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2) At times, after turning on the engine, most of the electronic gear in the car didn't work (power windows etc). Turning the car off and on again solved the problem. Any ideas on cause and the cost to fix?
How can you simultaneously condemn Consumer Reports for a narrow sample base (numbering in the hundreds of thousands of members) and say that an even smaller base of consumers (your neighbors and friends) could possibly instill more confidence?
Unless you have a significantly above average number of friends and neighbors, it is that anecdotal evidence that's useless as a prediction of reliability or chances of buying a lemon, not the data published by Consumer Reports (or J.D. Power, or any other organization that uses a sample base larger than the average person's friends or neighbors).
That said, a neighbor just got a 2001 Dodge Caravan - it is far better built than anything I'd seen with that nameplate in the past. Daimler's influence is turning out to be a positive one - at least fit and finish wise. Still suspect is the sub-par automatic transaxle and electrical system for which these vans have been known for over a dozen years - it remains to be seen whether Daimler helped Chrysler figure out how to design an electrical system or finally fix the problems with the faulty powertrains.
Having had three Chrysler vans so far, the 2001 has been the best in terms of reliability and fit and finish
My 1988 Grand Voyager LE was awful until I found a good non-Chrysler mechanic. It had a myriad of electrical problems, but luckily no transmission problems, but that may be because the 4-speed auto didn't come out till '89 I believe.
I paid $20,300 for the '88 Grand Voyager LE, but spent $11,200 over the eight years we owned it in repairs that my local Chrysler dealer said I "had to have done." The Chrysler guys would always say somehting like, "Yeah, sorry, we can't really let you out of here knowing you need new brakes, shocks, etc."
It was at least $500 dollars every time we'd walk out of there even if we only brought it in for an oil change. Luckily, in the vans last three years, we found a good regular mechanic, and the $500 dollar maintenance bills stopped. Hmmmm, I wonder why.....
The 1996 Town & Country LXi was good, but it did rattle in certian places, and the rear quarter windows came unglued, so the '96 was reliable, but had its share of quality issues, but at least those didn't cost anything, because by the time the warranty was up, all those little problems had been fixed. Also no transmission woes like three of my other fiends had on their '94 and '96 vans.
And now the 2001 has had ZERO problems. It's been great, and the improvement in quality and luxury for that matter has been amazing.
I hope Chrysler has gotten its act together, but only time will tell I guess. I've also learned it doesn't pay to drive a Chrysler till it dies after my experience with my '88. Now driving my Toyota or my son's Honda till they die are totally different stories....
I currently own a '95 Chrysler Cirrus and I have had a similar (not sure that it is the same) electrical experience. On a couple of occasions I have started my car and found that none of the auxiliary electrical systems worked. I first noticed it because the steering effort is increased (this car has electronic variable assist power steering). Upon turning off the car and starting it again everything worked fine.
To get to the point, I have found that it is not an electrical problem, it is the ignition switch. Occasionally, the switch will not return all the way back to the run position from the start position. In the start position all of the auxiliary systems are overridden to route power to the starter. When the switch doesn't return fully the power is not restored to the rest of the cars systems. It is difficult to just bump the key back to the run position without killing the engine so I have found that the safest thing to do is stop the car and reboot.
I hope this has been helpful.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed this behavior? I almost cancelled the appointment because it is such a minor thing, but I'm going to have them check the brakes and adjust the headlights also.
Otherwise, I can't find too much to complain about on this van: the headlights aren't as good as my wife's '96 Subaru, the horn button is hard to find, and retained power windows would be nice.
Plus in 1990-1993 when the major problems were happening, what minivans were there? Ford Aerostar? Ummmm, I don't think so. Chrysler was the only minivan to even really consider for us. And the Japanese vans were also too small and weird looking. (Mazda MPV, Toyota Previa, etc..)
Once I started taking my van to an independent mechanic, the problems stopped. The van was reliable again, except for the one electrical problem that even my mechanic couldn't fix.
Something in the inside of the car was draining the battery, so if you didn't drive the car for more than a day and half, it wouldn't start.
After 8 years, Chrysler nor my mechanic could find where the electrical leak was. I felt bad for the dealer we traded it into. Boy, were they in for a surprise whenever they tried to start it up for a test drive.
ANYWAY, the 1996 Town & Country was not unreliable at all. Mechanically and electrically it was prefect other than the phantom windshield wipers that we had fixed. All I stated was that it had its share of rattles and the back windows came unglued from its pusher that pushes the power rear quarter windows open. Nothing major, and after the first year, we had had all the rattles and quality issues fixed. Never once did I feel it was going to strand us or break down. While it had some first model year quality issues, it was still VERY reliable over the 4 1/2 years of ownership.
As for being worried, I guess maybe a little, but only because I'm still waiting for my transmission to fail and all my electrical things to go haywire like many of my friend's have had with their vans.
But after two VERY reliable vans and the one "misunderstood" van that was fine once we got it way from the Chrysler service department, I won't at all be hesitant to buy another one 3-4 years down the road.
Another thing I've come accustomed to is the luxury and the style. I don't get the people who say minivans are supposed to look boring and boxy, but I like the sleek and rounded look of my old '96 and now '01. The triple-zone digital auto air, heated seats, memory seats, memory mirrors, memory radio presets, removable consol, homelink, power doors, liftgate, etc., can't hurt my decision to buy another one either...
1988 Grand Voyager LE - traded in at 84,300 miles after 8 years
1996 Town & Country LXi - traded in at 37,900 miles after 4 1/2 years
2001 Town & Country Limited - 9,200 miles and perfect
1. CR covers 200 and some models with over 500,000 survey reports per annum.
2. An alternative reliability source (which I've previously suggested to Carleton) is the Edmunds used car reliability ratings which are quite similar to CR in terms of the CC vans vs Honda Accord (which Carleton wants to compare for the sake of arguing against CR).
3. I bought a '95 Caravan in Dec '98 after reviewing CR in some detail and found one critical article in Feb '91 regarding high failure rates of the 4 speed transmission introduced in '89. To say "CR has trashed DC minivans for years" is a gross exaggeration. DC minivans have been rated in the top three in the April Auto issue of CR for the past 10 years.
V-6 that had the similar symptoms. When the engine was first started (cold) and placed in Drive or Reverse there was a shuddering or marble sounding rattling coming from the engine compartment. I was going crazy trying to figure it out. I finally took it to the Chrysler Dealer Service. It was diagnosed as a bad Serpentine Belt Tensioner. The Tensioner was replaced along with the serpentine belt. Problem solved!
jft26, As far as the tensioner goes, I wonder why it causes shuddering when it's cold. In any event, if that's the problem, I hope my warranty with GE will cover it. I've wondered how good this warranty is. I suppose they wouldn't cover the belt,if it needs replacement.
It didn't come with an owner's manual (yet) so can someone tell me how to turn the fog lamps on. I can't see a switch or anything anywhere for it.. ???
The lights are in the bumper, and arn't turn signal lights, so i am assuming there fog lamps.
Also, how do you adjust the sensitivity on the automatic headlights.
thanks.....
It was a good idea, i gave it a try, but it dosn't work. My stalk dosn't pull out. You can only press it in, and that's to spray water on the winshield...
How do they work on caravan ????? Are they really fog lamps or just for show ?
thanks...
thegrog3@hotmail.com
You turn the dial-type knob right to either the "On" position or if you have it, the "Auto" position.
In either setting you then pull out the knob to activate the fog lights.
This was how it was on my '96 and is the same for my '01 van. Hope this helps!
There is a a dial type knob to the left of the steering wheel on the dashboard near the driver's door that controls the headlights and fog lights. Next to that is the interior light dimmer switch.
Hope this helps!
Anyway, this comment I told you all is a secret.
thanks for your help.
Yeah, you have to pull the switch out on the dashboard.
I'm glad i have fog lights, and there not just parking lights or something.
Is it just me, or did any of you notice even with the low beams and fog lights on, you can't see much at night.
Can we replace them with better bulbs or something. How about those blue/white ones ? hehe.
Also, has anyone replaced the bulbs in the fog lamps to a different color ?
thanks..........
I've had three and know the ups and downs of the Chrysler Corporation. I've stuck by them throughout the 14 years we've owned their products, but it's be stupid for me to say Chrysler produces completely reliable vans after my 1988 lemon, countless reports of bad reliability, 3 different families going through 4 Chrysler transmissions, Consumer Report's bad ratings up until 2000, and the poor resale.
While the three or four people on your block may have had good luck, as I have had with the '96 and '01, facts don't lie. The Chrysler vans (pre 2001) were less reliable. PERIOD We'll see how the 2001's turn out. I'm hoping they'll be better. I know mine is.
If Honda would come out with an Acura van, you bet I'd jump ship with Chrysler, just so I could have the dependably that my Toyota, my son's Honda, and my daughter's fabulous Volkswagen Jetta have brought us.
Chrysler has lured us with their luxury, but if I was only interested in a mid-model equipped van, I'd go for a Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey.
My 1988 Grand Voyager - $11,500 in dealer charges on a $20,800 van
My 1996 T&C - annoying rattles and quality issues
My 2001 T&C - perfect
Not many Honda Odyssey owners can say that. Especially those who have 1999 Odysseys. I wouldn't exactly call having to have my transmission replaced THREE times good reliability. If you read through the Odyssey problem forum it's littered with posts of people who have had transmission, break, and quality issues with their vans. As far as I can tell, the Odyssey doesn't exactly represent the great Honda engineering and quality I have heard about.
I'll continue to drive my trouble-free 2000 Town & Country LX and laugh at those who think buying a DC minivan automaticly means mechanical trouble. This is our second DC minivan and both have performed very nicely with ZERO problems.
-Adam
It is still unsure if Chrysler has fixed the problem with their 4-speed auto that has dated back to 1989, although post 1997 vans seem to be doing better.
I can't really vouge for the bad transmissions (thank goodness) since I had the 3 speed in the '88 Voyager, and the '96 T&C 4 speed only got up to 37,000 miles until I traded it in. Although, one of my friend's Chrysler only got to 22,000 miles until it was kaput, so I guess I'm just plain lucky (knock on wood).
I guess what I'm saying is, Chrysler has a very spotty past, although they seem to be much better. But Honda seemed to had fixed their transmission problems in one model year, where Chrysler had how many years to address the problem? Exactly. Plus the Ody has a new transmission now anyway.
But I've been one of the lucky ones, and I will continue to support Daimler-Chrysler. Other than my first Chrysler van, my 1996 and 2001 were and are mechanically perfect, with the 2001 also being quality perfect.
I'm not the only one who is in the niche that wants luxury and utility, because the LXi pre 1999 used to account for nearly 80% of the T&C sales. Now I'm not sure now what the figures are since with the demise of the Plymouth Voyager, Chrysler is now stacking rental lots with stripped base T&C's...something I DON'T agree with.
Anyway, until Honda comes out with an Acura van or Toyota ups its size and luxury content, I'm sticking with Chrysler. I've had good luck with them, and if you can believe, I LIKE the gizmos, gadgets, style, and utility.
That's great the some people think minivans should be modestly equipped with bad styling, but remember the days when SUV's were REAL trucks, and not luxury-like vehicles with such names as Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus gracing the hood?
For now, I'm going to take my automatic triple zone air over a folding magic seat, but maybe in a couple of years, Honda and Toyota will realize there are people like me who would be happy to buy from those brands if they added just a little more luxury. I'm guessing that day will eventually come, most likely in the new 2003 Sienna. Just a guess.
Now have 137,000 on replacement trans, and it still seems fine. I'm getting rid of it while it still drives good. It will likely be fine for years to come; not every single Mopar tranny is bad. But it sure seems like too many of them are. I sure wish they would get rid of that tranny, but they are still using it in the new vans today. Maybe it's better now, but I would not bet 25K to find out.
no one here has said that chryslers transmission have had a perfect or even good reliability history. not even dc van owners like myself.
however, there are many owners out there with dc minivans that have never experienced and serious mechanical problems, myself included. we have owned two of these vans and both performed flawlessly. not all odyssey owners can say that, even those who own 2000 and 2001 odyssey vans.
if you like boaring, boxy, blan cars...go with the odyssey. if you want a car that is fun to drive, looks good, has plenty of features and creature comforts, go with the dc minivans. the choice is up to the consumer and most still go with the dc minivans.
-adam
You shouldn't make a statement that you can't back up. Ask carlton1 or a few others who are always there doing what we are doing back in self defence. Yes we have problems too, but not nearly as many as you do. Sounds like the new Caravans are better than old, except for a couple of big ones, really big ones, like leaking gas, but only time will tell.
the three B's used to describe the odyssey...BOARING, BOXY, BLAN. I am quite happy with my perfectly reliable T&C. I have a reliable car that has some personality (yes, even tho its a van) and is fun to drive. too bad the odyssey owners have to live with the three B's.
-Adam
"Boaring" should be spelled "boring" (you got it right in one place, anyway). "Blan" should be "bland." Are you describing the DC vans? This is a DC vans problems board, isn't it? I know you are describing the Ody, just ribbing you. But you should know that there are thousands and thousands of intelligent, rational adults deciding every day to buy that boxy, boring Ody. I know, I am one of them. Let me tell you why. My 91 Ply G.Voyager, which I bought new, had the transmission fail before 60K. I was very careful with it, too, because I had heard of problems with them starting in '89. When I asked the service dept. about the problems with earlier models, they assured me many changes had been made and the unit was sound. Regular fluid changes, Mopar fluid ONLY. At 58K, it started dropping into 2nd gear at will. Sometimes it would never shift beyond 2nd. Chrysler replaced the trans under warranty. Now here it is, 10 years later, and DC is STILL using that trans. They say it's fixed. I am not going to be fooled twice. It is simply not as reliable as the average minivan tranny. That is a proven fact. As the 99 and newer ones get older, we'll see how the trend goes, but they will have to get the statistics from someone else. I won't be driving a DC. Other problems included paint peeling off, piston rings seized to pistons (chryco paid for that, too), AC compressor went out (and its big-time expensive), serptine belt tensioner keeps failing, can't keep it aligned, starter stopped, rattles, rattles, rattles. And that's the stuff I can think off off the top of my head.
As for the Ody, I know it isn't perfect. They had some trans trouble, I know. But I doubt you will see a discussion about it still going on 8 years from now. Honda tends to learn from their mistakes and work on making real corrections. I have seen it myself, and not just from Honda. Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, VW/Audi, do it, too. Even Chrysler learns and corrects, as proven by the newest vans. I drove one, and it drives great. It's quiet, smooth, refined, much better than my 91. I would buy it, except for the fact that they still have not replaced the trans, and I did not care for their attitude in the past. But no car, van or truck from any maker is bulletproof. Maybe you have one that is serving you well. That's great, more power to you. Nothing wrong with getting your money's worth. I suspect, however, some of it is attitude. If you like your vehicle, you will be less critical of it when something does break. If you don't like it, you will complain. Human nature. You could have two identical vehicles with exact repair records, and the guy who likes his will say it's mostly trouble-free, and the guy who doesn't like it will say it's a rolling junk heap. I have had 3 Accords. One of them gave me trouble. But I liked it anyway. What helped me like it in spite of the trouble was Honda's attitude toward correcting the trouble. They were not condescending and did not try to blame me, they just checked out the problem and fixed it. When the paint peeled off my Chrysler, I thought I was never going to get them to make it right. Somehow it must have been my fault, they implied, asking if I had ever run it through a high pressure car wash, if I park it in the garage, etc. They knew they had a problem, they were even fighting a lawsuit over it, and I get that?
So, I would not question people's judgement too harshly. Most here have spent the time to come to rational conclusions, even if they are not all the same conclusion. Enjoy your DC van. I'll enjoy my Ody when I get it.
Most people are here to either find solutions to problems with their vehicles or to find out what to expect from a certain vehicle. If you have something constructive to add please do so.