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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra
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Comments
I have following options (All are 4Dr, AutoTrans):
Honda Certified Civic LX'98 with 29K miles for around 14,999 7/100,000 powertrain warranty, 1 year B2B warranty. The warranty is non-transferable.
Ellantra 2000 with 22K miles for around 10,000$, I get the remaining of factory warranty which is is 4years/28K miles which I can transfer if I sell the car.
Civic 97 LX, with 42K miles for around 10,900$. It is has undergone used car inspection and has one year B2B warranty on it.
I test drove Certfied Civic 98 and Ellantra, I felt Ellantra had a better pick up and lesser sound, Civic had bettr front panel design.
Can someone recommend what would be a wise thing to do, considering my plan of keeping the car for next 2-3 years.
FYI -
My Civic is still doing well. Finally past the 600 mile break in so I can "floor it"...does not have as much thrust as the Hyundai did, but it is smoother and more quiet. The right side power window switch sticks. I thought it was an "auto down" window - but it is not. It performs like one though...;) Should I get it replaced?
Number one - according to the owners manual, it says 600 miles is the break in period. End of story.
Number two - who are YOU to call ME, or anyone, stupid because of a car that I buy? Not my fault that I have more money than you. These are economy cars. None of them cost over $20k. Not my fault that you think that I am "not so smart" or less of a car enthusiast either. These are not Mercedes - they are Hondas and Hyundais. I will probably not keep this car. I have no desire to keep any car for more than three years. And, I hate to say it, but when I bought the Hyundai I had NO intention of keeping it any longer than I had to. Good for you for keeping your Elantra forever. I for one, can afford more, so I will buy what I want. As far as losing money on trades - as I said - I ran into some money (Christmas and stock options) - so I spent some of it the way I wanted to. My payment is still under $300/month...that is what matters to me. Besides - got $7800 for the Elantra. Not too bad.....for a Hyundai. Considering the purchase price was $9998.
As far as ruining a car by driving at full throttle. I don't subscribe to that. If I cannot drive the car like a bat out of hell after the initial break in period, then what is the use? I would rather drive a slow, cheap car fast than drive a fast car slow.....
Anyway - as far as being a car enthusiast, I am guilty. My recrods shows - since 93 I have had a new car with each model year except for 95. I like cars....;) I am sure you are one too....though you are proving yourself not a "smart car enthusiast" by stating things that are not true. Do your research - then try to call someone out.....makes you look dumb otherwise..
And, for the record, once again, the Coupe looks like SH** on paper....but in person, my dark blue/beige coupe is quite attractive. The Sedan looks good until you see the rear end...
That said - hope you enjoy your Hyundai. For what is was, mine was great too. I just wanted a more plush, automatic, two door coupe that was inexpensive. I got one...so I am happy...FOR NOW
Firstly, Justin you did own a 2000 Elantra and apparently the only problem with it was that it was standard. If you loved the car so much, why didn't you just trade it in for the 2001 Elantra automatic? Why don't you just admit that you did not like the car? Instead, you sided with "Acuragrl" and on an impulse brought yourself a 2001 Civic! (by the way it looks like the "Acuragrl is another one who loves to switch cars!) The Elantra is an excellent car. And now your stuck with an almost $300 monthly car payment for the Civic, plus who knows how much your paying for 2001 Nissan Pathfinder you already own.
You really must be a fortunate guy who loves to throw away his money on cars! Well, its your money and you're the one stuck with the monthly payments and no one else!
HUH??? Who knows,she's probably too busy trading in her cars for 2001 models!
1)First Question is the ratio. If you go today to the market to get 2000 Honda Civic or let us say 99 Honda Civic, it is difficult to get in part due to very low(not even 1% for Civic) rental sales. Hyndai Elantra is sold in big numbers(almost 25-30%) to rental companys, it is the same thing as Taurus/Grand Am etc. Which are then Auctioned out or sold much less below blue book.
Rental/fleet sales has a dramatic impact on the resale. Tha fact that used Hondas are MUCH MORE in demand than used Hyndai's due to not very good reliability history. I am looking at live examples around me. 2001 Elantra(redsigned) is giving problem of stuck power window which will be fixed under warranty ofcourse..but is not good sign or confidence building thing for the new owner. It affect "reccomendation", 2 more problems & the dissatified owner influences decisions of many friends. On the other hand Honda's are not sold JUST due to warranty/low pricing, it is due to "reccommendation" from existing satisfied owners. Quality may improve in near future but currently there is hardly anybody close to Honda/Toyota in that regard.
2)Already answered: Hyndai Elantra(25-30% sales are to rental cos)
3)Ur claim about mileage is not correct.
24 City 33 Highway which is very much less than
32 & 38 civic gives.
4)Build Quality, Interior Materials, Attention to details, Engine Refinement(ULEV,100K miles tuneup)
Do we need to talk here ?
5)Safety: Civic has 5 & 4 stars for the Sedan & 5, 5 for Coupe. Elantra has "very Poor" for Side Impact rear.
Going Mcpherson Strut for some is an economical move: IT IS NOT. The reason behind it was Crash absorption zones by moving engine rearward & interior space by giving slight cab-forward profile.
6)Price diff: Invoice for Auto Elantra with $344 package with dest comes to 13K. For Civic LX it comes(side airbags + Auto)to 14960. That means it is around 2000 more than Elantra not 3500 as u were saying. We need to compare the models which peple buy the most. LX for Civic & $344 option for Elantra. Now, decide for urself, whether u can afford to put 40$ more for Civic over Elantra for a loan at 8% for 5 years.
7)We shouldnot forget that Civic is offered & sold in Sedan/Coupe, Gas-Engine, CVT Trans & soon to be joining Si model with 170hp from 1,7 Litre engine.
You are right - I like the Civic better. The payment is about $20 more a month - and it is quieter, a little more luxurious, and looks much nicer. Why would you assume that I side with ACURAGRL? She is one of the Honda owners that think that Hondas are better than all other cars. The thing that kills me is this: I never once said that I disliked my Hyundai, or that my new Honda is better than your Hyundai.
The fact that you and Elantra00 are so defensive, for no reason whatsoever, simply shows that it is YOU that is unhappy...and perhaps wishing that you were paying $300/month for my Civic. Otherwise, we would be talking about the cars, and not my buying habits. This topic is "Civic vs Elantra", not "Let's get mad at Justin for having the nerve to buy a car that he thinks is the one for him..."
Now, think about this. You had a Jetta VR6. Your reasoning is that you couldnt afford it. Fair enough, you traded that in for the elantra. Wise decision. But then you traded it in for the civic. What I am trying to understand here is that you were able to afford to lose the thousands in resale on the jetta and elantra to get the civic. Now, if you kept the jetta, you could have used the thousands you lost on trade ins and could have payed it off since you could afford it. Its like extra money in your pocket. I think that would have been a better choice, because it seems you have money to burn.
**I don't think you are like acuragrl. Just to clear the air about that. You never did say anything about honda being better. Just some of your logic is messed up, as I described above about keeping the jetta. This is just my own opinion. If you love your civic, thats great and all that matters. However, I would much rather drive a jetta VR6 then a civic or elantra
And just to make it clear, I'm not jealous of you getting a Civic. I already own a Honda Accord EX and I definitely do not envy your car payments, cause I don't have any. I brought my car in cash. I don't owe it. And I'm very happy with it, and I'm planning to keep it. I won't be trading it off once I get bored of it (if I get bored of it that is).
And you went out there and got yourself one. Interesting... the acuragrl did have some influence on you..
Correct!! I would MUCH RATHER be driving my Jet than this Civic. But - I can only deal with what I have, money wise, at the time. And last summer I did not want to afford the Jetta, had just bought the Pathfinder. And the NEW Civic was not out yet. And, the money that I lost on the trade of the Hyundai, a little less than 2k, was kind of what I consider "free money"...now, there are those that would say I should have invested it...blah blah blah. I already have investments. I got what I wanted for now....it really is not a bad car. AND - Elantra00, remember, NO CAR is an investment! Period. Your home is not even an investment....that is a big myth. That is another story...but just remember that.
Alese -
Yep. I did say the Civic was a POS. You are so clever and detective-like for noticing...(PS - do you have a life?) What was the date of that post? Please check and get back to me...At that time I had not driven the new Civic. And, seriously, and honestly, it is a nicer car. Most Civic and Honda freaks hate the new Civic due to the suspension. I prefer the new suspension. It allows for more room and a 5 star crash test rating. NO OTHER SMALL car gets that from what Motorweek said. Also - the new front suspension is still based on race car technology - whatever that means. And, like I said before, the engine is still not as fast or powerful as the Hyundai. I never said otherwise. It is however, more quiet, and MUCH more economical. But, lets face it, you don't buy a Civic or an Elantra for the engine....if you do...well, you have wasted your money. The new Civic seems a lot sturdier, and the interior actually has SYTLE, in the coupe anyway. Check it out for yourself....
I am allowed to like something other than a Hyundai...I hope you can understand, but if not, no big deal.
I think I have to side with Justin on this one. Its his money and his choice, he can buy whatever he choose to (including a Porsche 911), and there's nothing written in law that stated he should go for 2001 Elantra instead.
I agree it sounded rash, but heck, as long as he's happy with it, who the heck cares? Money isn't everything.
justin:
Just a quick question, besides the 600 miles break-in period, is there any other difference in the Civic break-in recommendation ? 600 miles seemed low to me, and I never saw anything less than 1000 miles for break-in period.
BTW, I still think the 4dr Civic looks better than the Coupe, and I've 2 park almost side by side at work....Just different taste I guess.
Just one last thing, it just seemed so strange to me (and maybe to others) that one minute your defending your Elantra and the next minute, you shared with us, that you bought a Civic. I've never tried to imply to you what you shall or shall not do with your money. If you have the cash to spend on whatever trills you on the moment, well so be it.
Good luck with your Civic.
Rest assured that from this moment on, I won't be directing any future posts to you.
Regarding El antra problem, Civic has problem as well. Case and point, check the Honda civic 3 topic. There' re quite some complaints there. There even some notification(?) that all the radio in the 2001 Civic EX will be replaced due to defective item. There' re also complaint regarding rattling noise and such. So, as you can see, Civic ain't bulletproof either.
If Civic is that good, why won't Honda offered at least 5yr/60K like Toyota (which is still less than Hyundai 10yr/100K) ? You can say "because they don't have to, and Hyundai has to do that to sell their car" well, I can say that Hyundai has more confidence on their car than Honda. For one thing, it should provides an extra blanket of security and peace of mind for Elantra's owner, especially after the 3rd year of ownership.
Resale value: Yes, resale value will continue to be on honda's favor. But when the initial purchase price is lower by 3K, plus the 6% interest (minimum) that you can get on that 3K. Well thats your money and if you deem that the Civic worth that much, certainly go for it. Myself, I can use that money on lots of other thing.
FYI, here's a comparison price data courtesy of CarsDirect.com
All car comes with auto,AC,CD,cruise,power everything & dual airside bag.
2001 Civic LX: $ 14,959 (no CD & security/keyless
entry
2001 Civic EX: $ 16,673
2001 Elantra GLS: $13,304
The LX doesn't have CD and security/keyless entry system and has the 14' tire as compare to the 15' tire in the EX and Elantra. As you can see the difference is around $3-3.3k. We should compare cars with similar features, not the one that people buy the most, since its not Hyundai fault that people have to pay more for a Civic to get the same features as the one in Elantra.
Build Quality: Have you ever been on the new Elantra and compare it with the new Civic?
Except for the "infamous new Korean car smell", the Elantra can match the interior design of the Civic, and its not as bland in the outside as the Civic (4dr version).
Just some of the things that we differ in opinions.
If anyone logged on this forum is considering an Elantra, and one of the things that bothers them is the "Korean smell", don't let that deter you from getting one.
The owners manual says 600 miles. And, interestingly enough, it does not mention anywhere that you should not exceed any speed or not to stay at a set speed for an extended period of time, like most cars. It just says no hard starting, and no fast stops. The service dept also says that they DO NOT want that oil taken out of my car until at least 6000 miles, if not longer. Honda is not putting some special oil in at the factory - the longer it stays in the engine, the longer the car will last is what they say. Perhaps break in periods just don't really apply to new technology anymore....who knows. I don't....
As far as Korean cars smells....I was happy to have it
BOTH cars are nice. Too bad Hyundai does not offer a good looking two door economy car....They could take TONS of business from Honda Coupe sales.
15959. So diff of 2000 when LX has 14inch wheels, Keyless entry(95$ option from Honda dealer)
1) U didn't mention mileage which is MUCH better for the Civic with ULEV engine.
2)Same with safety which is prob'ly the best for Civic in the segment.
Also, Hondas have a MUCH better manual xmission than any other manufacturer let alone Hyndai. Hyndai engine is much louder than the Civic. I am not talking about induction noise...just noise of all sorts. Also Automatic xmission goes for more than 160K. (Generic data).
Regarding fleet sales, yearly financial reports are published for every manaufacturer, u can have a look at that. Small town like ours has a lot of Neons, Corollas & Elantras on parking lots of almost every rental agency.
(Taurus for example has around 50% fleet sales !!)
yes, I have been in a lot of Elantras, 2 of my friends have 99 & 2001 models. Feet finish is good compared to GM/Ford but not at all close to what Honda/Toyota have. There are ir-regular panel gaps which are again bigger than Civic. Interior material quality especially the dash & other plastic is much better in the Honda.
Regarding warranty: I think for cars from Honda 3 years 36K miles is a very good duration for problems to show up except normal wear items & customers are happy with it. 7 year-100K miles warranty can be gotten for additional $550-600 which is transferrable, refundable & it should not be an issue with Honda. They run forever. My friend got 89 Accord(manual, Ex) in 98 when it had 142K miles(as a second car) now he has 178K miles on it !! Still running of the original clutch !!
Safety, Quality, Rediculous Resale, Sure footed handling, Highly Refined chassis, Very good interior materials, High Reliability is it worth additional 2000-2500 ? It is for me especially when Honda gives 4.9/3.9APR in some select months of the year.
Take a look at the Honda Civic 3 topic right here on Edmund. There' re complaints over there regarding malfunctioning radio and rattle noise as well for the 2001 Civic. Not very pleasing as well, isn't it? Some even stated that Honda going to recall the tape in the EX and replace it with a brand new unit. If that's true, hats just pointing out that even Honda can skimped on quality control.
You keep comparing the DX with El antra, while features per features, its a direct competitor to the EX. Since you wondering about car direct data, lets use edmund then:
Civic DX with auto + side airbag:$14,960 (invoice)
Civic EX with auto + side airbag:$16,674 (invoice)
Elantra GLS with auto & pkg 3:$13,304 (invoice)
minus the $500 rebate offered right now: $12,804
Elantra GLS with auto & pkg 2:$13,015 (invoice)
minus $500 rebate: $12,515
As you can see, an Elantra GLS will cost at least $3.3K less than a comparable EX. It also cost $2K less than a LX while the LX is lacking the keyless entry & security system ($200-250), CD and the 15' wheel.
Remove CD, and you're looking at $2.5K difference, while the LX still lacking the keyless entry & security system + the 15' wheel.
I don't know if you can get a 2001 Civic for anywhere near invoice, but I have known people that can get an Elantra for perhaps $100 over invoice or less.
I think you can say generally an Elantra will cost at least $3K less than Civic.
Regarding warranty, if you want to add another $550-600 dollar, thats fine with me. It will just show Elantra's value even more ($3.5-4K less). I don't doubt Civic reliability, but when something does happen (there's always a chance) and you're out of warranty, thats extra cost for the owner.
Honda always able to build great engine (as shown in the great mileage), but I think the Elantra engine is pretty good as well. Remember, it has 140hp compared to the Civic 115hp (LX) or 127hp(EX), so of course it will have worse mpg. I totally forgot about the hp comparison, that's another advantage to the Elantra! Of course you can bring in the Si, but that could very well cost over $17k!
As for noise, the 2000 Civic is not exactly "quiet" either. The 2001 is a definite improvement, but so does the 2001 Elantra is an improvement over the 2000 model. I say the Civic probably quieter but not by much.
Safety, I'll give the advantage to Civic based on the NHTSA. But lets face it, in a compact car like Elantra/Civic, our chances aren't pretty good when getting T-Bone by an Excursion.
Keyless Entry I got it for 95$ for my friend. Civic also has vehicle immobilizer. Tape is standard on LX. ($344 option package for Elantra)
Anybody on budget wouldn't want to have sunroof on Elantra I guess, so let us not compare EX vs Elatra with Sunrrof package. Also Elantra has put on 300Lbs more than 2000 model which offsets the HP adavantage...in turn it hurts the mpg.
Would be interesting to see lbs/hp ratio.
In case of Civic I don't think u will need to use warranty after 3Y/36K for any major problem given the reputation. Initial model problem should noit be given high waigtage. 2000 Civic had almost zero problems. It was prob'ly the best vehicle on road in terms of reliability. Same as CRV(based on Civic) has the best reliability in segment.
Elatra in 2000 (last year in cycle) model was failryl problematic given the examples I saw.
Other than the 2-2.5K cash which gets distrubuted over 3-5 years for me is worth for the improvements. Tha fact that I get back almost all that Extra $$ I spend for Civic afetr I am done with it the sweet topping over it.
Yes, Interest u can have it. But nobody pays cash for cars, so the diff is really 30-40$ per month for Civic which I would justify.
He got it for $3600 as used Civic was much expensive...Now what he has..??
Tape is standard with Elantra too, the $344 is for the keyless entry+security system and cruise
control.
You said after 3/4 month the Civic will be trouble free for the next 3-4 years. I can also say the same will happen with the Elantra since 2001 model is also the 1st model year. The difference is, when there is a problem 3-4 years from now (there's always the possibility), Civic owner will have to fix it themselves (or fork the $600 extended warranty), while the Elantra has the warranty to fall back on.
Sorry to hear what happen to your friend. There's no doubt older Hyundai has bad reputation. But if thats happen on a 99+ Elantra, he will be cover by the warranty. Not so if it happens to a 2001 Civic, and there's always possibility it will happen (example: 2000 Accord has some kind of transmission defect on the V6 model). Personally, I prefer to buy an extended warranty along with used car, just to be safe.
Its pretty obvious we have difference in opinions, lets just wait a few years down the road and see which one of us will be happier at the end. ^__^
In reading your post, you appear to be a strong proponent for the Elantra 2000. Prior to purchasing my '00 Elantra, I literally struggled for over 4 months before making my decision to go with the '00 Elantra. (your price comparisions I believe is accurate).
Having owned my Elantra now for 6 months, I have only grown to love my Elantra even more. This is an exceptional car, but I do have two observations. First: The engine noise is definately a bit pronounced, but clearly much more powerful than the Civic. This is especially noticable when you are using the air conditioner and carrying passengers (This is where you begin to really appreciate the Elantra's 140hps). Second: Elantra's suspension definately "clumps over the bumps" (Car & Driver '00 Review), and could use more refinement in suspension tuning.
I disagree with you in that I believe that the Civic's quality fit and finish and almost flawless quality control, remains unsurpassed by any subcompact auto manufacturer. I do however strongly agree with you that Civic's inflated prices ($3,000 and up), does not make it a good choice. When I looked at the Civic the the dealer, I nearly fell off my seat when and a 4-Dr. Civic w/basic equipment costed almost 16K.
Given Hyundai's incredible warranty, appealing prices (I Paid $12,145.00), fully loaded including alarm system + Cruise control, the choice was finally clear to me.
In Short, Civic is a better car, but no longer an appealing one given its inflated prices and limited options. If my Hyundai ages as well as the Civic in the next few years, Honda is going to have a major competitor to contend with in the future.
Robert MSEd.
Also enjoyed the discussion between sobers et. al. re Civic vs. Elantra. Thanks, sobers for your answers to my questions, although I still don't see all the Elantras on rental car lots like you do. I also agree with liufei that you must compare the Civic EX to the '01 Elantra to make it even, based on the equipment on the Elantra (add the sunroof to the Elantra and the side bags to the Civic to make it even closer). Re price comparisons, I scanned the end-of-year car ads in the Austin paper while I was there, and the real-world prices (what dealers will actually sell the cars for) were consistently $4000-4500 more for the Civic EX than the Elantra with comparable equipment. A good negotiator might be able to do a little better, but in my experience these end-of-year offers are usually at the low end--got to clear those lots off.
bob343 summed up my feelings pretty well on the Civic vs. Elantra--the Civic is a great car, better (at least in some areas like mpg and engine smoothness) than the Elantra but not worth the extra money. BTW, bob343, the '01 Elantra's suspension is improved over the '00--it's definitely NOT "clumps over bumps" but quite smooth. The engine noise is also reduced (new motor mounts) and the fit and finish is excellent, very close to if not equal to the Civic. Even with the extra weight for '01, the Elantra still outruns the Civic 0-60, 8.4 secs vs. 9.0 per Motor Trend 1/01.
Hope everyone has a great 2001 in their Elantras or Civics or whatever they are driving!
I need some assistance in the value that i need to cough up on this one. Had been to the dealer today, wherein he quoted me a price for 13.3K for a 2001 Elantra with fully loaded features like CD player, Keyless entry+security and cruise control. I noticed that a member(Bob343) had mentioned his buying price as 12.1K . I indicated my willingness to part with 12.5K for it. Do u feel thar i shud wait for the dealer to come down to 12.5K and/or do u hv any other suggestions for me ??
Wud highly appreciate ur inputs on this.
Thank you
Ganesh
In my opinion, Civic EX is not a better value as for another $1000 plus some change would get u in the Accord lx. I can't understand people getting economy cars with SunRoof & all sorts of extras. Ofcourse EX Civic has ABS, Disk breaks, Better Audio(??). But Civic LX makes more sense to me. Also Elantra loaded with $344 package is close to Civic LX except the wheels, Keyless whereas Civic has immobiliser. Keyless is 95$(dealer cost-with installed labor). So the diff is around 2K. (I don't think 14inch vs 15inch shoud make a hell lot of diff) which gives u better build quality, MUCH better Brand-Equity, Resale, Reliability. The initial Extra amount i almost gauranteed to be returned upon resale. So what u r missing really is interest on 2000 which is also not justified given that nobody pays cash for the cars
So It is up to everybody to decide whether they want to put extra INITIALLY. Better mpg(imp thing when gas reaches 1.80), low Maintenance is added plus. Also Civic is sold in a hell lot of different body choices & trims.
Hyndai is doing good job of selling cars here in US & also in other parts of the world.(My motherland has seen Hyndai selling vehicles at record place & doing a LOT of damage to Suzuki which was favored by the Federal Govt)
Santro(Small Car, Accent, Elantra, Sonata are really good offerings from this automaker BUT it would take it reliable & confident operation of 20-25 years to reach what Honda/Toyota have done.
Currently THAT $2000 is worth of investment for me
After 3-4 years I don't want to sell Elantra to find myself without prospective buyer resulting a rediculously low-tread-in value for a dealer. used Civic on the other hand is sold within a week after advertisement at a very respectable value.
Civic is an outstanding compromise between practicality(mpg, maintenance, resale, reliable) & performance. Addition of Si would be a perfect marriage of these factors.
Elantra: $13,334 with Package 2 (cruise, keyless entry with anti-theft alarm). Note that Elantra has $500 rebate; no rebate available now on Civic. Price after rebate: $12,834.
Civic LX 4dr: $15,700 with side air bags.
Features on Elantra that are missing on Civic LX 4dr: remote keyless entry with anti-theft alarm, 140 hp DOHC (vs. 115), 15" wheels/tires, 8-way adjustable driver's seat, heated mirrors, illuminated entry, padded armrest with bi-level storage, rear anti-roll bar, 5/60 full warranty, 10/100 powertrain warranty. Question marks (not mentioned by Edmunds): does LX have cassette standard? tach? variable intermittent wipers? Also, ABS with traction control and power sunroof are available on Elantra if you want them, but are not available on Civic LX.
Features on Civic LX 4dr that are missing on Elantra: micron air filter (although other posts have mentioned that it is available on overseas models and can be installed in US models), "immobilizer" (offset by Elantra's anti-theft alarm), 2dr choice (moot for 4dr buyers like me).
So based on current list prices, including rebates, Elantra is almost $3000 less than Civic LX. To make the LX more comparable to the Elantra, you would need to add the larger wheels and tires (probably would set you back $400, less whatever you can get for the old wheels and tires), the keyless entry with alarm ($95 seems low, but I'll take your word for it), 8-way driver's seat (Recaro? price??), and a few other bits plus an extended warranty (let's say $750 for that, although I think that's low). So let's say roughly $1000+ for extras. Now we're at a $4000+ difference, apples-to-apples--and the LX still has the 115 hp engine (with admittedly better mpg, but with 25 less hp it should have better mpg). That may not be big money to some buyers, but it is to me because of what I can do with it (kids' college funds at 15% return).
I agree that Civic is "an outstanding compromise of practicality and performance." But as a two-time Civic owner, I believe the Elantra is an even better compromise, because it offers better performance and is also more practical to buy. Buyers have reported on Edmunds Town Hall getting 2001 Elantras for under $11K. That makes it an incredible bargain. Hyundai has learned a lot in the 15 years they've been selling cars in the U.S. Based on where they are today, I venture that it won't take them 5-10 more years to equal the Japanese. They're real close right now.
That said - anyone that pays almost $16k for a Civic LX is out of there mind. In the US you can get EX's for under $15 (manual tranny four doors), those have ABS and sunroof standard....
But, yes, in general Hyundai's are cheaper than Hondas.
We can all accept that right? It's the new year...let's agree on SOMETHING!
Hope everyone has a good 2001 BTW...
I will take bare invoice prices when comparing cars & not the rebates. SOme delaer can get rid of cars below invoice. Let us talk about bare invoice. So the diff IS 2K.
- Yes LX has cassete standard. Keyless instaled in 95$(Got LX for 2 of my friends).
- 8-Way adjustments is a stretch as an advantge. Is it Power operated or manual ? It counts as an advantge only if it is power seat.
- Heated Mirrors; Yes it is Elantra's advantage
- padded armrest with bi-level storage,
rear anti-roll bar, ==> Do U REALLY THINK these are countable advantges or it just shows up when u compare it on Hyndai's site or carsidrect etc ?
- Civic has Double Wisbones in the rear -:)
Bones don't need anti-roll bars.
- Yes Lx has tach/intermitent wipres/Cassete std
- I don't think u should spend something to get one more inch of rubber on the wheels. It is non-issue. 13 vs 15 would have been a point. 14 vs 15 is just....
Regarding HP yes u r right but power-to-Waight ratio offsets Elantra's advantage. Also 8-10 mpg is a huge change of $$ u save every year. So is the safety which is a home run for Civic family buyers. Better build quality(said to be the best in class) Better interior materials
Regarding warranty: We know it all, without warranty Hyndai won't even sell. Which is not true with Civic. 3-36 is quite a good warranty.
My friend had Honda care for 600. 7 year-1K miles
Transferable, refundable etc etc.
My past experience with Hyundai was an 88 Excel sedan, 86 Excel hatchback, (?) Scoupe and a 94 Accent. The Excel had 108,000 miles and was about as crude as they get. Awful acceleration, handiling, fuel economy, noise, I couldn't even hold 70mph on the highway. The Excel hatchback was even worse. They both leaked, stalled at lights, leaked oil, and actually in the 86 the clip holding the gearbox broke so the stick could actually sink into the floor, and if you looked underneath the car, the gearbox would be close to the ground!!! The Accent was better, but smaller. It was the most ridiculous thing to accelerate. It ran out of revs so fast that I was in forth gear by the time I was at 40mph. I drove a scoupe as well, although I don't recall the year. That was actually a pretty decent vehicle. It had decent acceleration and handled nice too.
Back to the present, after seeing these two cars at the autoshow has given me a new appreciation for the other big H. I have respect in a company that at 1 time I would not be caught dead owning. But, like some others on this forum, only time will tell. I do see a couple of older Hyundai products on the road, but not many. I see a ton of HOnda's on the road, old, new, ancient... In fact I work with three people who own pre-90 Accords. All of them are daily drivers and run like brand-new. My 98 is at 85K and I've had the brakes done, that's it. I'm expecting 200K+.
And No, I'm not hear to say that if it isn't Honda, it's junk. I did however, purchase because of the name. Why not? If the reputation is to go 200K+ with tires, brakes and oil changes then I want a piece of it. If Hyundai suddenly builds a reputation for building cars that can go 200K+ then I might consider jumping ship. But we can't sit here and say that they're not trying.
bob343:
I don't think I qualify as a strong proponent for Elantra. But in the case of Elantra vs Civic, yes, I more than agree that Elantra represents a better value than the Civic. I can't agree more with your thought. The Civic is a great car, but at its present price, the Elantra represent a much better value to me than Civic.
backy:
Good point on the comparison. The real market seemed to inflate the Civic's prices even more. When I was looking for cars, the Civic prices are considerable higher than any other compact (even the Corolla), with the exception of VW Jetta. And I do agree AcuraGRL must be laughing after seeing the pummelling that justin got. ^_^
justin:
I don't think anyone will doubt that Elantra is cheaper than Civic. The question remains whether Elantra is a better VALUE than Civic.
sobers:
What is your point with the rebate? Honda also has their special financing plan from time to times (3.9%APR,etc), so ppl that doesn't get it also missing out. Also, why you said 14 vs 15 won't make a difference? If thats the case, even Accord will stick at 14 instead adding the extra cost of 15 or 16' tire. Its going to cost Civic's owner $400+ to get those 15 in the aftermarket.
Regarding HP:
Elantra: 18.82lbs/hp
Civic LX: 21.43lbs/hp
Civic EX: 20.18lbs/hp
As you can see, Elantra still has the advantage in power to weight ratio.
As for warranty, your friend just spend an extra $600 that added to the price differential, making the Elantra even a better value.
On totally different note, if not mistaken, you said that Hyundai is gaining marketshare from Suzuki in your motherland. I'm guessing thats India. How's Honda doing in there? I haven't heard of Honda holding a large chunk of the market outside of the US.
I always told near the end of the month, and the end of a day is better time to buy a car, because the dealer wanting to meet end-of-month quota,etc.
Check out the Hyundai Elantra 2 topic here in Edmund, there're some ppl just recently purchasing their Elantra, so you should be able to figure out whats a reasonable price is.
Power to wght ratio is just slightly better for Elantra. Additional cost for civic WILL be recovered in resale after 3-5 years.
Yes, Civic is costlier than Corolla by atleast $500 but u have to always watch options when u want to purchase any car. Camry XLE 4 Cyl can be optioned out to the level where EX-V6 Accord comes !! XLE V6 Camry optioned goes near 3.2 TL!!
So the point is whether the INITIAL investment is worth ? APR or even dealer incentive is different than outright rebate. Honda NEVER gives rebates....not even on Passports. Dealer Incentive is offered by Honda which dealer decides whether to share or not given the market demand-supply. Which keeps very good lock on the brand equity & resale values of the cars.
Honda is doing very well in India as their target is not small cars. Honda City compared with Opel(GM) Astra, Mitsu Lancer & sells very well, outpacing targets easily. Price Range:
700K Rs to 100K Rs (1$ = 46 Rs)
Hyndai there is also competing on the cost AND Technology but in small car segement with Santro & Accent yet to put Elantra in market.
India's law requires makers to produce/assemble cars in India, imports will be allowed after 2002
(UK-Accords will make it to India after that)
Honda is 2nd now iat Home i.e Japan. Displacing Nissan for 2000 !! UK market share will go up with the new Civic & to be redesigned Accord. They have VERY aggressive plans of 60% growth in other parts of the world !!
It is interesting that we always get away from the discussion of cars here. This is NOT a forum about money/finances, is it? Everyone talking about value, money, trade in value, etc. No one person can decide for another what a good value is, or what a "better value" is, or what a lot of money for someone is. To some, $200 is a lot of money. To others, $2k is a lot of money. I really do think that people that want to pay less, buy the Hyundai. That is what I did. When I decided I had more money, I paid more, to get more. No one can really argue that....We should really only be talking about tangible, black and white stuff. Engine performance, ride quality, stuff like that. In the market place, Hyundai equals quality at a low price. Honda means quality at a higher price. But - most would agree that you get a more refined product. Not necessarily better performing (except gas mileage), but just......hard to explain...more refined, if a little boring at times. I must say, with the Hyundai vibration and noise, I rarely got bored. Annoyed - yes. Bored - not really.
On another note - does the Civic now have the Accord steering? It is sooo light and easy, very unlike my 97 Civic and the 2000 Elantra. I think I read that the Civic now has the variable assist steering? That true??
Enough power, Good mpg, Well Equipped, upscale, Interior Room, price, Reliability, Resale etc Not to mention world class fit-finish (10 times lesser gaps than 2000 Civic which was bencmark of build quality !!)
It is up to everybody to decide whether they need
Civic for extra 2000-2500 bucks, major chunck of which is recovered after resale.
My friend put an add for 89 Civic with 90k+ mileage, Asking price: $4400 !! (No sunroof etc, Auto) This is just rediculous that within 2 days he finalized sale for 3950 !!
You bring up a good point regarding value. Its true "value" is perceived differently from person to person. But separating the price issue away from the car as a whole also take out an important consideration point for people that looking for a car. Afterall, why wouldn't you get the Jetta instead of the Civic? I bet price has something to do with it as well.
Yeah, you didn't get pummelled. What you get is a 1-2 hit combo! ^__^
sobers:
Well, I don't know where you lived, but I say your friend did pretty dang good being able to fetch near retail value for a car thats more than 11 years old. Either that or he snatch an uniformed buyer. In here, 92 Civic usually run for around $4K. Personally, I would've never spend 4K for a 11 yr old car. I spent that much for a 90 Corolla back in 96.
Hyundai and other Korean model does fare poorly in JD Powers. Same thing with Volkswagen, although can you really say the Civic is better than the Jetta?
Also, you're wrong about Honda never offering rebates. At least here a few months ago, the dealership has the a $500 rebate for the 2000 civic, as well as for the 2000 Accord. I saw the same thing last year. It usually happen right before or at the time the new model year comes out
Its clear that you pretty much have your mind set on the Civic as the right car and willing to fork the differences. Just try to understand that other ppl have different views and for them Elantra is much better than the Civic.
For a side by side comparison view, check out this link @ carpoint:
http://carpoint.msn.com/compare/choose.asp?Year1=2001&Make1=Honda&Model1=Civic&Trim1=93423&Year2=2001&Make2=Hyundai&Model2=Elantra&Trim2=&pt=compet
There! Not a word about money! Next time someone asks on one of these forums why people buy Elantras, I'll just tell them it's because the "H" logo on the trunk is much sexier than the boring "H" badge on Hondas. Or maybe it's those killer 15" wheels/tires, even if some people think they are worthless.
Even 91 Accord EX with 142K mileage was sol;d for 4000 !! Isn't that absurd ? but that is the way it is.
U r partially right: Honda had $500 on Civic & $750 on Accord 4 cyl but NOT REBATE. It was dealer incentive. Dealer may choose to share it with buyer or may not. Depends on the market condition. Helps to keep prices in that perticular area under check. Atleast I have not seen any REBATE from Honda in recent years.
They do have APRs & Dealer Incentive at tjhe end of model year(on 5 cyl accord not v6)
No, I am repeating the same thing, it is up to everybody to decide whether INITIAL investment is worth for Civic as major chunk of it will be back after resale. It is always smart to have a car in demand & good resale if u like to change cars every 3-4 years.
Again, Hyndai is doing very good job of selling cars & their competetive prices will help consumers only as Honda/Toyota & others will be forced to check on their prices. The same thing happened with Acura/Lexus/Infinity joining Lexu-game. Jermans had to check their prices.
I hope Hyndai gets even more better so that competetion will helps us. I see a lot of Jetta effect to Civic's redesign especialy interior materials which are now much better than 2000 Civic which inturn also the best in class in 96.
I am not trying to fear buyers away from Hyndai, just some thought to consider before putting hard-earned money.
Now, for the real stuff. Looking at the new civic, I say it beats the Elantra in only one category: Resale. Use to be interior layout too, but the 2001 Elantra wins hands down. Sobers, that is amazing of absurd of someone buying an 11 year old car for $4000. What was that guy thinking. for 1500-2500. Fine, thats not bad considering its a Honda. But not 4000!? What was that guy on? ^___^
The civic is not upscale, and defenietly not well equipped. The accord is upscale. Before you say anything, the elantra is not upscale either...these are econoboxes. Honda does have good reputation and reliability. But not well equipped. Remember our discussion earlier...to get an equally equipped Civic to elantra, you would have to pay 17,000...thousands more then the elantra.
So...reputation of reliability and high resale...honda wins. But everything else for value, engine power, equipped..Hyundai wins easily. And at the rate Hyundai is going, they will soon be equal with honda in reliability and resale.
How about: Better mpg, Better Build Quality, Better Interior Materials, Much better Crash Test results(imp for family).
You have agreed upon resale, reliability.
Hyundai(!) will need atleast 10-15 years of very well performance to come anywhere near Honda/ Toyota. Ford/GM are not able to match their quality since 2-3 decades. To match the resale of Hondas any automaker will need to watch supply-n-ddemand very carefully. One reason for Honda's highg resal is lesser give-away sales ar rebates-fleet etc. Not a single Accord is been used as Taxi(even Benz is used in UK as a cab) anywhere in the world. which creates immense brand-equity. EVen BEnz had to admit that only Honda comes close to them when brand-loyaltee & Equity is considered. However I am not baised against Elantra. It is up to individual to decide whether to put addional money on his/her car.
Regarding 89 Civic. I guess it is just the demand & supply. Winter here is really bitter & the guy needed immediate transport I guess. Mileage is also very less but 4000 is too much to pay. I guess, I need to ask my frined whether the car had any modifications/special wheels etc.
Also, please stop comparing the crash-test results for the redesigned '01 Civic with the '00 Elantra. The Elantra was redesigned for '01, includes front side airbags as standard, and will probably have different crash test ratings than the '00 model. The crash test ratings for the '01 Elantra are due later this month and in March for the various tests. When they are published, then we can discuss the relative crash-worthiness of the '01 Civic vs. the '01 Elantra. Otherwise it's apples to oranges.
Also, regarding safety: if Honda is so concerned about safety that they redesigned the Civic to get excellent crash scores, why don't they make ABS, an important safety feature, available on every Civic, not just the most expensive model? Why don't they make side air bags standard? (Note that the Civic's crash scores were with the optional side air bags.)
One more thing... how do you know for a fact that there is not a single Accord being used as a taxi anywhere in the world? Have you (or anyone else) surveyed the world's taxi drivers? This statement is typical of the hyperbole and inaccuracies to which you subject the patrons of this forum on a regular basis, and I for one am getting tired of it.
Take your pick - neither of them will steer you wrong.
Also it is asknoledged by Honda in its publication that Accord is NEVER used as a cab.
U can sue Honda for that if u observed otherwise.
Very low Rental sales in USA is a different thing.
That means u almost have to own Honda to drive one. This creates immense brand equity.
SMall scale rental sales do help as they advertise cars to consumers who eventually want to get one for them after renting one.
About interior materials, Honda had Jetta in mind while redesigning Civic this time. Also, they will have Passat in mind while launching next Accord. So the inetrior mateials have been much better than before which in tyrn were benchmark for the category. Build Quality of the new civic is been acknoleged as the best in segment. Just have a look at the gap between the front bumper & body. It is ZERO with 2001 Civic. was 2-3mm for 2000 !! ALL the panel gaps are UNIFORM which can't be said about any Hyndai car. Honda/Toyota's build quality is on par with luxo automobiles like BMW & Benz let alone others like Big Threes & Koreans.
Given the conditions it is tru that u require more INITIALLY to get a HOnda u the amount is paid off when u r done with the car.
I'd love to see the Honda document that says there are no Accord taxis in the world, because I'd like to know how they know that some cabbie somewhere has not purchased a used Accord and put it into service as a taxi.
Actually, to me the fact that a car is used as a taxi is a testament to the toughness and reliability of the car, since taxis take a pounding and rack up lots of miles. Since Accords are reliable, I'd wager the main reason they would not be popular as taxis is their high resale value--a cabbie can buy a larger car like a Crown Vic or a Caravan for a lower price.
I do know of at least one Hyundai with uniform panel gaps--mine. This is not surprising to me because Hyundai uses the latest robot technology, their own robots actually, to assemble the panels. BTW, these happen to be the same robots that assemble Mercedes Benzes, and their panel gaps are pretty good, right?
IMO In current form Civic EX is not a good value but this assured resale gaurantees its sale. Civic LX makes more sense to me.
Regarding Accords nor being used as cab: It is the dircet sale & Honda OFCOURSE can't control used accord sale for cab. BUT it doesn't make sense ofr a cabdriver to get a pricey used Accord instead of bigger car in uSA & deisel car in UK.
CAbs in UK are mostly run on Deisel.