I had noticed some of the strange gear shifts in the Odyssey when we started driving it. As noted by others, if I recall correctly, it did seem to make a weird grinding noise when pushed a little hard going up from second gear.
Not pushing it as hard kept it from happening. And since we've gone over 1,000 miles, it's smoothed out enough so it's less of a concern. It might just be breaking the engine in that's the fix to this sort of problem. Might be that we're getting used to it, but the revving at certain times seems to be a little more "natural-feeling" now, too.
This reply is very late, but if you still need info on resetting the oil change indicator I found the following instructions in my 2005 Odyssey Service Manual: "Resetting The Oil Life Indicator" for LX,EX,EXL: 1. Turn the ignition switch to ON. 2. Press the trip meter select/reset knob on the instrument panel repeatedly until the engine oil life indicator is displayed. 3. Press and hold the the trip meter select/reset knob for about 10 seconds until the engine oil life and maintenance item code(s) blink, then release the knob. 4.Press and hold the trip meter/reset knob again for about 5 seconds. The maintenance item code(s) disappear and the engine oil life resets to "100", then release the knob. Hope this helps!
That is very interesting (about having back pain/numbness in the Sienna), thanks for the info. I don't want to trade for another honda, I want a minivan, but if I win the lottery I will certainly drive the Sienna longer than a few miles before I buy it. The dealer did not really want to deal with my problem anyway so I don't know if I could have traded for another type of Honda. I have never had a back injury so I don't even know the lingo - what is sciatic pain? Do you think this seat issue could cause permanent or severe damage to my back? I have found an upholster that might be able to modify the seats - I'll post my progress for others in the seat complainer club. Per my previous posts, that Obus Forme cushion has really helped but my back starts hurting again if I drive the van over an hour.
per msg: "I tested a Yak setup that attached to the factory rack and it wasn't substantial enough for me". Why didn't it work for you? I have an LX and getting the factory rack installed on Thursday (so I can attach Yak poles/mounts for bikes). Do I need to go another route? The factory racks aren't cheap! (prob around $500 installed).
per msg "describe in detail as to the exact location and parts/tools used to fix the problem? ". My rattle stopped when I put foam in the top right corner when I was standing outside (on passenger side) looking in. I guess the door was rubbing against the frame. My ultimate fix, that has worked so far, was to take a 1/2" diameter flat rubber washer and tape it to the frame where the rubber stopper on the door meets the frame. I took it to Honda twice and they couldn't fix it, they greased something and tightened something but the rattle was still there.
I didn't like the way the rack sagged with my 17' tandem canoe (~80 pounds) on it. We were heading out on a long road trip (32k miles!) and I didn't want the boat flying off, especially since half of it belonged to a friend.
River canoers often run shuttle with 3 or 4 boats on the roof, and I wanted more support for the longer bars I was using.
I don't think a couple of bikes up there would be an issue. And the Odyssey may have stronger racks than my van too. Mind the garage. :-)
I think from the best of my knowledge Sciatic pain is when a nerve is being pressed on from inflammation, or whatever in lower back and then the nerve that runs down the leg is effected and oh you don't want to feel that pain.... I have no idea on whether a seat could cause permanent damage. I would like to know the answer myself. I have had several cars over the years that I have had this back injury and some were good and some not, the ones that were bad I just had to really watch how much I drove and looked at every different kids of support cushion there was. However now, I have 3 kids and I feel like I live in the car so need something good, I actually found that the Pilot was more comfortable than the Odyessy but worry it's too small. I found the Sequoia's seats are very good at least for my back but it's so big, uses up so much gas and on and on. So I am still looking....
The problem is, with CC and BB, is that they do not know what can and cannot be put in an '05 Ody because often times they have not tried (and that is a good thing). They will normally play it safe and only use the manufacturers recommendations (which from Honda is to use the factory installed ones). If you go a Chop Shop (crude name but you know what I mean), they can install almost any kind of DVD player in any vehicle. I talked to one near Rock Hill, SC and they claim that they can and have installed a Liquid Video with a 10.7" LCD Screen into the new Ody. The only drawback is that you lose the overhead lights over the 2nd row seats. I believe the price to do this was just under $1000.
Thanks Steve. I've been hearing and feeling the grunt and shudder for about three weeks. My wife heard it yesterday for the first time. Quite subtle...but it's there. So it's the ABS self test. Thanks.
If you get the opportunity to play in snow or ice (or loose gravel or just wet roads), try a panic stop at low speed in an empty parking lot. When the ABS kicks in it won't be so subtle. After you get the feel of that, try steering with the brake pedal floored. It's cheap entertainment and good experience; if you ever have them kick in for real, you'll understand the commotion when you panic stop.
I got a letter from the service manager saying that since it has been 3 months my Odyssey is due for an oil change. The problem is we have only put like 600 miles on it so far (my wife just drives it around town). I know changing the oil too early is bad for the car but at the same time waiting too long is also bad. Is there a suggested time frame when the oil should be changed no matter what the mileage, especially when it comes to the warranty?
Now that my wife stays home with the kids rather than commuting to work I don't foresee us ever putting very many miles on the van on a monthly basis (and even if I took it to work, from time to time my commute is only like 4-5 miles).
Honda owners manual states oil changes @ 7500 miles or one year whichever comes first.
Your dealer is a call to increase his maintenance busines$. Like you, my Ody is also a low mileage one compared to the norm. I do oil changes every 3K miles or 4 months whichever comes first. This is cheap insurance, especially against engine sludge problems.
I do my own oil changes(have been for the past 30+ years). I keep receipts of my purchases of the oil and filters in event of any engine warranty claims, which I have never had. Oil and filter cost me less than $5 total and less than 1/2hr of my quality time under the hood.
"I got a letter from the service manager saying that since it has been 3 months my Odyssey is due for an oil change. The problem is we have only put like 600 miles on it so far (my wife just drives it around town)."
We have this issue with ALL of our cars. I have a '93 Toyota with 67K miles on it because while it has been driven on a number of long trips, we have always lived within a few miles of where we work so no commuting miles. Anyway, doesn't the Ody come with a maintenance minder that shows the percentage of oil use in the little display in the dash (by the speedometer and other gauges)? Or is that only EX-L? We have had ours since mid-December and have 1K miles on it and the oil use percentage is 90. The owner's manual said something like get an oil change when it is 15%.
We got an Odyssey EX-L, Vin about 7500 and have now over 1000 miles on it. Our MPG has been at best 15.7. This is very disappointing and it does not seem to be improving over time. Our dealer service guy said there is nothing he will do since no warning lights are on. We feel that this has been out of the acceptble range. We are very gentle drivers and the "eco" light is on almost all the time. I don't know what the point of vcm is but it just seems to add complexity to the engine without added mileage performance. Honda has falsely advertised their mileage for the Odyssey and I think Odyssey owners should be compensated for Honda's grossly off-the-mark mileage claims. I doubt individual dealers will do anyhing about these complaints but our state Attorney General (California) loves these sort of cases where thousands of people are affected by the fraud of a corporation. If you are disappointed with your Honda Odyssey mileage and would like some compensation, please email or call your state attorney general and let them handle it. This is free and it is their job to fight for us.
We have a 2004 Honda Civic. It takes a new grade of oil than the older Hondas and because of that, Honda says you only need to change oil every 10,000 miles under normal conditions. If under extreme conditions, you need to change it every 5,000 miles. But every time we take it in and have the Honda dealership change the oil, they put a sticker on the windshield saying it needs to be changed in 3,000 miles. I called the service dept. and asked the service manager about this. He said it didn't need to be changed until 5,000 miles if it was a 2004 or 2005. But they are still putting the 3,000 mile sticker on it. I say it's because people will look at that sticker and have it done, not because it needs it. But because the dealer can make that much more money off of you over the life of the vehicle. Not counting the other things they will try and find when taking it in more often, to make even more money off he customer.
Keep in mind that changing your oil is still the single best thing you can do for your engine and I still prefer to use the 3,000 mile guage.
Oil breaks down not only with miles but time as well, so just because you don't put many miles on your vehicle doesn't mean your oil is good as new.
Of course the dealer wants to make money off you, but if a 3,000 mile sticker makes you call the service manager, you really have a cushy life and don't have enough to gripe about.
You could be a rebel and cross out the 3 and make it a 10. Heck, make it a 20, no 50, and really show that dealer! You'll be saving all kinds of money....for now.
I just go by the owner's manual; I figure if it's good enough for the car engineers, it's good enough for me. If you don't have a manual, you can use the handy Edmunds Maintenance Guide.
I did some research to add some items after market like the backup sensors, fog lights, mp3 player, splash guards, etc and I figured that if I ordered the parts from H and A acc. and just get it installed at the dealer - total savings turn out to be near $300! But then again its their hourly rate that drives up the install costs. I wonder if these parts can be installed by any local car body work shop?
I went through the instructions to install the fog lights but do not feel confident enough to do it on my own. I would love to do it myself but since its brand new vehicle .... I feel should leave it to the pros...
" just go by the owner's manual; I figure if it's good enough for the car engineers, it's good enough for me. If you don't have a manual, you can use the handy Edmunds Maintenance Guide.
Steve, Host"
That is what I go by, the owner's manual. I change the oil every 5,000. If Honda engineers say that is all you need to, why pay more if you don't have to.
I have always split the difference and changed every 500. Easy to remember too.
For those with low mileage, short trips are the hardest on a vehicle. I would rather have a vehicle with high mileage than low. Those 2-4 mile trips to work and the store don't get the water moisture out of the oils, exhaust and other things. Wear on key parts is hardest til lubrication is complete.
If you drive just a few miles, I would get it changed on time rather than mileage. Maybe every 4 months?
Consumer Reports did a big study on this topic a while back using NYC taxis as their test mules. I don't remember the exact dates, but their conclusions are summarized in a "car care myths" page on their site. The end results ...
"Myth: Engine oil should be changed every 3,000 miles.
Reality: Although oil companies and quick-lube shops like to promote this idea, it's usually not necessary. Go by the recommended oil-change schedule in your vehicle's owner's manual. Most vehicles driven under normal conditions can go 7,500 miles or more between oil changes. Some models now come with a monitoring system that alerts the driver when the oil needs changing. Depending on driving conditions, these can extend change intervals to 10,000 or 15,000 miles. "
"Reality: Although oil companies and quick-lube shops like to promote this idea, it's usually not necessary. Go by the recommended oil-change schedule in your vehicle's owner's manual."
Not just oil companies and quick lub shops. As I said in another post that started this talk about frequency of oil changes, so do the dealships. Our Honda dealer keeps putting stickers on our windshield, that says the next oil change is three thousand miles. Even though they know the owner's manual says 5,000A, 10,000B, on the 2004 and 2005 Honda Civics
I use the 3,000 mile interval stickers like an alarm clock. Even if I hit the "snooze" a couple of times, I'll still make it in for an oil change way before it becomes critical.
And, as for "the other things they [the dealer's service department] will try and find when taking it in more often, to make even more money off [t]he customer", I'm kind of glad that they have some self-serving interest in keeping my vehicles in tip-top shape. Maybe it's just me, but there is not much that can ruin my day faster or more completely than car trouble and I cannot think of a convenient time to have it either!
Granted, you have to stay on your toes a bit to avoid total ripoffs, but spending an extra $20 or so to have some knowledgeable and experienced person look for trouble (as well as refreshing the fluid that is the best way to prevent trouble in the engine) seems like money well spent to me.
In fact, figuring the average of 15,000 miles per year, the difference in 3,000 mile oil change intervals to 5,000 intervals would amount to 2 more oil changes per year or anywhere from $30 to $60 per year. If you prefer 7,500 mile intervals, you're still only talking 3 more oil changes a year or $45 to $90 per year. I don't know too many folks who would pass up an extended warranty for a price that low. Why should trouble-prevention be any less wise.
For my money it's way better, because you don't have that gut-grinding feeling of hearing/feeling/smelling something wrong with your ride that certainly will occur should you ever really need an extended warranty.
rand01 said: [Mileage number are from the EPA, not Honda!]
The federal gov't says at fueleconony.gov: [Federal law requires automobile manufacturers to determine the fuel economy of new vehicles offered for sale in the U.S.]... AND ...[Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.]
robr2 said: [numbers listed are not some sort of standard to be met by the driver]
The gov't also says at the same website: [EPA required the laboratory-derived city and highway MPG estimates posted on the labels of new vehicles to be adjusted downward by 10 percent for city estimates and by 22 percent for highway estimates to better reflect the MPG real-world drivers can expect.]
From the Feds statements, it appears the MPG numbers come from the manufacturer. The EPA may/or may not confirm the results. AND the stated numbers are actually a downward adjustment to reflect real world (you & me) driving.
Just a thought to make you feel even better...Given the downward adjustment...if your vehicle cannot even meet the sticker MPG numbers, then you're not even close to the actual test results for that vehicle!
We've chewed on this subject more times than we care to remember here!!
Although the manufacturer may run the test, the test is done to the EPA's standards.
Did you read the test procedure at fueleconomy.gov? Not close to real life.
Do you drive exactly like the test? Most likely not.
Did you notice that they measure the carbon in the exhaust to calculate MPG - not actual fuel used? I'm not a scientist so I can't figure out how that works.
Hello Robr2, I'm just expressing a little empathy for Minivandriver. I'm guessing that when Minivandriver was making the decision to purchase +$30,000 vehicle and read every major automotive publication touting the fuel economy as a significant factor, that he had certain expectations.
In a quote from the federal website:[MPG estimates...adjusted downward...to better reflect the MPG real-world drivers can expect.] As statement implies and the downward adjustment is intended, the sticker is the expection, not the upper limit.
Statistically speaking, there should be roughly an equal number of owners experiencing above stated fuel efficiency...not just below. When reading "why my results may differ"...is the consumer expectation supposed to always 'differ downward'? Why not up?
In asking if I drive exactly like the test and you respond for me saying "Most likely not", can I assume that you're thinking that I occasionally drive 'better' than the test? Actually, sometimes I do...sometimes I don't. I just truly believe Mininvan driver has a reasonable basis for his expections.
However, in deference to you, I'll not post on this topic any longer. Sincerely, Tracy
That is discouraging to be sure. It seems that the relatively heavy vehicle with the not-so-very-big engine is taxed heavily in the stops and goes. My Yukon XL does 14 mpg in city commuting (mixing some of the 70 mph North Texas highway/tollway driving). It did barely 18 mpg on mostly-highway, through deserts and mountains, vacation last summer. But then it was loaded down with 4 adults (two of us super-size at 220+ lbs, together with our about-half-that-weight-each petite wives), a 160 lb. teenage boy, a 80 lb. preteen and my totally 80 lbs. or so 3 and 5 year olds; PLUS a full complement of luggage and souvenirs. I'm betting that the Odyssey (or Sienna, for that matter) would be hard pressed to get very high up in the low 20 mpg range loaded similarly -- because of the aforementioned relatively small engine.
Given the additional luxury and convenience of the Yukon over the minivans (not to mention style IMHO), the advantages and the "greeness" of the minivan suffers considerably.
No thanks, a rehash of info I've previously digested is not on my menu for today! There is no need to quote from fueleconony.gov on my account as I've seen it just a few times, and as Robert said, this has been discussed many times in the past.
I guess I've owned too many large surface area, high drag vehicles and tend to drive beyond the speeds used in the EPA test routine to expect EPA mileage numbers to be anything more than a way of comparing vehicle A to vehicle B, certainly not a guarantee or a standard to be achieved during my normal driving.
Just as a note, we took our Odyssey over to the coast last weekend. Crossed mountains, fought winds, drove the typical 70 - 80 mph on the highway, got in some city driving, and averaged 21.5 mph. Real world mileage for me!
Dilbertzzz wrote..."Given the additional luxury and convenience of the Yukon over the minivans (not to mention style IMHO), the advantages and the "greeness" of the minivan suffers considerably".
I'm scratching my head... I'm not anti-SUV by any stretch, own one myself but, How is a Yukon more convienient and luxurious than a '05 HO? From my experience you can't beat a minivan for family vacations or long trips, unless you are towing something. Seating for 8 and leather seats to boot, not to mention the double digit cupholders. The 3.5L engine has more than enough giddy-up for this size vehicle and I'm still getting better mpg than your Yukon.
8 mpg?!?! My goodness, I am a leadfoot for sure and we never got anywhere near that. Even now when I'm using a (great-deal-used-because-they-depreciate-nicely) Taurus for my commute and the Yukon XL is getting only neighborhood driving the 2 miles or so each way to and from our elementary school and lots of idling time too, it still gets 11+ mpg. Short of drag racing the thing with a loaded horse trailer in tow, I can't imagine how we could drive it any less efficiently!
mikeo1: I'm talking about tri-zone climate control with sun-warming sensor (I touch the temperature maybe once a month when I'm a bit overheated or chilled and then only change it one degree up or down) with airflow to ever single seating position including the third row, three-levels-of adjustment as to how much the stereo compensates the volume for speed, auto-dimming interior rear-view mirror with outside temperature and compass displays, a level of interior quiet beyond any minivan I've ever heard, completely-automatic headlights and DRLs (I never touch the light controls either), cubby holes everywhere for storage, cupholders all-over-da-place, very comfortable seating for eight (the only comfort complaints during the entire vacation were from our 3 year old and that was her car seat's fault), enough room inside the vehicle for 8 people's luggage and all the souvenirs bought on a two week vacation (and I could still see over everything to use my interior rear-view mirror!), never even a hesitation though we drove up/down 12,000 feet through the Rocky Mountain National park, and all this on the SLE (cheapest) YXL (personally, I can't stand leather, needed the eight roomy/comfy seats, and am a cheap fellow besides -- I paid right at $31,000 out the door in late 2003 for a 2003). I won't rehash my opinion about the now-ruined looks of the new Odyssey (whoops! I guess I slipped....)
Well, I guess if one routinely vacations with 8 people, you can't beat a Suburban.
However (and I don't want to speak for everyone else), I would rather deal with the relative primativeness of my EX-L Ody (good lord, you mean I MIGHT have to TOUCH the hvac controls more than once a month????? oh, the horror.....) and gain a more nimble, economical, and sophisticated vehicle which offers traction/stability control and full side/curtain airbags as standard equipment.
For you, the 'burb was a better choice. However, for the rest of us, the Ody was better.
FYI, if I had to vacation with 7 other folks (you call that a 'vacation'?), I would want (demand) every creature comfort also. Have you given thought to vacationing with fewer individuals?
I own both the Suburban LT and Odyssey Touring. I can tell you for a fact that the Sub is a quieter, better riding vehicle. Both have their good and bad points, but as far as I am concerned, in their own class, neither can be beat!
I made an observation the other day when we made an impromptu stop the other day at the local home improvement center to pick up some fence boards. It sure was easy to flip down the rear seats of that Odyssey, pull out the rear console and slide 2x4x8 and 1x12x6 boards right up the center. With the opening beneath that front seat tray that I've complained about in the past, I could have slid some ten footers in there!
Though the Sub would carry more of those boards, I'd have to unlatch and roll that big rear seat to the side (no easy task), and from there it is easy to fold one of the second row seats down and slide those 8 footers in.
No question that the big GM offering are great riding vehicles (quiet too). I traded an '02 Avalanche on my Odyssey and it was the best new vehicle I've ever bought (and great for those trips to Home Depot). The Odyssey does not offer quite the versatility but should suffice for most of my hauling needs.
OK I must say that I am in this whole minivan stigma thing. I think I said something like this in a previous forum but to me this is a BIG subject at least in my hometown in Calif. I am interested in hearing from people about this if anyone cares to write about it. At the moment I have about a year old GMC Yukon (not the XL) and I am already trying to figure out how I can get rid of it without losing too much more than is already going to happen. I am considering the new Odyessy, (had a 2001 Odyessy, lease ran out, didn't like lack of back support and got yukon). New Odyessy I think is better with back (I hope) but around here people are just not doing the minvan thing as much and going to SUV's. People think I am nuts to go back to minivans (had windstar and Odyessy for total of 9 years). Have 3 kids under age of 11 and 80 lb dog that goes with us on some vacations. SO what is it about these moms or dads for that matter who don't want to have a minivan in their garage/driveway but I admit I got caught up in it. Though Yukon has had NOTHING BUT TROUBLE in it's short year of life and the seats are comfy/big but too soft for my back issues. So here I am again looking at Odyessy,and Sequoia, ruled out Pilot (lack of room for our family) and others. However Sequoia with what I want is at least 45K (that just plain hurts). We do go to Sierra Mountains in winter/summer but more in summer. You know with all this said I always go back to "A car is just a car and it's mainly used to get from point A to point B" it's not like buying a house" or at least it shouldn't be.
Really different vehicles but in my opinion, the Ody EX is more suitable for 7 passenger ease of entry and exit and for ease of hauling bulky, light weight items purchased on the spur of the moment. Yukon XL more suitable for hauling 7 (or 8)heavy people or towing but the Yukon is not as easy to enter or exit since it sits higher off the ground. Ody EX (cloth) is a real bargain at $28,510 MSRP and even better when a discount is offered...not to mention the much higher resale of the Odyssey over other minivans or most SUVs.
Comments
Not pushing it as hard kept it from happening. And since we've gone over 1,000 miles, it's smoothed out enough so it's less of a concern. It might just be breaking the engine in that's the fix to this sort of problem. Might be that we're getting used to it, but the revving at certain times seems to be a little more "natural-feeling" now, too.
1. Turn the ignition switch to ON.
2. Press the trip meter select/reset knob on the instrument panel repeatedly until the engine oil life indicator is displayed.
3. Press and hold the the trip meter select/reset knob for about 10 seconds until the engine oil life and maintenance item code(s) blink, then release the knob.
4.Press and hold the trip meter/reset knob again for about 5 seconds. The maintenance item code(s) disappear and the engine oil life resets to "100", then release the knob. Hope this helps!
River canoers often run shuttle with 3 or 4 boats on the roof, and I wanted more support for the longer bars I was using.
I don't think a couple of bikes up there would be an issue. And the Odyssey may have stronger racks than my van too. Mind the garage. :-)
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Thanks, Chris
Of course, it's not supposed to be used in Touring and LX model as indicated from the Website.
Now that my wife stays home with the kids rather than commuting to work I don't foresee us ever putting very many miles on the van on a monthly basis (and even if I took it to work, from time to time my commute is only like 4-5 miles).
Your dealer is a call to increase his maintenance busines$. Like you, my Ody is also a low mileage one compared to the norm. I do oil changes every 3K miles or 4 months whichever comes first. This is cheap insurance, especially against engine sludge problems.
I do my own oil changes(have been for the past 30+ years). I keep receipts of my purchases of the oil and filters in event of any engine warranty claims, which I have never had. Oil and filter cost me less than $5 total and less than 1/2hr of my quality time under the hood.
We have this issue with ALL of our cars. I have a '93 Toyota with 67K miles on it because while it has been driven on a number of long trips, we have always lived within a few miles of where we work so no commuting miles. Anyway, doesn't the Ody come with a maintenance minder that shows the percentage of oil use in the little display in the dash (by the speedometer and other gauges)? Or is that only EX-L? We have had ours since mid-December and have 1K miles on it and the oil use percentage is 90. The owner's manual said something like get an oil change when it is 15%.
the single best thing you can do for your engine
and I still prefer to use the 3,000 mile guage.
Oil breaks down not only with miles but time as
well, so just because you don't put many miles on
your vehicle doesn't mean your oil is good as
new.
Of course the dealer wants to make money off you,
but if a 3,000 mile sticker makes you call the
service manager, you really have a cushy life and don't have enough to gripe about.
You could be a rebel and cross out the 3 and
make it a 10. Heck, make it a 20, no 50,
and really show that dealer! You'll be saving
all kinds of money....for now.
Steve, Host
But then again its their hourly rate that drives up the install costs. I wonder if these parts can be installed by any local car body work shop?
I went through the instructions to install the fog lights but do not feel confident enough to do it on my own. I would love to do it myself but since its brand new vehicle .... I feel should leave it to the pros...
Any suggestions?
Steve, Host"
That is what I go by, the owner's manual. I change the oil every 5,000. If Honda engineers say that is all you need to, why pay more if you don't have to.
For those with low mileage, short trips are the hardest on a vehicle. I would rather have a vehicle with high mileage than low. Those 2-4 mile trips to work and the store don't get the water moisture out of the oils, exhaust and other things. Wear on key parts is hardest til lubrication is complete.
If you drive just a few miles, I would get it changed on time rather than mileage. Maybe every 4 months?
"Myth: Engine oil should be changed every 3,000 miles.
Reality: Although oil companies and quick-lube shops like to promote this idea, it's usually not necessary. Go by the recommended oil-change schedule in your vehicle's owner's manual. Most vehicles driven under normal conditions can go 7,500 miles or more between oil changes. Some models now come with a monitoring system that alerts the driver when the oil needs changing. Depending on driving conditions, these can extend change intervals to 10,000 or 15,000 miles. "
Not just oil companies and quick lub shops. As I said in another post that started this talk about frequency of oil changes, so do the dealships. Our Honda dealer keeps putting stickers on our windshield, that says the next oil change is three thousand miles. Even though they know the owner's manual says 5,000A, 10,000B, on the 2004 and 2005 Honda Civics
And, as for "the other things they [the dealer's service department] will try and find when taking it in more often, to make even more money off [t]he customer", I'm kind of glad that they have some self-serving interest in keeping my vehicles in tip-top shape. Maybe it's just me, but there is not much that can ruin my day faster or more completely than car trouble and I cannot think of a convenient time to have it either!
Granted, you have to stay on your toes a bit to avoid total ripoffs, but spending an extra $20 or so to have some knowledgeable and experienced person look for trouble (as well as refreshing the fluid that is the best way to prevent trouble in the engine) seems like money well spent to me.
In fact, figuring the average of 15,000 miles per year, the difference in 3,000 mile oil change intervals to 5,000 intervals would amount to 2 more oil changes per year or anywhere from $30 to $60 per year. If you prefer 7,500 mile intervals, you're still only talking 3 more oil changes a year or $45 to $90 per year. I don't know too many folks who would pass up an extended warranty for a price that low. Why should trouble-prevention be any less wise.
For my money it's way better, because you don't have that gut-grinding feeling of hearing/feeling/smelling something wrong with your ride that certainly will occur should you ever really need an extended warranty.
[Mileage number are from the EPA, not Honda!]
The federal gov't says at fueleconony.gov:
[Federal law requires automobile manufacturers to determine the fuel economy of new vehicles offered for sale in the U.S.]... AND ...[Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.]
robr2 said:
[numbers listed are not some sort of standard to be met by the driver]
The gov't also says at the same website:
[EPA required the laboratory-derived city and highway MPG estimates posted on the labels of new vehicles to be adjusted downward by 10 percent for city estimates and by 22 percent for highway estimates to better reflect the MPG real-world drivers can expect.]
From the Feds statements, it appears the MPG numbers come from the manufacturer. The EPA may/or may not confirm the results. AND the stated numbers are actually a downward adjustment to reflect real world (you & me) driving.
Chew on that folks!
We've chewed on this subject more times than we care to remember here!!
Although the manufacturer may run the test, the test is done to the EPA's standards.
Did you read the test procedure at fueleconomy.gov? Not close to real life.
Do you drive exactly like the test? Most likely not.
Did you notice that they measure the carbon in the exhaust to calculate MPG - not actual fuel used? I'm not a scientist so I can't figure out how that works.
Did you read the section entitled "Why Your Results May Differ"? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml It gives lots of reasons why.
Did you read anywhere there that the government/manufacturer will guarantee their test results? No you did not.
It's an estimate only. The sticker on your car even says that actual mileage will vary.
Good luck.
I'm just expressing a little empathy for Minivandriver. I'm guessing that when Minivandriver was making the decision to purchase +$30,000 vehicle and read every major automotive publication touting the fuel economy as a significant factor, that he had certain expectations.
In a quote from the federal website:[MPG estimates...adjusted downward...to better reflect the MPG real-world drivers can expect.] As statement implies and the downward adjustment is intended, the sticker is the expection, not the upper limit.
Statistically speaking, there should be roughly an equal number of owners experiencing above stated fuel efficiency...not just below. When reading "why my results may differ"...is the consumer expectation supposed to always 'differ downward'? Why not up?
In asking if I drive exactly like the test and you respond for me saying "Most likely not", can I assume that you're thinking that I occasionally drive 'better' than the test? Actually, sometimes I do...sometimes I don't. I just truly believe Mininvan driver has a reasonable basis for his expections.
However, in deference to you, I'll not post on this topic any longer.
Sincerely,
Tracy
FWIW last years Sienna got 30 on the highway in the CR test - this years is down to 27 with 14 in the city.
Given the additional luxury and convenience of the Yukon over the minivans (not to mention style IMHO), the advantages and the "greeness" of the minivan suffers considerably.
I guess I've owned too many large surface area, high drag vehicles and tend to drive beyond the speeds used in the EPA test routine to expect EPA mileage numbers to be anything more than a way of comparing vehicle A to vehicle B, certainly not a guarantee or a standard to be achieved during my normal driving.
Just as a note, we took our Odyssey over to the coast last weekend. Crossed mountains, fought winds, drove the typical 70 - 80 mph on the highway, got in some city driving, and averaged 21.5 mph. Real world mileage for me!
I'm scratching my head...
I'm not anti-SUV by any stretch, own one myself but,
How is a Yukon more convienient and luxurious
than a '05 HO?
From my experience you can't beat a minivan
for family vacations or long trips, unless you
are towing something. Seating for 8 and leather
seats to boot, not to mention the double digit
cupholders.
The 3.5L engine has more than enough giddy-up for this size vehicle and I'm still getting better
mpg than your Yukon.
mikeo1: I'm talking about tri-zone climate control with sun-warming sensor (I touch the temperature maybe once a month when I'm a bit overheated or chilled and then only change it one degree up or down) with airflow to ever single seating position including the third row, three-levels-of adjustment as to how much the stereo compensates the volume for speed, auto-dimming interior rear-view mirror with outside temperature and compass displays, a level of interior quiet beyond any minivan I've ever heard, completely-automatic headlights and DRLs (I never touch the light controls either), cubby holes everywhere for storage, cupholders all-over-da-place, very comfortable seating for eight (the only comfort complaints during the entire vacation were from our 3 year old and that was her car seat's fault), enough room inside the vehicle for 8 people's luggage and all the souvenirs bought on a two week vacation (and I could still see over everything to use my interior rear-view mirror!), never even a hesitation though we drove up/down 12,000 feet through the Rocky Mountain National park, and all this on the SLE (cheapest) YXL (personally, I can't stand leather, needed the eight roomy/comfy seats, and am a cheap fellow besides -- I paid right at $31,000 out the door in late 2003 for a 2003). I won't rehash my opinion about the now-ruined looks of the new Odyssey (whoops! I guess I slipped....)
However (and I don't want to speak for everyone else), I would rather deal with the relative primativeness of my EX-L Ody (good lord, you mean I MIGHT have to TOUCH the hvac controls more than once a month????? oh, the horror.....) and gain a more nimble, economical, and sophisticated vehicle which offers traction/stability control and full side/curtain airbags as standard equipment.
For you, the 'burb was a better choice. However, for the rest of us, the Ody was better.
FYI, if I had to vacation with 7 other folks (you call that a 'vacation'?), I would want (demand) every creature comfort also. Have you given thought to vacationing with fewer individuals?
I made an observation the other day when we made an impromptu stop the other day at the local home improvement center to pick up some fence boards. It sure was easy to flip down the rear seats of that Odyssey, pull out the rear console and slide 2x4x8 and 1x12x6 boards right up the center. With the opening beneath that front seat tray that I've complained about in the past, I could have slid some ten footers in there!
Though the Sub would carry more of those boards, I'd have to unlatch and roll that big rear seat to the side (no easy task), and from there it is easy to fold one of the second row seats down and slide those 8 footers in.
Long-Term Test: 2005 Honda Odyssey
The mileage looks ok so far, and it has PAX run-flats on it. That should be good. :-)
Steve, Host
Yukon XL more suitable for hauling 7 (or 8)heavy people or towing but the Yukon is not as easy to enter or exit since it sits higher off the ground.
Ody EX (cloth) is a real bargain at $28,510 MSRP and even better when a discount is offered...not to mention the much higher resale of the Odyssey over other minivans or most SUVs.
SUV vs. Minivans (SUVs & Vans Boards)
Steve, Host