Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

hondafriek · January 2004

If you get stuck in an AWD subaru that also has an LSD you should think about giving up driving altogether.

Cheers Pat.

blackbean · January 2004

I have an '02 LL Bean (AT), which I believe has AWD and an LSD rear (is this correct?).
Juice had said "AWD/4WD with one LSD and one open diffy, make it 3 wheels"
but I got hung up in heavy snow (on top of ice) last year and only two wheels (on opposite corners) would spin - the other two were stopped (I guess they had "traction")
Can any one clue me in here for this particualr model?
Thanks,
Matt

pnassmac · January 2004

"Traction control is primarily to prevent slipping while accelerating from a stop..."

That would be it!

PPEK: Thanks for the link. Helpful.

HodaFr???: Don't care what your opinion is - IMHO.

ATE????: Also helpful.

ateixeira · January 2004

Matt: on the front axle, one wheel would spin freely.

On the rear axle, though, the LSD should make the 2nd side grab once the first side started spinning. Otherwise the differential is not functioning as it should.

You can test it - get jack stands, and get all 4 wheel off the ground. Put it in neutral and release the hand brake. Of course first make sure the vehicle is very secure.

Now turn one of the rear wheels manually. About a half turn later, the LSD should grab and the other side should begin to turn with it.

I don't think the front axle will spin since it's an automatic, but I'd lift that too just to be safe. If it were a 5MT, my guess is the front wheels would begin to spin also!

I tried this on my Miata, which has a rear viscous LSD, and it worked. Pretty neat. You could feel it grab the other wheel and they started turning together. That's how it's meant to function.

-juice

goneskiian · January 2004

One of my favorite sites on learning how something operates...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

Enjoy!
-Ian

zman · January 2004

Chicago's a week away. Who all is going and are we going to be able to get coverage like Detroit?

Zman

subearu · January 2004

I'm going on the 9th (at least that's my plan) as just a regular 'Joe' consumer :-)

I have a 256mb xd card in my Kodak, so I'll be taking plenty of pictures. Anything in mind you want photographed that hasn't been?

-Brian

blackbean · January 2004

Thanks Juice - I'll try that sometime

Thanks Ian - that is a great website!

Question - Does the the LL Bean (AT) have a mechanical clutch-type rear LSD? I know that the center is viscous and I am pretty sure the rear is not a Torsen. If it is a clutch-type, is it possible for clutch plates, throw-out bearing etc. to go bad? Can you replace as on a regular clutch or must the whole unit be replaced?

Thanks!
Matt

ateixeira · January 2004

No torsens, Audi does those. You have a fluid-filled rear differential, when sides spin at different speeds it shears the fluid, which thickens up and temporarily lock the sides together.

It's sealed and maintenance-free, so failure is pretty rear, but it's possible. Try the test, it's pretty cool to "feel" it working.

-juice

zman · January 2004

Thanks. I know I'm most interested in the Outback XT, though predominantly technical stuff. I'm guessing, or at least hoping, that the styling is is not too far off from the OZ models (the US models will be higher, I know).

Zman

sebberry · January 2004

The Bean has a multi-plate transfer clutch center "differential", not a viscous type. (I put differential in quotes because it is not a true differential.)

This system is commonly refered to as Active All-Wheel Drive, as the vehicle can actively vary the amount of torque sent to the rear wheels based on acceleration, front wheel slip and gear.

The viscous coupling center differential is found on the manual transmission cars only. When there is a rotational difference between the front and rear axles (front wheels spinning for example) the viscous fluid effectively locks the two axles together and sends power where it becomes useful.

The main difference between the two systems is that one is proactive, and the other is reactive. The Bean's proactive system sends power rearward before wheels slip, and the viscous system can only send power rearward if there is slippage.

Hope that helps,

subewannabe · January 2004

I'd be most interested in your observations as to why the new OB is the right choice for folks with family, dogs, etc., considering a Mazda MPV for room,sporty handling and practicality vs 05 Legacy for AWD performance. No problem, eh?

mark

subearu · January 2004

We have an '00 Outback (mine) and a '02 MPV (hers). I'm actually considering a Forester XT to replace my Outback this year.

I'll do my best and get some good photos of the Outback(s). Keep the requests coming until 2/9/04.

-Brian

ateixeira · January 2004

Uh-oh, if Brian gets an XT, that means all of my friends will have the car that I've wanted all along, except me! ;-)

-juice

subearu · January 2004

but I'm not planning anything until April-ish, so you could get one before me. ;-)

-Brian

trueawd · January 2004

I heard another tid bit today from my local guy.

The 05 Outback is supposed to have increased towing capacity.

4cyl is supposed to go up from 2000lbs to 2700lbs and the Outback 6cyl is supposed to go up from 2000lbs to 3000lbs. That would be sweet! I know that would help sales.

6 more days!!!!

rsholland · February 2004

I would assume the unbraked towing would remain at 1000lbs however.

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

would put it right up there with Volvo and some other mid-sized European cars. The Volvo S60/V70/S80 are rated at 3300lbs for braked towing, IIRC.

Bob

mutsuraboshi · February 2004

The Ausie spec Outback H6 gets 1800kg braked towing, or approx 4000lbs.
Everyone else should get that too....?

Luch

ateixeira · February 2004

Well, the current H6 tows 2400 lbs, so if he was inaccurate about that, we shouldn't get our hopes up.

-juice

mattkpsu · February 2004

Just sat in the new Legacy at the Philly auto show. I was sold. They were only letting people sit in the wagon, not the sedan. Anyone know some pricing on a 5sp Legacy GT sedan? It looked like a big improvement over the last in almost every way. I wish I could have seen the base interior w/o leather, for comparison. I hope that they keep the price in the 26-28000 range, not 29-31000!

ateixeira · February 2004

I think street prices will be in that ball park. The current 2.5GT is equipped like the new GT Limited, so a base GT could potentially cost the same, no more, than the 2004 2.5GT.

-juice

kevin111 · February 2004

Very impressed with the new Legacy! Looks good too! I think Car and Driver was talking about $29K for a GT at MSRP. Whether this is the Limited or not, not sure.

Basically, the car is a S60R with a +$10K discount and reliability.

Subaru is talking about a 0-60 of 5.5 secs, which is exactly what the S60R does. Plus it would be at least a 50/50 split AWD or the VDC vs. the 90/10 split of the S60R.

And people wonder why there are repeat buyers of Subis??

otis123 · February 2004

:-)

rsholland · February 2004

over in future models thread.

Bob

otis123 · February 2004

rsholland · February 2004

They work there.

rsholland "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" Feb 3, 2004 9:34am

Bob

otis123 · February 2004

Now that's a spy shot if I ever saw one!!!

pon1 · February 2004

Anyone care to speculate how the pricing will go on the new OB with respect to the Forester XT, will it be??

OB base < FXT < OBXT

Reason, I may need to decide soon and the FXT is already at the top of my affordability, plus more likley get a deal on the Forester, as it's not new anymore.

raybear · February 2004

You can get an XT below invoice if you catch the right dealer at the right time. I doubt the 2005 Outback will see such deals in the near future. Of course, it depends on what a "deal" really is. If it's just about price, buy a TS wagon.

pon1 · February 2004

Anyone care to speculate how the pricing will go on the new OB with respect to the Forester XT, will it be??

OB base < FXT < OBXT

Reason, I may need to decide soon and the FXT is already at the top of my affordability, plus more likley get a deal on the Forester, as it's not new anymore.

pon1 · February 2004

Not about price alone.....and I already have a Forester L so going down to a smaller TS wagon is not likely. This time I want a Turbo.

I was just wondering if there is liklely to be any or just a small difference in MSRP between the FXT and OBT, so I can make a (preliminary) choice based just on size, features, etc without price playing too great part. If the OBT is significantly more $$, I can go ahead and buy a FXT without even considering the OB.

chassol · February 2004

This says it all - DUE SPRING 2004 -

http://www.need-desire.com/main.html

Big question what is the price?

cusafr · February 2004

I have looked this over several times. The only difference I can find is the Limited has Leather. It may be there, but that is the only difference I see. How about you?

Also, would sure like to know the Price(s).

CUSAFR

ateixeira · February 2004

Spring is great news, I'd been hearing June before.

I do think the OB and Leg turbos will cost more than the Forester XT.

But I could be wrong - Baja turbo sells for less than the XT...

-juice

robr2 · February 2004

Most of June technically is spring!!

ateixeira · February 2004

Yeah, watch, it'll arrive on the *last day* of spring! LOL

-juice

njswamplands · February 2004

buddhabman · February 2004

One more day until we have all the official news on the 2005 Legacies/Outbacks. Then we will wait for a week or two before the US media test drives. I hope the cars are well received. I am most interested in the interior upgrades though, I think this will project for the future for Subarus hopes to be considered upscale - premium.

dcm61 · February 2004

I guess you haven't been over to Subaru Crew: Future Models II yet. The OB debuted this morning at Chicago. :-)

DaveM

subearu · February 2004

you can check http://www.need-desire.com - that's the micro-site for the new Legacy and Outback. Plenty of pics and info there for you.

-Brian

nowakj66 · February 2004

I signed up for both Legacy and Outback 2005 mini brochures on need-desire. I got the Legacy obne pretty quickly. Anyone get a 2005 Outback monibrochure yet?

redkey1 · February 2004

Any idea when the legacy will hit showrooms? I am in need of a new car soon and the wait is killing me!

prayerfor · February 2004

I think the new Legacy models are expected in showrooms late spring (May/June).

The press release at media.subaru.com might have more accurate info.

ateixeira · February 2004

One rumor was pretty specific, it said May 17 for the Outback 2.5i, June for the XT and H6 models.

My guess is the Legacy, with two of those same engines, will start production at the same time.

-juice

nowakj66 · February 2004

I know we do not have all the figures yet, but based off what we know, which should be the better sports car? WRX Wagon? Legacy GT Wagon, or Outback XT?

ateixeira · February 2004

I would cross the Outback off the list, because it's a lot higher up (8.7" of clearance is a good 3-4" higher than the others), so no way will it handle as well as the other two.

WRX will still be lighter, more nimble. Maybe better in tight turns, quicker turn-in.

Legacy GT will better stretch its legs, though. 17" rims and huge brakes, long wheelbase for high speed cruising, too.

I'd pick the 2.5T engine for sure, though. Much more immediate response.

-juice

golfmannow · February 2004

The 05 Outback ground clearance has been well reported here. Does anyone know the ground clearance for the 05 Legacy GT Wagon? Thanks!

sebberry · February 2004

I'm really liking the looks of the new Outback. I'm sure the H6 will be just as refined as my current one, and provide more get up and go.

I'm sure the XT will definately be a fun car to drive, and quite a sleeper too, but I am hesitant to go with the 4 cylinder. Not because of the previous head gasket issues, but from a smoothness standpoint. I recently had a loaner Forester, and was a bit turned off by the harshness of the motor. (Surprisingly much rougher than my old 1990 Legacy, good old EJ22...)

The photos on the subdriven webste of the Outback's interior are pretty impressive, I like it more than the Legacy, just the subtle differences like the wood trim and such, and maybe the beige interior.

Well, who knows.. maybe someday they will answer my prayers and build a 3.0t, just maybe

johnclineii · February 2004

Well, the Australian version of the Legacy, the Liberty GT, has 155 mm clearance unladen, which would be 6.1 inches, compared to the reported 8.3/8.7 inches on the US Outback (different models vary).

I would suspect the US version would be close to this, though perhaps not identical. If anything, it may be less. Any difference on the undercarriage could cause this figure to change.

If anyone has access to US specs, many of us would love to see them!

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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