Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

toydriver · November 2003

Would you say that it is worse than before the "upgrade"? I am contemplating having the upgrade but am reconsidering after hearing from a few like you who still report issues that may be worse than before it was done. My main complaint is the surge between 5 and 4 during deceleration. The hesitation while shifting seems to vary from day to day. While I'm not happy with it, I don't want to make it worse. Others have said that the surge thing gets better with the upgrade but you seem to have a different experience. Can you explain what you mean by "stumble when you quickly accelerat"?? Some have describe a 3-4 second lack of response while merging in traffic that could be dangerous.

missyhope · November 2003

I test drove the 2004 ES 330 today. I noticed that when stepping on the gas, it seemed to hesitate until the car responded... just a bit, but I noticed it. Is this the tranny issue that I've read about in some reviews, and does it happen on all of them or just a few?

es300trans · November 2003

I would have to say that I like the car better with the upgrade, but don't expect too much from it. It is still as clunky as ever. I had never experienced the surging before until I had the upgrade. The stumble that I am referencing occurs when you punch it from a dead stop. It would hesitate and stumble for a few seconds before kicking in. This issue seems to have gone away. Also, it seems to hesitate less at other speeds when one quickly accelerates. I would give it a try. It is definitely better than before, just not that much better. Hope this helps.

Good Luck!

toydriver · November 2003

Thanks for the input. I will probably do the upgrade during the next scheduled service. Will let you know my impressions.

rtorreca · November 2003

Had the update done last friday and noticed no improvement whatsoever. Hesitation, shudder, and lunging still present. I think it made it somewhat worse. I'm fed up with this problem. The only resort to get rid of the problem is to get rid of the car. I can't afford another new car at this price range to replace this so I will probably sell this POS at a loss and buy a honda accord LX or a Camry CE.

wrd · December 2003

Before you buy a Toyota product, remember how you were treated by Lexus, a division of Toyota. My wife drove Honda Accords exclusivly for 23 years, both owned and leased. Excellent automobile, almost totally trouble free, but, not in the same class as a ES300 for comfort or luxury. Though the seats in the new ones are a major improvement over earlier models.

toydriver · December 2003

I own an older model avalon and have driven a relative's '97 accordEX. Those aren't in the same ballpark imo. The avalon, even though 2 yrs older and 20K more miles is clearly a nicer and better performing car (the accord owner agrees with me). (The older avalons were more similar to the camry than the newer models).
Neither the camry or accord can compare to the ES for comfort, quiet, smooth ride, etc.
If I was as unhappy with the ES transmission issues as some, I think I would look at a European option - Volkswagen Passat, Audi A4, BMW 3series, Volvo S60 to name a few. Remember if you don't like the ES transmission, the new Camry drive train is basically the same.

rtorreca · December 2003

I never said they were in the same ballpark...Yes, the ES has a more luxo interior but it's transmission is anything but.

As I mentioned in my last post, I have to sell my ES at a loss and can no longer afford a car in this price range, hence "trading-down" to an accord or camry. At least they have a decent transmission. (Heck my 92 Mitsu Mirage POS had a better tranny that my ES!) I believe the Camry does not have the drive-by-wire tranny making it less problematic than the ES.

My previous car was a 99 honda accord v6 and it was problem-free. My bro-in-law has this same car and has over 100,000 miles without any problems.

wrd - I think the ES having a problematic transmission is an exception in the otherwise smooth trannies of the toyota line. There are currently 5 toyotas in my family: 2 corollas (2 sisters), 1 matrix (another sister), 1 rav4 (my mother), and my ES. I drove all their cars and all have proper working transmissions. Only the ES, the one that's supposed to top all these "lower-end" models, the luxury brand, does not drive well.

What did I learn after all this? Paying more for a car does not mean you get more. That is why I am giving up luxury cars altogether. It just ain't worth it (to me).

texas83 · December 2003

I was driving out of town over the holidays. You know you've got problems with your passengers comment on the slip and surge. I have driven numerous cars over 26 years, but I have never seen a piece of junk like this transmission. Rtorreca glad to see you back. I missed your comments, but am sorry to hear you still have the problem. Your symptoms seemed to match mine more than others. I wish I could find an attorney. So far the ones I've found all want me to make them a millionaire, or no case. That's not my objective.

Someone asked me where I got my car. Originally, I got it on an internet deal from Dallas. Then I took it to Lemon Law court and gave it back to Lexus. The '03 I have came from Westside. After dealing with them a few months, I have found I get far better service at Sterling McCall. Sterling has been empathetic to the problem and my service rider was shocked when I told them Lexus now denies there is now, or ever was, a problem. Lexus corporate says that any dealers who say anything different are now misinformed.

toydriver · December 2003

Aren't all the toyota 5sp auto transmissions "drive by wire"? I believe the 2004 camry 3L 6cylinder engines come with the 5sp transmission which sounds like the same drivetrain as the '02-'03ES. I think the '03 camry V6 had the older 4sp tranny. I owned a '01 camry ce with 4 cylinder which shifted very smooth but was relatively weak.
BTW did you notice previous posts referencing complaints from RX330 and Highlander owners about the shifting? I assume the they also use the same drive train as the new '04 ES.

rtorreca · December 2003

thanks for the heads up. I'm really not too sure which Toyota models are "drive-by-wire" but whatever those may be, I'm staying away from them.

docbuckeye · December 2003

Sorry to butt in on a Lexus discussion, I drive a 2003 Camry XLE V6, 5 spd tranny, 3K miles. I believe has the same engine and tranny as the ES300, and it sounds like the same problems too. The first Toyota I've owned, and I've always thought the acceleration was a little "odd". When you gun it from a start or on the highway, the transmission seems to have a "hold on and gimme a second until I figure out if I agree with you or not" attitude. The power drops off for a few seconds while it makes up its mind and then rockets off like a horse out of a barn. It's not for a lack of power, because the car has spun it's tires on a dry freeway when accelerating from 60 mph. It's just not smooth. I didn't think much of it until I was given an 03 Avalon as a loaner car recently and noticed no similar problems. The Camry does have the "drive-by-wire" technology mentioned in an earlier post. Is that the source? Anyway, just wanted to mention this as many of you seem to be thinking about switching from the ES300 to a Camry. You might not be solving your problem.

texas83 · December 2003

Have you ever tried to accelerate and have the RPM's fly up like you're in neutral, but the car hardly moves?

docbuckeye · December 2003

Yep, that's exactly what happens. And once the transmission does kick in, the RPMs are so high that the tires spin sometimes. Check out the reply to a similar post I placed in the Toyota Camry "Problems and Solutions" group. Could be the "drive-by-wire", or just low mileage.

riskyb · December 2003

I have had my new ES330 for 8 days now and Im happy to report there is NO similarity or incidence of "stupid transmission" on this car like often reported on the previous ES300 model. Didnt notice it at all when I did a couple test drives on two different vehicles prior to purchase either. Lexus reports they used a wider gear ratio (hardware application) and a totally revised software version in the new ES330. The problem previously reported is simply no longer existent. It shifts smmmmmmoooth! Quite zippy in the higher gears too.

One comment I do have: There is not the immediate "zip" off the starting line like I had in my 99 3.0L engine Toyota Avalon XLS, and experienced in separate test drives of a used Lexus GS300. Rather, the ES330 starts just slightly soft off the line, but not "clunky", and then hits its real zip once its going in higher gears. There seems to be MUCH more power once its rev'd up into 2nd gear than right off the line in 1st, though there is "some" decent response there. Not as good as my '99 Toyota Avalon XLS though. But the ride is not comparable. There is no comparison! I believe this slightly soft-start is likely related to the throttle by wire design of the car. When I bring it in for 1000 mile service I plan to ask about it. Anyone who has driven a new ES330 have an opinion?

lexusrock · December 2003

on this thread you'd find that many people who had tranny issues with 300 still feel it on 330 during testing. However, that's not to say any 330 or any 300 for that matter, has the problem. Your experience on 330 seems to fit my 300 as well. I've tried to verify that shudder or sudden shifting or low-no response to no avail. It's just a smooth operator. Enjoy your new car or love as it seems.

motownusa · December 2003

The chat rooms are filled with these urban legends.

riskyb · December 2003

Not only did I read the "last few threads" on this discussion group, before I purchased my ES330 10 days ago, I read EVERY one of them right back to the beginning. What's more, I read every single post of all four Lexus ES330 discussion groups before purchasing. And then I read everything on the ES300 discussion groups. Took a few days but there was lots of good info, views and criticisms read during this time which really helped me make my decision. Thanks to all for the contributions. There is no better quality discussion groups than the ones I have found on Edmunds.

In this time I have read literally dozens of descriptions and interpretations of the reported tranny probs for both the ES300 and 330 and they certainly seem valid. My point is that on the ES330 I purchased, as well as on two separate ES330 models I test drove, I did not experience stupid or klunky tranny in any form whatsoever. My statement is nothing more than that.

In the ES330 I currently own, I have driven 170 miles in city, on highway, in traffic, uphill, downhill, fast, slow, really fast, day, night... even rain. I just have not been able to experience anything that has been reported in the dozens of posts I have read... and believe me... I have definetly been looking for it! All I have found is very smooth quiet shifting in all conditions and gears. Therefore I suspect Lexus has corrected the problem. It's hard to imagine they have only done the fix on select ES330's. Can their QC be that poor? I'm hoping to help future ES330 purchasers who have been hesitant to purchase as I was. I dont think there is anything to fear as far as the new revised tranny goes.

As far as my new love? Thats not my ES330, but I certainly do like it alot. My real love is the new GS sedan which Lexus will be unveiling next year. Despite lots of auto show concept car photos and guessing, no one has actually seen it yet... but I love it anyway! I bet ten bucks it will be beautiful and powerful. I want one! Looks like I have to wait a year or two so my ES330 will keep me company til then. She's my mistress.

kreativ · December 2003

I'm waiting on the new GS too. It should be a winner.

Like lexusrock, I must be missing the point of your post as well. As you appear to be claiming that the issues with the transmission have gone away with the ES330 without having actually driven and noticed the issues on an ES300 in the first place. There are plenty of ES300 drivers who feel the same about the tranny as you do (i.e. tranny is smooth as silk). Those who do notice the issues on the ES300 and have test driven the ES330 are reporting that the issues are still there.

lexusrock · December 2003

to not trying to generalize any thing. Just take you car as it is. If you like it then it's all that better. If you don't you try to deal with it, and that can be from calling lawyers to just avoid D drive as you can. I know it's hard to believe such variations out of assembly lines from either hardware or even software prespectives, but who knows. If you really want to 'resolve' it you'd need guys like texas83 or vcheng, who definitely feels it, to test drive your car and say, 'here, this is it', or 'darn, you really don't have it.' Until then, it's just a mistery, or a 'he said, she said' thing.

toydriver · December 2003

To further complicate the issue, I'm fully convinced that my '03ES shifted better when it was first new than it does now with 6700 miles on it.
Like you, I also read all the posts prior to purchasing it in May '03. I was completely satisfied for the first 3-4K when the clunks and hesitation started. Mine doesn't seem to have all the symptoms others have described, but something has changed. I haven't had the computer upgrade yet, nor have I disconnected the battery cable to reset the computer as was suggested on the Toyota Camry website. Hopefully for you, your 330 will continue to behave.

texas83 · December 2003

Anyone who says there's no problem with the transmission is pure crazy. How can anyone ignore two years of complaints on the main board here, plus have a specific chat site set up only to handle the transmssion issue. I believe a lot of the nay sayers are Lexus/Toyota plants doing damage control. Or, other people so immature that they simply want to wave in others faces that they aren't having the problem. Kind of like laughing at a cripple. My car can go up to two weeks with no problem. Then when I need power...... there's nothing. Or I can go into stop and go traffic and I get that wonderful slip and surge sensation. That's what I paid top dollar for????? It's not just me.... others in my car have commented on the problem. I believe most of the cars work okay. But, if there was no problem why was Lexus constantly promising to fix the Transmission? Why have there been two years of complaints? Please..... go pedal your tricycles somewhere else. It really gets old.

tmart · December 2003

Just because everyone here doesn't agree with you does not mean they are crazy or a Lexus/Toyota plant. I'm sure YOU have a problem with your car, but it doesn't mean everyone does. Appears the ones having problems are a relatively small minority, and not the majority of owners. I'm definitely NOT a plant by Lexus or Toyota, nor am I crazy. Fortunately, my wife has a '00 ES300 with the "old" tranny which is fine, as is the rest of the car.

riskyb · December 2003

There was little question in my mind that the ES300 has a tranny problem, but now after reading a few of the recent previous posts I'm absolutely convinced of this fact. ES300 owners are really ticked off!!! It comes out clearly in the wording.

No, I dont work for Lexus or Toyota, though I have owned Toyotas for the last 12 years and have some degree of loyalty due to years of good experience and low maintainance costs.

Simply stated, I drive ALOT and have ample technical proficiency and comprehension. My '04 ES330 simply doesnt exhibit any problems with the shifting in a variety of terrains, speeds and conditions. It always is quite smooth and you really have to focus closely just to sense when it does shift. I don't know what else to say! Perhaps I can express sympathy that you purchased your ES prior to '04?

kreativ · December 2003

For someone without any driving experience in an ES300 and with under 200 miles in an ES330, it's ridiculous to claim there was undoubtedly a problem with the ES300 transmission and it's been fixed in the ES330.

If you want to know whether the reported issues have been remedied in the ES330, talk to someone who can actually faithfully recognize and reproduce the issues in the ES300. Then see if they've test driven an ES330. So far, those who have done so report the same symptoms in the ES330.

motownusa · December 2003

to create the problem? If it exists it should show up regardless of how you drive the car. If I am driving at 35 mph and then all of a sudden I stomp the gas I can make just about any transmission hesitate. All the posts talk about "reproducing" the problem as if it doesn't exist when you drive the car the way it was suppose to.

Texas83, I get the feeling you are the one who is a mole of the big three trying to tarnish the image of Lexus. If you have such an airtight case against Lexus, why are the lawyers afraid to take your case to the courts. Secondly, why isn't there a recall on the ES300/330 transmission if it is so bad? Isn't the NHTSB aware of the transmission issue? Thirdly, why does it get high ratings from both Consumer Reports and JD Power. The people who fill out those surveys own the very same cars some of you are complaining about.

lexusrock · December 2003

came out clearly in his own words better actually....... with some selective acceptance of course. Any complaint on 300 is legit, as hey I don't own that, but any complaint on 330? No no, I have that and I don't and I can't have that problem! It's one thing that you're glad because you don't have the problem (good for you), but it's quite another when you're glad because you 'want' to think yours is better than anybody else.

wilmill · December 2003

My seven month experience with Lexus and it's refusal to acknowledge a serious problem in their software resulting in a pronounced hesitation when the accelerator is fully depressed is over. My posts (160,165,168 and169) led me to take my case to the Fl. Attorney General's Office where I filled out the few forms required to meet the Fl. Lemon Law. I was afforded the chance to present my case before three impartial arbiters, who also test drove the car. Three days later, I was notified of their findings. They not only directed Lexus to buy me out of the lease, which is all I requested, but gave me back all of my lease payments. I just deposited the check this morning after bringing the ES 300 back to the dealer. No attorney's were ever involved. Every person I spoke with from the Fl. Better Business Bureau who oversee this statute was professional and extremely helpful. I encourage anyone who has problems with their vehicle to pursue this remedy if their state offers it. Good luck to all.

motownusa · December 2003

Then the national media would have been all over Lexus as they have been over Ford regarding the Focus or the Explorer and the Firestone tire fiasco. There is NO RECALL on the transmission,the reviews I have read generally gave the car a good review. All the so called problems seem to exist in these automotive chat rooms. Any 2nd grader knows that people ranting or raving about a car's shortcomings in these forums is not a representative sample of the actual number of people who are having problems. My feelings are very few people probably <5% are having these "problem". Those same people get upset when the other 95% don't feel the problem. As if it is their fault their cars don't have the problem

tmart · December 2003

toydriver · December 2003

Has anybody else experienced progression in the clunkiness and hesitation over time? Mine seems worse now that I have over 6Kmi. I noticed on the Camry site something about the transmission getting better with time as it "breaks in". My experience is the opposite.
Texas 83 and atoews, how many miles on your cars now and what do you think about this??

texas83 · December 2003

I've talked to a number of attorney's and they've all said it sounds like I have a pretty good case. The problem is that my case won't make them a million dollars with little effort and I can't present any injured or dead bodies, although they probably exist.

This car transmission is a piece of junk. It so sad because everything else about the car is great. I would dissuade anyone from buying this car, and have done so on many occasions proudly costing Lexus sales. I'd go the Lemon Law route again like I did last time, but the upgrade has improved things enough where I can't duplicate the problem on a consistent basis. When it does happen, believe me, you don't have to drive it any certain way. You can't believe it, and the passengers in your car notice it. Sometimes it takes a serious accident to get people's attention. I came close several times in my '02, and came close once in my '03. The lemon law judge that drove my '02 noticed the problem when the transmission failed twice for him. I guess you think he didn't know what he was doing, but the result was that Lexus most reluctantly gave me an '03. Sadly... now I wish I'd asked for my money back. Ask yourself how many people died before the press picked up on those cars you mentioned and then a recall was made.

texas83 · December 2003

I noticed the problem after about a week of driving.

moc3 · December 2003

I am researching a 2000 Camry XLE, ES 300 and an Acura 3.2 TL. The commentary on this board concerning transmission problems in the ES 300 are an obvious concern. From scanning the postings I cannot tell if the problems described (hesitation on acceleration and shudders while cruising) are common to all ES 300's or the later models, 2002 and on. Has anyone experienced the transmission problem in the 2000 ES 300 or heard about it?

toydriver · December 2003

Seems to be peculiar to the '02, '03 ES300 and possibly the new '04 ES330.

atoews · December 2003

Oh, yes, the problem is not in pre-2002 ES300s.

I have driven multiple 02 ES300s, brand new. I can recreate the problem in all of them at will.

As far as the problem happening on its own - all I can say is that it is unpredictable when it will just all of a sudden happen.

I do not see a progression; just a symptom that intermittantly happens. And, since I can repeat it, I know it has something to do with the way I am driving at the time.

By the way, I have not had the fix, and I have never driven an ES330.

I test drove a vehicle at a dealer in Michigan, and the sales rep insisted that he had never heard of a problem. Well, I took him for a test drive, repeated the problem and he agreed that it is there.

I am convinced that I could take any of your 02 ES300s and show you the problem, and you, like the dealer, would see that it is there. Too bad I can't test that assumption. :-)

atoews · December 2003

Is like gun control or abortion. Controversial as heck!!

texas83 · December 2003

I can say the problems I had in my '02 were different than my '03. In my '02 the main problem I had was a failure of communication between the engine and the transmission. I could press the gas pedal and the RPM's would fly up like I was in neutral. Another words I needed to move but the car wouldn't go. I never had any shudder, and I never felt that occasional jolt like I'd been bumped in the rear end. Every now and then there would be some slip and surge in slow traffic. In my '03 the big problem I have is the slip and surge. It makes it really precarious to negotiate stop and go traffic. My '03 also had a bad shudder and that rear end bump others have complained about but it went away after the upgrade. Like I say my '02 never did those two things. Occasionally I get the free spinning RPM when I need power. I saw a difference between the two cars. Both should not happen at all. From time to time, my car drives fine, but I'm always left with that sinking feeling while driving that something is going to go wrong. The irony is I bought a Lexus so as to avoid things like this.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Actually a 5% failure rate on a major component would be a serious defect for a manufacturer.

dardson1 · December 2003

I should just stop reading this message board. Our near perfect '01 ES300's lease is up next month. After 3 years of trouble-free driving I'm tempted to keep my '01. I drove an '04 all day a few weeks ago and it seemed fine to me. Now I see suggestions that you can't judge the car by driving a new one as it gets worse as the miles grow.
In this litigious society, I find it hard to believe that the legal eagles (who love to do such things) have not started a class-action suit if all the transmission woes are true. A dangerous condition where a vehicle refuses to respond for 4/5/6 seconds ought to be a golden opportunity for an ambitious law firm. The biggest slam I can find is CR's reliability downgrade of the ES transmission from "much better than average" half a notch to "better than average". A number of reviewers mention the car is slowish to downshift, and Edmunds at one point called it sloppy.
I suspect Lexus has a weak-spot with their transmission. I'm convinced I'd see front page headlines if the ES was a dangerous vehicle. The press loves that kinda stuff.

motownusa · December 2003

While these forums are a good place for people to vent their opinion, always take them with a grain of salt. Actually, the latest CR (New Car Preview 2004) gave the transmission a much better than average rating, the very best rating(Full red circle). The better than average rating was for the 02 model when the ES was completely re designed. Whether the transmission is weak or not I think is subjective. The 5 speed auto in my 03 Camry (same as the ES) is plenty responsive for my driving habit. Then again, I take it easy on the road.

wrd · December 2003

Actually, Lexus has openly stated that one in twelve 02/03 ES300 owners have a reported a problem with shifting response. I think that works out to about 8.3% of owners. And then there are the owners who wouldn't recognize a problem, no matter how bad it was. e.g. a new Caddy sedan coming through town the other morning, it's left front tire flat to the rim. He was headed for Interstate 95. I got out of my car at a light, knocked on his window and told him. His response? "Really, I wasn't aware."

texas83 · December 2003

You don't even drive this car. What do you stand to gain, by trying to keep all of these unhappy people from posting on this board?

texas83 · December 2003

I definitely wouldn't buy this car. In fact, I would love to get my money back now that Lexus has completely reversed their stand on this car. They used to promise they would fix it. Now after two years of promises, they say there never has been a problem and dealers who had been making these promises were misinformed.

You can't trust a test drive. My car has gone up to two weeks with no problem at all. I don't know what causes it to start acting up, and I don't know why it stops. I can only say I think it's dangerous when it does happen.

motownusa · December 2003

I don't own an ES but my uncle does. I have driven that car at least 7 or 8 times in the last two years. The car is absolutely perfect. I said this before and I am saying it again my 03 Camry has THE SAME ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION the ES 300 has. 210 Hp VVti and 5 speed ECT-i. THAT IS THE SAME ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION THE ES 300 has. I don't know who told you that the Camry engine and tranny are different. They are not. This engine and transmission has been out for about 10 months. Check the Camry board and you will see no similar problems regarding the Camry's transmission. And finally ES is now called the 330 I am sure you know that. That same V6 also powers the 04 Solara. I read probably 3 or 4 reviews ranging from Car and Driver to Consumer Reports. Everbody praised the engine and transmission. Not a single criticism on transmission performance. In fact, C&D clocked the Solara's 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. I think you are doing people a disservice when you tell them to stay away from a car that has been highly rated by both Consumer Reports and JD Powers. I am sure those people know what they are talking about

mrrogers · December 2003

If you go back to my post # 303 on this board, you will see where I mention that the both the Camry and the Highlander have this problem. The RX330 also has the problem.

motownusa · December 2003

one post from one person. And I should believe you because you said so? I guess the people from Consumer Reports and JD Powers are either high on weeds or mole of Lexus.

cxc · December 2003

I suspect if a person who has no transmission problems with 2002 ES300 really owns one or has driven one for a few months or so. I have a 2002 ES 300 that still has transmission problems even after updating the software. Keeping in mind that the people from Consumer Reports have not driven 2002 ES300, 2003 ES300 and 2004 ES330 for many months or a year while JD Powers has not reported the first year ownership experience of 2002 ES300, 2003 ES300 and 2004 ES330. This Town Hall is one of the places that a consumer can get the information that Consumer Report and JD Powers do not report, has not reported, or do not want to report. The quality of the 2002 ES300 that I own is really poor: (1)Warpped rotors; (2)Rattle under glove box; (3)Leaking power steering pump; (4) Unpredictable transmission behaviors.

wrd · December 2003

FYI. Warped rotors are a known defect with the 02. Soon after purchase, mine were warped. I asked about it and they turned them at no charge. Later they replaced them and the pads at no charge without my even mentioning them. The new rotors do not rust ever and seem to stop better. There are several known rattle problems with the 02. Complain to your service department. They are aware of them and have TSB's to fix them. A leaking power steering pump should be replaced under warranty. Transmission? You are up the creek with the rest of us.

wrd · December 2003

Look behind the glove compartment of your Camry. The Engine Control Computer is mounted there on the right side. Write down the part number and post it. It may explain the difference.

Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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