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Your value arguments are perfect in describing someone who buys a Lexus RX330 versus a Toyota Highlander or a Audi A3 2.0t versus the upcoming VW GTI. A3 2.0t and RX330 are catered to buyers who seek luxury. While Toyota and VW are catered to practical buyers who seek value.
Your value arguments are a bit of a stretch when applied to cars with different platforms like the V6 Altima versus a Infiniti G35 or a Toyota Avalon versus a Lexus IS.
As hard as it may be to believe but there are a great many buyers who buy premium marques because of the way they are engineered and not mainly because of image/luxury.(Although I dont have a survey to prove my last point)
To quote the famous American philospher named Designman... "nuff said"
As long as Porsche is focused on making exciting sports cars they will not be abandoned by sports car buyers. And as far as I know the sports car buyer will never be extinct as long as there are people who are andrenalin-driven.
Porsche's past problems were mainly due to the 924/944 and 928. These cars alienated a large number of traditional Porsche buyers.
There is nothing wrong with being a very profitable niche player. In fact there are advantages in being a unique niche player in a consolidated auto industry that produces a lot of look-a-like engineering and styling.
blckislandguy you stated the following:
Now fully half the sales are the Cayenne and they are doing well.
Cayenne sales have lately been diving. IMHO the rebadged engineering of the V6 VW Cayenne is a joke!
All I get from this is that you are from HK, brag that you are rich and hang around with billionaires, and prefer your Lexus to the other high-end marques that you also own. You do admit that you OWN the European marques, so it would be logical to consider that there must be something about the Euro marques that appealed to you enough to purchase them, and keep them, since you claim they are in the shop so often. Tell us what you like about the Euro marques you own.
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My friend, most people who buy those premium marques because they want to show off, not becuase of engineering. Most those owners don't know a lot about engineering. They are usually in business.
I know I have not slept a wink these past two years thinking about it.
That may certainly be the case for the people you know!
As I said, I bought those Euro marques to show off.
All I can say is . . . enjoy your new vehicle from INDIA that you say will be better than a German car.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I'm speechless, and can only imagine how merc1 would reply to those comments.
Lately it seems "or not" is the answer ... and some of you should beware of the trolls ...
I don't consider myself a 545 type of guy.
However, the 545 was being offered at only 2.4% Interest on a 3 year lease.
A 2006 330i was being offered for only about $50 a month less.
The 545 I got can be had for about 60k. The 330i I would want would go for about 43k.
I jumped at the opportunity.
I drove two 3 series for 12 years, It is my favorite car by far.
But I am looking forward to driving the new LS next fall.
DOH :surprise:
Hmmm...Powders...that's only about 9 months away....Like waiting for a new Baby to arrive. Kewl tho'....I just didn't expect to hear this news considering how much you have enjoyed driving your BMW 5 series. I still haven't seen the spy photos of the LS but would appreciate seeing it.
(I am about fully recovered from the Tennis smash. :sick: As soon as the mesh imprint leaves my backside everything will be back to normal. :P )
Nothing pretentious about it.
I am very curious to find out whether Lexus improves the driveability of their flagship.
They missed with the new GS.
It's a big moment for Lexus and I will check it out for myself.
Who knows? Maybe in a few winters, I may have a "December To Remember."
I favor BMW but I am certainly not rigid about it.
They certainly aren't sending me any holiday bonus check!
OK...you did say drive...not buy. Correctamundo.
I would be delighted to be pleasantly surprised.
We'll just have to wait and see.
Looking forward to Merc1's LS style report in January when he visits Detroit.
If he gives it grudging, lukewarm approval, that can be considered a coup by Lexus.
They turned a dull car into one with panache.
It should have been voted car of the year.
C & D really should explain why it wasn't.
And then we will have photos and analysis galore!
Ya gotta love it!
Bottom line tho' you have to get the whole scoop from L-Guy.
I had issues with the current LS: the steering had too much power assist, the body lean was pronounced and I wasn't too wild about the driver's seat.
I want to see if Lexus made any improvements in these areas.
Wonder why the 545 was only $50 more a month? Did you compare exactly comparable deals? People spend more than $50 a WEEK on Starbucks. Congrats.
Looking forward to Merc1's LS style report in January when he visits Detroit. If he gives it grudging, lukewarm approval, that can be considered a coup by Lexus.
But if Merc1 even slightly likes it, that will be huge news in this cyber neighborhood.
I didn't realise your hero worship of Merc1 goes this far ? His report from an auto show is just his slant on what he finds there. I'd rather read from Lexusguy, who is far more objective and open-minded than Merc1 is. In the real world, Merc1's likes/dislikes would be zilch to anyone wanting to buy/lease a 2007 LS460.
CLS is quite good, IMO, but I'll admit that I've posted on other forums (not Edmunds) that the tail is the problem I have with it. Still, it's a winner, but not my favorite.
The 545 available at the same time came to $674 a month.
I lucked out because they had to get rid of the 2005 545's to make room for the 2006 550's at the exact time my last 325 lease was up. Comparably equipped to my 545, the 550 is now going for about $859 a month.
I welcome anyone else's opinion and/or photos.
The more takes, the merrier.
See Pat's post right after yours!
M
Holy fuel-injectors! I can't believe CR said that about the GS and it is even more shocking that they fell out of low with the 530i, previously one of their favorites. Let me guess with the BMW, it was Idrive and active steering that led to this?
M
You're kidding and I thought that all a person could give is their "slant" on what they saw at an autoshow. You really need to go back to Jan of this year and see what I said about the Detroit autoshow, hardly anything like one of de-bunking posts written when addressing a post of yours.
In the real world, Merc1's likes/dislikes would be zilch to anyone wanting to buy/lease a 2007 LS460.
Likewise all the bogus hype you post about German cars isn't gonna mean squat to anyone wanting to buy a Mercedes, BMW or Audi.
Please don't tell me anything about being objective when you live to post anything negative about Mercedes, usually accompanied with incorrect numbers, big assumptions and other inconsistencies.
M
Thanks. Here is what I posted about the 2005 Detroit show:
Post 1
Post 2
Oac at the time said:
Thanks for a well-written auto show report. Can you comment more on the new S style-wise ? Did you see the LF-S in the Lexus stand ? Any whisper on the LF-X ? I know you probably don't care for anything Lexus, but maybe you did hear something. Source
Sounds like to me something has gone awry in the last few days or weeks, must be the last debate that changed his feelings about my annual autoshow report. :P
M
As for the GS, it was the usual complaints about handling, numb steering, and a cramped interior. Or as Edmunds (and no one else) would say, "Japan's best sports sedan".
M
As long as Merc is being feted, this thought comes to me. He is often criticized for not owning the cars he comments on. Merc is living proof that you don’t have to own a car to know about them. Think about it, none of us own most of the cars we yenta about. Also, take a look at what the professional writers drive. These guys are on working-man budgets, not “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous” budgets. I would bet Merc drives and reads about more of these cars than most of us.
But what I really appreciate is that he writes and writes, and not only in this thread. To tell you the truth, that’s why I’m here. The pen is mightier than the sword and I’m here to sharpen my pen by using a topic that I enjoy. The net has restored the previously-lost art of letterwriting, and the immediacy it affords cannot be found in any literary medium.
Now please pour me another cup of coffee.
;-)
Geesh!
Here is a clear pic of the testing prototype 2007 LS.. http://info.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.cfm?id=20928
Heck, I'd wager that most/many of the people who build MB's, BMW's and Porsche's don't own them, yet they "know" more about them than most enthusiasts. Most art critics don't own the Monet's, Picasso's, etc they write about, but that does not mean they lack knowledge about the painter and his/her style!
Most here are considerate of other's choices and even represent their points of view with grace and humor. Flamers and trolls really stand out, don't they? My guess is that many of us would like a nice large garage with several makes occupying the bays...
We MUST get back to the marques and the cars if we want this discussion to remain viable.
I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I don't seem to be getting through here. I've got to get your attention, so please, I would appreciate everyone's cooperation going forward.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/107458/page009.html
How would you describe the difference between knowing a great deal of data about one or more of the marques, and additionally having an ownership experience which gives daily exposure and interaction with the marque? Is it logical that daily interaction offers ANY advantage to understanding a vehicle, beyond all the data?