Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

policelady · January 2006

Has anybody had any buy/lease problems with this dealership. Just making an inquiry. I am not making a problem.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Stay in your beautiful new Caddy for the full 48 month as bigveedubgirl counseled you. Dont even think about new cars til then. Dont look at magazines. Dont shop here. NOTHING! You will love yourself in the morning for just saying NO!

dino001 · January 2006

Yeah, typical "a friend of the brother in law of my coworker's cousin paid XXXXX.XX. It must be a scam". When you look closer it was last year stuff and accidentally they did not mention a $2000 trade as it was not a payment (I often get mad at dealer's ads with "YOU PAY XXXX", but honestly I also heard people saying "I paid XXXX" and only when asked they add they had old Camry they traded in and the tax is on top).

To my limited (buyer's) experience, if anything Edmunds tends to show slightly lower invoice prices, as companies increase prices over the course of a year and some dealerships are charged those nice association/ad fees (SET etc.) that are added to the invoice cost.

Rebates or incentives are deducted later, so final price can be lower than the "nominal" invoice price.

I'd love to join the conspiracy theory myself. If I could only possess that "insider" knowledge with this secret code - man! I would buy this brand new A4 V6 Avant I've been coveting for last three years for some less than $10K, perhaps?

And without conspiracy theory - no way

kdhspyder · January 2006

There is no way to reduce your payments. period. It's just like renting a house or apartment. The landlord, GMAC, wants you to stay in your apartment until the lease expires then you can leave. In the meantime you cannot trash the apartment or make major changes and you have to pay all the rental payments. Unlike a building apartment if you dont make the rent payments they can put a hook under your mobile apartment and take it away.

You've got a good deal it seems taking into account the vehicle and the amount of negative equity you had. Stay in it and take care of it for 48 mo's.

jeffyscott · January 2006

Of course dealers are going to see more of the people who constantly trade in cars.

Just as an illustration...suppose 50% of people trade every two years and 50% keep their car for 10 years. This would mean that 83% of people coming into the dealership are trading in a two year old car and only 17% are trading a 10 year old car.

rroyce10 · January 2006

.. **The invoice prices here are not even close to what 'real world' numbers are that people pay when really haggling. In fact, i have seen invoices say on a Honda Pilot EX-L with RES listed at 31600 and seen many people pay $2000 less....**

You talk about the "real world" .. so let's talk ...

First of all "invoice is invoice" - minus any rebates or incentives ... it's no mystery, no secrets, no double winks, no sideways handshakes, no CIA, no FBI, no AAA, no AARP, no NAACP ..... that said, I think some of the folks that post their prices here should be going to some AA meetings .l.o.l... the 3 biggest lies in the world: what somebody paid for their home, what somebody paid for their vehicle and what their golf handicap is ...

Take a deep breath and think about .. did you READ "their" contract.? .. did you see their trade.? .. did you know what their pay-off was..? .... No.? - that's cuz' buyers seem to leave the good parts out.

thanks for stoppin' by ........

Terry.

jeffyscott · January 2006

...I guess I was so happy to get new car when it appeared as if the warranty was running out...

You don't need to fear driving a car without a warranty. It is cheaper to pay to fix the old car than it is to buy a new one. Alternatively, (if you are careful about what warranty you buy) it is also cheaper to buy an extended warranty than it is to buy a new car.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Of course dealers are going to see more of the people who constantly trade in cars.

OK this makes sense.

Just as an illustration...suppose 50% of people trade every two years and 50% keep their car for 10 years. This would mean that 83% of people coming into the dealership are trading in a two year old car and only 17% are trading a 10 year old car.

This has me stumped and math is my native tongue. Run it by me again.

What I was alluding to was that in the numbers cited originally a large percentage of people dont show up in the stats because they never make a purchase, they can't.

policelady · January 2006

Thank you for that information. I leased my car from this dealership and just wanted to know if anybody else here had dealt with them. I will definitely take the advice and stay in the vehicle, keep up with daily mantenance and especially try and avoid a lot of dings, hit and damage. I sure appreciate this website a lot. Thanks

kdhspyder · January 2006

You're welcome.

Congratulations on your new wheels. You'll love it.

rroyce10 · January 2006

.. **Consumers do not behave rationally, not all anyway. I never understood people buying $30K+ car and crying about premium gas...**

It happens every second of everyday .... had a guy with a 530i Bimmer, nice car, took care of it, clean to the bone, he kept it super serviced .. it had a handshaker and he was getting a real deal 25mpg in it .. he goes into a double flip, and then trades it on a Prius because he really believed they get 55mpg .l.o.l..

In the meantime, he's $5 grand flipped in the car because the Yota dealer says they're cold in the market and they give him waaay less than it's really worth, then he spends a grand over MSRP for it - and 3 months out, he's getting 40mpg and screamin' mad and he wants out .. and as we watched the CBS news last night, the biggest complaint consumers are having..? ~ Prius doesn't come close to the "advertised" MPG ..... even if they did, it would have taken him 8 years to even break "dead even" .... the funny part is, this is a top notch CPA for a Fat Daddy company here in town ...

like my Great Grand Daddy used to say ...

... common sense isn't common .....

Terry

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

That was the scariest thing I ever read!!!

I live in Dallas in the Uptown/ Downtown area and It is the land of 30k millionaires. It is so so funny, My best friend and I met this guy at a club and he had on D&G (Dolce and Gabbana for the non-fashionistas) head to toe and he was sooo obnoxious, and we called it! We said he either lives in a shoebox or has a really crappy car. Sure enough he left in a Escort!!! (And I feel guilty for buying a $70 Coach Umbrella)

Since I have started selling cars I have had 2 repos w/in 6months. Just this year I have had 4!! All under 25 yearsold, with co-x and at 30k or less a year.

rroyce10 · January 2006

.... Sorry, I don't get out much ...

What is a (Dolce and Gabbana for the non-fashionistas)..?

Terry.

surferannie · January 2006

i have read the california lemon law but when you speak to the corporate customer resource for a particular car they have different rules that apply. I also want to know why dealers can't release the names of their Regional managers that make decisions regarding cars that have been in and out of their service department, still under warranty and are by California standards considered lemons. Its very frustrating to in good faith purchase a car, meet all the servicing requirements and when it begins to have major issues no one wants to help. I have an unsafe car that I have no confidence in driving on our freeways. Please walk me thru this jungle.

rroyce10 · January 2006

... **4000 upside down in a loan of say 7.9% ( First time buyer for example ) and the couple now can refinance a new minivan at 0% interest while rolling in the $4K negative equity it's actually a smart move.**

Bud, your cold .. no wonder we get reputations .......

Terry.

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

No problem! Enjoy that car and remember Stay in the car the full 48mos!! Just think, if you stay in that car you can get more car less money with no neg eq! It seems as though that dealer did the best they could with your situation. Enjoy!

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

Dolce and Gabbana is a frou frou designer (Like $250 for a t-shirt). I totally understand we are in the car business we don't get out much at all.

jeffyscott · January 2006

...trades it on a Prius...it would have taken him 8 years to even break "dead even"

It is amazing the way people over-react to gasoline prices. Spending an extra $5 grand today on a hybrid to save $5000 over 8 years is just nuts...no thanks, I'll just buy the gas.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Sorry Terry, youre off base and the catcher is about to see you.

If they are upside down on his truck to the tune of $4K they owe it no matter what. Over the next 3-4 yrs they will pay 7.9% on that loan. True they could stay in the truck and pay it off...but..

if they have to have the minivan and they qualify for the 0% it's better to pay off the NE at 0% than at 7.9%. As a matter of fact given this situation even if they have the cash to cancel out the NE it's better not to do so and to invest or bank the $4K.

Neither you nor I are in the counseling business as regards to what clients 'should' do if they decide they are buyers. I'm sure you dont train your guys/gals to spin customers if they dont think the client 'should' buy today.

Casting aspersions doesnt put you in good light either, it lessens the impression you leave.

Peace, son.

isellhondas · January 2006

The FIT should be out in April.

Just reading these stories about rolling negitive equity.

We don't get that much of that but I just love it when a person who is deeply buried tells me they want to "downsize"

They want to roll thousands of dollars of negative equity into another car with (of course) no cash down, and lower their payments at the same time.

All of this with a 530 Beacon Score!

zodiac2004 · January 2006

Just as an illustration...suppose 50% of people trade every two years and 50% keep their car for 10 years. This would mean that 83% of people coming into the dealership are trading in a two year old car and only 17% are trading a 10 year old car.

This has me stumped and math is my native tongue. Run it by me again.

If math is your native tongue, you should figure this out.

Take a small example of 20 customers and 1 dealership, and 10 customers trade every 2 days and 10 trade every 10 days (to make calculations simple).

On any given day, you'll have 5 of the 2-day traders and 1 10-day trader.

Ergo, 83%/17%

Not that this has anything to do with what you said originally, though.

jasmith52 · January 2006

Well lets do some math:

$4000 X 4 years X 7.9 % = $1264

Thats nothing compared to the extra depreciation on that minivan. Even with the 0 percent financing the minivan is not an attractive deal. After they drive the minvan off of the lot they are then $4k(neg truck equity) + maybe $10k (minivan depreciation) = $14k upside down on the minivan.

So, I agree with Terry, trading that truck isn't so smart

kdhspyder · January 2006

Granted.. your numbers are accurate.

But the couple needs a minivan. Child #3 is on the way and the truck is not going to carry all of them. And it's more costly to maintain, fuel esp now. They have to be out of the truck and the wife wants a minivan. They are going to get one so it's not up to me to tell them to get lost.

It is better for them in this case to roll the $4K over onto the 0% loan. They save $1264 as you correctly stated.

kdhspyder · January 2006

On any given day, you'll have 5 of the 2-day traders and 1 10-day trader.

Ergo, 83%/17%

Nice. thats clear and concise.Tks.

imidazol97 · January 2006

>144 months

That's 12 years!

What kind of insurance costs associated.

bcb1 · January 2006

>>In the meantime, he's $5 grand flipped in the car because the Yota dealer says they're cold in the market and they give him waaay less than it's really worth, then he spends a grand over MSRP for it - and 3 months out, he's getting 40mpg and screamin' mad
..... the funny part is, this is a top notch CPA for a Fat Daddy company here in town ...

Buddy, there is one guy that I don't want preparing my 1040's this year

Y'know...you would think before someone jumps off the proverbial deep end, trades in their nice vehicle on a whim...they might use one of them new fangled...oh, what do you call them...?....CALCULATORS! A whopping 20 seconds spent with a calculator could have saved that dude a lot of heartache, as well as pain in the ol' wallet.

bcb1 · January 2006

>>Also known as the gold collar generation!! Yep, you can impress the ladies with the suit and watch, you can buy them $15 martinis, you can convince them to come home with you in your Escalade running on dubs... (insert needle scratching the record sound here)...but home is a room in your parent's basement!!

HA HA HA HA HA. That is EXACTLY what I was thinking, Rob. I guess I should say that rather tounge in cheek, because if you really think about it, maybe it isn't so funny. Kid graduates, makes a whopping $25 or $30 big ones a year, and they are sitting pretty...as long as they are staying at the Mom & Dad Motel and have no bills! Pretty soon, their fat credit card bills and super-duper car payment leaves them stuck at home with no hope of getting out. And that's no good for Junior or for Mom and Dad!

Seriously, there should be basic high-school and perhaps even college level courses taught in managing your own personal finances! :sick:

imidazol97 · January 2006

>there should be basic high-school and perhaps even college level courses taught in managing your own personal finances!

I think that's called parenting! Don't let something else that should be common sense parent training be abrogated by them and say it should be someone else teaching the kid--like a school. Schools have enough problems with all the silly politicians in DC and states trying to run them instead of educators running the show! (And it's not even a federal-controlled area-state's rights.)

In many cases the parents deserve the kids they can't get rid of. If they'd done their job earlier, they'd be able to push the little darlin' out on their own by the time they're, oh say 24.

rroyce10 · January 2006

... ** and say it should be someone else teaching the kid--like a school. Schools have enough problems ..**

Man, you got that right.! ... we don't have parents anymore, we just have people having babies ...

Terry.

Kirstie_H · January 2006

Let's keep the conversation focused on how financial management and/or child rearing relates to purchasing vehicles, please!

imidazol97 · January 2006

>CBS news last night, the biggest complaint consumers are having

Does anyone have an online link to this report. I can't find it on CBS News Evening pages about Priuses and owners being disappoint in gas mileage.

rroyce10 · January 2006

.... Not to get you lost (like myself) .. there was two spreads on at the same time .. ABC/CBS were both having auto news, one was on the EPA, the other was on the GM issue .... me being the techno genius of a 3rd grader tried to record them both .. so it could be either one, Tues eve 6:30 EST.

Terry

imidazol97 · January 2006

That is what I meant to be talking about. Sorry if it didn't come out that way.

british_rover · January 2006

Well actually this particular case was a manual tranny Saab so it was using 80W90 gear oil which looks pretty much just like really old since it is so thick motor oil but smells totally different. As soon as I smelled the fluid I knew it was gear oil and put the plug back in right away burning my hand a little in the process since gear oil gets pretty hot. I just went back upstairs and checked the fluid level, those old Saabs have a dipstick for the manual tranny which is very nice, it was about a pint low and then I topped it off.

The chance of doing this with an auto tranny car is actually probably greater if the transmission fluid is very old since very old auto tranny fluid is black and has the same flow charteristics of motor oil. The thing that will tip you off is the smell since old auto tranny fluid smells nothing like used motor oil.

There is a chance of doing this on older Saabs, some older 4 Cylinder FWD Mitsubishis since the engine is on the wrong side for a FWD car and some 4 cylinder hondas for the same reason. Almost all 4 cylinder hondas untill recently had the engine running backwards according to normal convention so the engine was on the drivers side of a FWD car and the tranny was on the passenger. Many older 4 cylinder FWD Mitsubishis are set up the same way.

im_brentwood · January 2006

Yep,

12 years. www.woodsidecredit.com

Go ahead, bury yourself

IMO If you can't do it on the usual 60 month Chase deal then you're killing yourself to own the car. But then again.. some people just gotta have that Lambo parked in the garage/driveway/outside the poorhouse/etc

Insurance isn't as bad as you think.. $2-3k a year for a Gallardo here in NJ for an Adult with a clean record who is not using it as his or her only car.

british_rover · January 2006

I just cannot get my mind around that but I guess I just do not live in that world either.

im_brentwood · January 2006

Well.. a "cheap" used Gallardo that's actually worth buying is about $140k for an 04 with, say, 10k miles.

That's for a nice car in a good color combo.. not the paintwork piggy ex-rentals you can steal on fleabay.

Cheapest new 06 I have yet had is $202k. I just delivered a $361k car and I have 2 in stock that are north of $300k.

mark156 · January 2006

I have a feeling a lot of people may be in an awful financial situation but it can be hard to tell just by looking.

This past summer, I was in the Laguna Beach/Newport Beach/Dana Point (Southern California) area. One Sunday, they were offering a house tour near the Ritz Carlton at Dana Point to raise money for a school (I think). The houses were quite large and you could even tour the garages as a few of the house had subterranean garages

I'll never forget this one house... uh....garage, that had a new RR Phantom, Bentley Continental GT, Porsche Carrera, Ferrari, and another??? anyway, they had a million dollars of cars in the garage. Two were on lifts as to fit all the cars in. The insurance alone would let a family of four live comfortably.. LOL!

I just can't imagine anyone would want a car loan for 144 months, wow. :sick:

Mark

jasmith52 · January 2006

I've got a better twist on the long term financing !

I went to the woodsidecredit site and did the numbers on a 12 year finance of a 3 year old Kia Rio for $5k.

The payment only comes out to $52.76 a month (OAC)

isellhondas · January 2006

Ah, my old stomping grounds!

One of the few parts of So. Calif that I actually miss.

imidazol97 · January 2006

Does the site compute the total interest paid over those 12 years? Compared to the $5K purchase price. Cool data.

kyfdx · January 2006

$2600 in interest... over 12 years..

audia8q · January 2006

This time of year all of our banks and insurance companies have a boat load of stats to help us make marketing decisions....so I will pass a few more along. Since the topic is leasing..

20.2% of leases that terminated in 2005 had chargeable damage...
the avg charge was $763. compared to $719 in 2004.
Luxury and near luxury had the highest damage costs $1963 & $1682. but a lower percentage had damage 14.3% / 17.8%

bobw3 · January 2006

In reality, the only way hybrids will become economical is when the govt mandates a 30mpg minimum on ALL vehicles. What do you think the situation would be now if the govt NEVER had mandates for MPG...15mpg would probably be the norm!

kdhspyder · January 2006

My Prius is not an economical decision. It just drives better than my last 4 Camry's and is faster/quicker. It also has many more safety features than any of the Camrys and the seating is more comfortable.

Oh yeah, instead of spending $13000 over the next 4 years on gas I'll spend only $9000 as compared to my 2000 4c Camry, but that's the 4th or 5th reason I sprung for it.

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

I think what we are all trying to say is that, the "gold collar" "gen x-y-z" whatever you want to call them, is affecting the car business greatly. It might be good for the dealer temporarily, but when a lender has to repo a car 6 months after purchase, It makes it more difficult for dealers to get questionable deals bought. Plus the banks are going to have to put more stringent rules and buying guides and stipulations for those who have less than stellar credit for even legit reasons, and will force the sub lenders to charge even higher interest rates, fees ect.

I think that it is great that the younger generation have such great buying power in the industry, but many are taking on soooo much more than they can chew and not for the right reasons.

im_brentwood · January 2006

Bobw3,

The government DOES have a 27mpg "Fleet Average" standard. Cars that do not meet such standards are levied with a Gas Guzzler tax as all of our Lamborghinis are. The worst offender would be the Murcielago at 8 City/13 Highway. That being said, the Average Murcielago sees about 1/10th the annual use that a typical car does so it's actually impacting the environment less than a Prius.

The Manufacturer also has to pay fines for failing to meet these standards. Of course, this money does go into the general revenue fund.

Oh, and as far as that Kia goes... minimum amount is $25k and for 144 months minmum amount is $100,000. So.. for a $100k Kia... that'd be some heck of a Kia, but I bet we could get iluvmysephia1 to snag one.

mirth · January 2006

What do you think the situation would be now if the govt NEVER had mandates for MPG...15mpg would probably be the norm!

I highly doubt it. The market would have ensured that this was not the case. CAFE probably had the opposite effect of lowering the average fleet MPG by giving trucks a break (remember - a PT Cruiser is a truck). It's just a bureaucratic shuffling game.

volvomax · January 2006

Have your last 4 Camry's been towing boat anchors?
Because there is no way that a Prius is quicker than a Camry.

The real reason is because you wanted to be seen as doing "something" for the environment.

cosanostra · January 2006

Just doing some quick calculations - at $25/week, it would take him over 3 3/4 (3.85 actually) years to accumulate $5000 down payment (5% of a $100,000 home). Man, if only I had the will power to do the same. :P

-c

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