Still not sure of the purpose/function of the end pieces of both front and rear bumpers, commonly referred to in this forum as "bumperettes". Mine, particularly the front ones, seem to be a magnet for dirt/grime. Visualizing them off, the asthetics would seem pleasing. As with anything, it's probably a matter of personal preference/opinion, but would love to hear what you guys/gals have to say. Keep 'em, or lose 'em?
By the way...just ordered the Cobra 75 WX ST CB radio based on favorable comments reviewed here. I also just placed 30" "WRANGLER" letters (metallic silver) on each side of my hood, and looks really sharp. I believe I'll need to remove the 1" "wrangler" letters on the sides of the tub to eliminate the redundency.
Get rid of those sissy plastic jugs on the ends of your bumpers! Your Jeep must be very embarrassed going around with those things still on.
Seriously, they are easy to take off, and I think a Jeep looks a lot "tougher" without them. You can take them off and see how your Jeep looks without them, and then you can always put them back on, if you prefer to have them on there.
It is VERY common for people to take those things off, especially on the front bumper.
I live in L.A. and ended up going to San Diego for my Wrangler. (I'm assuming your "LA" is Los Angeles and not Louisiana). After visiting lots and searching online, I ended up faxing ten dealerships my exact specifications with no wiggle room. Indicated that they might have to special order the Jeep (an option which has been previously discussed in this group many times). I sent the fax to dealership fleet managers and waited for the bidding wars to begin. Only two dealerships responded, but that's all I needed and they didn't know how many they were competing against. San Diego came back with $100.00 over invoice. In exchange for not having to talk/haggle with anyone, I considered that a steal. Made two trips to San Diego. One to finalize the deal, and one to pick up my Wrangler.
If you really need an '05, I don't think that special ordering is an option. You can make a list of what you demand on the Jeep, what you'd like on the Jeep, and what you absolutely do not want on the Jeep. Then see if anyone gets close with their inventory, or through dealer swapping.
Well I will be living in Arizona and commuting to Phoenix every day. I don't PLAN on taking it offroading, but you never know. I think that the hard top would be good. I don't really need much storage space, or passenger space. The main models I'm looking at are the SE, X, and Sport. I'm trying to keep under a $25K budget. I'm really interested in the X model because I've "built it" and it was only around $22K for all the options that I wanted/needed.
I really love the Jeep Wrangler for 5 particular reasons:
1) The Expense Factor, great vehicle for the money 2) The convertible, living in Arizona, I get 320 days of sunshine a year 3) 4WD, I love to have this feature when it's raining, or slippery 4) The fun factor, can't beat the awesome style 5) Sit up higher than a car, I like to have a good view of the road
The Rubicon is a little bit more money than I want to spend, and The Unlimited is a little bit bigger of a vehicle than I need or want.
So if I could get some owner opinions or the SE, X and Sport that would be greatly appreciated.
You don't need a hardtop in Arizona. It's not much of a convertible with the hardtop option unless you leave it off all the time. It's not a quick thing putting it on and off and unless you have a place to tuck it away, it tends to remain on all the time. The new soft tops are pretty much as quiet as the hard top. Security is the only other reason to consider a hardtop and you can get lockable storage aftermarket for your Jeep. Get the full doors for a daily driver and you can pick up a pair of 2-piece aftermarket soft doors if you want.
SE, X and Sport are pretty much different option packages, so it's just a question of what you want and don't want from that list. The vehicle is the same. Except for the engine choice--you'll be wanting the 4.0L straight six. So scratch the SE.
I just want to make sure that when I'm driving down the 101 going 90 mph that the soft top won't blow off. I don't plan on having the top on so I guess it wouldn't be worth the extra garnd for a hardtop since I can't store it anywhere.
How long does it take to get the soft top on and off?
I think I'll have to test drive one Saturday and see what I like. Basically it's down to the X and Sport Package now. I was at a dealer a week ago and he gave me a nice brochure on the Wrangler and aftermarket options. I don't really need any aftermarket parts though. So keep the opinions rolling.
P.S. I already have the color picked out and I won't budge on that. I love that Patriot Blue, it looks really sharp.
You mentioned liking the wrangler for slippery conditions. Keep in mind the wranglers 4 wheel drive is an off road only system and should never be used on paved surfaces except possibly under heavy ice/snow conditions. Enjoy building your jeep!
I hope you were exaggerating when you mentioned driving 90 MPH in a Jeep. You probably were, but you really need to understand that you will not be driving a car. A Jeep does not stick to the road in corners or at high speeds like a car does.
The very things that make a Jeep so capable off road work against it in handling on the pavement at high speeds. Jeeps have a short wheel base, narrow track, and a high center of gravity. Those attributes are great off road, but not so desirable on the highway. A Jeep is safe, though, when it is driven like a Jeep. Just don't drive over 70 or 75 MPH and take it real easy in corners. The fun of driving a Jeep makes it worth the "sacrifice" of driving slower.
You are doing well to eliminate the SE from consideration, given all the highway driving you will do. The little four banger is fine around town and out on the trials, but it is NOT good for highway driving for long distances.
You should consider the gearing as well as the engine choice. You DON'T want 3.07 gears. If you ever want to put larger tires on the Jeep, the 3.07 gears will not allow decent acceleration. Also, if you go off road, the 3.07 gears won't give you the compression braking that you would want going down a very steep hill. Get the 3.73 gears!
I recommend a Sport with the AAS package. Do a search on "AAS" and you will see what it includes and why I say that everyone should get it.
Tom is right on. You won't enjoy the 4 cylinder engine in the SE when driving on the highway. Go with the X with 3.73 gears in the Dana 35, or even better, get the Sport with the Dana 44 axle option. In April, I bought the X with the 3.07 gears because I didn't know any better. Now I wish I would have gotten one with the Dana 44. I have a hard top that's been in storage since the week I bought it, so I doubt that you'll need a hard top in Arizona.
Oh, and you won't be driving 90 mph unless you're going down hill with a tail wind! Don't worry about the soft top blowing off. They're a lot tougher than you think.
And take those plastic bumperettes off of your front bumpers everyone!
the dealer's aftermarket options are lame. Go to Quadratec or 4wd.com and you will eventually find things you'll want, trust me. They are very good at parting you from your money.
If I were ordering another Wrangler? I'd get full doors, soft top, ABS, A/C, cruise, cloth seats, a dark interior color because my tan one looks filthy after 7 years, a speaker with a sub if they still have that option, tow hooks, that auto-dimming mirror looks nice, sentry key to make sure no one steals it, and if the option package that keeps the center console and tilt steering wheel.
Things that I picked up aftermarket because they are better than the factory ones and still would:
Husky floor liners are better than the factory mats. 30" BFG A/Ts tires are better than the factory Goodyears. Smittybuilt Sure-step Nerf bars are better than the factory steps:
A Bestop tire cover is a better fit and deal than the factory one and doesn't have that big redundant JEEP on it. I run an aftermarket soft top / safari top thingy (Rock Gear) but that's only in the summer, in the winter I run a factory hardtop. If I were ordering a new one I'd just get the factory soft top.
Well I think I've narrowed it down to the X with the 3.73 gears. I will be going around 80 mph (seriously) though on the 101 (8 lane major freeway). It's basically a straight to the 8 shot though from my home in Scottsdale to Phoenix. I'll get a quote this week and let everyone in on my progress.
I know that i could easily do 80 mph, I've seen it done by other drivers in their Wranglers.
As xscout said, the 4WD in Wranglers isn't intended for use on pavement; even wet pavement. Using 4WD on pavement can result in tricky handling and even mechanical damage. Its not to be confused with common all-wheel drive systems on many SUVs that respond when a wheel slips; they operate with a completely different principal.
Just my opinion, but I might rethink the 3.73 gears if you are going to do a lot of highway driving in excess of 70 mph. Knowing that my driving would be 95% + highway, I went with the 3.07 gears and am happy with that decision. At 70 mph, I turn about 2,000 rpm in 5th and am getting around 22 mpg on a 2004 X. Extrapolating to 80 mph and 3.73, you will be turning about 2,800 rpm with stock tires. Maximum torque comes at 3,200 rpm on the 4.0 L which you will be quite close to as well.
Tom, give us an opinion here regarding what (if any) highway driving mix you might see fitting the 3.07's better than 3.73's.
That's a good point, though if you go up from the stock 215s to 30" tires, then those RPMs will go back down to some extent. I have the 3.73 option and when I had the 215s on there I used to get 21 or 22 mpg. Once I moved up tire size I dropped down to about 19 or 20 mpg. And of course my odometer is off a bit.
Are you sure about the camshafts and gear teeth?.................................... I am concerned about long term quality. Although DCC seems to be fixing the problem, will the engine last.
Quite sure...........it's covered under recall E05 MAR 05 Campaign - Engine Oil Pump Drive Gear/Cam Replacement .
The 4.0 I6 is one of most reliable and long lasting engines that DC has made. Expect 150-200K plus, if properly serviced.
Hello starbucks, My job just took me from Phoenix to South Dakota. It was in Phoenix that the seed was planted for a wrangler after going to Sedona and off roading with my 4Runner. Seriously reconsider getting a wrangler completely outfitted for the road. After you discover all of the incredible off roading you can do in your awesome state of AZ you will be disappointed that you got a road wrangler. The gorgeous trails are endless!!! As far as those guys going 80 mph on the 101, it is a death wish :sick:. I know the 101 is fast, but it is not wrangler country :mad: . I guess I write this wishing I was still in AZ with my new Rubicon . Good luck with your shopping . gdh Just my 2 cents worth.
I might go offroading, but I don't need a Rubicon just for that. I think that the X will do just fine driving the trails of Sedona. Does anyone know how long it takes to put on and take off the soft top?
And also does anyone have any "fee's" that they know of that the dealership might try to tack on to screw me over?
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Check out Documentation Fees while waiting for responses in here. And if you focus on your out the door price, you won't have to negotiate all those fees and line items.
Tom, give us an opinion here regarding what (if any) highway driving mix you might see fitting the 3.07's better than 3.73's.
Guy:
Everything is a trade off. I find the 3.73 gearing to be fine for long trips. I could possibly realize one mile per gallon better gas mileage with 3.07s, but the extra acceleration and the better engine braking with the 3.73s means more to me than one mile per gallon, even at these current gas prices.
I have been off roading with more than one person who has the 3.07 gearing, and they are NOT happy campers. They have to use their brakes much more on steep downslopes than they would with 3.73 gearing. In other words, their "crawl speed" is too fast. It's not only on steep slopes that you want to go slow. When you are negotiating a tricky obstacle, you want to be able to go slow without feathering the clutch. The 3.73 gearing allows you to go quite a bit slower than does the 3.07 gearing.
So, the 3.73 gearing is better for off roading, gives better acceleration on the pavement, and allows the use of bigger tires without making the acceleration so sluggish.
The advantage of the 3.07 gearing would be a tiny bit of extra gas mileage.
Take your pic.
The way I see it, a Jeep is an off road capable vehicle, and I want it to be equipped in such a way as to enhance that capablity, not detract from it. That's just the old Tomster's two cents worth, though. Whatever floats your boat.
You're probably right on track regarding your needs and the X. Even an SE is trail capable as others have mentioned, but it would be scary at 80 mph (if it's even possible). I drove my '98 SE from OK along I-40 to NM last spring - enjoyed the trip but was at the mercy of headwinds and hills to keep at interstate speeds. Sometimes even close to interstate speeds! I think you also said youwanted an automatic? If so, just one more big reason to stay away from the SE!
For the record, gas here is $2.55; NM now is around $2.63-2.70. Saw as high as $2.90 at one NM station along I-40. But that place is always way high IMHO. BTW, NM regular is 86 octane - not 87.
Tom - good to see you back! Lots of newbies here who may require your guidance! (Can I have a good old-fashioned "YEEEEE_HAWWWWW!") :surprise:
I hate trying to negotiate prices with the car dealers, so I emailed a number of dealerships in the LA area, including one that I had no idea where they were. That dealership turned out to be the fastest to email me back a price (I had told them in my email exactly what I wanted, including color and options) that was $500 over invoice before rebates, what I thought was a fair price to pay (they also told me that there was only 1 in SoCal). I emailed them asking for the out-the-door price, which they provided broken down, and they weren't trying to gouge me with lots of extra fees.
Meanwhile, my husband wasn't sure about getting a soft top so we went to a different dealership to test drive one. He decided it was OK and then thought it would be easier to just buy it from that dealership (we didn't tell them that we had an offer from a different dealership). They told us what a special deal they were going to give us, and after talking for an hour came down to $800 higher. When I asked about out-the-door price, I couldn't pin them down, but they indicated that it would be around $200 more (that's some add-on!).
So the next day I emailed the first dealership and asked where they were. It was Buerge Jeep and they were located about 3 miles from work! We went in at lunch time and left a deposit for them to do the trade, then about an hour to do all the paperwork when it came in. Very easy, non-stress and a nice experience.
Have you had any luck finding a rear seat? I recently bought an '04 SE and am in the same boat. Beard and Mastercraft both make seats, however, they are still not as cheap as the 2002 seats.
I would first like to say that you all have been very helpful in deciding what I need. I found my life-line (as so to speak), my friend has a cousin that worked at a Ford Dealership last few years and I called him up. He gave me some great info on what dealers will try to stick you with. I've also read "Confessions of a Car Salesman" here and printed the story out. (Great bedside reading)
I know that I'm well prepared, and I won't be a sucker. I might have them custom build my Wrangler (it doesn't cost them anything extra, they just add it to their weekly delivery scedule), so I wouldn't need to pay extra for the Jeep of my dreams. After calculating everything, my price should be appx $22,700. I plan on getting a loan from the bank, so I won't have to pay the exorbient interest rates at the dealership. No extended warranty, I won't get suckered in there.
Thanks Everyone, and I'll be posting my feedback after I close the deal!!
Can anyone tell me since 31 x 10.5s will fit on a stock TJ or LJ with 15 x 8 wheels, won't 33" x 10.5s fit on the same vehicle with a true 2" suspension lift?
I will be putting this lift on my '05 Unlimited this weekend and am ready to replace those GS-As soon after. Hoping to go with 33" x 10.5 BFG MTs and it seems like they will fit (wheel well measurements etc.)
Most of the folks in the circles I roll with prefer the auto for off-road. It's less to worry about when you get into the more technical areas. We have one guy who has a stick, and he is really good - but he still stalls out sometimes depending on the rocks we are traversing.
I like it for city driving. It's not as great - mileage wise - on the freeway, but overall it works pretty well. Just my $0.02 ($0.01 after taxes).
31x10.5's will fit on the 15x8 factory wheels no problems. You will potentially have minor rubbing on the control arms (front) when turning at full lock. There is a cheap and easy fix for this - washers on the bump stops.
33x10.5 will fit with 2" of suspension lift, but don't count on being able to flex your suspension much. IF you are using factory backspaced wheels (Canyons, Ravines, etc) the backspacing becomes an issue, even with 33x10.5. For those wheels to work, you have to add wheel spacers (Spidertrax is the ONLY brand I'd use). OR you can get aftermarket wheels with about 4 to 4.5" of backspacing.
33x10.5 will be fine for onroad with a 2" lift. Again steering at full lock may cause rubbing. There are all kinds of writeups for this 2 minute mod.
Tire size is not always a direct correlation to the lift amount. Each Jeep is just a bit different. Your tires will be taller (width the same at 10.5), but as you flex, the top inside of your tire will go in more because of the taller height. Just a question of geometry. I put a 2.5" OME on mine and I'm only going up to 32x11.5 when my 30's wear out.
As for stick vs auto and offroading - personal preference. For rock crawling, many prefer the auto for ease and ability to concentrate. I personally prefer the manual with a hand throttle on the gear shift. Manuals tend to have a higher engine compression braking effect for hills and such. I crawl almost as slow as a Rubicon in my 4.11 geared manual transmission SE! I rarely need to use my brakes on the trail.
Thanks for the info - I feel a bit better about the engine - however, I did check the NHTSA site for the recall and the notice indicates that the cam sensor (oil pump drive) gear is the suspect part. Your posting back in June mentioned "a badly machined batch of camshafts" - is there 2 issues????
The oil pump drive gear mates with, and is driven from, a matching gear which is part of the camshaft. Both are replaced to make the fix, hence the title of the recall "Engine Oil Pump Drive Gear/Cam Replacement."
I think you're making more of this than you need to.
Mtngal: I concur completely via the e-mail route. It's especially fruitful for people who aren't adept negotiators. Being retired Air Force, I can debate and verbally beat down most salespersons, but why bother? When I bought my "X", I never once spoke to my (eventual) salesperson. I estimate we exchanged approximately 25 e-mails, each time my response being "you've got to be kidding, etc".
When I finally arrived...in person...to take delivery, my salesman introduced me to his colleages as "The E-Mail Guy".
Personally, I found it entertaining (hate to say it was likening it to a "game", but it was close to it!), to get his e-mail replies on my "requests".
Dealership Internet Sales Managers know full well that when they get one e-mail for quotes, potential customers are (if they're smart) sending out multiple requests to all other local dealers. Accordingly, they should understand they need to come back with their absolute, rock bottom price to lure you into their dealership. I've found that internet sales should eliminate any game playing between sales and customers. In my case, my salesperson didn't realize I was an old coot of 52, knowledgeable and "Edmunds-savvy", so he insisted, for a couple of e-mails, to play the old "I'm just not making any money on the deal as you've requested".
Finally, I just came back with my Edmunds' research, told him I was through with the back and forth, and to let's get serious. I could have ended that process early, but found it sort of fun.
I live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and we have one Jeep dealership here locally, and about 4 in Birmingham. All replied within 24 hours, but their bottom-line pricing varied by $500-$600...which surprised me a bit....
Well, I'm rambling, as I tend to do when I'm tired.....by the way...I must have missed an earlier post from you...what are you trading, and what are you trading for?
I absolutely agree with Mac here. The 4.0L is one of the most durable truck engines around, not just those produced by Chrysler. Neighbor across the street has 250K miles on a 93 JGC with it.
Just being a nervous Nellie and I figured you got information from somewhere other than the recall.
I don't want to buy a hidden problem.
I know how the oil pump drive system works - I just wanted to know if there actually is a case of bad machining of the camshaft and that's what damages the oil pump gear?
Sorry, you've lost me. What hidden problem??? The problem is anything but hidden.......there's a recall to fix it.........the details of the problem and it's fix are itemized in the specifics of the recall.
The reason for the problem and the means to fix it couldn't be less hidden!!!!!
If you really want something to worry about, go and have a look at the TSBs applicable to Wranglers (it's as long as your arm!). When you think about all the things that could possibly go wrong you won't even consider buying a Wrangler. The trouble is, every vehicle manufactured has the potential for a problem, not just Jeep, which kind of leaves you between a rock and a hard place.
Thank you to all who have given some feedback on auto vs manual. I guess I am regretting my manual lately. Jeep fever got the best of me when I bought my manual with little to chose from on the lot. Sincerely, gdh
The manual is a huge plus IMO. It has benefits of better engine braking and better control of shift points.
If you do rock crawling, then install a hand throttle (basically a bicycle shift lever that controls the throttle much like a gas pedal). This allows the use of the feet for clutch and brakes, and you can still do the gas by hand.
I have done some rocks with my manual SE, but didnt' have any problems. Yes, I've killed it a few times while with Tom at TB, but I think that was more a function of having a 4 cyl vs a 6 cyl.
I personally feel the manual is how a Jeep should be equipped.
I just sold my '98 XC70, and am shopping for a 2001-2003 Wrangler. Only looking at < 40,000 mile vehicles with manual trans. and 6 cyl. Not doing serious off-roading, but fishing, canoeing, and camping. Are there any major problems/hotspots/defects to be aware of while checking them out? I have a good mechanic to give it the once-over, but I'd like to know for myself. BTW, this is a great message board, very friendly and informative.
yeah, I love the manual too. The auto was a godawful 3-speed when I got mine so it wasn't even a question. Even with the new ones having overdrive, though, I'd still prefer the manual. I like how it crawls better and heaven knows I prefer it when driving on snow covered roads.
By my own admission, I am a newbie to Jeeps and serious off roading, I guess I was hearing a lot about the benefits of the autos lately. I feel better hearing from you guys on the manual. Thanks for your opinions. -gdh
Can someone tell me how to remove the black plastic cover/trim/bezel thing that surrounds the radio, center vents, etc. on a new Wrangler dash? I suspect I can just carefully pry it straight out from the dash since I cannot find any obvious fasteners. I am trying to route and conceal the wiring for my XM receiver and I don't want to break anything until I hit 1,000 miles. Help! Thanks!
There are two screws on top of the dash. Just unscrew those and pop the plastic cover off. Then slowly pull the center bezel foward. Be careful not to scratch the air bag cover, which is what I did when I did this the first time...
Air bag cover? In the center of the dash? Just want to make sure we are talking about the same trim piece. Are the screws behind (well, toward the hood) of the "cell phone catch-all depression" in the top of the trim piece? Thanks!
Can someone tell me how to remove the black plastic cover/trim/bezel thing that surrounds the radio, center vents, etc. on a new Wrangler dash?
First there is a long piece that runs next to the windshield, I think it is called the vent shield, it has a screw in it, take it out. Now you need to grab the edge nearest the windshield and roll it towards you. Now the center piece (the plastic around the center vents and the radio) is not hard to take off but it makes you think you are going to break something the first time you take it off. It is attached w/ 4 metal clips on the back so pull it out straight towards you, and pull very hard. A couple of the clips may come off w/ the cover thats o.k.
Now you can complete the task at hand.
Before you try and put the cover back on the vehicle take the clip or clips off the cover and place them back on the vehicle before you re-attach. If it doesn't go on easy pull it off make sure none of the clips came off and try again. Hope this helps.
P.S.
I would run to Lowes or Menards and buy some plastic ties so you can tie your xm cords to something, nothing looks worse that loose wire hanging from under your dash and could be a potential cost saver if you step on one of those loose cords.
Thanks to myboyblue and keats for the quick response! Probably should have spent another 3 minutes looking at it last night and I may have figured it out, but this board is such a great resource that I thought I would seek professional advice instead!
Yeah, we were talking about the same thing, but if you look next to the air bag cover--or the material that looks like the airbag material, I scratched that with one of the clips when I first pulled mine out. BTW, mine had two screws, not one...
Comments
Still not sure of the purpose/function of the end pieces of both front and rear bumpers, commonly referred to in this forum as "bumperettes". Mine, particularly the front ones, seem to be a magnet for dirt/grime. Visualizing them off, the asthetics would seem pleasing. As with anything, it's probably a matter of personal preference/opinion, but would love to hear what you guys/gals have to say. Keep 'em, or lose 'em?
By the way...just ordered the Cobra 75 WX ST CB radio based on favorable comments reviewed here. I also just placed 30" "WRANGLER" letters (metallic silver) on each side of my hood, and looks really sharp. I believe I'll need to remove the 1" "wrangler" letters on the sides of the tub to eliminate the redundency.
Appreciate any opinions on the "bumperettes".
Thanks!
Randy
Get rid of those sissy plastic jugs on the ends of your bumpers! Your Jeep must be very embarrassed going around with those things still on.
Seriously, they are easy to take off, and I think a Jeep looks a lot "tougher" without them. You can take them off and see how your Jeep looks without them, and then you can always put them back on, if you prefer to have them on there.
It is VERY common for people to take those things off, especially on the front bumper.
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tomster
-Paul
I live in L.A. and ended up going to San Diego for my Wrangler. (I'm assuming your "LA" is Los Angeles and not Louisiana). After visiting lots and searching online, I ended up faxing ten dealerships my exact specifications with no wiggle room. Indicated that they might have to special order the Jeep (an option which has been previously discussed in this group many times). I sent the fax to dealership fleet managers and waited for the bidding wars to begin. Only two dealerships responded, but that's all I needed and they didn't know how many they were competing against. San Diego came back with $100.00 over invoice. In exchange for not having to talk/haggle with anyone, I considered that a steal. Made two trips to San Diego. One to finalize the deal, and one to pick up my Wrangler.
If you really need an '05, I don't think that special ordering is an option. You can make a list of what you demand on the Jeep, what you'd like on the Jeep, and what you absolutely do not want on the Jeep. Then see if anyone gets close with their inventory, or through dealer swapping.
Good luck.
-Mike
I really love the Jeep Wrangler for 5 particular reasons:
1) The Expense Factor, great vehicle for the money
2) The convertible, living in Arizona, I get 320 days of sunshine a year
3) 4WD, I love to have this feature when it's raining, or slippery
4) The fun factor, can't beat the awesome style
5) Sit up higher than a car, I like to have a good view of the road
The Rubicon is a little bit more money than I want to spend, and The Unlimited is a little bit bigger of a vehicle than I need or want.
So if I could get some owner opinions or the SE, X and Sport that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Paul and Tomster for your input....I had no idea I was embarrassing my Jeep by keeping the "plastic jugs" on there......tonight...they're off!
Thanks!
Randy
SE, X and Sport are pretty much different option packages, so it's just a question of what you want and don't want from that list. The vehicle is the same. Except for the engine choice--you'll be wanting the 4.0L straight six. So scratch the SE.
How long does it take to get the soft top on and off?
I think I'll have to test drive one Saturday and see what I like. Basically it's down to the X and Sport Package now. I was at a dealer a week ago and he gave me a nice brochure on the Wrangler and aftermarket options. I don't really need any aftermarket parts though. So keep the opinions rolling.
P.S. I already have the color picked out and I won't budge on that. I love that Patriot Blue, it looks really sharp.
I hope you were exaggerating when you mentioned driving 90 MPH in a Jeep. You probably were, but you really need to understand that you will not be driving a car. A Jeep does not stick to the road in corners or at high speeds like a car does.
The very things that make a Jeep so capable off road work against it in handling on the pavement at high speeds. Jeeps have a short wheel base, narrow track, and a high center of gravity. Those attributes are great off road, but not so desirable on the highway. A Jeep is safe, though, when it is driven like a Jeep. Just don't drive over 70 or 75 MPH and take it real easy in corners. The fun of driving a Jeep makes it worth the "sacrifice" of driving slower.
You are doing well to eliminate the SE from consideration, given all the highway driving you will do. The little four banger is fine around town and out on the trials, but it is NOT good for highway driving for long distances.
You should consider the gearing as well as the engine choice. You DON'T want 3.07 gears. If you ever want to put larger tires on the Jeep, the 3.07 gears will not allow decent acceleration. Also, if you go off road, the 3.07 gears won't give you the compression braking that you would want going down a very steep hill. Get the 3.73 gears!
I recommend a Sport with the AAS package. Do a search on "AAS" and you will see what it includes and why I say that everyone should get it.
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tomster
Oh, and you won't be driving 90 mph unless you're going down hill with a tail wind! Don't worry about the soft top blowing off. They're a lot tougher than you think.
And take those plastic bumperettes off of your front bumpers everyone!
Mike C.
If I were ordering another Wrangler? I'd get full doors, soft top, ABS, A/C, cruise, cloth seats, a dark interior color because my tan one looks filthy after 7 years, a speaker with a sub if they still have that option, tow hooks, that auto-dimming mirror looks nice, sentry key to make sure no one steals it, and if the option package that keeps the center console and tilt steering wheel.
Things that I picked up aftermarket because they are better than the factory ones and still would:
Husky floor liners are better than the factory mats. 30" BFG A/Ts tires are better than the factory Goodyears. Smittybuilt Sure-step Nerf bars are better than the factory steps:
A Bestop tire cover is a better fit and deal than the factory one and doesn't have that big redundant JEEP on it. I run an aftermarket soft top / safari top thingy (Rock Gear) but that's only in the summer, in the winter I run a factory hardtop. If I were ordering a new one I'd just get the factory soft top.
And to heck with you guys, I like my bumperettes.
-Paul
I know that i could easily do 80 mph, I've seen it done by other drivers in their Wranglers.
Tom, give us an opinion here regarding what (if any) highway driving mix you might see fitting the 3.07's better than 3.73's.
Quite sure...........it's covered under recall E05 MAR 05 Campaign - Engine Oil Pump Drive Gear/Cam Replacement .
The 4.0 I6 is one of most reliable and long lasting engines that DC has made. Expect 150-200K plus, if properly serviced.
My job just took me from Phoenix to South Dakota. It was in Phoenix that the seed was planted for a wrangler after going to Sedona and off roading with my 4Runner. Seriously reconsider getting a wrangler completely outfitted for the road. After you discover all of the incredible off roading you can do in your awesome state of AZ you will be disappointed that you got a road wrangler. The gorgeous trails are endless!!! As far as those guys going 80 mph on the 101, it is a death wish :sick:. I know the 101 is fast, but it is not wrangler country :mad: . I guess I write this wishing I was still in AZ with my new Rubicon
gdh
Just my 2 cents worth.
And also does anyone have any "fee's" that they know of that the dealership might try to tack on to screw me over?
- feel as if the cost of gasoline is significantly driving up their commuting costs (no pun intended)
- have been impressed with their vehicles' gas mileage
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Guy:
Everything is a trade off. I find the 3.73 gearing to be fine for long trips. I could possibly realize one mile per gallon better gas mileage with 3.07s, but the extra acceleration and the better engine braking with the 3.73s means more to me than one mile per gallon, even at these current gas prices.
I have been off roading with more than one person who has the 3.07 gearing, and they are NOT happy campers. They have to use their brakes much more on steep downslopes than they would with 3.73 gearing. In other words, their "crawl speed" is too fast. It's not only on steep slopes that you want to go slow. When you are negotiating a tricky obstacle, you want to be able to go slow without feathering the clutch. The 3.73 gearing allows you to go quite a bit slower than does the 3.07 gearing.
So, the 3.73 gearing is better for off roading, gives better acceleration on the pavement, and allows the use of bigger tires without making the acceleration so sluggish.
The advantage of the 3.07 gearing would be a tiny bit of extra gas mileage.
Take your pic.
The way I see it, a Jeep is an off road capable vehicle, and I want it to be equipped in such a way as to enhance that capablity, not detract from it. That's just the old Tomster's two cents worth, though. Whatever floats your boat.
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tom
You're probably right on track regarding your needs and the X. Even an SE is trail capable as others have mentioned, but it would be scary at 80 mph (if it's even possible). I drove my '98 SE from OK along I-40 to NM last spring - enjoyed the trip but was at the mercy of headwinds and hills to keep at interstate speeds. Sometimes even close to interstate speeds! I think you also said youwanted an automatic? If so, just one more big reason to stay away from the SE!
For the record, gas here is $2.55; NM now is around $2.63-2.70. Saw as high as $2.90 at one NM station along I-40. But that place is always way high IMHO. BTW, NM regular is 86 octane - not 87.
Tom - good to see you back! Lots of newbies here who may require your guidance! (Can I have a good old-fashioned "YEEEEE_HAWWWWW!") :surprise:
Gary
gdh
Meanwhile, my husband wasn't sure about getting a soft top so we went to a different dealership to test drive one. He decided it was OK and then thought it would be easier to just buy it from that dealership (we didn't tell them that we had an offer from a different dealership). They told us what a special deal they were going to give us, and after talking for an hour came down to $800 higher. When I asked about out-the-door price, I couldn't pin them down, but they indicated that it would be around $200 more (that's some add-on!).
So the next day I emailed the first dealership and asked where they were. It was Buerge Jeep and they were located about 3 miles from work! We went in at lunch time and left a deposit for them to do the trade, then about an hour to do all the paperwork when it came in. Very easy, non-stress and a nice experience.
Moral of the story - use email!
Thanks in advance.
gdh
I know that I'm well prepared, and I won't be a sucker. I might have them custom build my Wrangler (it doesn't cost them anything extra, they just add it to their weekly delivery scedule), so I wouldn't need to pay extra for the Jeep of my dreams. After calculating everything, my price should be appx $22,700. I plan on getting a loan from the bank, so I won't have to pay the exorbient interest rates at the dealership. No extended warranty, I won't get suckered in there.
Thanks Everyone, and I'll be posting my feedback after I close the deal!!
I will be putting this lift on my '05 Unlimited this weekend and am ready to replace those GS-As soon after. Hoping to go with 33" x 10.5 BFG MTs and it seems like they will fit (wheel well measurements etc.)
as always - Thanks!
J
I like it for city driving. It's not as great - mileage wise - on the freeway, but overall it works pretty well. Just my $0.02 ($0.01 after taxes).
TCTR SAR Jeep Coverage
33x10.5 will fit with 2" of suspension lift, but don't count on being able to flex your suspension much. IF you are using factory backspaced wheels (Canyons, Ravines, etc) the backspacing becomes an issue, even with 33x10.5. For those wheels to work, you have to add wheel spacers (Spidertrax is the ONLY brand I'd use). OR you can get aftermarket wheels with about 4 to 4.5" of backspacing.
33x10.5 will be fine for onroad with a 2" lift. Again steering at full lock may cause rubbing. There are all kinds of writeups for this 2 minute mod.
Tire size is not always a direct correlation to the lift amount. Each Jeep is just a bit different. Your tires will be taller (width the same at 10.5), but as you flex, the top inside of your tire will go in more because of the taller height. Just a question of geometry. I put a 2.5" OME on mine and I'm only going up to 32x11.5 when my 30's wear out.
As for stick vs auto and offroading - personal preference. For rock crawling, many prefer the auto for ease and ability to concentrate. I personally prefer the manual with a hand throttle on the gear shift. Manuals tend to have a higher engine compression braking effect for hills and such. I crawl almost as slow as a Rubicon in my 4.11 geared manual transmission SE! I rarely need to use my brakes on the trail.
-Paul
I think you're making more of this than you need to.
When I finally arrived...in person...to take delivery, my salesman introduced me to his colleages as "The E-Mail Guy".
Personally, I found it entertaining (hate to say it was likening it to a "game", but it was close to it!), to get his e-mail replies on my "requests".
Dealership Internet Sales Managers know full well that when they get one e-mail for quotes, potential customers are (if they're smart) sending out multiple requests to all other local dealers. Accordingly, they should understand they need to come back with their absolute, rock bottom price to lure you into their dealership. I've found that internet sales should eliminate any game playing between sales and customers. In my case, my salesperson didn't realize I was an old coot of 52, knowledgeable and "Edmunds-savvy", so he insisted, for a couple of e-mails, to play the old "I'm just not making any money on the deal as you've requested".
Finally, I just came back with my Edmunds' research, told him I was through with the back and forth, and to let's get serious. I could have ended that process early, but found it sort of fun.
I live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and we have one Jeep dealership here locally, and about 4 in Birmingham. All replied within 24 hours, but their bottom-line pricing varied by $500-$600...which surprised me a bit....
Well, I'm rambling, as I tend to do when I'm tired.....by the way...I must have missed an earlier post from you...what are you trading, and what are you trading for?
Have a good one...
Randy
I don't want to buy a hidden problem.
I know how the oil pump drive system works - I just wanted to know if there actually is a case of bad machining of the camshaft and that's what damages the oil pump gear?
Thanks. :confuse:
Sorry, you've lost me. What hidden problem??? The problem is anything but hidden.......there's a recall to fix it.........the details of the problem and it's fix are itemized in the specifics of the recall.
The reason for the problem and the means to fix it couldn't be less hidden!!!!!
If you really want something to worry about, go and have a look at the TSBs applicable to Wranglers (it's as long as your arm!). When you think about all the things that could possibly go wrong you won't even consider buying a Wrangler. The trouble is, every vehicle manufactured has the potential for a problem, not just Jeep, which kind of leaves you between a rock and a hard place.
Sincerely,
gdh
If you do rock crawling, then install a hand throttle (basically a bicycle shift lever that controls the throttle much like a gas pedal). This allows the use of the feet for clutch and brakes, and you can still do the gas by hand.
I have done some rocks with my manual SE, but didnt' have any problems. Yes, I've killed it a few times while with Tom at TB, but I think that was more a function of having a 4 cyl vs a 6 cyl.
I personally feel the manual is how a Jeep should be equipped.
-Paul
BTW, this is a great message board, very friendly and informative.
Looking to be a Jeep owner again,
Andy
-gdh
Have you cursed your soft top today?
Mark
Oh, yeah, and I love the maunal tranny too.
Air bag cover? In the center of the dash? Just want to make sure we are talking about the same trim piece. Are the screws behind (well, toward the hood) of the "cell phone catch-all depression" in the top of the trim piece? Thanks!
First there is a long piece that runs next to the windshield, I think it is called the vent shield, it has a screw in it, take it out. Now you need to grab the edge nearest the windshield and roll it towards you. Now the center piece (the plastic around the center vents and the radio) is not hard to take off but it makes you think you are going to break something the first time you take it off. It is attached w/ 4 metal clips on the back so pull it out straight towards you, and pull very hard. A couple of the clips may come off w/ the cover thats o.k.
Now you can complete the task at hand.
Before you try and put the cover back on the vehicle take the clip or clips off the cover and place them back on the vehicle before you re-attach. If it doesn't go on easy pull it off make sure none of the clips came off and try again. Hope this helps.
P.S.
I would run to Lowes or Menards and buy some plastic ties so you can tie your xm cords to something, nothing looks worse that loose wire hanging from under your dash and could be a potential cost saver if you step on one of those loose cords.
The vent cover on my 97 has no screws holding it down... just clips.
-Paul