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High End Luxury Cars



  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Points taken. Incorrectly conceived or targeted "details" can be executed flawlessly and be forever wrong.


    I would say that I agree with your last sentence but that would make it one of those "this statement is false" contradictions!




  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The derriere on this LF-C concept is one of the nastiest looking things I've ever set eyes on. I thought nothing could beat Bangle. Live and learn. WOW is this butt ugly!

  • I totally agree. While it is a departure from the regular norm of their designs, it isn't a good one... The rear is all cut up in weird ways, and the front is to normal for the rest of the car. It's interesting, but it's not a good thing... IMO.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    Well, it's one of those designs that you know will make it to production in very watered down form (if at all). The shoulders are way too high, making for a very claustrophobic cabin, for one thing. Even those who think it looks great would be put off by having the side-windows start at ear level...
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Perhaps Lexus concept vehicles are intended as research projects more than anything else. They assemble a potpourri of contrasting motifs and shapes, then weigh response. I guess it’s in the interpretation of response that things go awry because everything comes out misshapen anyway, only in a more conservative and vapid manner.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    vapid: adjective:


    Lacking liveliness and spirit; unanimated; spiritless; dull; as, a "vapid speech"


    Flavorless; lacking taste or zest; flat; as, "vapid beer."


    I had to check in my dictionary since I never heard of this word before. I did learn something new from designman. Thanks, but ouch !


    BUT, my dear designman, do you not think that this is too strong a word for a Lexus ? I mean, don't you see some "spirit/zest/liveliness" in a 6-speed 5.9s 0-60 LS430 with the sport suspension (Euro-tuned) ?


    Now how would you describe the collections here ?



  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You have to keep my rants in perpective. There are no manufacturers who I don't kill on styling. The current gropes at fashion and fatuous change don't sit well here. They are running out of things to do and are just choosing to do anything while meeting deadlines. I'm even somewhat disappointed at Porsche for giving us the new smiley-faced 911 with squared off "vapid" interior details.


    But that's just the styling end of things. Turn to technology and Toyota leads the way. Hybrid has to happen and Toyota is making it happen. These are very exciting times in this regard and, as some of us have alluded to in the past, it will be more significant than most realize. I've said this before, hybrid technology in cars is the most significant innovation in autos since the car itself. And this is hardly a "vapid" endeavor. How nice it would be if they could just make these vehicles a little more consistently pleasing to look at. I can't be defending the exterior looks of the the GS, ES, IS, Solara, Matrix, Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Rav 4 etc. The blind squirrel found a nut in the SportCross though. One of my favorite styles around. Figures. It'll soon be gone while never having seen AWD.


  • When I first read this I thought that paldi was a troll for a management consultancy looking for ideas to pedal to the manufacturers. The ideas seem a little far out when the mfgs can't seem to get the electrical systems they now have to work correctly.


    In any case, my list would be a lot lower tech. How about some practical, relatively simple products that should come standard on high end vehicles? Given the outside temps, my list is going to be winter focused. Rubber liners for the rear area on SUVs and cross overs should come standard, rather than having to call McNeil to buy 'em before you can use the load space. Windshield washer fluid should be heated (incidentally, JC Whitney sells an aftermarket kit for $25 that installs easily) and it should contain de-icer mix. Factory installed remote starters should be availble to avoid problems with the aftermarket ones.


    So there's my winter wish list. With the remote you warm the car up while you are still showering in the gymn at 7PM. Then you come out and throw your grungy gymn bag on the liner in the rear, get inside, hit the windshield with some heated de-icer and drive home in comfort!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I think the Mercedes air scarf is a scream. Does anyone with a Mercedes put the top down under 70 degrees? Merc, do you have a beat on this?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    You have to keep my rants in perpective.




    I can't be defending the exterior looks of the the GS, ES, IS, Solara, Matrix, Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Rav 4 etc.


    Me neither. All of these cars/trucks are not too aestethically pleasing to me as well, especially the new Solara. Oh wait. I own an '03 Matrix, so I do like it. It is a fun little trickster, that sport-wagon-mini-thingy!


    The blind squirrel found a nut in the SportCross though. One of my favorite styles around. Figures. It'll soon be gone while never having seen AWD.


    Personally, I didn't quite like the sportcross, but like the IS sedan.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well I did get to drive the SLK late in Sept on a good chilly day at the "Love Mercedes" event and all I can say is that the Airscarf does work as advertised, and the think the SLK owners are probably a little less stuffy than the SL owners so they might actually let the top down when it cooler than 70


  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    The carpeting next to the gas pedal gets dirty and scuffed up pretty quickly and floor mats should extend to that area. Hmmm, how about a storage compartment for your umbrella?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well it is official. The facelifted 7-Series will be shown at the Geneva Motorshow in March. The 325hp 745i becomes the 360hp 750i/Li with a new 4.8L V8. The 760i/Li stays put with 438hp. I'm hard pressed to see that much difference in the styling. Two articles:

  - - - - 3&n=156


    the more in-depth one with the pictures:

  - - - - ang/eng/bmw/1.html


    The back side just has a few changes to the lamps and a chrome bar, the trunklid itself is the same ugly piece it has always been.



    Note: I wonder if the U.S. market will finally get the entry level V8, the 740i/Li. It has been upgraded too, 306hp. The exact same hp rating as the European Mercedes S500. Mercedes and BMW being marketers of each others cars is the saying in Europe, so now you get an idea what the hp ratings for the new S-Class engine range will be.


  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Lexus LS430 - 32,272

    Mercedes S-Class - 20,460

    BMW 7-Series - 16,155

    Jaguar XJ - 10,552

    Audi A8 - 5,942

    VW Phaeton - 1,939

    Maserati Quattroporte - 425




    Very intesting. The LS ran away with the segment, yet the oldest car is still in 2nd place. Big improvement for the A8, but Phaeton is just not considered. The Maserati is too exotic to ever be more than an a extreme niche player.



  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    DEFINITELY an improvement. This morph is a study in how extreme details can wreck the look of a car. The only change for the worse is the emphasized crease on the hood a la E90 —too much contrast with the overall round contours, and the lone link to surface flaming. And I wish they would lose that chrome-banded wolverine look on the skull. I see the Infiniti M has hitchhiked onto that nonsense.


    There are many subtle revisions and it is clear to me that they made an effort to address the styling problems BMW enthusiasts are moaning about. I am encouraged because they are showing signs of coming back to us.


    Can't wait for the next completely new platforms and a 5 facelift.

  • cove148cove148 Posts: 117
    What period of time does these sales figures cover?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Those are calendar year 2004 sales figures.


  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,724
    I agree.. subtle changes can make a big difference.. I never got the 745i tail light treatment, until I came up on it from the rear at night.. The lights line up nicely then, but are completely off when viewing it in the daytime.. The facelift (buttlift?) brings the rear look closer to the 5-series... Which is still not great.... but, much better..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,724
    The horsepower wars continue.. 360 hp on the base 7-series..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Merc:


    Welcome back...


    I gotta hand it to you...."The oldest car is in second place...


  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Yes, but that 360hp only does a 5.8s 0-60. What's that ? The '05 LS430 does that already with a motor that is 70hp less. Must be the new 7 is bloated with more weight, eh ?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,724
    I don't know.. Edmunds shows 5.9 for the Lexus.. and BMW claims the same for the current 745i..


    But, more weight is right.. about 475 lbs. more.. I wouldn't exactly say bloated, though.. The Lexus is very light for a full-sized car.. You have to like that..


    Bloated? That would be the Mercedes..





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  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Can't wait for the next completely new platforms and a 5 facelift.


    Won't that be too soon ? Considering the new design is only 1 MY in the market ?


    I agree with you, the new 7 looks much better. Interestingly, my wife (not a car-fan by any long stretch) told me she likes the 7-series the best of all f/s luxury cars. Better than the Lex or MB. She thinks it looks much more solid than its competition. Go figure. I have learnt not to publiclly disagree with her, so there you have it. What she says I agree with. Now I am coming out in the open to proclaim my admiration for the 7-series cos' my wife said so. There....


  • Looked at the cars today at the auto show; I love going to be able to compare all the cars at once. Couldn't believe there was no 7 series there. Otherwise I loved the XJ8L and the A8. I'd take the A8 (I think it's the best looking car both inside and out, especially inside), but with the price diff the XJ8L comes out ahead to me. One thing I couldn't get over was the $20k premium for an S500 over an XJ8L. No idea why that exists, other than MB name. And I'm a current MB owner so not knocking MB, just don't see how they charge such a premium over similar cars. Of course this analysis is by looking and sitting, no driving. . .
  • vwguild2vwguild2 Posts: 113
    Are not typically not priority #1 for most buyers in this one is looking for a slug, but many years have gone by since boasting about such things in the cafeteria lunch line to impress was the thing to do...


    And, of course, I am very pleased to see the PHAETON get so close to the goal numbers for it's rookie season...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Actually the only cars in this class that are "bloated" are the VW Phaeton V8, Audi A8L and the 745i/Li, all of which weigh more than a S430 or S500.


  • On the 7 series. What change? Ugly still is ugly. Marginal best description. The worst offending most criticized detail is left the same. A Bavarian Lexus GS inspired hunchback scaled up and more offending. I-drive is on what Microsoft 3.0 now? BMW should pay attention what Lexi did to LS refresh much sleaker, bolder front end styling from previous. Impressive sales figure late in the game.


    Saw my first new A8, rear end treatment looks pretty generic, nondescript for its price tag. This car so much wants to join the big "A" list crowd but Audi's 2nd tier status and spotty previous product image and quality wont be happening any time soon. Better get it if you like it as is, the A8 too gets the Mack truck Semi grill. Amazing, Acura sold over 70K TL's last year alone and Audi sold a little over 80K for the entire division here. Pretty sad sales figures given the A4 does 60% of the revenue. But then the A4 never really outshined any competitor anyways.
  • Well, I personally really like the BMW design, and the one thing I didn't like, BMW changed. That would be the front end. I thought the headlights were the worst part of the car. I never had a problem with the rear, and I think it looks better now than it ever has. It seems like the car is a bit less masculine now with those eagle eyes gone. I really like it. However, this is what the original car should have looked like...
  • FWIW, thats why I bought the black interior. The "Havana beige" on a Porsche looks really nice in the photos but for a daily driver?.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I am re-visiting the link provided by Merc1 re the 2006 7-series ang/eng/bmw/1.html


    and providing a couple excerpts that are just too funny to ignore:


    BMW’s iDrive control concept, the ergonomically sensible combination of single-button control and display monitor introduced in 2001 and much copied since then, has now been further refined....


    Huh ? The idrive is now "much copied" ? By who ???


    All BMW 7 Series now feature BMW’s two-stage Adaptive Brakelights: Whenever the driver applies the brakes harder than usual, motorists following behind are warned by the larger brake light area.


    I am supposed to keep my eyes glued to the rear of the Bimmer just to see that *larger brake light area* when brakes are applied too hard. Huh ? What a feature ???


    The optional CD changer is now MP3 CD-capable


    An optional CD changer on a $80K+ car ? Geez... You can get a CD changer standard on $30K cars, but not on a BMW 7-series ?


    What would they think of next ???
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