Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

jerrym3 · May 2002

Something smells.

The Merc has no problems building a 2003 LSE, but the Crown Vic has wheel issues?

houndog · May 2002

Have to agree with JerryM - Ford can get wheels from 20 different vendors, and have them delivered by next week. There is more to this CV sport than just the wheel problem. Lets hope they are going with a true "upgrade" - how about the 5.4 motor, or the Marauder engine as an option. The police have been crying for more HP for years in the CV - 239HP is low and slow. Time to move up to at least 300HP for those who want it. Those who don't, let them stick with the plain base package.

resagent · May 2002

A significant upgrade in hp for the CV/GM will probably never occur until the young American drivers regain interest in this type of vehicle. Lets face it, without the demand from the police car/taxi market, this vehicle would most likely be out of production. And with the median age of the civilian versions being somewhere around 65, horsepower is not of primary concern. The police can cry to Ford about more hp all they want, but where else could they go if they dont get it? They have no alternative because American buyers would rather have SUVs. Ford must see signs of demand returning before they will improve this vehicle. The Marauder is promising, but at a price tag of 35k, and the worst possible color choice for the sunbelt, it appears destined for a short run just like the Impala SS.

jerrym3 · May 2002

Build it and they shall come.

The guy today in his late 50's-early 60's came from the muscle car era. Performance equals buyer interest, even for older folks like me.

A good example is the Jag S.

I can get a Ford discount on the 2003 Jag S 3.0, but not on the 4.2. Why? Higher demand.

But, don't build it at a 7-8K premium (Marauder) unless the performance is really there.

ron35 · May 2002

graybee - The brake dust shields you are looking for are called KleenWheels; they are available from JC Whitney or are cheaper at Auto Accessory Connection

http://www.accessconnect.com/ I bought mine from them for my 2001 GM. There is a school of thought out there that argues that these dust shields cause heat buildup, which causes the brake rotors to warp. I have found that vehicles with lousy quality OEM rotors have dealerships that love to use this as an excuse for warped rotors. I have been using these rotors on all the vehicles I have owned over the past 18 years without any problems at all. On one of my vehicles they have been installed for the past 18 years and the rotors are the originals. Road and Track did an interesting experiment on this a few years back. They road tested a vehicle under the exact conditions with and without the dust shields; the results were that with the dust shields installed the rotor temperature was 7/10 ths of 1 degree warmer, which is to say there was no significant difference at all. They do an excellent job of keeping the brake dust off the wheels and I wouldn't be without them.

Ron35

graybee · May 2002

Thank you, Ron35, for the helpful information and for sharing the benefit of your experience.

italianmama912 · May 2002

2003 GM HAS NEW FRAME, REDESIGNED INDEPENDENT FRONT SUSPENSION,MONOTUBE SHOCK ABSORBERS ON ALL FOUR WHEELS AND OPTIONAL SIDE AIRBAGS. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF CV FOR 2003 HAS ADDED THESE FEATURES, AS THERE IS NO OVERWIEW ON EDMUNDS FOR THE CV.

johnclineii · May 2002

The Crown Vic has the same new features as does the GM.

rea98d · May 2002

Sigh.
Sometimes, I think I'm sounding like a broken record.

The only difference between the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis is the front grille and rear taillights, and a few other cosmetic pieces. It has been at least since 1975, maybe earlier, and will probably continue to be as long as the Crwon Victoria and Grand Marquis are both in production. It's the exact same car sold under two names. They're so similar that Ford workers have been known to inadvertently put Crown Victoria badges on Grand Marquiss, and vice versa. When the Crown Vic gets an upgrade, the Grand Marquis does too. Otherwise, Ford would have to seperate Crown Vic and Grand Marquis production, which would be very very expensive. If anyone else has any other questions regaurding differences in the cars, the answer is

The Crown Victoria is the same freakin' car as the Grand Marquis. It just has slightly different chrome trim on the front & rear end.

johnclineii · May 2002

and slightly different pricing and standard equipment levels. That's all!

kinley · May 2002

how an assembly line can carry CV and GM on the same line. I've seen Towncars and Continentals on the same line while the Mark VIII's were on their separate assembly line. While putting out 11 Marks an hour, they would produce 33 TC/C per hour. Computer sequential production systems work very well without keeping too much inventory.

rea98d · May 2002

If you consider how many parts the Crown Victoria & Grand Marquis share, it would make no sense th have two assembly lines running the same car. Twice the machines to buy, twice the UAW guys to pay, ect, ect. All you gotta do is use your head a little, and make sure you get the right taillights with the right grille. And with the computer automatically keeping up with everything, that makes it easy.

kinley · May 2002

is the morning after the night before decision when the early crew shows up for assembly.

yonsei93 · May 2002

I have a 99 GM LS with 70k. I checked the transmission fluid level on the stick. And it appears it is above the second marker. What is the best way to take excess transmission fluid? Any ideas would be helpful.

pluto5 · May 2002

Go to K-mart and buy a pump siphon in the auto parts dept. It comes with a narrow hose that will fit into the dipstick tube, and will enable you to pump out as much fluid as you need to remove.

john00 · June 2002

I just got a 1997 Grand Marquis from my father-in-law. He's too old to drive any more. But anyway I've been away from these large cars for awhile now and the steering seems to have no feeling to it. It's seems quit scarry on a winding roads. Is there any solution to tighten up the steering on this car. The car is really nice otherwise loaded with all features leather electronic dash nice wheels no rust and only 49k miles. I'd like to keep it if the steering problem can be fixed. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks John0.....

pluto5 · June 2002

Try driving slower. The GM/CV is not a sports car. You could trade it for an 03 which is supposed to have rack and pinion steering.

john00 · June 2002

I'm not driving fast at all this is at normal speeds 25-30 mph. I had an 89 Lincon Town Car up until about 4 years ago and don't remember the steering being as baggy as this 97 GM. Maybe a new steering stabalizer is needed one of those shock looking things.....

kinley · June 2002

and compare the two. Try 35 psi in all tires.

golfnut5 · June 2002

I have a 2000 GM with 82,000 miles. Several days ago while traveling my air conditioner went from automatic to floor position without me touching the controls. This happened twice in two days. Has anybody else had this problem and if so what is the solution to this problem.`Thanks.

pat · June 2002

The Town Hall is about to take on a new look in an effort to make content more easily searchable and accessible.

Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.

And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.

Pat
Sedans Host

cslang · June 2002

I own a '93 Crown Vic with 135K easy miles on it. Except for costly EGR clean-outs, it's been a flawless performer. The transmission with overdrive lockout (button on tip of gearshift lever) has been serviced/flushed as recommended and runs smoothly at all times. I'm considering a 2000 Marquis with 70K highway miles on it, but my mechanic (I own a fleet of 6 very used but well maintained cars, 3 of them Hondas) has told me I've been very lucky with the Crown Vic -- he says 80-90K miles is all that most owners manage to go before a $2100 trans overhaul is needed. What do YOU think. What has been your experience?

jerrym3 · June 2002

I consider myself very lucky to have gone 93,000 miles without a rebuild on a 94 TBird 4.6 LX (same trans).

My brother-in-law's identical car had to be rebuilt after 40,000 and my father-in-law's 94 CV also needed rebuilding.

Back a few years, I would take limo service frequently to the airports, and I was shocked to feel many 94 Towncars with the infamous 3/4 shudder.

Now, my trans has a tenancy every so often to drop down a gear, and it doesn't matter if I'm cruising or coasting. (Doesn't appear to happen under throttle.)

At least the occasional shudder stopped.

How Ford got away without a major recall on the 94-95 transmissions is beyond me. Maybe that's one of the reasons their market share dropped.

kinley · June 2002

is another story, but FOMOCO paid for 50% of the repair at 97,000. Car = 94 Towncar (fancy ford)

427435 · June 2002

My '93 Grand Marquis (it also tows a 3000 lb boat a couple thousand miles a year) has 175,000 miles without tranny problems. My son's '94 V-8 T-Bird also has 136,000 miles w/o tranny problems. They both get the tranny fluid changed about every 50,000 miles (or when the "shudder" starts) with Mobil 1 transmission fluid.

If you buy a used car, the first thing I would do is change all the oils (engine, transmission, and differential).

Kirstie_H · June 2002

A major daily newspaper is looking for people who bought used luxury cars with the idea of moving upscale at discounted prices only to find out that the cost of parts and service was greater than expected. Were you surprised or shocked by the cost of routine maintenance and common repairs like mufflers, brakes, shocks and struts, transmissions, headlight replacement, etc.?

If so, please send an e-mail containing your contact information and vehicle description to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, June 12.

rea98d · June 2002

I think I have the trump card when it comes to 4R70W transmissions (The ones put in all the 4.6 powered Crown Vics and T-Birds). My '95 has 208,000 miles and counting. I did have to get a fluid leak fixed at about 150,000, but the transmission was operating fine mechanically. The 4.6 burns a little oil (through the valve stem seals, I'm told), and the front suspension makes noises in cold weather. Other than that, the car is in great shape mechaincally, especially considering the distance it's been driven is almost as far as from the Earth to the Moon.

One caveat, (and how Ford got away with not recalling '94/95 transmissions), these transmissions are hard on transmission fluid. Flush & refill every 30,000 miles, and use a fully synthetic Mercon V fluid, and any shuddering should go away and you should be fine for another 30,000 miles.

melmo · June 2002

I have a great (Black) '00 GM/HP. No complaints except,I'd like to have an '03 Marauder. I can do that for about $15k or $16k -- that's with three zeros,plus my '00 GM. Now, I can do with out all the goodies inside, but would sure like to have that 80 or so extra horsepower. And, if that can be done for say $5k or $6k ... Any thoughts on 1. can it be done? and 2. How? Oh, and, No Bottle -- should be all throttle.

captainj · June 2002

harmar · June 2002

Have you checked TSBs for anything on this quirk? I think I recall something in them, early on in that model year, re: AC or heater controls. You can look at www.alldata.com for the TSB number and date, then ask your dealer about it. Good luck.

wgr · June 2002

Crown Vic has an LX Sport model for 2002, but I don't see one listed for 2003 on Edmund's. I assume one is planned ?? Also, what about a Sport medel for the 2003 Marquis. Does anyone know ?

johnclineii · June 2002

The CV Sport has been delayed due to problems with certification of the 17" wheels. See the news section of http://www.crownvic.net I happen to think they also wanted to be sure the Mercury Marauder didn't have lower priced competition at first.

jerrym3 · June 2002

Couldn't agree more with post 1434. In fact, Mercury doesn't want to compete with Mercury. You cannot get a black Grand M with bucket seats. You want black four door with buckets? Buy a Marauder.

How's that for paranoia?

kinley · June 2002

Maybe the TC has hoarded the entire supply and production of 17" wheels, preventing the CV from having any.

houndog · June 2002

Had a good look at the 2003 Merc. GM - ready to replace my 99 Merc.. If you want the HPP package, which I do, you must have leather LSE model. No cloth interior with the HPP package. Can you believe it?? Once again the customer is ignored, and Ford decides what I want. For those of you who can't stand leather, forget the Mercury - go to the Ford dealer, order the CV-LX with the HPP package, and get the cloth interior. FMC will still get my money, but my Mercury dealer has lost a sale for no good reason. Too bad for the dealer, I would rather have the Merc.

jerrym3 · June 2002

Looks like if you want the handling package on the Merc, you must get the LSE with leather bucket seats (3:27 rear, all others 2:73)

Since Ford is holding back on the bucket seat CV LX Sport, are they holding back on the handling package also?

golfnut5 · June 2002

Thanks for info, I found something that I can take to dealer.

george00 · June 2002

Another police Crown Victoria has burnt to a crisp along with the cop inside - the appalling picture of the burnt-out heap is all over the newspapers of Arizona. The Arizona Republic for June 13, 2002 has the details, which you can get at:

http://www.arizonarepublic.com/news/articles/0613Copkilled13.html

For a story of another cop in a burning Crown Victoria, who perhaps was less lucky than the one who was killed, see:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/mon/20610rFacelessManII2fmai2fms.html

Does anyone know if the police version of the CV is different from the stock version - e.g., is the gas tank, which seems to be the culprit, in a different place? Larger? I now own a 2002 Camry with a seat so uncomfortable that I was considering trading it for, among others, a CV or Grand Marquis, but I don't fancy driving a death trap.

houndog · June 2002

Tank explodes after 70 mph rear end collision - how many cars can take a 70 mph hit and survive? Impossible to know. If 70 is not enough, how about 80mph, or 90mph - where do you draw the line?? The CV and GM are some of the safest cars ever built, yet people drive little econoboxes every day, which get crushed like toys by trucks, suv's, etc. I will gladly take my chances in my Mercury GM, and have no regrets. Any gas tank can explode if hit hard enough, I don't care if it is a Rolls-Royce.

rea98d · June 2002

So a guy gets killed when his car in crushed by another car going Warp 9, and suddenly it becomes a death trap? I'm sorry, the guy would have been just as dead in a Toyota, but since this is a domestic car, as soon as the public has some big, dramatic story, they try to scare people away as bad as they can. I may end up getting a "new" used car in the near future, thanks to a hailstorm, and a Grand Marquis is at the top of my list. And no, I'm not climbing underneath the thing with a Dremel hunting for bolts to cut off. Just once, I'd like to see a Toyota get crushed like a soda can, and everybody talk about how dangerous that car is. Nope, badmouth the domestics all you want, but heaven forbid you say anything bad about a Honda or Toyota. That whole "Cop car catches fire thing" is nothing but alarmist scare tactics. If that sort of thing scares you, I wonder how you make it out the door in the morning withou fearing an 8 lb chunk of space rock will fall from the sky and strike you on the head, cause I can guarantee you every time that happens, the poor sap is going to end up dead.

george00 · June 2002

I find it difficult to believe that the police in Arizona, whose union is questioning the safety of Crown Victorias, are a bunch of scaredy cats afraid to make it out the door in the morning. Moreover, I was not talking about people being crushed in small cars but policemen being burned to death in big ones.

In any event, I was certainly not badmouthing domestics in favor of Toyotas. Just the contrary, I said my Camry is so uncomfortable that I am considering a CV - and, hey, my Camry was made in Kentucky, isn't the CV made in Canada? This domestic versus foreign stuff is really getting tiresome.

Anyway, what I asked, and what neither of the ostensibly responsive postings even addresses, was whether a police cruiser has different specs than a stock CV or Grand Marquis? Does anyone know the answer to that question?

johnclineii · June 2002

The Police Version and the civilian version have the same fuel tanks in the same location.

The point about comparing high speed crashes is legitimate. There is no need to fly off the handle at others expressing their opinions. OTOH, the CV and GM are among the last cars still made where the gas tank is still located rearward of the axle. The end of this story has not yet been told.

If this bothers you at all, and I sense that it does, you might want to look at a Chevy Impala LS or a Buick LeSabre or even a Toyota Avalon. That last, however, you will find is much smaller and much more expensive than the big Fords. Also, the first two are both front wheel drive, which many see as a negative.

george00 · June 2002

John: Thanks for the information about the location of the gas tanks.

But why is everyone referring to high speed? 70 mph? 80 mph? 90 mph? Warp 9?? The Arizona policeman who was burned to death last week in his Crown Victoria cruiser was traveling on a local street in Chandler when a 72-year-old driver cut in front of him to make a left turn. The policeman tried to evade the car, which hit his cruiser on the side and spun it around until its rear collided with a lamppost and the cruiser exploded. No speed is mentioned, but how fast can a car making a left-hand turn be going? Moreover, the police cruiser was not rear-ended, as one poster said, it was hit on the side, and probably was nearly stationary by then. In fact, it is precisely because the accident was so undramatic, and not involving high speed, that other police officers are so upset and wondering how safe their CV cruisers are.

John's suggestion about the Impala is of course a good one. Unfortunately, I have tried the Impala and found the seat too hard and too sharply contoured - though otherwise I liked the car and came quite close to buying one, especially as our local Chevy dealer is particularly nice. By the way, aren't Impalas used by many police forces? It would be interesting to compare their accident statistics with the CV cruisers.

As for the LeSabre and the Avalon, I'm afraid they're rather beyond my budget. But thanks again for the helpful suggestions.

jsylvester · June 2002

Hard to say why the car caught fire. Physics has a weird way of transferring energy. It could be the exact spot the car hit caused a certain shearing force in the filler neck or tank mounting that punctured the gas tank.

What is sad is if the car was rear-ended, he may have been fine, as the car was safety-designed to protect in those angles of force on the gas tank.

I do know the rear suspension was redesigned for 1998, so maybe a bolt head sticks out further than before. Who knows, that is why they will investigate this accident.

As far as alternatives, I have an Intrepid R/T which is the basis for the 2002 Intrepid police model. I'm happy with mine, and it is roomier than a Camry, and the Intrepid is less expensive than the LeSabre or Avalon.

rea98d · June 2002

Warp 9? Okay, so i went a little overboard. Sorry. Point is, Crown Vics get hit from the rear all the time. There's zillions of them out there, and this is the first I've heard about it. Maybe its the somewhat gruesome & painful way that that one particular officer was killed in that has the State Police worried. But this is not an epidemic. Explorers rolling over when Firestone tires blew out was an epidemic. Bubonic plague was an epidemic. This is a guy getting killed in a traffic accident. It's tragic, yes, but it happens a lot. And it's not the car's fault. The Crown Victoria has proven itself to be a very safe car time and again. Don't let the one guy who didn't walk away frighten you. You take risks every day, whether you want to or not. You just gotta decide what risk you can stomach (Driving) and what risk you can't (BASE jumping).

johnclineii · June 2002

GO read this, then say that again:

http://www.crownvic.net/news/ncsp.shtml

harmar · June 2002

I'll bet the car caught fire, because the officer wasn't wearing his seat belt, and the buckle whipped around, struck his pants belt buckle causing a spark which flew back and ignited the fumes from the busted gas tank! (Gee, do you think I listen to Joan Claybrook too much? Sounds like food for a future ad by her organization.)

johnclineii · June 2002

or a defense for the Ford Motor Company. You'd make a fine lawyer, or....are you?

george00 · June 2002

As I have now decided not to purchase a CV, or any other Ford product until the company gets its act together (I have owned a Ford Escort station wagon, a Ford convertible (late 1950s - I forget the model), and a Mercury Marquis), this will be my last posting here. I would, however, recommend that posters consider that the police officer burned to death last week in his CV cruiser in Chandler, AZ, was 25 years old, and that they have a look at a photo of last year's CV victim who has no face at all - it was burned off, leaving him looking like a horror movie monster. I fail to see the humor in any of this, though I do like to laugh when I can. By the way, yesterday the Phoenix police department pulled all its CV cruisers off the streets to have their gas tanks replaced (or covered, the report was not clear) with protective material used in NASCAR races.

harmar · June 2002

Suh, y'al cut muh ta the quick with thet remahrk! Were ah not sech a nawthern gentleman, ah'd challenge y'al ta a dewl! Say -- Marauders at fahrty paces? Y'al take keer now.

Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

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