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To be fair, we liked our DC mini-van, but were not confident in the vehicle beyond 30K miles.
Just look at all of those solid black dot on CR's reliability ratings for the DC vans.
Now compare the years the Odyssey has data for year for year and tell me which one has the better historical reliability.
The CR recommendation IMHO is based on the across the board performance of the Honda and Toyota model lines.
But you have yet to suggest credible rationale or even evidence that CR has any sort of bias.
I wish you well with your DC van. We found ours a very comfortable ride, but it made me nervous concerning what would happen after the warranty expired.
Cheers,
TB
Sue B., my niece,had the 1988 Accord with transmission failure at about 60,000 miles when Accord was 7 or 8 years old. I have tried to get more exact data but she either does not know or does not want to tell. She got the Accord as she heard Japanese built cars were reliable and did not like her Chevette (a Japanese built car by Izuzu). Thus her trauma with the Accord.
Natalie K. with 1988? Accord was the babysitter of 2 of our grandchildren. We picked the grandchildren up about 2 times each week. Natalie had spent $4000 on repairs (Engine or Trans...I do not recall as it was about 1 year ago). She was told the other component was failing and needed another $3000 in repairs. Her parents bought it new and gave it to her when they got a new, later model Accord.
Judy W. is a friend who has a 1991 Accord EX and she said her Accord has had problems of all types especially electrical and she was the one who said "Do NOT buy a Honda".
Omar S is my son-in-law who bought a used 1984 Honda Accord after the engine and transmission were both overhauled at about 150,000 miles. I do not know why both components failed and neither does he as he did not own it at time of failure.
Thank you!
KarenS
Vans host
On the 1999 Annual Questionnaire[a mail in form], readers were asked about "serious" problems that occurred between April 1998 and March 1999. We received responses covering more than 500,000 vehicles. ... The data used to create the charts are standardized to minimize differences due to varied mileage. On average, the 1999 modela included were 6 months old and had 3000 miles.
Average is compared to all cars in the same model year.
A red circle is for problem rates 0-1.99%
red half circle = 2.0-5.0%
open circle = 5.0-9.3%
black half circle = 9.3-14.8%
black circle = 0ver 14.8%
carleton1, you would look a lot less dull if you'd take the trouble to understand what CR does before you knock them. And, as tboner has asked many times now, why don't you tell us just why it is that kindly old Rhoda Karpatkin and her happy little CU family are out to get Chrysler?
Cheers,
TB
Please show me, troublemaker, where any of these sources give percentages of problems reported by owners in statistically-significant random surveys. Do you really think manufacturers make failure percentages available to the general public? I don't think so.
From 1992 through 1999 only two model-years of all Chrysler-built vehicles made the Consumer Reports list of reliable used cars. Chrysler "bashed" themselves, don't you think, by making vehicles of subpar quality for most of a decade? Why don't you guys just face up to reality and quit your unfounded rantings? By the way, I'm still waiting for you to ask carleton1 where he saw statistics supporting his allegation about the Odyssey being the "most trouble-prone minivan."
http://www.thegrid.net/thedrivetrainpage/whtobuy.htm
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/chrysler.htm
http://www.autosafety.org/minivan.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/chrysler_mini_vans.htm
http://www.badtrans.webprovider.com/id17.htm
http://geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7135/
http://www.carcast.com/cc/conference/messages/1247.html
There is a lot of good documented historical
data. As more 1998, 1999 and 2000 get above 50,000 miles in mileage, they will also be included in the above data showing long term reliability problems. Chrysler has done little to nothing to help improve their proven history of long term unreliability. Every year since 1990 Chrysler has claimed increase commitment to reliability, but to date have done little if anything to achieve it. The more research done, the more obvious it becomes.
the experience of their many satisfied neighbors more than the few, outspoken self-appointed "save the world from Chrysler" fanatics?
I went through hundreds of postings on two threads where carleton1 was complaining about DC bashing by Ody owners and in both it was clearly demonstrable that the instigator in every case of so-called "bickering" was carleton1. Perhaps he's still unhappy his wife wouldn't let him have an Ody, and this manifests itself in his outbursts of temper. But I am pleased for his sake he has "dual zone climate control" to console himself. It's such a wonderful feature that Chrysler chooses not to offer it on any other vehicle.
The problem is not who "started it" or who is the supreme basher of all time. The fact is you will never agree...so let's put it to rest!
It's to the point where those who refuse to refrain from filling their responses with personal jabs and insults towards other members will be invited to go elsewhere.
KarenS
Vans host
Caravan experience or what they have heard from
others is really of little value. A real survey as to the reliability and value of a vehicle is to
utilize as many data sources as possible. I would suggest looking at:
http://www.thegrid.net/thedrivetrainpage/whtobuy.htm
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/chrysler.htm
http://www.autosafety.org/minivan.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/chrysler_mini_vans.htm
http://www.badtrans.webprovider.com/id17.htm
http://geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7135/
http://www.carcast.com/cc/conference/messages/1247.html
If you can conclude after reading all of the above that Chrysler has a history of building vehicles with long-term reliability and dedication to customer satisfaction, or that by some miracle they finally have improved long term reliability for 1998, 1999 and 2000, or there are only a few that have problems, or all other car manufacturers have the same long history of long term reliability problems - then you should feel secure in buying a caravan.
I'm planning to do the transmission service to my 98 Caravan sports this weekend. A couple of quesions here before doing that job.
1. After loosing those bolts from the pan, is the pan cover easily removed and the fluid flows out to the container put under the pan? If not, is there any tips for doing this?
2. Where should I buy the filter and the gasket? Should I buy them from the dealer also or I can use the aftermarket one?
By the way, I tried to check the air filter of my Caravan last Saturday, after loosing those two bolts in the front, I can not open the cover, and I can't find other bolts there, do you have any comments? Thanks a lot!
Xingze
Another tip, before you drop the pan, to make the job less messy, get one of those small hand pumps, put the CLEAN pickup hose down the dipstick tube. Pump out about 3-4 quarts into your container.
Now, when you drop the pan, there is less fluid to spill.
Hope this helps.
TB
Check level as follows. Drive at least 10 miles to heat up transmission. Stop, and move gear selector through all gears. Place in PARK, and let engine idle with AC etc. off. Remove transmission dipstick, wipe clean, reinsert and then check. Add fluid only if necessary.
HINT: Some pans have a plastic clip holding the wiring harness to the pan in a hole along the front edge. I cut and removed the old clip to faciltate removal of the pan. I secured the harness to the adjacent front member usinf new plastic clips.
Buying any new vehicle in the first year is a gamble - particularly from an automaker that has had trouble with launching new models that are trouble-free.
Raise vehicle securely and remove front tire. On the bottom surface of the ball joint is a small nut. Remove this, and thread in a grease nipple (obtainable from several sources including PepBoys). Tighten GENTLY. Use grease gun to inject any good quality grease sufficient to bulge the rubber boot slightly, but not enough to leak out (usually 3-6 pumps of the handle). Install tire. Repeat on other side.
Failure to do this on a regular basis will require replacement of ball joints that may cost $400-500. The removal and installation can be done by two persons, takes about 4-5 hours, and will save $300-400 labour (that is a whole new story!). The control arms have to be taken to a machine shop so that the new ball joints can be pressed in. The ball joints themselves are around $25-30 each, plus half an hour labour charge per control arm, for around $100-125. The van will need a front alignment job after this type of repair, costing another $50 or so.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in this case.
When I did my first fluid and filter replacement, I got a Purolator kit. The filter looked identical to the factory filter externally. I liked the gasket they included. It stayed in place nicely when refitting the pan. I did use a torque wrench on the pan bolts, but I guess you could do without one.
Everybody gets fooled the first time replacing the air filter. The two bolts hold the resonator in place. Once that is removed, the actual air filter box in below and to the right of the resonator. It has the metal clips. By all means, do not pry your resonator apart looking for the filter! I imagine that would be an expensive replacement. My Haynes manual totally misled me on this.
At the local PEP Boys I noticed a transmission pan drain plug kit. You drill a hole in the low spot of the pan, thread a bolt into that hole with a smaller drain plub in the center of the bolt. It looks rather nifty and would allow a fluid drain without dropping the pan. The only problem I envision is that it would be in a vulnerable position if you ever ran over a curb or some rocks. It looks like you could rip the whole thing off the bottom of the transmission.
Do I need to do flush when draining the transmission fluid? By the way, what kind of oil filter do you always use when changing the engine oil?
For the engine, I used a Fram ToughGuard filter with Mobil1 5W30 oil for changes at 2500, 5000 and 7500 miles. I have now moved to a Mobil1 filter with Mobil1 Tri-Synthetic 5w30 oil at the 10K change, and plan to use this combination every 5K miles.