....have to do these shenanigans to drive smoothly a state-of-the-art automatic transmission in this day and age from a premier luxury nameplate?
Perhaps Lexus did this to get good EPA numbers, but since you are driving in 4th, the non-recommended way, you will take a gas mileage hit, perhaps small, but still there, not to mention increased wear and tear (since engine wear will be related to a parameter called piston travel per mile, and others) and noise and even increased CO2 and Nox emissions.
My opinion is that Lexus has a [non-permissible content removed] (technical term )drivetrain in the ES300/ES330, and they should fix the darn thing.
I am sorry, but I cannot accept these "work-arounds" while letting Lexus off the hook.
The two recent Lexus problems include the oil gel (sludge) issue and the transmission issue discussed on this site. The one thing about these two issues is that it appears that the owners can take actions to decrease the pain level. In the case of the oil gel, it appears that oil and filter changes every four months or 4,000 miles minimizes this issue. Concerning the transmission problem, it may be that using fourth gear rather than fifth gear in city driving minimizes this issue. There are many problems with other cars that don't seem to have actions that the owners can take to minimize the pain level. There is talk that some of the new owners of the new BMW 5 series with the iDrive have to break a window in order to exit the car after a chip problem. Problems like this make me think that the luxury Japanese cars (Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti) are the way to go.
While driving in 4th gear (under 45mph) the rpms are rarely in excess of 2000. Since the car usually shifts from 4th to 5th at around 40mph, I doubt if there is significant increased wear and tear on the engine by driving in 4th around town. The owner's manual actually recommends using 4th gear "if the transmission repeatedly shifts up and down while climbing a gentle slope". Granted the slight increase in rpm will result in slightly less mpg. Actually, my Lexus salesperson was the first one to suggest driving in this fashion. I will ask the service manager about his thoughts too. Anyway, the car seems to shift smoother when I drive in this way.
....is surely small, but it will nonetheless be more at 2000 rpm than at 1800 rpm. One has to calculate the increase in piston travel in feet per mile of car travel to estimate this. And besides, why should one be required to drive like this if the drivetrain is truly well-designed?
I'm sure that you're right about an increase in "piston travel per mile of car travel" to drive in 4th gear while under 45 mph. However, the Lexus service mgr claims there would be no excessive wear while driving as I described. It seems to help with my perception of "smoother shifting". Also, using premium gas has helped to some extent. I agree with you that this is not a perfect situation, but we have committed our dollars to drive these cars so I will make the best of it. I applaud those who are trying to get the attention of Lexus.
...claim that there is nothing wrong with the transmission too. If you believe everything they tell you, boy have I got a fantastic deal for you on a certain famous bridge
More seriously, I agree with you that trying to make the best of the situation given the invested amount is the right thing to do, and you are also right that Lexus should be pushed to fix these cars for a problem that they will not admit to.
I do not have any issue with an ES300 anymore since I just traded mine in, and have since moved on in my vehicular life. I just want to continue to do my share in helpng others still stuck with the lousy drivetrain that is simply not what one would expect of a Lexus.
Thank you for passing judgement on my driving style. I didn't know you were a witness to the incident. And I didn't know that is what this message board is about. I hope that,someday,when you are about to be involved in a "incident" and you floor it to get out of the way, that all goes well for you. If you are driving a 02/04 ES300, you will probably be disappointed. And, incidently, what do you think will happen to the resale value of these cars when the problem becomes public knowlege?
to the Real World Trade Values site on the Smart Shopper thread you'll hear the pre-2002 models as used cars are very strong and the 2002+ ES300's are not. The guys there have no axe to grind. They just watch the wholesale auctions. The public already knows.......the old ES300's are in demand and the new ones (as used cars) are not.
From what I can tell, I'm the only one that has taken Lexus to task on this very bad problem that a number of us are having. I took Lexus to a Lemon law hearing and beat their butts. When the judge drove the car the transmission failed twice for him. Unfortunately, I was stupid and thought a new car wouldn't have the same problem. I also thought Lexus would eventually back their product. Now they say there never has been a problem, and if your dealer says there is.....well..... he is misinformed. I've since done a lot of other things to put pressure on them. Will some of you tell me what you've done in the last few months, outside of complaining to your dealer? I would love to organize something. It saddens me to see so many people willing to pay top dollar for mediocrity, and others to act like lemmings.
You are somehow under the assumption that because you have a "problem" with your transmission everybody else would also. What you might think is a problem could very well be the characteristic of the car. Just because it doesn't fit your driving style doesn't make it a problem. I personally drive an 03 Camry that has the same engine and transmission and it has been flawless. Then again I don't like to drive aggressively or stomp on the gas pedal all of a suddenly. Maybe if I did I could have felt the so called problem. Most ES300 owners don't drive like a maniac and therefore probably don't feel the "problem". If you really think the lemon law is on your side, sue Lexus again. Maybe this time Lexus will give you an ES330 or better yet an LS430.
Ignore motownusa, he HAS to be a ToyotaUSA employee. If he doesn't experience a problem, it just cannot exist. Specifically, what characteristics did your 300 exibit? Did you have the computer upgrade? I have complained to my dealers service manager and she simply repeats the "company policy dejour". I have called Lexus customer service and they say that the computer upgrade solves the problem and thats the end of it.
For those experiencing transmission problems on your ES300, how long after you bought your vehicle did you begin to notice such problems...was it right away or after a few months or few thousand miles, etc?
Quote:"Most ES300 owners don't drive like a maniac and therefore probably don't feel the "problem"." I DON'T drive like a maniac!! I've owned three ES300's and I NEVER had anything negative to say about the transmissions in any of them. I traded in my 1994 ES for an 2003 ES, and from day one I experienced what many of these other owners have experienced...shifting hesitations...transmission having problems deciding what gear to shift into, etc. Funny, when I drive my wifes 2001 Toyota Corolla I enjoy how the transmission responds in all instances, and that car cost $25,000 less then my Lexus! That's all that we're all looking for.....a car that responds properly to the input of the accelerator pedal. True, I can overcome the inherent problems of this transmission, but why should I allow the car to think for me? I want to decide these things myself. One other thing. I've driven over twenty 2002-3-4 ES's and everyone of them exhibited the same problems. It doesn't matter whether I'm driving calmly or aggressivly.....it CAN be reproduced!
These are three links I found on the Club Lexus USA site. They also have a on-going discussion about our problem. The only way Lexus will ever be pressured into acting on our problem is if pressure is brought to bear by one of these organizations. It certainly could not hurt for each of us with a transmission problem to visit these sites and voice our concern with our cars performance and Lexus's lack of concern.
does NOT have the same transmission as does the ES300. For one thing, the Camry's transmission is not a 5 speed. If your experience is reported based on a Camry, then no wonder you aren't feeling the problem.
Whenever someone says "the ES300 is just like a Camry" they tend to forget to add the "except, except, except, except....."
motownusa could I take a ES330 for a couple of hours and detect transmission problem? If I don't does that mean I have one free of this problem. Right now the ES330 is my next purchase. If I can "find a good one" I'll feel a little better about spending the money.
motownusa is probably not the person whom you want to ask, since he has not detected the problem. Also, at this point, it is unclear whether he is reporting the problem based upon a Camry and an assumption that the Camry is like the ES300.
My opinion is that the hesitation is in every car and can be repeated on a test drive. It is a design problem, not an individual automobile problem.
sorry bout the mis-iden. I assume the people that are test driving the ES330 are not picking up on this problem. Most all reviews heap praises on this car.I've done the BMW thing and having retired am ready for some long road miles. I'm gonna try and detect the tranny glitch on my test drive. Probably purchase in mid January. Will keep posted on what I find.
I agree Mowtownusa is a real joke.... one of several Lexus Plants for transmission damage control. How can you ignore two years of complaints on this board, a talk site specifically for the problem and admissions by Lexus technicians. I wonder if he works in their California or Georgia office. Is it just a coincidence he's spouts the same new talking points as Lexus corporate? Atoews open your eyes.
Anyway..... the problem I have is just like yours and others. It's periodic.... and varies from week to week, day to day and hour to hour. I mentioned there was a period when I thought it was fixed. In stop and go traffic I get a slip and surge that makes it hard to change lanes safely. This is at speeds from 5 to 20 mphs. I gently press the gas pedal and nothing..... then the car lurches forward a few feet. Also, like many others, I have run into problems where I needed to accelerate. The sensation is somewhat like putting the car in neutral and watching the RPM's float up, sometimes to redline. The car goes no where while the engine revs. I had the upgrade and it got rid of the shudder for the most part. I notice it a little bit, but it's tolerable. It also got rid of that rearended feeling. Sometimes I could let off the gas and it would feel like someone bumped me from behind. I would do the Lemon Law route again, except that Lexus will be more prepared this time. Since this is a manufacturers defect it isn't technically covered in the Texas Lemon Law. Also, after the upgrade it's a little harder to duplicate the problem consistently. A lot depends on your drive with the judge. In my first attempt, it was easy to duplicate things and the judge had no problem getting the transmission to fail. Unfortunately I was stupid enough to believe in Lexus and got another ES 300. I don't believe most cars have the problem. If you have the problem you will know it within days. Believe me, no special driving tricks will be necessary. Then get ready to contact a Lexus corporate rep and have him tell you it's all in your mind. Right Mowtownusa?
If you are trying to repeat the transmission problem on a Camry, please let us know. It is very important to us on this board to know.
You would not be the first one to assume the Camry is just like the ES300. That (mis)info is all over the place. And I know there would be no way for you to know otherwise unless you had driven both cars.
If you check the toyota website you would see that Camrys from 03 have the vvti 210 hp engine and 5 speed automatic tranny. I assume my car has that engine and transmission. Isn't that the same engine and transmission as the ES300?
but if no one on the Camry web site is complaining about the transmission, then there must be some difference between the designs.
An interesting experiment might be for someone like myself who can repeat the ES300 transmission problem without fail, to go try the same thing on a Camry.
I'd be rather perturbed if Toyota fixed the problem on the Camry, while not admitting there is one on the ES300.
My understanding is that the ES 300 transmission is only for that car. I've driven the Camry as a rental and had no problem with it. I've driven the RX 300 as a loaner and had no problem with it. I've driven the IS 300 as a loaner and had no problem. I've driven two loaner ES 300's and had the problem with one and did't have a noticeable problem with the other. Why would anyone driving a Camry give a rat's xxx about comments on this board?
I'm going in tomorrow to the dealership. A number of people aren't happy with the upgrade and they are trying to tweak the transmission. I'll let you know if it helps.
but you are out of line regarding your comments about who should be on this board. Motown's comments have been helpful, to me anyway. And it was you who did not pay attention to his post about Camrys.
That aside, I also appreciate your comments and don't want to see you get kicked off the board, either, which may just happen if you don't calm down a little. :-)
I leased my 2003 ES300 10 months ago. I experienced hesitation from a stop immediately. I have taken it in to have the software change downloaded. It seemed to improve for a few weeks but now it seems no better than before. I do not drive like a maniac. This car hesitates badly. Period.
I would be curious to know if the camry is also electronic throttle like the 300. Also, the NHTSA site lists TSB's for the 300. It claims the upgrade is for " Engine Control Module(ECM) calibration-shifting enhancement." Is the problem in the transmission (TCM), or the engine (ECM)? Anyone have a clue?
I am sure NHTSA would have forced Lexus to recall the ES300 as they have forced Ford to recall the Focus. I am not saying that the ES tranny is perfect, in fact the delay in the transmission downshift has been noted by the expert reviewers. All I am saying is that none of the reviewers have said this poses any safety concern. If you really think that the lemon law is on your side then by all means file a classs action lawsuit against Lexus.
I did put my name in a class action lawsuit. The thing is, I don't want my money back, I don't want a different car, I just want Lexus to make it drive the way it should for $35K. They have admitted a problem and refuse to stand behind their product! They even lie about the problem and say it doesn't exist on one day and bring out a repair the next day. A repair they have worked on for two years.How can you trust a company like that enough to spend big bucks on their product? The 300 is my wife's car, I have driven 400's since 1995. I love the 400's , my dealer is fantastic. The parent company is, apparently, without scruples or honor.
Like WRD, I just want my car to drive correctly. But, I would be interested in participating in some legal action if that's what it takes to get Lexus to support their product.
I went to the dealership yesterday and my rep said he thought they could make further adjustments, but he was wrong. There's nothing further coming. It was just a waste of my time.
I asked him if it was the same tranny as the Camry. He said he didn't know. I called a Toyota dealership today, and they said they didn't know. Sounds fishy to me.
Mowtownusa go drive your Camry. Atoews mind your own business. Really... I don't need your help or comments. Thank you.
All comments are welcome, even yours. Seems to me if someone doesn't agree with you, they are automaticly a Toyota plant. Which dealership did you go to? Northside, Westside, Sterling McCall? Just curious.
Believe it or not, I was not trying to help you. I personally appreciate your comments and don't want to see you get kicked off the board for my own sake.
Like Texas83, I only want my car to perform correctly. I have been driving (legally) since 1958 and I have owned dozens and driven hundreds of different cars. I have built cars from the ground up. Until the advent of computer controlled engines, I enjoyed working on engines and automobiles. I resent being told that the performance problems of my 300 do not exist or are the result of my driving style. I resent being told to take it out of overdrive and drive around the problem on my $35k mid-size luxury car.If the purpose of this particular message board is to deal with the problem and Lexus, than the nay-sayers are not helpful. When they persist in denying the existance of a problem, they arouse suspicion of their motives. Keep in mind that Lexus has admitted SOMETHING is different, they just not ready to call it a problem yet. When the automotive press starts to bring it to the publics attention, I am sure things will change, at least on cars yet to be built. Anyone have any answers to my questions in post # 292?
I just looked on the Edmunds RX330 site, and some owners are wondering if they should get the transmission software update since it is not reversible. It appears that the RX330 may have the same problem as the ES. Since the RX is the most popular Lexus, perhaps this will motivate Lexus management to assign one of their Six Sigma Black Belts to the problem.
I just looked on the Edmunds Toyota Highlander Problems site, and post #926 talks about the transmission problem. The owner took the car back to the dealer, and was told it is a problem with both Highlanders and Camrys.
Wrd - mind your own business please! I resent being referred to as a Lexus-plant, naysayer, or whatever comes to your mind any time you are upset with your car or with what you read on this website. Just because I mentioned that I choose to drive MY ES in 4th around town doesn't mean you have to take that as a reason to resent MY driving habits. I have made no reference to YOUR driving habits. Frankly, I think those of us with concerns about the way the transmission works on the ES would be further ahead directing frustrations to the source (Lexus) and quit being so paranoid about who might write something on this website.
mrrogers...you refer to RX330 owners reporting transmission shifting problems. I went over to that thread, but don't see anything listed under RX330. Did you mean the RX300? Looked there too, but didn't dig deeply enough to see what you noticed. The point is to clarify if this tranny problem has spread to the '04 model of the RX with the upgraded 3.3L engine. I test drove another ES330 the other day...I still don't notice any shifting irregularities.
Toydriver. Chill out. No offence meant, but, this IS my business. And anyone (not necessarily you) who continues to insist that there is no problem with the 300 after Lexus has admitted that there is a problem has to have questionable motives. Driving around in 4th gear was suggested earlier on this board as the cure. I prefer to put it in 5th and forget it. I do not feel that this is unreasonable in a automobile of this caliber and expense. Personally, I don't care if you drive around in reverse, just don't recommend it as the cure. With regard to driving habits MR.Touchy, check back to post #256 (by Driftracer, not Toydriver). And I HAVE brought my complaint to Lexus and NHTSA as mentioned earlier. At present I am being stonewalled by Lexus. Thats why I have put my name in to be included in a class-action suit. And a Happy Thanksgiving to you.
I took my wife's '01 in for brake pads today. Got a brand new ES330 (137 miles) as a loaner. I put about 50 miles on the car trying it out and attempting to make the transmission act up. I noticed it was a little "slowish" to downshift when I pushed the pedal to the floor from a stop or driving down the road, but otherwise seemed fine to me. Maybe they've fixed it. When driving the car "normally", the transmission performed perfectly. Fifty miles is a very short test and living with a car is different from am afternoon test drive. Nothing I noticed would keep me from buying the car. Just for the record, I'm pulling for Lexus. Our '01 is the best car we've ever owned. Good luck to those of you who have troubles.
OK, no offense taken. Since you are a very experienced driver and have built cars yourself, please explain why my car DOES have the shudder when the it downshifts from 5 to 4. The hesitency thing seems to vary from one day to the next - and seems to have been getting worse as I have put more miles on it (6K now). But I have NEVER noticed any "racing" of the rpms when accelerating as Texas and others have described. When I bought the car I noticed the shudder right away but didn't notice the hesitency thing for several months. As I said before, my '95 Avalon shifts much more smoothly than this new ES. Did you have the transmission upgrade? And if so, did it help any?
Earlier I listed three sites to report your problems to(car related only please). At the end of one of them, the NHTSA site or the Auto Safety site, there is a box to check if you would like to be part of a class-action suit. I have not heard anything in return. I don't know if anything will come of it, but, the more people that indicate a desire to participate, the more likely the chance that something will happen.
My hands-on experience ended with the advent of computer controlled engines and transmissions. The "adjustability" for the enthusiast was gone. And, to be honest, they are now better automobiles. My vehicle, as delivered, had a pronounced "shudder" at 40/45 mph. It was slightly noticeable at other speeds. A tech at my dealer told me that they were aware of the problem and that it was caused by a "lean mixture" to improve emissions. This bothered me because a mixture lean enough to cause a stumble will also, in time, burn valves and piston tops. Lexus Customer Service acknowledged the problem and said a cure would be available by July 2003. Other than the shudder, the car performed very well. When the upgrade became available, my car was the first one done by my dealership. For a couple of months, it drove differently every day. It has finely settled down, I hope, to its present level of performance. With regard to the 1/2 and 2/3 shifts, it will drive fine for hours and then suddenly, when accelerating from a stop, will sound and feel like a slipping transmission or clutch. Each shift taking 2 to 3 seconds. At any speed at which it is "locked up"(40mph+), if you put it to the floor as in a passing or avoidance situation,RPM climb, forward momentum slows, and the transmission takes its sweet time deciding on a gear to use. This takes about 3 to 4 seconds sometimes. When it finely decides, it takes off like a shot. Both problems are annoying, but, this second one could be very dangerous if you are about to be rear ended etc. If you were to ask me if I preferred upgrade or pre-upgrade it would be like asking me if I would prefer cancer in my right lung or my left lung. Hard to decide. I would prefer neither. And I would prefer my automobile to function as well as other automobiles.
I finally had a good chance to test the upgrade this past week since I have been on vacation. I had the upgrade done a couple of weeks ago and it seemed to be performing better. Specifically, I noted that the stumble when you accelerate quickly seemed to go away. However, now that I have had a chance to experience the upgrade over a couple of hundred miles, I am dissappointed. Old problems were replaced with new ones.
The overall impression is that the tranny is still clunky and does not respond the way you would expect it to. It seems to surge suddenly at different speeds now whereas it did not do that before. Also, the gas mileage while bad before has become worse. I am only getting 18 mpg with a mix of city and hwy driving.
Now that I have had the car for two years, my main hope is that the car holds up over time (e.g., this is the primary reason that I bought the car, quality). I will continue to post any new issues with the car.
Comments
Perhaps Lexus did this to get good EPA numbers, but since you are driving in 4th, the non-recommended way, you will take a gas mileage hit, perhaps small, but still there, not to mention increased wear and tear (since engine wear will be related to a parameter called piston travel per mile, and others) and noise and even increased CO2 and Nox emissions.
My opinion is that Lexus has a [non-permissible content removed] (technical term
I am sorry, but I cannot accept these "work-arounds" while letting Lexus off the hook.
Actually, my Lexus salesperson was the first one to suggest driving in this fashion. I will ask the service manager about his thoughts too. Anyway, the car seems to shift smoother when I drive in this way.
I agree with you that this is not a perfect situation, but we have committed our dollars to drive these cars so I will make the best of it. I applaud those who are trying to get the attention of Lexus.
More seriously, I agree with you that trying to make the best of the situation given the invested amount is the right thing to do, and you are also right that Lexus should be pushed to fix these cars for a problem that they will not admit to.
I do not have any issue with an ES300 anymore since I just traded mine in, and have since moved on in my vehicular life. I just want to continue to do my share in helpng others still stuck with the lousy drivetrain that is simply not what one would expect of a Lexus.
And, incidently, what do you think will happen to the resale value of these cars when the problem becomes public knowlege?
You are somehow under the assumption that because you have a "problem" with your transmission everybody else would also. What you might think is a problem could very well be the characteristic of the car. Just because it doesn't fit your driving style doesn't make it a problem. I personally drive an 03 Camry that has the same engine and transmission and it has been flawless. Then again I don't like to drive aggressively or stomp on the gas pedal all of a suddenly. Maybe if I did I could have felt the so called problem. Most ES300 owners don't drive like a maniac and therefore probably don't feel the "problem". If you really think the lemon law is on your side, sue Lexus again. Maybe this time Lexus will give you an ES330 or better yet an LS430.
I DON'T drive like a maniac!!
I've owned three ES300's and I NEVER had anything negative to say about the transmissions in any of them. I traded in my 1994 ES for an 2003 ES, and from day one I experienced what many of these other owners have experienced...shifting hesitations...transmission having problems deciding what gear to shift into, etc.
Funny, when I drive my wifes 2001 Toyota Corolla I enjoy how the transmission responds in all instances, and that car cost $25,000 less then my Lexus!
That's all that we're all looking for.....a car that responds properly to the input of the accelerator pedal.
True, I can overcome the inherent problems of this transmission, but why should I allow the car to think for me? I want to decide these things myself.
One other thing. I've driven over twenty 2002-3-4 ES's and everyone of them exhibited the same problems.
It doesn't matter whether I'm driving calmly or aggressivly.....it CAN be reproduced!
http://www.autosafety.org/fileacomplaint
http://www.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/.php
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv2.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=719&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=703&bmUID=1065148507227-
Whenever someone says "the ES300 is just like a Camry" they tend to forget to add the "except, except, except, except....."
could I take a ES330 for a couple of hours and
detect transmission problem? If I don't does
that mean I have one free of this problem.
Right now the ES330 is my next purchase. If I
can "find a good one" I'll feel a little better
about spending the money.
My opinion is that the hesitation is in every car and can be repeated on a test drive. It is a design problem, not an individual automobile problem.
that are test driving the ES330 are not picking
up on this problem. Most all reviews heap praises
on this car.I've done the BMW thing and having retired am ready for some long road miles. I'm
gonna try and detect the tranny glitch on my test drive. Probably purchase in mid January.
Will keep posted on what I find.
Anyway..... the problem I have is just like yours and others. It's periodic.... and varies from week to week, day to day and hour to hour. I mentioned there was a period when I thought it was fixed. In stop and go traffic I get a slip and surge that makes it hard to change lanes safely. This is at speeds from 5 to 20 mphs. I gently press the gas pedal and nothing..... then the car lurches forward a few feet. Also, like many others, I have run into problems where I needed to accelerate. The sensation is somewhat like putting the car in neutral and watching the RPM's float up, sometimes to redline. The car goes no where while the engine revs. I had the upgrade and it got rid of the shudder for the most part. I notice it a little bit, but it's tolerable. It also got rid of that rearended feeling. Sometimes I could let off the gas and it would feel like someone bumped me from behind. I would do the Lemon Law route again, except that Lexus will be more prepared this time. Since this is a manufacturers defect it isn't technically covered in the Texas Lemon Law. Also, after the upgrade it's a little harder to duplicate the problem consistently. A lot depends on your drive with the judge. In my first attempt, it was easy to duplicate things and the judge had no problem getting the transmission to fail. Unfortunately I was stupid enough to believe in Lexus and got another ES 300. I don't believe most cars have the problem. If you have the problem you will know it within days. Believe me, no special driving tricks will be necessary. Then get ready to contact a Lexus corporate rep and have him tell you it's all in your mind. Right Mowtownusa?
Note that on post 274, motown says "..I personally drive a Camry". Post 274 more than implies mowtown has been referring to a Camry all along.
If he is trying to repeat the problem in the Camry, assuming his car is identical to the ES300, it explains why he cannot repeat the problem!!
Then we can eliminate one "Lexus plant". :-)
You would not be the first one to assume the Camry is just like the ES300. That (mis)info is all over the place. And I know there would be no way for you to know otherwise unless you had driven both cars.
An interesting experiment might be for someone like myself who can repeat the ES300 transmission problem without fail, to go try the same thing on a Camry.
I'd be rather perturbed if Toyota fixed the problem on the Camry, while not admitting there is one on the ES300.
At least you are not a Lexus plant!!!! :-)
That aside, I also appreciate your comments and don't want to see you get kicked off the board, either, which may just happen if you don't calm down a little. :-)
And if these troubles don't rise to this level of merit, then a) grin (or frown) and bear it, or b) move on to another vehicle.
I went to the dealership yesterday and my rep said he thought they could make further adjustments, but he was wrong. There's nothing further coming. It was just a waste of my time.
I asked him if it was the same tranny as the Camry. He said he didn't know. I called a Toyota dealership today, and they said they didn't know. Sounds fishy to me.
Mowtownusa go drive your Camry. Atoews mind your own business. Really... I don't need your help or comments. Thank you.
Believe it or not, I was not trying to help you. I personally appreciate your comments and don't want to see you get kicked off the board for my own sake.
I find your info helpful, despite your rudeness.
Anyone have any answers to my questions in post # 292?
Frankly, I think those of us with concerns about the way the transmission works on the ES would be further ahead directing frustrations to the source (Lexus) and quit being so paranoid about who might write something on this website.
Since you are a very experienced driver and have built cars yourself, please explain why my car DOES have the shudder when the it downshifts from 5 to 4. The hesitency thing seems to vary from one day to the next - and
seems to have been getting worse as I have put more miles on it (6K now). But I have NEVER noticed any "racing" of the rpms when accelerating as Texas and others have described. When I bought the car I noticed the shudder right away but didn't notice the hesitency thing for several months. As I said before, my '95 Avalon shifts much more smoothly than this new ES.
Did you have the transmission upgrade? And if so, did it help any?
My vehicle, as delivered, had a pronounced "shudder" at 40/45 mph. It was slightly noticeable at other speeds. A tech at my dealer told me that they were aware of the problem and that it was caused by a "lean mixture" to improve emissions. This bothered me because a mixture lean enough to cause a stumble will also, in time, burn valves and piston tops. Lexus Customer Service acknowledged the problem and said a cure would be available by July 2003. Other than the shudder, the car performed very well. When the upgrade became available, my car was the first one done by my dealership. For a couple of months, it drove differently every day. It has finely settled down, I hope, to its present level of performance. With regard to the 1/2 and 2/3 shifts, it will drive fine for hours and then suddenly, when accelerating from a stop, will sound and feel like a slipping transmission or clutch. Each shift taking 2 to 3 seconds. At any speed at which it is "locked up"(40mph+), if you put it to the floor as in a passing or avoidance situation,RPM climb, forward momentum slows, and the transmission takes its sweet time deciding on a gear to use. This takes about 3 to 4 seconds sometimes. When it finely decides, it takes off like a shot. Both problems are annoying, but, this second one could be very dangerous if you are about to be rear ended etc. If you were to ask me if I preferred upgrade or pre-upgrade it would be like asking me if I would prefer cancer in my right lung or my left lung. Hard to decide. I would prefer neither. And I would prefer my automobile to function as well as other automobiles.
The overall impression is that the tranny is still clunky and does not respond the way you would expect it to. It seems to surge suddenly at different speeds now whereas it did not do that before. Also, the gas mileage while bad before has become worse. I am only getting 18 mpg with a mix of city and hwy driving.
Now that I have had the car for two years, my main hope is that the car holds up over time (e.g., this is the primary reason that I bought the car, quality). I will continue to post any new issues with the car.