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I've mentioned before my girlfriend's terrible experiences at two different VW dealers back when she owned a Passat. So I agree with you, regardless of how good the car I can't see too many people spending that kind of money only to have a poor ownership experience.
Dealership experience is surely a factor, but isn't brand image or badging just as or even more important? How many $70k-range buyers want to show off a VW badge?
MB launched a new brand to address the $300k market. Toyota in 1990 launched a new brand, and Nissan did too. Wouldn't the LS and Q have sold much less well had they been badged as Toyota and Nissan cars?
I remember when the Mazda Millenia came out, originally the plan had been to launch a new upscale brand, but in the end Mazda had to scrap that plan because they couldn't afford it. Sure didn't help sales of the Millenia.
I cannot imagine the absolute bath the (few) owners of Phaeton's will take at trade in time. Good luck, VW!
nvbanker "Lexus VP of Marketing says, "emulate BMW"" Nov 17, 2003 7:38pm
Good question since 40K is about 5K or so above what I can really spend next time around. I'm not sure. Right now the choices would be a C320 Sport (05' model w/changes), A4 3.0, G35 Coupe, Acura TL, and Saab 9/3 Aero (shocked?)....pretty much in that order.
Why these? Well being a big Mercedes-Benz fan I have to consider whatever Mercedes has in the class. Right now the C-Class is in desperate need of a interior facelift. If I had to buy a car right this minute it would NOT be a new C-Class. I can't stand the seats, having to purchase the Comand system to get a in-dash CD, and the overall interior look. I spoke to a couple of MB reps at the Detroit autoshow this past year and they said that these things would be corrected on the 2005 model, and sure enough its been all but confirmed. Question for me is whether or not the freshened car gets here in the spring or next fall.
The only issue I have with the A4 is the ugly, unpainted lower section Audi has forced on the A4 Sedan, curiously enough the A4 Cabriolet is painted all the way down. I don't know if you've noticed the A4 on the road, but this shade of grey that all their lowers are painted in doesn't match anything. Yuck. There was a strong rumor for 2004 that this would be corrected, a very, very close inspection of my Audi dealers entire lot of A4s (20 or so) says that they haven't corrected this most unsightly detail.
What can I say about the G35 Coupe? Driving it almost makes you forget the cheap interior and that rather thickish looking rear bumper. A strong contender for my money.
The Acura TL is a little contrived, inside and out. It seems they've over compensated for years of bland looking, forgettable cars, by trying to give the new TL too many design cues from other cars. That "character" line down the side is most out of place. The interior, which knocks the G35 on it's behind as far as quality of materials/assembly goes, is too busy with aluminum and fake wood all competing for attention. They missed the Audi target by a good mile. You should check out the stereo though, its a first...a DVD based system. Even a Mark Levinson devotee might be impressed.
The Saab would be just different purchase, it too like the G35 was a real hoot to drive. Don't know if I want another turbo I4 though, and the interior takes some getting used too, you know Swedish design/ergonomics.
Another shocker: I don't want a BMW!
lenscap,
No brochures or anything, just the handing out of cards with the "Phaeton Specialist's" name on it. No luxury car sales tact at all.
M
On the serious side I think the TL and G35 would be great cars for you despite the Japanese origin. They are fresh. The C-class is tired looking and it's too small in size to fit the grill and tail lights that were really designed for and work beautifully on the S-class. I really thought Lexus would get the first DVD audio player into a car. Hats off to Acura for it. I know a few people who had Saabs and they regretted it so be careful there.
What is the problem with BMW? I thought you loved them.
Also - why not a three year old off-lease car. Most 3 year old lux cars are better than anything new.
the lexus 430 new model is a good copy of the mb. it does have nice wood and soft leather and a nicer nav with touch screen, but the back seat is not the same and nor is the image. the name is totally different.
the vw would sell if it was priced right, at about 20k less than the a8, but its not and so it will not be a big seller, i dont think they expected it to be as they make their new factory.
Something about BMW's new choice of direction in styling has turned me off to the whole brand. That combined with not wanting a new 3-Series (the last good looking one left) have ruled BMW out for me. It used to be Mercedes, BMW and Audi in my book. Now it's Mercedes, Audi, with BMW a distant third. Can't explain it, just don't want one now.
Though we disagree on some things your advice is always appreciated. Wouldn't you know it the only used Euro cars I would want are either too expensive (CLK430) or are a little too troublesome for even me to buy....would love a 2001, or 2002 Audi A6 4.2. Still debating that one.
M
Makes me think other German upscale companies also face market pressure and cut corners.
Contrast all that with Japanese that are shoved onto subway cars and work till they drop. Europe is lax, America is efficient and a bit crazy and the Japanese are totally gone. There is more to life than work.
In this country, we may see Lexus and Infiniti as coming close to MB & BMW, and superior to them in some ways. But I doubt if people in Japan will feel that way, even when they get a chance to drive Lexus and Infiniti in the future.
M
Couldn't agree with you more about the A6 4.2 I looked at a used 2003 with 14k miles, black on black with aftermarket 18 inch wheels. It was spectacular! Not the room of my 7, but plenty for 4. Unfortunately, Audi's reputation for big mechanical issues puts me off. Also, for some reason this car was not a certified car, despite being at an Audi dealer. Just the remainder of 4yr/50k miles under warranty. I will say however that a quick drive and those flared fenders have really got me thinking...
M
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000203773.cfm
M
I wouldn't even care if so many people didn't take them seriously. You'd be amazed how many people actually believe their "scoop" stories.
M
Did I read you correctly that despite your hots for a fat fendered A6 if it WAS Audi Certified you would avoid it? So, that leaves you turning to Ebay and cars.com?
No I meant I would buy an A6 4.2 only if was certified.
M
Plus you know how I feel about SUVs, they usually don't hold my attention more than one model year. I loved the X5 when I first saw it at the Chicago autoshow, couldn't care any less about it now. SUVs just aren't my game. Now a Porsche 911 C4S Cabrio, you'd have to put out a A.P.B. to find it after a letting it go on a test drive with me!!!!
So let me guess, a 04' LS, and a 04 GX right??
M
For me - the LS is a certainty. The car is better than ever - tighter than the 2001 base suspension but rides even more silky smooth. The 2004 Euro is also a better handler than the 2001 version. I want to get the Euro though and that is not easy to come by. Lexus is pushing the modern lux package (with or without Euro which is now actually called Sport) or the ultra and doing away with the custom lux per my dealer. If I miss the sport I'll likely go to the ultra lux but that is not till April anyway.
I still prefer the LX470 over the GX470 - simply for size and I prefer the LX styling though the GX does ride better. The LX puts the bumps away better but on a highway the GX is the creamier ride. But when you are married you have to make compromises and my wife loves the GX. The alternativve is that I can get the LX but have to get her an RX. No dice on that one. I have my eyes on the SL based on my personal business developments in a year or so - as the toy car - not an RX330.
Now about that Boxster. If I'm a single guy like you and don't have to drive every day that's the car I'd save for. Yes its noisy and not the best riding but it is pure sports car, lots of fun and brings me back to my single days. Cars like the SL and SC don't do that. They are too mature/grown-up. But the Boxster has to be a weekend/leisure car. I wouldn't want it in a rush hour rain or snowstorm.
Also said Custom Luxury is Very hard to come by...It is the model that suites my needs if I am to upgrade.
If you were to buy a SL500 I don't know what I'd do!! Did you ever check out the CL? The CL is Mercedes' best all around car in my opinion. Timeless style and just the right amount of space for two.
Strangely, for some reason I've never like the Boxster. I'm ready for a luxury car, no more pounding, stiff-riding cars for me, at least for a while. Entry-level or a pre-driven mid-level luxury car, is where I'm headed. Either that or a classic "GT" car like the G35 Coupe.
In other news, the uber-Audi has arrived:
http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cfm/NewsID/2031125.001/audi/1.h- tml
M
That big chrome gaping surround gives the new Audi a very familiar look - like a new Kia Amanti.
The deal on the Cayenne is pretty standard around here from what I was made to understand. I've only seen one or two on the road. It's just not selling well here as there were plenty of them on the lot and more due in. Contrast that with trying to find a GX470 which is not easy. On the other hand the LX is negotiable. I had my pick of color on the Cayenne. I went to the dealership mainly because my son is nuts about the Boxster and I must admit that car intrigues me as well. There are several that I see at local sports events.
I ordered at the beginning of this month and it should arrive at the end of Jan to mid Feb.
Didn't know there was a suspension part issue.
What about the quivering body structure?
The Type D that competed against MB circa 1935 - 1939 or so has a distinctly triangular or arrowhead shaped grille.
But hey, in this forum, one man's triangle is another's square.
M
...lets see if Lexus RX400H gets SUV of the year next year.