Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

jfl · January 2002

Frank, thanks for the info. I'd like them mainly for the routine maintenance stuff. Some of the little tricks that make the job simpler. I don't PLAN to take the transmission or engine apart . . .

bluesubie · January 2002

We took both Scooby's for service yesterday.

The dealer repaired my exhaust at no charge. As I suspected, there was a hole from when they welded the shields. They've welded a few in the past and have never seen a hole develop before. They just re-welded it. Their work carries a 1 year warranty so I'm not too concerned.

My wife's car was in for round 2 of interior bulb replacement (HVAC). She wasn't even charged for the bulbs because the part guy went home and they couldn't look up the info. The passenger seat heater bulb is out but the entire switch has to be replaced. No big deal for now. Buttons 4-6 on the radio are dim and the head unit would have to be sent out. Also no biggie.

They took a look at the oil leak and said it was because of a bad crankshaft seal (I think that's it). It was dripping onto the oil pan so I that's why I thought it was the oil pan seal. That will be re-scheduled later this month.

They also recommended going ahead and replacing the cam belt (currently at ~56k). They said since the crankshaft will be under warranty, she'll only have to pay for the belt(~$80) vs. paying $315 at 105k.

-Dennis

bigfrank3 · January 2002

Not to be obsessive about this, but I happened to find the message from Darlene with the breakdown on the individual books.

Volume 1 general information $16.38
Volume 2 mechanism & functions $41.94
volume 3 Engine $48.96
volume 4 Fuel & OBD II $44.70
volume 5 Transmission & diferential $36.65
volume 6 mechanical components $44.90
volume 7 body & electrical $36.76
volume 8 wiring diagram $11.40

A good "starter" set would be 1 and 2, add 8 if it fits your inclination. The others could always be added if needed. Vols 3 - 7 are the "heavier duty" stuff we sould rather not do.

About 90% to 95% of what I have wanted to know has been in 1 and 2, although I have read them all... can't help it, I am an engineer 24/7.

It was only when I wanted to bleed my clutch system did I get more info from another book. It was the engine book... the manuals take some getting used to... although I could have managed without that book.

Regards,
Frank

miksmi · January 2002

Thanks, Frank. If wanted to remove the door panel to replace speakers or remove the console facia to replace a head unit, which volume would I want? (instructions are on scoobymods.com, just thinking about the type of work I might try)

Oh, Darlene's total is $281.69 vs. $283.53 from subaru-parts.com. Just so you don't feel too obsessive.

..Mike

bigfrank3 · January 2002

That would be 7, which would probably be the next most used after 1 and 2. It also is where you find out how to remove the grill and such, and where the outside temperature sensor lurks.

Darlene said that her price was only 10% off because of the free shipping she provided. Any more than that would cause her to lose money.

Regards,
Frank

armac13 · January 2002

I've never gotten the answer before. Where exactly does the ambient temperature sensor live? I've been wondering for more than a year. Thanks.

Ross

jfl · January 2002

Frank, the information you provided is like an answered prayer. Now I know what books to get.
Thanks,
Jim

bigfrank3 · January 2002

Some items in the books don't get a lot of detail, and this is one of them. It doesn't actually say where it is, but the picture appears to be behind the grill, in front of the radiator. It seems to be attached to a vertical member that is triangular shaped (point up), and could in fact be the structure below the latch assembly. I never followed up to check, it is just something I remember in passing. I will try to take a peek tomorrow to see if I find something that looks like the picture.

I mis-spoke earlier, this is actually from book 2. It may be mentioned somewhere else but I haven't found any more references to it.

Regards,
Frank

armac13 · January 2002

just been a point of curiosity.

Ross

miksmi · January 2002

c_hunter · January 2002

Anybody adjusted a window and/or removed a interior door panel on a late model Legacy or Outback? I want to adjust the rear-door driver's side window on my LL Bean. I am sure it must be a simple procedure. My main concern is how to remove the door panel without exploding retainer clips all over the place. There are always a few things you end up figuring out the hard way when it comes to removing door panels, and it would help if someone else has done it and can offer advice.

Also, any info on how the windows adjust would be great. I want to reposition the glass just slightly, so that it seats in the gasket/molding better when closed. If you were looking at the driver's side of the car, the rear door glass would need to slide horizontally about 1/8 inch towards the front of the car.

thanks,
Craig

ateixeira · January 2002

Why not let the dealer do it? Want to get more familiar with your car?

-juice

c_hunter · January 2002

Exactly. I have some free time this weekend, and figured it would be a good project. I also feel like I could probably do a better job than the dealer, but that's probably an OCD thing. In my experience, grease monkeys don't always handle trim/alignment issues in the best way.

Craig

theob · January 2002

Anyone have experience draining / filling a rear differential on an Outback with a differential protector on it? Had the 15k Service done and they replaced the rear diffy fluid, but left bunch of fluid dripping off the diffy pro. I could smell it when I walked up to the car. In my garage, I got under and wiped most of it up with a rag to make sure that it wasn't the diffy leaking. It looked like the drain hole in the diffy was on the back, rather than the bottom. That would explain the mess. Any ideas on whether there is a drain on the bottom or if you have to remove the protector?
Thanks,
Theo in CO.

bluesubie · January 2002

I believe you would have to move the protector. I think it's only a matter of loosening a couple of bolts and removing it.

If it were me though, I would go back to the dealer (if it's convenient) and tell them to clean up their work.

-Dennis

locke2c · January 2002

if it were me i'd take it to the carwash and give it a good blast with the power washer. my car is usually in need of that anyway, so cleaning the diff would be a good excuse to wash the whole thing.

-Colin

ateixeira · January 2002

That's how most rear diffys are - two plugs on the back side (not bottom). At least my Miata is the same way.

It's messy, but I just use a rag. The wife loves the "gear oil cologne" smell on me afterwards.

-juice

pattim3 · January 2002

I'd bring it back to the dealer. They need/want to know when they make an error so it doesn't happen again. I'm sure they would want to do right by you.

Patti

[Deleted User] · January 2002

I know what you mean about the gear oil cologne, Juice. No matter how hard you scrub, it simply won't go away for days.

Last time I changed out the fluid in a manual transmission I used synthetic oil. It was worse than dino gear oil! Smell stuck around for weeks.

Ty

nygreg · January 2002

The plugs on the rear diffy for changing the oil are in the rear and so are the corresponding holes in the diffy protector. I recently installed one on my OB and it was very easy (4 bolts). Looking at the design, my first thought was that fluid will pool at the bottom of the protector when changing the fluid. If you look at my pictures (link in photo forum) you can see the holes clearly. I only have 1 picture there now, but, will add the whole installation soon. Getting your hands in there to clean the fluid is difficult. Try taking Colin's advice and blast it with a pressure washer and some soap. You can remove it to clean it if that doesn't work. It took me 20 minutes to install, no jacks needed.

Greg

theob · January 2002

On truck-type vehicles, I've seen it mostly on the bottom. That is the way my 86 4Runner is. I didn't have a light with me to see if the hole in the bottom of the diffy pro was matched to a plug or not.
Dennis, it does take 4 bolts to remove the pro. But I would think that the pro would be desiged for changing the fluid w/o removing the pro. There are three holes in the pro: two on the back where there are two plugs, and one on the bottom that appears to be where there should be a plug on the bottom of the diffy case (or maybe it's where the fluid would drip off the case as it runs down the side ;-). I'll get a good look in that hole soon.

Greg, thanks for the response! It is hard to get hands in there to clean up. You're right, jacks aren't required. If I didn't get the inside cleaned out, I wouldn't know that it wasn't leaking. Thus, just blasting it wouldn't have sufficed.

Patti, thanks for chiming in! I will note it on the survey when they send it. It just seemed easier to clean it up myself at that point. They had already gotten mixed up and put the H-4 oil filter on (it's a VDC), which I caught while looking at the invoice. They immediately offered and did make it right.

Theo in CO.

ateixeira · January 2002

Ty: I wear latex gloves now when working with gear oil. You're absolutely correct.

I installed the Subaru diffy protector myself, and did notice it leaves an opening for access to both plugs on the back of the diffy. I guess it could spill, but use a rag or something to avoid a mess.

I do not recall a hole in the bottom, but maybe the one for the Forester is different? It had 2 bolts on each side, and a couple on the back, so there were definitely more than just 4 bolts.

-juice

theob · January 2002

The picture that nygreg has up showing the diffy pro shows a hole in the bottom (very subtle in the picture). There are two bolts on the front that are the same size, I believe. As you can see from the picture, 2K+ OB diffy pro is different from the one you put on, Juice. You're right, yours does have two bolts on each side of the front and no hole in the bottom.
Theo

hondafriek · January 2002

I think it is always prudent to use gloves when handling any used oil.

This stuff can be absorbed through the skin.

To my mind the health hazard outweighs the smell factor.

Cheers Pat.

c_hunter · January 2002

Are you saying the H6 uses a different oil filter than the H4? I figured Subaru would use the same filter across the board. Looks like I may have to order a bunch of new ones if they are different. I still have 2 filters leftover from my old H4 Outback, which I ordered from Darlene back in 2000.

Craig

locke2c · January 2002

pat,

while it's true just about anything petrochem is carcinogenic, especially at very high exposure rates, I would opine that motor oil is quite safe to handle.

if you just don't like getting dirty that's one thing, but there's no reason to be unduly concerned about getting oil on yourself... even if gear oil does smell like rotting fish.

-Colin

[Deleted User] · January 2002

Juice: Great idea! I've noticed many mechanics have started using latex gloves. But I've also noticed a lot of those mechanics use the gloves until there are holes in them, which kind of defeats the purpose. Next weekend I'll be draining and refilling a manual tranny with synthetic again, so I think I'll put gloves on my shopping list.

Hondafriek and locke2c: I've wondered about the health hazard link myself. Mechanics have been handling used and new oil without protection for a century now, but there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of cancer or other diseases with that group only. I wonder how dangerous oil really is? By the way, rotting fish is a great analogy :-)

Ty

ateixeira · January 2002

Can I absorb cauliflower through the skin instead of eating it? ;-)

I've also heard the H6 filter differs.

-juice

moonsage · January 2002

My Bean got its first scrape today. Unfortunately, I did it all by myself - rolled right back into another Subie (an older, already beat up one - no discernable damage to it) parking on a San Francisco hill.

It's actually a little chip out of the rear bumper - about 1/4" X 1/2" - & I'd like to repair it myself if that's feasible for someone who's never done any such thing before. If I just get a little bit of paint & dot it on is that better than nothing? Or does it need sanding, sealing, & who knows what else? It CAN'T be too challenging........can it? & where would be the best place to get the right paint?

Any advice most appreciated.

Jillian & the Bean with that dreaded first ding.....

ateixeira · January 2002

Jillian: the bumper itself is basically plastic, no don't worry about sealing to prevent rust or anything like that. Just use a bottle of touch-up paint, applied carefully. It's more or less like using nail polish.

-juice

locke2c · January 2002

tyguy: I work for a petrochem company. ;-)

-Colin

c_hunter · January 2002

Ouch, I know the feeling.

Juice is right, just use some touchup paint. Anything more involved (sanding, filling) would actually cause a bigger problem. You want to minimize the cosmetic damage while preserving as much of the original finish as possible. For me, that usually means a few light dabs of touchup paint, and resisting the urge to over-do it. When using touchup paint, less is more. You can always go back and add another coat later, but it's hard to fix it when you use too much!

Craig

hondafriek · January 2002

Thanks for the heads up, my wife is into healthy living and eating and has quite a library on health.

I remember reading somewhere in some of her stuff that Some of the byproducts in used motor oil can be absorbed through the skin.

Cheers Pat.

mortpeaberry · January 2002

I asked my service rep about synthetic oil, this was his answer...
a few years ago, consumers (i think) did a test on all sorts of oil, by brand and syn/dino. They wanted to find a group of drivers that drove hard with lots of miles in a short time NY CABBIES. The ONE thing that made a difference was regular oil changes (3-4k), that was all. He then said that if I was using running a higher performance engine, high revs, or in temp extremes, then it would make more sense. But otherwise I would just be throwing away my money - as it is almost double and the dealer pays for my regular oil changes for 36k miles.
I trust what he said, signed my n/c service invoice and drove away (in a clean car) Subaru Santa Cruz is OK by me.
Steve-v

locke2c · January 2002

wrong.

the biggest thing that makes a difference is filter changes. after 3k hard miles in a sound enginge regular mineral oil might be tired, but a good synthetic most definitely won't be.

BUT even if the synthetic is good for 15k miles you'd want to change the filter before then. on a new engine, especially a turbocharged one that sees extreme heat in several components (like the oil-cooled turbocharger), synthetic is smart and a cheap way to get more life out of the engine.

it probably is overkill on your average, low performance normally aspirated engine though.

-Colin

cptplt · January 2002

Just found out my 98 Legacy GT has one, I had taken a trip from Chicago to Minneapolis and had noticed the engine was "using" oil on the trip. Which is something it never did before. I put it down to some very hard , long driving on that trip but since nothing was on the floor and no obvious leak I put it down to it being burned. I was going maybe 4hrs+ at over 70 (the WI hwy patrol are not what they used to be!).

When I went in for my 60K service, they could tell there was a leak.I had a similar problem with my 92 Legacy L when it had about the same mileage and age and thinking back, it also happened after a long trip like this. My mechanic who is a Subaru Senior Master Certified one, said its very common for this to happen. Subaru had some gaskets they used on their engines which after several years would become distorted and during a high speed highway run, would start to leak.Several years ago they changed the material it was made off and its not supposed to be a problem anymore with cars made the last few years. Just thought this would be useful info for anyone with a several year old Subaru whose noticed the engine is starting to use oil, it may actually be leaking out that seal on the highway!

This also qualifies under my extended warranty so thats about $300 there I save.So after 4 years I've saved about $600 having this warranty.(200 for new radio antenna, 100 for light in dash, now this), plus I'm pretty sure come summer I will find my ac is leaking refrigerant - it was almost empty at the end of last season - whatever is causing the leak will also be covered and they suspect its some valve which requires the dash to be dismantled and thats a few hours labor right there.I think I am going to get my moneys worth from this warranty.
I'm going to have them change the timing belt at the same time they fix the seal, though my 2.5 DOHC doesn't officially need it till 105K, but its only $90 in parts if they do it now.

crawdadking · January 2002

I thought this had been discussed to death but I guess new owners are born every day. There is a logical reason that the H4 and H6 have different oil filters. The H4 has it's filter mounted vertically so needs no anti drainback valve. The H6's filter is mounted horizontally and therefore needs an anti drainback valve. Otherwise every time you shut the engine down on the H6, all the oil would drain out and it would take a second or two to refill the filter upon startup. This probably wouldn't be disasterous but would not be good practice for a prolonged period. I don't use purolator filters, but I think the 14459 fits the H4 and the 14460 fits the H6. This is not the SOA part number but I talked to a tech rep from Purolator in Greensboro, N.C. and he told me these filters correspond to the SOA part numbers. Personally I like Baldwin filters and use the B227 on my Bean. Change every 3k and have 15k so far with no problems.
Hope this helps someone,

Guy

brawnydawg · January 2002

anybody have these problems and what did Subaru do???

kens · January 2002

So, how much oil were you burning before you had it diagnosed?

Ken

ikoiko2u · January 2002

>3999 of 4038 by ateixeira Jan 05, 2002
>(08:10 pm)
>A thought on the smell - could it be the >infamous sulfur smell of the undercoating >burning off the exhaust? Or perhaps the >chemicals used the melt ice on roads? Try >washing the undercarriage, maybe.
>For the HVAC, spray some Lysol through it with >the system running to kill off any bad smell. I >turn the A/C off a block before my house and >vent it out a little before parking to prevent >this.

>-juice

Juice,

I sprayed some into the intake vents and the smell disappeared for a few days then came back with a vengence. The dealer sprayed a fungicide into it that they've had success with and it has worked so far. Thanks for the advice about turning the A/C off before arriving home. The dealer also suggested this. They have had this come up with Subie's since 2000...

Paul

ikoiko2u · January 2002

I can't connect with Quality Subaru these days (is Darlene retired?) so here is my question: Where can I purchase a replacement set of carpet protectors (the kind that came with the car when it was new in 2000)? The original ones are pretty ragged.

Thanks.

Paul

cptplt · January 2002

I checked the oil after the trip back from MPLS and it barely registered on the dipstick, topped it up with a little I had left in a bottle and then maybe 3/4 of a quart from a new one and have checked it several times in the last month and topped up one more time , I think I used the rest of the bottle . It wasn't losing lots of oil after getting home to the usual suburbs driving though I do maybe 30 freeway miles several times a week but it wasn't like doing a trip and trying to go flatout continuously on the freeway till I was almost out of gas like I did on the trip to MN! But given it had never used oil it was a change from before. When they had it up on the stand I looked at the area of the seal, you could tell, there definitely had been stuff leaking out. The gasket deforms more when very hot hence the potential problems with highway travel.

pattim3 · January 2002

FYI - The H-6 filter is the same as the SVX filter. Different than the H-4. The information that Guy provided is correct.

Patti

n8wvi · January 2002

IIRC, the oil filter for the H6 doesn't have an anti-drainback valve either. I KNOW the one that came off the engine from the factory didn't have one. I asked Subaru and have an e-mail from John Mergen JMergen@subaru.com that says that the H6 doesn't require an anti drainback valve because it's built into the oil cooler. I also have had a NUMBER of exchanges w/ people from Purolator that say that the only reason they switched the recommended oil filter for the H6 from the 14460 to the 14559 is because they got an number of messages from concerned customers that there was no valve. Changing the recommendation allays these concers. But even Subaru says it (the valve in the filter) isn't needed. I even tried a test myself. Wife got home from work Friday night and we let the car sit all weekend, taking the other scoobie. Sunday afternoon, I changed the oil, removing the filter (a 14460 WITH OUT a drainback valve) first and there was PLENTY of oil that came out.

Dave

ateixeira · January 2002

Glad I could help, Paul. I should do the same for my Miata, which smells like sweaty socks when I crank the heat.

Darlene's dealership is in a financial mess. We're hoping a new owner takes over soon. Since then I've bought from subaruparts.com, but they were so slow I cannot recommend them.

-juice

locke2c · January 2002

I recommend Irvine and Troncalli Subaru. One is in california, the other georgia. Fast service, good prices. I have their contact info at home or it's probably easily found on the iClub

-Colin

bluesubie · January 2002

Steve-V -
That CR test was not a test comparing conventional vs. synthetic. It was really comparing different brands of conventional and oil change intervals. Here's a reprint of the article:
http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.shtml
They had a few engines with synthetic thrown in, but they developed unreleated problems and could not finish the comparo.
My dealer uses synthetic on request and I had a talk with the shop foreman about them. He agreed that you can go more miles with them and he's seen the inside of an engine that used Mobil 1 and said it was spotless. Everyone always has an opinion.

cptplt- My wife's 99 OB also has a crank seal leak. She's taking it in later this month. Luckily, she still has a few thousand miles left on the Powertrain warranty. They also recommended to go ahead an change the timing belt.

-Dennis

theob · January 2002

I'll defer to others who have done the research. My profile lists the SOA # for the filter that SOA lists for the H-6.
Thanks to Dave, et al, for the info.
Theo in CO

crawdadking · January 2002

What you say makes sense. I have changed the oil on my Bean 3 times and everytime plenty of oil ran out, (on the floor, down my elbow). I always had some curiosity about why there was a different SOA part number for the filters. When I talked to a Purolator rep he told me they were exactly the same filter with different part numbers. I think it is begining to make sense.
Bottom line-it probably doesn't make any difference which filter you use, so I use Baldwin, which I believe makes one of the best.

Have a good day,
Guy

web3 · January 2002

FYI. There is a dealer, Bill Kolb, in Orangeburg , NY advertising a 20% discount on all Subaru parts in AUTOWEEK. There is no E-mail address but the phone number is 845-398-6323. I have never dealt with them. Does anyone have any info about this dealer?

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