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This sludge thing is part of the reason people think Toyota's 7500-mile, and now Honda's new 10,000-mile, oil change interval is way too long, and go with 5000 or less instead.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Interesting.
~alpha
The sludging in the Corolla is extremely rare unlike the one affecting the larger engines as nippononly said. Sludging happens on other cars (non Toyotas) as well but like the Corolla examples, it is rare.
Sandman, shame about your sludging problems. Toyota should really not tell people to change their oil at 7500 mile intervals because most people do not check their oil between oil changes.
Many years ago GM (I think)came out with oil consumption guidelines and 1 quart of oil usage per 1000 miles is within the range of what is normal. Unfortunately most of these smaller engines only take 4-5 quarts of oil so you could potentially use up all your oil between changes and not know.
My brother's Tercel had major oil consumption problems after 120,000 km and Toyota could never find the problem. They re-did the valve stems and seals etc with no change. The car did run well however and compression was always good but he spent a fortune trying to get this fixed without resolution. He now drives something else.
Nippononly are you a Toyota techy? - could you shed some more light on this.
Lots of oil loss would usually not be caused by bad valve seals or stems - I am surprised they did this expensive work, unless there was another reason for it. Plus, you would know about bad seals because of smoking at start-up.
Basically, repairing the piston rings is not cost-effective usually for tercels, most of which are not worth very much, which may be why I have seen a few with this problem. Until you are blowing a big smoke cloud whenever the engine gets hot, I would just keep driving a car like this and remember to keep the oil topped up.
boilerman: "Millions of engines" (2 million or so, actually) WERE affected by the sludge TSB, but Toyota never repaired more than several hundred under this program. The problem was probably one of design (although I do not know why the manufacturers recommend such long oil change intervals), yet relatively few actual repairs were required. It got slightly overblown, mainly because Toyota let the first few owners with this problem stew while it waited to see if there was a systemic problem.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Actually the few people I know who have had problems with Toyotas, have mostly had Tercels. My guess is that the cars are generally so reliable, some Toyota techs may not see many of these often enough to really understand and recognize common problems with certain vehicles, especially outside of high-volume metro areas.
In your opinion/experience which has the better/more durable motor the Toyota Corolla, the Honda Civic or something else?
I plan on doing the same with my Corolla, although I'm seeing already its using oil, have to keep an eye on it. Of course Toyota's dipstick leaves a lot to be desired, guess I'm just used to american cars.
Only problem I've had with my Corolla in the 2 weeks and 1300 miles I've had it (it now has 45,350 miles on it) is the clutch is weird. Maybe its just a Toyota thing or maybe its just this car, but really have to push the clutch in all the way to get it to shift after its been driven for a while. It doesn't like 3rd gear very much.
Ah well, I'll take the quirks, love the 40 mpg!!
Since the late 90s, I think all engines are built to much tighter tolerances and therefore can stand less abuse in general, so that may have equalized the long-term reliability of this pair.
One place there is more of a disparity is transmissions: corolla automatics are significantly more durable long-term than Civics' - some of the Honda ones fail in less than 100K miles (which I call inexcusable barring severe abuse). I think in general Honda has trouble building a really good auto trans, as the recent enormous auto trans recall (Accord, TL, Odyssey, 1.3 million in all I believe) may also indicate.
However, for long-term durability in the manual trans, I would go the other way: Honda builds superb manual transmissions that last forever.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have narrowed down my search to the 2004 Corolla LE, but am wondering weather to go with the extra "B" package up here in Canada, which has the following options: Front side airbags, leather seats, moonroof, leather wrapped steering wheel, chrome inner door handles, theft deterrent system, and fog lamps.
I have never had leather seats and am wondering if anyone out there has a 2003 with leather seats and what they think of the seats, leather quality, etc.
Also, the summers can be extremely hot and the winters very cold up here. What should I know about leather? Stick to the seats in summer while wearing shorts? Cracking in the winter when its -40? More comfortable or less comfortable for long drives than cloth?
Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. - Greg
I have never had a moon roof. I've driven the Corolla with a moon roof, and this is the first small car I've had where I've still had enough head room with a moon roof installed.
Do I have to worry about any of the following:
1) more chance of rust due to the roof being cut to allow for the moon roof
2) water leakage problems
3) general costly maintenance problems over the 10 years I hope to own the car
4) any other problems that you know of.
Also, could you please tell me why you like or dislike your Corolla moonroof (or any moonroof in general).
Thanks a lot! - Greg
Moon roof -
I believe the antenna may cause a humming sound that you can hear through the moonroof, unless it's the roofrack I got on my Vibe.
I use mine on nice days, not too hot. Usually between 55 and 75 deg C - three weeks in the Spring, and three weeks in the fall. I got the moonroof on the Vibe because they offered a discount, otherwise, I would have not gotten it. Have one on my older car - nice, but doesn't matter much to me.
I'm just a simple guy living in complicated times.
Factory Roof's are stamped and should not be a concern as they prime the whole roof.
2) water leakage problems
None so far on my 99 Van, but have to think about the rubber weather-stripping.
3) general costly maintenance problems over the 10 years I hope to own the car
Make sure it doesn't leak once you get it due to water routing problems.
Take care of the weather-stripping and clean/lube the hinges once in a while (every two years for me)...
4) any other problems that you know of.
Now, the sulfur/rotten egg smell is still there when the engine is cold. I've tried Esso and Shell (no Sunoco here) and noticed less smell with Shell. The dealer couldn't find anything during the first service, but suggested that the cat needs about 20 minutes of driving to warm up and then there's no smell.
Besides those quirks, my Corolla has been a great car for its 9500kms. Got it in November.
As to moonroofs, in ten years you should not need to attend too much to the weather-stripping, but much older than that and it does occasionally become an issue. It is not super-expensaive to have redone. The only other problem is if the drains built into the roof clog...then you will see dripping inside and you will have to clear them or have someone else do so. I have never experienced rust issues with the factory roofs in Toyotas. The only exception to that is the old sunroofs (when they were metal, not glass), sometimes the leading edge of the actual sunroof would begin to rust sometimes. Now that they have gone with glass moonroofs for so many years, that should not be a problem any more.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Did anyone here consider those two cars when looking at the Corolla?
I'm rethinking my decision and looking closely at the Matrix or Vibe, since I'd originally been considering the 2004 Sienna, and the Matrix/Vibe might just be what I would like since I can't afford the Sienna.
Any thoughts will be appreciated! Thanks.
... Greg
P.S. Thanks to the others on the info on the moonroofs and leather.
~alpha
They did have to replace a couple of thousand of them though.
alpha is right above: corolla's acceleration is noticeably faster than Matrix's.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Having driven both quite a bit, I do not think the Matrix is noticeably noisier than corolla during high-rev acceleration, but both ARE noisy during those moments. Matrix is noticeably slower at most speeds.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
BTW does the Matrix/Vibe have the sulphur smell problem as well?
Has anyone who has had the sulphur smell in the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe been able to get rid of it totally by switching gas?
~alpha
A whopping 30% of the overall score is based on Price - "a simple calculation" based on the vehicle with the lowest sticker. Edmunds is doing us a real service by looking at stickers and telling us there are difference. For goodness' sake, you at least think they use THIER OWN TOOL- True Cost to Own, especially in this vehicle class! Bottom rung auto journalism. No seriously, any Tom, Dick, or Harry could come in off the street and write down a sticker price.
I have a Sentra 2.5LE- it was absolutely the best car FOR ME. NO WAY THOUGH would I pick it over a Corolla if it were my parents, relatives, or female friends. These are economy cars, not sports cars, and should be evaluated as such. Even notoriously hot rodders like Car and Driver can see the Corollas values- its not pretending to be anything it isnt.
~alpha
so I read the Edmunds' review with fascination. certainly, corolla's clutch is more deliberate than civic's or Mazda's but is smooth and progressive; the shifter on a corolla, too, is more deliberate and damped but is still very accurate; the steering is vague but does not kick back or feels sloppy. I find my corolla quite entertaining in a small car way when I want to. other times when I would rather think about other things or not think at all, the corolla becomes a perfect, silent convenience that draws absolutely no attention to itself. so for Edmunds' to award a civic 58 (out of 100) more points over a corolla seems rather out of whack. I couldn't even find scores for ride, noise and vibration anywhere within the evaluation criteria. even the car and driver magazine rated a corolla better than a civic.
Comments?
You're joking right? No, I guess not since you have posted the same comment in a number of Toyota discussions.
~alpha
;-)
These really are 'apples and oranges' cars they picked for the comparison. I mean, they have an Elantra with NO options compared to fully loaded Proteges, Civics and Corollas. Any wonder they rave about the price of the Elantra? Then they pick the Sentra with the 165-hp engine and marvel over its acceleration. Well, duh. Why didn't they get a GXE instead? There are other examples, but you get the idea. I know it's next to impossible to pick very similar cars, but this is a bit over the top.
I think comparison tests should have a more strict set of parameters, e.g., all cars must have automatic transmission, power this and that and the base engine, OR all cars must have an MSRP between $16-17k, OR if you put XYZ in these cars, this is what you end up with. Something, anything, to 'level the playing field'.
As an aside, it seems like they'd have to go out of their way to find a Corolla that costs almost $18k, most I see are $15-17k. Personally, I think the best value is to get an LE with a stick and almost no options.
But why rely on other people’s comparisons? Several comparison tools are available to anybody. I started by comparing the Saturn Ion to comporable sedans: reviewing side-by-side specs and reading reviews written by car owners and critics. This is how I found the Corolla. It’s closest comparison seems to be the Civic (but that’s a different discussion board).
The point is, we are all equiped with the tools to become informed ourselves, so we don’t need to rely on others to be informed for us. Afterall, some people place higher value on fuel economy, some on safety, and others place the greatest importance on the cosmetics of a tail pipe. Few critics are going to value the same thing you do. Everybody values something different and everybody has different needs; that’s why there are so many different vehicles. The last thing that I want is for everybody else to be driving a Corolla too!
I have noticed that tailpipe thing on many Toyotas, but cannot imagine even remotely putting as much emphasis on it as the poster above.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
~alpha
~alpha
Those two features are also available on the LX equipped Civic which is nearly the same price. In fact all of Honda Canadian vehicles have immobilizers.