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Comments
My experience is you get what you can for a vehicle. Its the best thing about the free market approch. I looked at the 300C when it came out people were paying way over sticker! Same goes for the PT cruiser. Its all a matter of what the market will take. If the van isn't selling the price will drop FAST!!
from our experience honda is trying to sell a lot of prestige along with their van. we don't have a need to be pretentious. we pay cash for our cars & trucks.
I paid cash it makes it real easy. But Honda and prestige along with minivan. All the guys at work laugh at me for not going the large SUV route. Here's a common question:So Tom what did you finially buy(everyone knows I was looking for a new car)? Answer: Oh a Odyssey. Puzzled look :confuse: Isn't that a MInivan?? Answer: Yep. Reply: Well better you than me!!
When did driving a minivan become prestigious?
It hasn't but some Ody owners like to fantasize that they're driving a BMW or Mercedes (probably due to too much smoking and actual inhaling of something in the 60s and 70s!).
I know the dealers are independent of Honda, but I hated the buying process so much, I think if I get similar treatment again, I'm inclined to defect.
Honda, you listening?
It is your opinion that some on here think their Odyssey has snob appeal. I would rather think it shows a high level of automotive savvy. I have owned two GM, one Ford, one VW, one Dodge, one Nissan and now one Honda minivan. Without question the Honda is the best of all the ones I have owned. Granted I do not remember driving any of them more than about 75,000 miles, most less. Once again, my opinion.
My father was a traveling salesman for over 70 years and bought new cars every 2 -3 years. He was a GM man for many years but did have a Ford, a couple of Chryslers but since 1973 he has owned Mercedes. His current (and final M-B, as he is 93
And as far as Mile High Honda in Denver - obviously they are just a regular Honda dealership based upon the remarks on the forum. So much for Odyssey.
Now the real question is - do I spent 30k and hope for the Sienna to keep the value, or do I buy another Dodge for 16-20k and get rid of it in 2-3 years? Is there are any data regarding the cost of owning the vehicles (like average price per new vehicle minus trade in value devided by the number of years owned)?
When I was shopping for the Odyssey I dealt with another salesman who was quite thorough in explaining the features and benefits of the van. His sales approach was very low key.
Car buying should be a pleasurable experience no matter what the brand name.
Just another saleman being a saleman. I looked at all sorts of vehicles before we bought the Ody and agian before i bought my Subaru. The stuff that comes out of there mouths regardless of brand is amazing. Whats wierd is after 2 hours on the internet I usually knew more about the product then them!! And I didn't know much!!
because the odyssey is simply better than anything else and if you bought x y or z it be a stupid thing to do.
When I bought my 2001 Dodge Caravan the salesman said it was the MB of minivans LOL.
when we bought the civic i had a salesman tell me that i didn't want stick shift because i would have a hard time driving it because i was a woman.
Can ya keep a secret?? My wife drives stick better than me! Even with my background in farming(tractors) I drove a only automatic cars for 10 years and she drove stick since she was 15. That guy should be fired. Of course the automatic adds money to the deal so thats probably the dirtbags motive!
Ok I was looking for fleet sales for the DCX vans well I didn't find it but I did find the total fleet and lease sales of vehicles sold in the USA YTD Sept 2005. Fleet sales 25.4% and leases 16.7% so these 2 components make up over 42% of all Chrysler group sales so far this year. This means there are many cars coming off leases and out of fleets. If I was looking at a DCX I'd buy a 3 year old and get a REAL good deal.
link title
Look on page 15!! Boy I love investor relations. I'll go look at Honda and see if I can find that too!!
U.S. Lease percentage and U.S. Fleet percentage are mutually exclusive. They are listing the percentage of the TOTAL for each and are not cumulative. Some fleet sales are leased, others are not. Some leased vehicles are fleet, others are not. There is an overlap of vehicles that are both fleet and leased.
The term "resale value" is not only subjective but also highly misused. Fleet buyers...the major one's at least...rely on RVAP (Retained Value from Actual Price (paid)) in their purchasing decisions. The actual value of a used vehicle is dependent on many things, including local market variations.
While many claim that manufacturers discount a product because (paraphrasing) "they know what it's really worth" are usually trying to be offending, but in reality are sort of correct by accident.
Discounts really help US native manufacturers even the score on retained value since Toyota, Nissan, and especially Honda, don't discount from retail as much. Only if all manufacturers sold at full retail price in today's market would there be a huge advantage for the Nissan, Toyota, and Honda buyer. Of course, if everyone sold only at full retail we'd have a completely different used car market.
For example, when you traded the Nissan Titan that you had, did you think you got an exceptional price for it?
Regards,
Dusty
Ok looking at it again maybe a little but it says lease percent of US retail not fleet sales. They also say employee leases were moved from Fleet to US retail. So if fleet sales are separate 25.4 and leases are 17% of the US retail(74.6%)12.7% its still over 38% of all sales/leases.
I don't think that you have to wait 3 years. As I posted elsewhere, I have seen 2005 Grand Caravans with stow and go etc. under warranty at a Chrysler dealer posted for $12990. As far as I can tell the MSRP for these vehicle is about $28000. I say is, because they are still being sold new.
Yeah I see that! Finially started seeing the 8K off Dodge GC only the SE and about 7K on the base in the paper. And it was quite a few too. Like 5 and 6 at this price. Guess what they are 2005's. Cerritos dodge still has 18 2005's in stock. I really think its funny that like 2 months ago quite a few posters were saying gotta get the 2005 now cause they are almost sold out!!! Or they sold out EARLY!!:shades:
You should go to that dealership and try and buy a new one with stow-n-go for $13,000. See if they have one in stock to sell you.
1996 Odyssey (little wagon/van thing) - $6,035
1996 Voyager (Closest in size) - $1,225
With 87,000 miles, good conditions, base models. Big difference, ($4,810) after ten years; private party value. Kelley Blue Book
This brings up several issues.
1) I do not remotely believe most of the used car book values, whatever the source (Sorry Edmunds). Quite often they make me laugh. For example, I just purchased a new 2006 Odyssey EX-L at MSRP. While I was in this process, I priced a used 2005 Odyssey EX-L with 15,000 miles through various "book sources" and most listed about $1000-$2000 more than the brand new 2006 MSRP!
2) It is very difficult to determine what a new domestic vehicle is worth. If you go the the "Prices Paid" section of the Dodge Grand Caravan thread of Edmunds you will see this. Assume that a vehicle has an MSRP of $28K. Someone may have paid $28k and someone else may have paid $18K and anything in between. If you paid $18K, $5K depreciation over one year is not too bad. If you paid $28k, you would be steaming at 53% depreciation.
3) These vehicles are at a Chrysler dealer and state special purchase from Chrysler under factory warranty, so who knows what the original sales terms were? Lease, demo, rental?
4) This same dealer also has non Stow and go 2005 Grand Caravans for $11,990, 2005 Durango SLT 4x4's, leather, fully loaded for $17,990, and 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokees loaded for $15995, all purchased from Chrysler under warranty.
Ok I did a search in zip code 85001(25 mi radius)(Phoenix) in the leading online used car classified.
2005 Dodge GRAND CARAVAN not SWB.
133 listings
Average price 17,316
Lot of SE's about 10 less than 14K with less than 15K miles and these are from dealers!Lowest priced SXT is less than 17K of course these are asking prices!
2005 Honda Odyssey
5 listings
Average price 29,131.00
So I was like thats allot of vehicles.
Then I went country wide and guess what between the Dodge grand caravan and the Caravan there are 10K used listing for 2005's in the country.
For the Honda Odyssey there are 227 total! man I thought these things were so bad people were leaving them by the side of the road.
The sales for the caravan(SWB + LWB)207K and the Odyssey are 158K for 2005 YTD November. But look how flooded the used market already is!!
Hey I found a SXT with 27K miles on it at Hampton Dodge in Elmira they are asking less than 17K for it(ok it is Gold LOL but I think it looks sharp)!! They also are offering some holiday cash and you could probably get it for under 16K because your paying cash!!
The Caravan will end up going to the auction because we don't want to see it sit for two months.
YOUZ GOTS TO BE KIDDING?
From what I have read about the 96' Ody it was small and underpowered. Bigger is better in todays world of minivans.
Why would someone pay 6k for a van 10 years old?
They were smaller than today's Odysseys and they had 4 cylinder engines that did just fine in them.
They have a very loyal following and they get snapped up as fast as we get them in stock. They are hard to come by because people tend to hang on to them or sell them on their own to friends and family.
Your right, Isell.
A social worker we know got a similar 1996 Ody in mint condition with 90K miles for about $9K a few months ago. I saw it and it is immaculate inside and out. She says that her husband, who is into cars, is confident that she can make it go 300+K miles.
YOUZ GOTS TO BE KIDDING?
From what I have read about the 96' Ody it was small and underpowered. Bigger is better in todays world of minivans.
Why would someone pay 6k for a van 10 years old?
The original Odyssey had the Accord engine in it, and weighed only as much as the Accord + 400 pounds. I drive my Accord with 4 people aboard and can't tell much of a difference, so I would think it would be perfectly adequate in daily driving, and certainly adequate for 1996.
Maybe we should remember that in 1995 when the Odyssey came out, the Voyager had a 100 horsepower 4-cyl, weighed more than the Odyssey, and used a 3-speed tranny! The three-speed carried on even in the updated 96-00 models!
Really was it a 357 or a 44magnum that got you?? :P
As far as substance....it's always lacking on here!!!! Honda lovers making baseless comments about rust, or quality, or lack of technology.
You know that rust thing is a little old that came from 1 guy and all the rest of the people on here told him it's not like it matters.
Here's my reply to him
have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and I am amazed at what people are worried about. Surface rust on engine parts that will never amount to anything in the life of the vehicle.
Socal awd
It sure is wierd. This guy just dosen't like the way it looks I've put like 250K(3 different cars) on the 3.3L with no issues.
omments how DCX is using same engine from 10-15 years ago, when that is sooo far from the truth. I know for a fact in those years DCX went thru 3 generations of engine control units to improve emissions, driveability and performance. Ohhh maybe the rusty iron blocks are similar...but I doubt you could swap many components between current 3.8s with engines built 10 years ago.
I haven't tried but maybe a DCX mechanic can tell us!!
f course, people experiencing identical problems with their Odys in the "problem area" is not substantial is it??? Or 4 recalls are not substantial? Or problems carrying over from 2005 to 2006 Odys i.e.. wind noise! are not substantial? Let's ignore that these are from actual Honda Owners - NOT DCX owners bashing Honda.
Nope it all valid but since there like 100 times more people on here posting their buying experience wouldn't you think you'd get allot more posting problems? As for the recalls really not that big of a deal. only about half the cars wre involved. I've had some on every car I've bought. Didn't make me feel bad. Now if you state you have wind noise or a gap in your glove box dose it mean your bashing the product. NO it just means your stateing whats wrong! It is really all you got but I think its wierd that alot of the posts are from non Honda guys. While any post in the DCX problem forum that bad is hey thats gotta be a Honda guy!
But a few personal experiences or personal opinion from Ody owners (former DCX owners) bashing DCX are substantial huh? Comments ranging from "cheap interior", "uncomfortable seats", "wheezing engine", "coarse engine", "always at dealer", "bad performance".....just weird how I never hear DCX owners complaining themselves about these atrocious problems???
I owned the DCX for over 4 years it had recalls/plenty of service trips where I saw lots of other Dodges being worked on and I disliked the seat as does Hans. The engine was rough and the transmission seemed mismatched for it!! My gas mileage was low and the Radio went out. There's more but I don't want to bore you with what a DCX owner has to say!!
Here's a few from the DGC review on this site in the suggested improvement I'll just got over the first 20 posts!
Poor MPG
eview: I drive 90% highway and the best MPG i have averaged is 22 MPG. Do not buy this van if you want 26 MPG. It does not exist.
Suggested Improvements: I think this van is much noiser than our 2004 Dodge Grand Caravan.
Suggested Improvements: Back hatch is difficult to close. Should be automated as a standard item, Or assisted to reduce stress during closing.
Suggested Improvements: Backlighting on switches, more storage nooks, and iPod connection
Suggested Improvements: Attention to detail. Vehicle has an annoying squeak. Interior materials could be of better quality, but is much better than our old 2000 DGC
Suggested Improvements: Design a driver and dassenger seat that accomodates and supports the back. Lower the adjustment for the shoulder strap of the seat belt. The alarm for the seat belts is annoying, since they do not fit properly.
Suggested Improvements: Gas mileage
Suggested Improvements: Fool proof those sliding doors. My 8 year old was sitting by the door when it engaged!
uggested Improvements: Make the power passenger seat adjust up and down. It sits very high. I'm 6'0 and have about an 1 in from the roof. Improve the sunroof. When opened fully at about 30 mph it kills your ears. Its a big roof so leaving about a half in form full still looks normal.
Suggested Improvements: Pay more attention to fit and finish both interior and exterior.
Why would someone pay 6k for a van 10 years old?
From a leading online classified only 79 1996 Odyssey for sale country wide Average price $6200.00
Dodge Caravan 222 countrywide average price $3600.00
Now for the 1999 model I'll compare it to the DGC.
Honda Average price 10,415.00
Dodge Grand Caravan Average price 6845.00
thats for a car that could be 8 years old!!
In HP, maybe, but not in eagerness and fun to rev and drive energetically.
I did manage to get a few Pacificas in substitute for the DGC rentals. One was fully loaded with leather and all the toys. That 3.5 cannot be compared with the Ody's 3.5. It cruises fine at 70+mph, but try hitting the pedal to metal then to get its response. Like its other cousins, it kicks up a racket and sounds thrashy when pushed compared to the sweet melodic sound of the Ody's 3.5
Low Price $5,995 (113,000 miles)
High Price $8,450 (129,000 miles EX)
I guess Honda may respond then with the Ody having the 3.5 from the RL that is rated close to 300 HP. Stay tuned...
Oh boy you used the word wheezing! I thnk someones gonna be unhappy!! :mad:
Oh boy you used the word wheezing! I thnk someones gonna be unhappy!!
Just my opinion. I didn't say anyone was wheezing, just an engine. it shouldnt be personal, people!
Both vans have leather, DVD player, power rear doors, etc.. I really like the stow-and-go seats in the GC and consider them a definite plus over the ODY but the power lift gate doesn't really do anything for me (if you can get the key out to push the button, you can just as easily lift the gate yourself).
In pricing both vehicles, I figure I can get a GC SXT SE for about $25K (sticker = $31,590) including rebates and some haggling. I figure an ODY l-DVD will cost about $30K with no rebates and some haggling.
I plan on keeping this vehicle for at least 10 years and putting a little over 100,000 miles on it. At that point I don't think the better resale value of the ODY will make up for the $5k initial price premium.
So I am left with trying to decide if the ODY is worth $5k more than the GC to me. I realize everyone's personal balance between price/features/reliability/resale will be different but so far I am leaning towards the GC. What do you think?
Ok the main things I considered when buying the Odyssey were the VSC and the standard side airbags and in my opinion more secure handling. The crash tests are very good too. After 10 years you will get back maybe 2-3K. Now in the mean time if you finance you have to pay interest on the money too. Go drive both and see what you think! I got my EX-L w/RES for well under 30K. The reliability is probably a push. By all means the DGC is a reliable and safe van, and there are worse things you could buy!! The VSC is a great feature go to NHSTA and search stability control it looks very promising for reducing/avoiding accidents.
Glad you asked. In your second sentence you say you have always been a Honda fan. So,unless you "need" the stow-n-go seating I would go with the Ody. Since you are planning on keeping it 10 years, inital price should take second or third row seating to which van you like the best. You say you have no doubts the Honda is the better van.
So, "YO VINNY... BUY THE ODY!"
I opened the hood to see what was in there.
AGREED!
If you want JUST a minivan at a cheap price, I would recommend the DGC based on price. If like many others and I, you demand better mechanical performance/prowness (handling, acceleration, road feel/connectedness, etc), fun to drive, safety in rapid overtaking/merging, energetic driving, refined engine that loves to rev melodically and not sound thrashy, there are better choices. For many others and I, the Ody is the best choice. I prefer higher performance in all of my family vehicles and buy them as such. These include the Ody, CTS-V, Maxima, Ridgeline, SL500, BMW550i, and the now trusty 10 yr old Continental with the 32V DOHC V8
As quoted in the past by our host, Edmunds.com, Ody is the "BMW of minivans" and the Sienna is the "Lexus of minivans". To be clear, we are talking the minivan category (apple to apple comparo).