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sept. of 2000) but it only has 29,000 miles. Anyway, I said go ahead and do it since I was there and had to leave the car anyway. Shouldn't these flushes be covered under the maintenance plan? Also, they want about $150 to do both the radiator and the brakes- that sounds awfully high to me- or maybe it's just welcome to the wonderful world of BMW maintenance costs. Or now that I think about it is the maintenanc only for 36 months on a 2000 model and that's why they told me it wasn't due for the flushes till Feb. of 04 so it would no longer be covered??
This means that your car should have had a brake fluid change under the maintenance program in Feb 2002. You should check your maintenance records to make sure that this was done.
Good luck
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I haven't been on since 17-Jul, but that doesn’t mean that I haven't been wondering about how y'all have been doing. ;-)
So, what drove me to post? Well, the story goes like this; I was heading home from a field trip with my son’s fourth grade class, and I pulled into a local gas station, right behind another black E39 530i, SP complete with the same TireRack winter tire wheels as mine. As we got out to start pumping gas I saw him looking at my car and I said to him, “Nice ride!”
He laughed and said, “Thanks. How long have you had yours?”
To which I responded, “My wife and I picked it up through the ED program in April 2002.”
With that comment, I saw a flash of recognition cross his face and he asked, “You didn’t perhaps used to post on Edmunds under the name of ‘shipo’ did you?”
“Yup.”
“Nice to meet you, I’m ‘Chrism123’ ”
So there you have it, us Edmunds Town Hall types are everywhere, even up here in New Hampshire where I now know of at least two others. ;-)
Well, gotta go, I’ll endeavor to check in more often.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Might be worth the wait, if you're into more gadgets.
Your local BMW dealer and BMW NA's web site have information on the CPO program. Check out the details. (Yes, it isn't quite as extensive as the original b-to-b warranty, but then pretty much no extended warranty offered by any party is, either. But at least you know the company, BMW, will be around and that they will honor their own warranty at all their dealerships, with no payment issues.)
You might check out the latest issue (12/03) of Roundel magazine. Read the letters section, p.7. One letter, by a woman in MD, is titled by the editor, "I sure wish mine was CPO". The automatic transmission in her '00 323ia went out at 65,000 miles. She paid $3,000 to repair. Editor titles another letter, "CPO is a real value." Man in WA bought a '99 328i CPO. His $1,300 sunroof repair cost him $50 (the deductible).
The CPO warranty on my '98 540i6 paid for itself. Peace of mind and I didn't pay much to repair or replace problematic electrical and other issues (e.g., dash LCD for the computer, airbag sensor wiring harness, etc). A huge reason I traded her in was because the CPO warranty was getting ready to expire. I wasn't willing to absorb the risk of future expensive repairs.
Actually, in rereading that post, it says the information comes from the GM of a BMW dealership.
His point, BTW, was that's why ED is cheaper. BMW doesn't have to pay that money to the dealer on ED vehicles.
As for the price, I have seen references to $1500 over ED invoice. For a 545i, how does that compare to the listed ED price of $50,500 ($54,300 MSRP)?
/FCM
Would appreciate if anyone has the ED invoice/wholesale price for the 545 though.
/FCM
However, you can pretty much figure it out by taking the US invoice prices here on Edmunds and then further deduct about 90% of the difference between US and ED MSRP. In other words, the ED invoice price on the 545i would be about $3,420 less than the US invoice price (90% of $3,800 MSRP savings). As you can see, finding a dealer willing to discount the car to $1,500 over ED Invoice means that you end up with it at nearly $2,000 under US invoice, not including travel expenses.
I've noticed that even the E39 525 had a noticable amount of torque in 1st gear, which the E60 doesn't have. Of course, the 530 and 540 have a lot more torque in the E39 and E60 than the 525, but that's not the discussion here.
The salesrep told me that the differential gearing for the E60's is different from the E39 in the 525 and 530 series. Implied that the only way to get noticable low end torque with the 525 (and the 530) is with the sport package, which has different gearing. Has anyone done the test drives and research to have experience with torque of the 525/530 with and without the sport package? BTW, I know most wouldn't buy a 525 with sport, so maybe the difference is seen by those with the 530.
Thanks--
It looks like the X5 has about the same amount of room between the seat bottom in the back and the top of the headliner as the 530. I am having to "tilt" the car seat and place it in the base of my Acura TL because of the handle hitting the top of the headliner. I like to 530 better but am considering all options. Any suggestions?
Base Price Euro Delivery Wholesale Price Munich Pick Up: $33,260 $37,490 $45,955 $45,955
YMMV,
Jack
Thanks for the prices!
/FCM
A BMW dealer likely wouldn't get the holdback on ED since the buyer is getting the car direct from the manufacturer. The holdback is paid by the manufacturer for cars the dealer sells. (Not sure how BMW NA might or might not get involved in this transaction.) That is logical and a likely reason why many BMW dealers won't move on ED prices or aren't keen to go ED route for their sales.
Your public citation is:
"It's been pretty definitively answered by Jon Shafer and others: BMWNA gets substantially cut out of the picture. When you buy in the US, BMW NA holds back some of the money, about 7%, which it then pays dealers each month based on their CSI scores. If they score well, they get most of that money. If not, they get less (or none). If you buy ED, BMW NA doesn't get that holdback money and the dealers don't get any of it at the end of the month. THat's why you don't get to rate the dealer after an ED purchase. In the end, BMW AG gets the same amount either way.
(and it has nothing to do with duty, because duty on imported cars is only 2.5%, which is less than $1000--clearly not enough to cover the savings, even if the value of the used car were zero, which it's not)."
A rose by any other name -- holdback or CSI-indexed payments back to the dealer. But, I only have these posts to go on so I can't say I'm at all certain about any of this.
Still, it's the best explanation I've seen.
But CSI-related payments or incentives are controversal for dealers. Mfgrs would like to base more things on CSI numbers. Dealers resist, fearful of the more nebulous numbers. But we know the CSI-related numbers get used for some things. That is why dealers work hard to manipulate them. I've had pre-filled out cards before (with all the highest numbers checked off) or the dealership asks me in advance what I'm going to say, recommends saying the highest number, and asks if there is anything they can do to ensure I say the highest number.
I've read some press articles on CSI issues. Seen some published court cases. Most I remember was CSI-numbers attempting to be used to determine allocations of "hot" models, whether franchises are granted for new dealership, etc. Even here the dealers fight the mfgr. Then the fight is over their contract and the franchise law in the state.
Either this rep is not up on his tech data (what else is new?) or BMW is a little haphazard in disclosing data in their websites and catalogues. In any event, you ask interesting questions.
Differential gearing for the E60 525 with or without sport package is the same. Also, differential gearing in E39 525 and E60 525 is the same. Ditto for 530 on both counts.
Here's the difference as far as I can see. E39 sport packages have a "performance rear axle and torque converter". Apparently this does not appear again with E60 unless it was, for some reason, not disclosed in the BMW catalogues or websites. And it is curious why data on this "performance rear axle and torque converter" was not included in the E39 catalogue... no additional final drive ratio for sport package is listed or footnoted. Could have been an oversight. However I am sure one of the tech enthusiasts around here have looked into it and can provide details.
BTW, the sport package is just as satisfying on a 525 as it is on a 530. SP is about handling, not torque.
;-)
Leaving aside M5, E39 has three different engines. Three different transmissions. There are automatic and manual transmissions. Sometimes the final drive (differential) is different (e.g., between 525ia vs. 540i6). Sometimes individual gearing is different (e.g., between overdrive 5-speed automatics and non-overdrive 5-speed manuals).
The E39 540ia and 540ia Sport have different final drive (differential). The 540ia Sport Pkg gets the 3.15 final drive and other goodies. (Believe this is the final drive ratio for the M5, even with its 6-speed manual.) Don't believe this is true for the 525ia and 530ia with or without Sport Pkgs.
Would have thought they've give it more attention, though. Even if it's only a 525, it should deliver a better 1st gear torque than the average Honda....just kidding, purists out there...
You'll get a kick out of this: when I mentioned the odd torque profile to the rep, he started talking about "improved gas mileage". Now *that's* something I haven't heard before in the same breath as "BMW 5-series"...
It's very unlikely others can do that well, but they should be able to get the same car for $1.2-1.5K over invoice if they work at it. That's a far cry from $50K. The 525 and stock 530 handle equally well.
And while I respct the 530's 225 HP, I've driven both in the E39 and really couldn't tell enough difference to be worth $5-7K more. Actually, I'd spend $3K on the sport package before I'd buy the extra 50HP in the 530; but I'm sure I'm in the minority.
Best--
BTW, I drove a 2004 520i 6-SP in Germany back in Sept while in Karlsruhe. Had it for a full day in the Black Forest region of Western Germany... drove into France to visit Strasbourg and the surrounding countryside.
Loved the drive, but did not warm up to the new car's interior design. I much prefer my 2003. Can feel the positive results of the new technologies/features, just don't like to look at the result!
I find the rear 3/4 view the least appealing. Don't care for the "flat" dash - reminds me of a '50's GM car. Prefer the cockpit feel of the e39.
Hope I will warm to the new design and that BMW catches on to the perceived quality lapses in the interior. MB fought this battle with the 1st-edition of the latest S-Class and others - was a letdown for them. My CLK saw steady improvements from the 1998 introduction.
Will say that BMW certainly understands how to engineer a vehicle to drive like no other and is probably the most successful at distributing this trait across their car lines.
Hey, something about different strokes...
I ended up paying $3,000 below invoice because of it. I purchased mine in August. This is my second 5 series and I love the car!
bmwmrc -- I got an E60. My E39 was a 2001. Wonderful car, but coming off lease and frankly, owning a 5 is enough of a toy for me to want a new one every three years, rather than buy out the lease. I shop agressively because that's the way I always shop, but at the end of the day its not only about good economics, it's about what you like.
However, if you got $3K below invoice for the last production year of one of the best cars ever built, then you got an outstanding deal. I'll miss my E39, but time rolls on.
Enjoy--
1. Does BMW do anything special for you if you again lease a BMW after the first lease (better price, terms, etc.)?
2. I am currently about 1000 miles over the allowed mileage. How strict are they on the mileage requirement when you again lease a BMW?
3. Do you have any suggestions regarding how to better negotiate a new lease.
4. In your situation, if I may ask, what was the lease buy-out price on the e39? Was it below current market price?
5. On your e60, if I may ask, how long and how many miles is your lease and what is residual and money factor?
BMWFS doesn't, except they'll usually waive the security deposit. Now, the dealer may not "bump" the rate or "bump" it as much for a returning customer. BTW, BMWFS isn't as competitive at the moment as they usually are.
2. I am currently about 1000 miles over the allowed mileage. How strict are they on the mileage requirement when you again lease a BMW?
Between BMWFS and the dealer, they can make the miles "go away" if you buy or lease with them. As a hint to others, you pay $.20 for over miles, but you can purchase extra miles at $.16 up to 9 months before contract end. You can do it on-line and have it included in your next statement.
3. Do you have any suggestions regarding how to better negotiate a new lease.
Arm yourself with the rates that are currently available from BMWFS and some of the bigger leasing companies so you know if the dealer is giving you the rate without "bumping" it.
4. In your situation, if I may ask, what was the lease buy-out price on the e39? Was it below current market price?
BMWFS changes their residuals often to reflect the changing market. Some lease companies will negotiate the residual at lease end. The optimun time to do this seems to be in the last 45 days of the lease. You can find the wholesale, auction, trade-in price to get a realistic idea of what the leassor will get for your vehicle. If that number is more than a $1000 less than your residual and you want the car, add, say, $500 to it and make a firm offer to a manager of the leasing company.
5. On your e60, if I may ask, how long and how many miles is your lease and what is residual and money factor?
N/A
Happy Motoring,
Jack
2. Since I'm coming off my first lease and am below mileage, the only negotiating point was the marginal condition of my rear tires. Since I'll have bought or leased 3 BMW's at that point, I'll negotiate to get out of the cost of the tires, but have no experience to offer on how flexible BMWFS is.
3. Since a surprising number of people walk in with no knowledge, being able to speak comfortably about residuals (should be .62 of MSRP right now for the 5) and money factors (.00235), and particularly the imputed interest rate of the money factor, makes you 1000% better off than most. If you look around, there are calculators and board postings available to let you understand every one of the moving parts of a lease. There are a lot of moving parts. Sometimes you can negotiate them, often you cannot; but knowing what they do gives you a very strong negotiating position. If you can speak knowledgeably, you will make enormous progress very fast; the rep will cut through the usual BS rap and talk to you with respect. Also, there are a few services out on the Web that will offer competitive quotes to give you a few alternatives besides BMWFS. It hasn't been my experience that the rates for BMWFS can be moved, but others here have been somewhat successful. Since I couldn't move the lease terms, I decided to beat down the price of the car.
4. My experience was that BMWFS was not willing to grant a higher residual at end of lease, since the E39 was being replaced and it's current market residuals were unclear. That said, I'm going to take joatmon's advice and see what I can do with them. Never hurts to take a shot at it. BTW, I think pen101 and joatmon were adressing different questions. Joatmon was implying you could buy the car for a lower price from BMWFS, which is likely true. Pen was implying that you might get BMWFS to be forgiving on mileage, etc or to take it back at a higher price. IMHO: they might forgive some wear and tear, are less likely to forgive mileage and are very unlikely to take it back at a higher price than residual.
5. My residual was .62 and MF was .00235. I did 36mo/36K because it works for my use of the car. As I said above, the rep wasn't willing to move the BMWFS numbers, and by the time we were finished he was giving me a polite but less-than-sincere smile -- I doubt he wanted to do me any favors at that point.
Since you asked, pen101, let me offer a few thoughts, for what they're worth, on the experience. One thing about buying a car: since you do it many times in your life, investing the time now pays off down the road. And, frankly, its a lot of fun to match wits with an experienced rep. Be polite (unless someone misleads you or tries to bait and switch at the last minute, then start screaming). Use the phone to talk to several of the guys who handle the internet leads. They're used to the phone and know how to dicker with courtesy and respect. Ask a lot of knowledgeable questions. Keep a spreadsheet with the key points of your deal with each dealer. Don't commit to a deal until you're sure that you've got the best price, and rotate through your four dealers to do it. Allow a month, since time is on your side. Gently and courteously push on all the issues until you've got a deal that you believe is fair, then keep your word as you expect them to keep theirs. When you're ready to visit them, go over each of your points with them on the phone and make sure the deal terms are clear.
To all, if you've had experience with getting BMWFS to move lease terms on the '04 5 series, let the board know what and how. Could be interesting.
Pen101, hope the above helps. Right now, you should be able to get a 525 for around $1 -- 1.2K over invoice without too much trouble, maybe less if you're persistent. Good luck.
Happy holidays--
1. A financial institution (like BMWFS or Chase, etc.) offers a lease with a fixed residual and money factor and they are then "sold" to you by a dealer. The dealer may offer it to you marked up (called a "bump") or may offer it at the `offering rate. So, the negotiation is technically with the dealer.
2. At lease end, some leassors will negotiate, some won't. BMWFS has not usually negotiated much if at all on buyouts for less than residual. However, I understand that they may relax that policy a bit. It never hurst to ask. Another consideration is that the dealer may want your car, esp. if it can be CPOed. If the dealer sees a nice profit on reselling your rig, you may have certain things "forgiven"
3. Some people are better off buying, some better with leasing. Others could do either. Take my case for eample. I bought an X5 on Feb. 28th. I leased a 530i on April 22nd because the money factor was .0010 for a 36 month, 45k mile lease. I put down 9 extra security deposits making my effective money factor .0001. So putting $4050 in security deposits and paying about $8 a month in lease charges makes sense even if I plan on keeping it long term. Why would I buy with these conditions?
I recommend that anyone that doesn't have a clear need to either lease or buy that they analyze leasing vs. buying to see what's best for your situation at that time.
4. Probably the best advice I can give is to never "need" to buy a given car right now. A pro can smell it before you enter the lot. In buying new, there's always another exactly like it. Money factors change and things could get better. No need to rush. BTW, if you send an application to BMWFS, you're locked into a rate for 60 days I believe it is. If the rate gets better, you get the better rate. If the rate goes the other way, you keep the original rate when you applied. If you do it right, you get to pick the best of 3 months offerings.
Happy Motoring,
Jack
Can someone tell me how best to accomplish this with my insurance company as well as what year (e.g., 2001) the 5 Series upgraded to its current handling package.
Regardless, your two easiest options regarding the liquidation of your Saab are to have it repaired with the insurance money and then peddle it, or to sell it as is to a third party that is willing to pay you its damaged value (typically a small independent body shop that also has a small used car lot).
Regarding a used 5-Series, unless I'm mistaken, all E39s equipped with the Sport Package have very similar handling characteristics, assuming that is cars with similar engines (ie. 525i, 528i and 530i should be similar to each other and all of the V8 offerings should also be similar to each other). Div2?
Good luck, let us know what you do.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The original issuer and marketing company goes bankrupt and the reinsurance was limited. Reinsurer's liquidation proceeding are in the Cayman Islands.
http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/23098179.html