in the USA within the next 18 months.
I am not considering any other vehicles.
My 545 lease ends August 1, 2008.
Nah! It's only my wife and myself in the vehicle. Although she does like to eat in the car. Crumbs on her seat and floor.
My wife is a multi-tasker: she can eat and harass me at the same time!
I never eat and drink in the car. Thus, I couldn't care less about BMW's ridiculous cup holders.
I am always amused at folks who concentrate so much on the BMW cup holders. Aren't they missing the point? :confuse:
I also like the Range Rover and its rectangular matrix arrangement of the controls plus the angular posture of the dash with its forward rake. It's pragmatic. Everything works together without one single element trying to upstage the other.
Merc, I need an answer from you on this one, sir. Help me come to terms with it. ;-)
Was it 11? For some reason I thought it was 8. I don't know, I just think Veyron is at a point with it's specs that will not be exceeded. It's gotta end somewhere. Will be interesting to watch. I find those auctions entertaining even though garage queens are not my thing.
Really? I kind of like the look. When I sat in one recently, I never once got a bargain basement impression. It was all black with a dark wood, and it looked very elegant and upscale... traditional and classic in appearance as compared to, say, ultra-modern or contemporary. I saw nothing cheap about the quality of the knobs and switches, either, just that more traditional style, that's all... appropriate, IMO, for a car like this.
Here's two interior pics of the Bentley Continental GT... neither one is like the one I saw, which I liked better than these, but these do give the overall idea:
By contrast, look at the sleek, contemporary look of the CL... very nice and appropriate for such a sleek coupe.
IMO, both interiors fit their respective cars. Would love to own either one, which ain't gonna happen.
TagMan
Hmm, that's just not accurate.
...and some of its buttons are so bad even Lexus wouldn't use them. It looks bargain basement compared to the CL.
Well I think you're focusing on materials again. I'm considering the form and only the form. I have no problem criticizing material quality but it's kind of like criticizing a sand sculpture because it wasn't made out of marble. To me, most of the the art is in the sculpture.
One more analogy for the CL centerstack... it has the bearing of a window air conditioner. At least the latter has pure functional value. I struggle to find aesthetic value in vents, yet they chose to make them the focal point, framing that small analog clock in a most curious, unbalanced manner.
There may only be 8 left now.
Saleen is near completing an S7R that supposedly is going to trounce the Veyron's numbers. But Bugatti is working on a 272MPH Veyron. Fifteen years from now, someone will have released a 300MPH street car! :surprise: That's Top Fuel dragster territory, albeit not nearly attaining that speed as quickly!
I'm with ya on the garage queens, though. I have much more respect for the guys that DRIVE their classics. Jay Leno is my hero!
Raising Arizona was one of his best works. A hilarious movie, IMO.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TagMan
Overall, IMO, the vents are not a deal killer and the interior is still sleek and contemporary... and, fortunately, the interior goes with a truly beautiful car!
TagMan
of consecutive sales increases, Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today reported
sales of 17,069 new vehicles for January 2007, up 36.9 percent from last
January making this the best January sales in the company's history.
In 2006, Mercedes-Benz significantly enhanced its competitive presence
in the luxury light truck market with the launch of the full-sized luxury
SUV: the GL-Class, which sold 1,815 units in January. The popularity of the
M-Class model line continued to build with a 19.8 percent increase compared
to last January (2,351 vs. 1,962). As a group, sales for Mercedes-Benz
vehicles in the luxury light truck segment continue to gain momentum with
an 82.8 percent increase over January 2006.
Other highlights for MBUSA sales in January include a 24 percent
increase in its portfolio of passenger cars (12,058 vs. 9,728). Volume for
the month was led by the C-Class with 3,928 units sold, a 26.8 percent
increase over last January's 3,098 units. Sales for the E-Class family of
sedans and wagons, including those with the new clean diesel technology
called BlueTec, grew by 36.9 percent with 3,375 models sold.
As a group, model lines at the high-end of the Mercedes-Benz portfolio
-- S-, SL-, and CL-Classes -- rose 78.1 percent (2,705 vs. 1,519 units) in
January. Contributing to this was the popularity of the top-of-the-line CL
coupe which was introduced in December (up 279.4 percent) and the continued
demand for the ninth generation S-Class (up 125.1 percent).
Here's the actual press release which has further info and model beakdowns:
link title
Congratulations to Mercedes Benz!!
So, where is the "doom" for Mercedes that we heard some speak of?
TagMan
link title
TagMan
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=119408?tid=edmund- - - - - s.il.home.photopanel..1.*
Sounded like someone was mighty impressed.
They all but said "This car is bad-[non-permissible content removed]!". I think I know where to file my C&D subscription.
DrFill
That was like 15 years ago. Is this guy the new John Travolta?
DrFill
I think Louie buying a car company is of more interest.
What do you think of the LS460 interior? I think it's a mess of buttons and plastic. Lexus should've done more to differentiate its interior from lesser sedans. Get a navi in an IS and you just have a minimized version.
On the other hand, A8, S-Class and 7 Series all look much better than their less-expensive cousins on the inside.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
What's the big deal?
TagMan
"I didn't think I had an issue -- but I was willing to do anything to save my job. ... I've realized that I suffer from the disease of alcoholism and addiction,"
Now, She's itching to return to her Miss USA duties.
Alcohol, though, was her biggest vice.
"I'm an alcoholic.
"Cocaine was one of the drugs that I did use," she says.
Her mother, Brenda Johnson, tells the magazine that Conner once showed up to school drunk when she was 14.
Oops! Those are not offical Miss USA "activies".
Now, She's itching to return to her Miss USA duties.
"I just can't wait to get back to work -- 'I'm Miss USA, my name is Tara Conner, and I'm happy to meet you,' you know? Life is good."
"And in conclusion, all I can say is I'm Miss USA, and you're not! And I might've done anything so that Donald, I mean "Big Daddy", would let me keep my job...":P
That last part might not be a direct quote....put that last one on my tab....
DrFill
Faster than the S550 and 750i.
Beautifully damped ride motions.
Feels sportier at higher speeds.
Better slalom, SWB and LWB, than 750i.
Suitably rich interior.
Expect just as much performance as coddling.
Might get better braking with Touring Pkg.
Get the Parking Assist! Worth the $700.
Same old stuff indeed! Sweet!
I love the taste of "Vindication Pie". Delicious! I'd offer you some, but....uh....no! You can't get none!
I'd rather ramble, than stumble, my friend. :P
DrFill
Quicker to 60 than the S550 is an objective and legitimate feather in the LS cap, if it is true by the final concensus of reviews. I would give you that without any spin.
The rest is subjective material.
The brakes, well they are objective material, and they ain't no good.
TagMan
Solution: Make it as slow as the Mercedes, then you wouldn't need so much braking force.
And bring the handling down to BMW-levels, while you're at it (just don't get the Touring Pkg. if you want to do either).
We wouldn't want it to do everything better. That would be overkill.
DrFill
$59k is allowed in for the simple reason that mfrs and retailers love those $99.99 price points. Base MSRP at $53k and $55k however are a far cry from $60k. What you consider "real-life typical add-ons" may not be either real-life or typical for others. That's why Edmunds made it explicitly clear that just because a car can be optioned up to over $60k, it does not belong to HELC if the base MSRP is substantially below $60k.
GL's claim to top SUV offering is also iffy. It shares platform with M and R. MB's top offering used to be the "G Wagon" It's stopped for this year, so M/R/GL platform triplets is the only MB SUV here. If Lexus paused the LX for a year, are we to automaticly include GX in HELC? Likewise if LS/S/7 skipped a model year, should GS/E/5 come in?
That would be an LS460L with Touring Pkg.
I agree with you.
DrFill
And that's perfectly okay! Your point of view is needed here. I will always defend your right to say whatever it is you are attempting to say.
Fair and balanced. :shades:
What per centage of that 17,069 "sales" booked in January were actual sales? How many of them will have to come back in 24-36 months on MB's dough? When a vendor embarks on a campaign of vendor financing, it will have to constantly increase sales volume. It's a treadmill that he can not afford to get off.
Let's not forget that the goal of a successful business is to have repeat customers, not necessarily happy or even satisfied customers. Razors and razor blades, construction equipment and replacement parts, and the illegal drug business are all good examples of the benefits that accrue to the business when the customer is forced to return time and time again. Incidentally, the lack of repeat sales is in a nutshell is why airlines are broke and consumer electronics chains come and go.
Solution: Make it as slow as the Mercedes, then you wouldn't need so much braking force.
C,mon Doc. You're throwing out sarcasm when you have no need. You've got yourself an overall decent review, with respectable 0-60 times, but pitiful braking. OK... it is what it is.
Now, all of a sudden the Mercedes is slow?
The solution is better brakes for the LS, it's that simple.
TagMan