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Comments
circa Ed Norton - The raised rent epsiode with "pins and needles"
VW execs need to adopt that quote before they are on the street with their cars. BTW - I like the Tourag - a well styled SUV.
Ditto re your posts - well done and fun to boot.
Also I'm not thrilled with the interior styling. It kind of has an ecclectic layered design. Mish mash could be a better term. But the front and rear lamps have a nice tech touch to them.
Lexus has slipped a bit as the RX330 (surprise here) and the GX were average, ES and GS above average and LS, LX, IS and SC were all well above average. Everything except LX (probably price as CR recommends the Landcruiser) and GS (ancient) recommended.
MB - everything well below average except C-class which was rated as just below average. SLK and SL did not have sufficient data to be scored. Nothing recommended.
Audi - A4 scores average and is recommended. A6 and TT below average and A8 lacks sufficient data.
Acura - all above average with MDX & RSX in well above average category. Everything except RL recommended because they haven't tested new RL yet and old one was too dated.
Infiniti - FX and G35 recommended and above average. Q45 rated average and M35/45 and GX56 are too new and lack data.
High performance usually excludes high reliability expectations, doesn't it?
Just throwing it out there for discussion, my personal take, given my post-bubble philosophy, and current Silicon Valley situation, is that cars better be reliable, because I can never be too sure about how long I might have to keep them. Incidentally, I was happy to see the '02 Saabs rank high in the reliability report. :-)
With the aggressive discounting, I would recommend for anyone looking for more room than the new A6 or RL [I, too was disappointed with RL space, looked about the same as the TL]
http://www.lexus.com/about/concept/lf-x.html
Finally saw the next GS in person and it looks much better than in pictures. It will sell very well in my opininion.
The GS is just a sleek and stunning looking car in person. In pix it looks like an update of the current car. But in the metal it looks like a brand new design a lot closer to the LFS than any picture has ever shown. I can't imagine this car not being an instant and big hit. Can't wait to see the next LS.
Ray Catena has knocked down the old dealership on Rt 9 and is now starting to build the new Lexus dealership next to David Michael. I had an interesting situation giving a close friend of mine some tax advice this weekend. This guy is in the process of selling land to Ray as he needs more land in Freehold to store his cars and this guy happens to have ideal space that is central to Edison (MB) and Ocean/Freehold (Lexus/Jaguar) as well as his Infiniti and other dealerships. I can't repeat the things I heard but I can tell you Ray's opinion of Lexus is as top-shelf as it gets. By the way every Lexus dealer is fighting like hell to get as many RX400H suvs as they can get. That thing is going to be white-hot.
Len, do you have any degree of insight to the HPX in 2007 ? Do you suppose the LS will come in 2006 or 2007 ? Any word on the LF-C that you've heard out there ? And finally, will they revise the engine specs for the 2006 GS upping the V8 to >300bhp ? Just some curious musings I have about my favorite auto brand...
You think the RX400h will be hot ? That is an understatement ! I tried to get on a waiting list for a Prius (to replace our Matrix), the list was 10-months backed-up.... Unbelievable.... Yeah, you can say hybrids will be hot, especially one from the king of hybrids - Toyota...
ps: everyone who has seen the GS in person has come to the same conclusions as you did. The loud mouths who bash this car haven't seen it live, nor would they even consider buying or driving a Lex anyway, so who cares about their opinion ?
I didn't like the GS in pix either but it's very different in person. Lenscap pointed that out many times and now I know exactly what he means.
I don't have anything really new on the LS. I may meet Catena personally because of this transaction and if I do I will certainly ask. My gut tells me the LS is a 2007 (though Consumers still says 2006) but enters the market in March/April 2006 rather than September. I think the powerful hybrids (V12 equivs)come after Sept. 2007 but a significantly more powerful V8 hybrid (say 400HP) hits before that, maybe from day one of the new LS. I also think the HPX is inevitable and probably hits in 2007. But from what the people at Catena told me they want it as part of the worldwide launching and they also didn't want to crowd the RX400H launching. That RX400H will be more than $50K by the way.
GS - I don't think you will see any more powerful gas engines from Lexus. Lexus/Toyota is completely going for power via the hybrids. That's why they never joined the HP wars. I think these hybrids will leave a lot of people in the dust real quickly - on the road and in sales. Did you see that the Accord hybrid makes 0-60 in 6.5 seconds? You'd have to be nuts to waste money on old technology C-class cars in the next few years against what's coming from Acura and Lexus given that stat, new, cleaner and better technology, increased performance and sky high reliability. I don't know how MB is going to hold up its price points. They better have something more than they've shown up their sleeves. Plus the Euro strength is a killer.
I am doing great actually. Wife is back to school doing an E-MBA. Means I'm doing double duty at home (kids and grandma to care for), and work which is hectic and triply demanding. I am barely hanging on sometimes, but I do get a few breaks in-between I saw a nice cruise trip on Carnival to the Bahamas, a 7-day trip, for like $1K (taking off from Tampa) and I'm tempted to just get on one and sail away !!!
Currently, wife wants me to replace her Sequoia with an LX470 so I am back shopping for one. Should be fun.... I've got only about $40K to spend, and that'll probably be for an MY2002 at best. My choice would be an '03 tho', but I'll see what I do get. Still waiting for that LS in 2006!!! Looks like the Lexus makeover will truly shake the industry - all over again.
I know some people at Lawrence LExus in Princeton, NJ and they are a little worried about the 2 new Lexus dealers coming-the one in Freehold and Difeo in Edison area.
Never have I seen quality this good. Everyone that sees it, raves over it and just can't believe what a beautiful car it is - and from VW!!! One is in my garage and I plan on keeping it. Goodbye Mercedes. You sold out to chrysler and it really shows. I hope the Phaeton continues because I'll trade for a new one in 4 or 5 years I hope..
Good for you..Can you tell us what you paid for you Phaeton and some of the features? Does it have radar Cruse, heated and cooled seats, GPS and what type (one disk or several # of points of interest) Engine and HP that kind of stuff...
Congratulations on your new car.
Seats are so comfortable. My wife is not a 'car person'. But even she is having a fit over it.
Phaeton lives on.
On the one hand, this sounds like a great deal. However, if VW has to give them away, the resale value is likely to drop like a rock as well. It would be interesting to see how much the Pheaton will really end up costing buyers if they end up giving them away after 3-4 years.
A high school friend of mine who is an orthopedic surgeon and a car nut jokes that he can't afford a Phaeton. His fun car is a $132k 911 Turbo Cabriolet and he is trading his 2001 E55 for 2005 S55 ($110k +/-). But, or so he claims, his two cars totaling $250k will depreciate less over 3-4 years than one $100k Pheaton. Probably not, but he does quite well driving very nice cars that hold their value well.
We happen to be SUV shopping and he advised me to reconsider buying a new Land Rover LR3 for the same reason. He bought a used low mileage 2002 Range Rover for his wife this spring for $33,000. At that price, the original owner took a $40k+ bath for 30 months and 30,000 miles. His prediction was that a 4 year old Phaeton will be a $40k car. A good value then, not now.
$40k.? that might be a little on the optimistic side .l.o.l... .. great vehicles, but VW missed that market by light years ..............
Terry.
todd2004 In case you haven't noticed, some people can afford to spend more than others. I'd like to know the one person who can buy stocks at the bottom and sell at the peak.
dcowan699 Congratulations! Sounds like the Phaeton has what you want and will offer you a most enjoyable experience. That's all that matters. And it's an absolutely handsome vehicle in my opinion. Enjoy! Also, stay around, I'd love to hear more about your experience. Sometimes we are like a bunch of yentas around here but it is mostly good-spirited.
Pat_host, can the Phaeton be added to the list in the masthead?
:-)
Yes, I realize that the car will only auction for $60000.00. A Mercedes will drop just the same instantly. My last car was a Mercedes and within 3 months I just stepped into a MB dealership just to act interested in a trade, to see what I could get for it. The car new was $101,000 and within 3 months, they only offered me $65000.00 for it. Therefore, I kept it for at least 3 years. The car never really kept any value. I think the Phaeton will do no worse than benz. Phaeton's are going to stay around for years as this car is IMO the most serious competition to a lot of other high end cars. Quality seems excellent and the prices are great considering the competition. All of the other high end cars have quality issues, except the mighty Lexus. I just don't like the looks of the Lexus 430. I like German cars. I have not had my Phaeton long enough to judge it on quality, but at this point, it seems as if it will be fine. Most all comments of the Phaeton experience seem positive.
Done...
Looks like I wandered into a hornets nest here ... personally, I like the Phaeton and I'm not knocking the vehicle, I've bought a few, sold a few and I probably put 1,500 miles on the last one, it's just because of bad marketing and super poor advertising (and being waaay overpriced) that this vehicle has not gotten off the ground, nothing personal ... that said, there isn't a Benz made that drops $40,000 in the first year, or any year for that matter ~ are you sure you weren't in a Kia store.? .l.o.l....
Anyway, enjoy your vehicle - nobody is knocking it ................
Terry.
I understand the S-class and 7-series do not hold their value as well as the E-class and 5-series, but I don't know of any Mercedes model that would lose 35% in 3 months.
FWIW, a couple of weeks ago I called on a 2004 E55 that was advertised in the Washington Post for $79,000. the seller indicated that it had already been sold and that he had a back up offer at $82,000. The car was $85,000 new, had 5k miles on it. Relocating foreign diplomat.
It seems to me that a BMW M5 or AMG E55 would be a much safer $80K+ investment, albeit a smaller car.
I didn't perceive you as knocking the Phaeton. Let me be more specific about the loss I had on the MB. The particular benz is a 2002 CL500 with AMG package, keyless go, comfort package, trunk closer. The car dropped quickly within the first few months (40000K). I had it appraised several times over the past 2 1/2 years and I never got the value Edmunds.com suggests. I was always quoted values of $10000.00 less than "good" condition for the car. I kept this car immaculate. I therefore kept it until just this week as I found this W12 and couldn't resist it. My boys are getting bigger and we needed a 4 door car again. Just this week the CL 500 was down $60000.00 since April 2002. Edmunds put it at $62000.00 wholesale and yet the dealers only offered between $43000.00 and $47000.00!!!!! 60% depreciation in only 2 1/2 years. It only has 31000 miles on it with almost new tires. Dealers and wholesalers both have told me this is one "cold" car. An S class may not have taken quite the hit. What is your thoughts?
When I checked how residuals held up in 2004 I found the residuals in the low 50's for both the E and the S. So whoever bankrolled those 2001 leases with 65+% residuals built in got killed. The LS430 in 2001 residualized at 62% in the lease and about 63-64% in real world prices after 3 years. I checked all of this real closely when I leased earlier this year and concluded it was the reliability issues that were the causes and the rewards.
Nice car.! - that said, you couldn't have picked a more "niche" vehicle .. depending on where you live, color, miles, condition, time of the year, etc, these can take a little bite .. lets face it, a C55 is not going to pull the Big Money in Milwaukee in January as it might pull in Atlanta or Dallas, but that will also be true of any expensive rwd coupe on the planet .....
Unless this thing has been miled out, caught in a 2 month blizzard and hit by a meteorite, then I can't see where you were getting the figures .... right now, the 02 super clean ones with miles in the 15/25k range, perfect paint, no Maaco are doing all of $60++ and on the Retail side, they will do all of $69 after the smoke clears ... where you have me lost is, the "01's" where doing the $60,0 region in the spring/summer of "03" and the "02's" were doing the $70,0+ and on the retail side, $79ish ... so you have me a little confused ....................
Terry.
Whatever you do, make sure you get the extended warranty and free Mercedes loaner service.
Phaeton - $549-649 in NJ with 0 down and no lease application fee. Driveaway is basically your first months lease fee + Motor vehicle fees.
A8 - about 950 a month on a 12-15K mile lease with zero down. Someone I know is looking at one. I just forgot if the miles were 12 or 15K.
Good luck and be careful with that Phaeton. It may be on its last legs. Problem is it's the same car as the A8 pretty much so why pay 350-400 a month more? Plus the VW probably has the better lux ride. I've driven the Audi twice - once on a test and it was harsh and again on a 350 mile spin (less harsh but I just wasn't impressed as it lacks the lux ride of the Benz S or Lexus LS430). Finally Audi service by me is as bad as VW so that doesn't cut it for the extra bucks - at least not here.
Yea i test drove all three. All VERY nice cars with their pros and cons.. My only concern about the phaeton is that it is a pain to get, service, etc. I actually test drove the cars in Florida over thanksgiving. The dealer in Pompano had the exact Phaeton i would get (Black/Black with the comfort package and technology package) with a decent deal... 2000$ down + inceptions at 800$ a month. He would deliver it to my (Philly) for like 350$. The nearest dealers to me dont have phaetons and i think that could be a problem if there is a problem. I also dont like the fact that i see SO few of them and that they may be "retired" at an early age.
Thanks for your help
Good luck.
C&D writes, "The arrival of the RL marks the end of Acura's inferiority complex...and the ultra-quiet interior combines typical Acura ergonomic good sense with all the hedonistic features you'd expect in a first class sedan."
Yesterday I saw a gentleman driving the RL with a permanent smile on his face. I couldn’t tell if he was rehearsing for a Levitra TV commercial or if he was just soaking in the the total satisfaction of driving the RL.