Answer to #1: because 90% of the public does not run their car until it dies. They trade up frequently.
And Subaru wants those customers that buy many more cars than folks like you and me (once every 7+ years).
Answer to #2: rebates are a slippery slope. They erode your image, residuals, and return customers.
If you pay $35k for a loaded Tribeca today, 2-3 years from now it had better be worth $25k or so, so the same buyer can afford to trade up to a 2008 Tribeca. If not they won't buy another Subaru.
Let's say you bought a 2002 Odyssey LX for $25 grand. Today it's worth $18 grand.
Beautiful. You trade it in on a new 2005 model and pay maybe $7 grand difference. You are a loyal Honda customer and will buy another one in 2008, another in 2011, and so on.
Over time Honda will make approximately one billion in profits from you alone. Strangely you will be extremely happy handing them over all your money continously for the rest of your life.
LOL
But you get the point. A high residual makes trading in for a new model affordable.
Now, let's look at Kia. Say you bought a Sedona in 2002. Huge rebates allowed you to get an EX with many more features for less money. So you only paid $20 grand, saving you $5 grand more than the Ody buyer.
Genius, right?
Today, you are screwed. Noone wants a used Sedona, even the 10/100 warranty shrinks to 5/60 when it's a 2nd buyer. You can't find a buyer at all, never mind the price, so your only hope is a trade-in. These vans wholesale at about $9 grand, so if your are LUCKY the dealer will give you $9 grand on the trade.
Now you cannot afford the new 2006 Sedona, because the difference in price is a whopping $11 grand.
So for now you're stuck with an old, mediocre van with poor mileage.
So Kia increases the rebates. $2000 cash back!
Still $9 grand. Remember, Honda cost you $7 grand to trade.
$4000 cash back!
OK, now you break even. But you waited for that huge rebate to buy.
OK, so in the Cafe swampy joked about a Def Jam Edition, but why not collaborate with a hot stereo maker?
I've seen Scion and Element concepts heavily customized for audiophiles. A production model would not have to go that far, but what about a Surround Sound DVD theatre? They could put a sub under the passenger seat so they felt any booms.
And it gets worse. As the rebates become huge and routine, more customers hold off on buying until they come out. Then when the rebates get to the point that the makers are practically giving the cars away, your older vehicles value gets further eroded. Why buy a 2 year old car when you can get a new one for only $2k more? If you consider the financing deals available, in many cases for the people who live the "cash-flow" way of life, the monthly payments on the new vehicle can end up being the same as that late model used one they were considering because 3rd party car loans tend to be quite high. Up here, used car loans start around 8-9% for customers with good credit. Used car pricing has taken a significant downturn (in Canada anyway) as a result of these factors.
not true. Subaru currently has 1.9% for 36 months and $1,000 cash back on all Outback models. This here at a central California dealership. Check subaru.com you will find it.
Well, I just checked and the cash back is on the Outback Sport (Impreza "Outback").
I just checked a bunch of zip codes (including some in CA), and in all cases there is only 1.9% financing on the Legacy-based Outback models (and the Legacy too). I didn't see any rebates. What zip were you using?
Craig
ps: they have had this same financing rate for a long time, at least for the past couple years. I think I got 3.9% over 60 months on my OB XT. Could have done 2.9% over 48 months, or 1.9% for up to 36 months. That was back in July 04. Nothing has changed since then.
There must be resistance to higher priced Subaru models in the Chicago area: In Oct of 04 I paid $300 below my (suburban) dealer's invoice cost for a VDC wagon. The dealer also had a $1000 holdback which he kept.
The closest dealer to my house won't even put VDCs in stock. I wonder how many B9s they will order?
Craig, my bad it looks like the rebate is just on the Outback Sport. But all are eligible for the financing.
John
OUTBACK 1.9% APR FINANCING UP TO 36 MONTHS ON ALL 05 OUTBACK MODELS Subject to credit approval, vehicle insurance approval and vehicle availability. Not all customers will qualify. Financing = $28.60 per month, per $1,000 financed. Cannot be combined with Customer Cash. Must take delivery from dealer stock by March 31, 2005. See participating dealers for details.
CUSTOMER CASH REBATE Now through March 31, 2005 - select models are available with Customer Cash up to $1,000. You must take delivery from dealer stock by March 31, 2005. See your participating dealer for details.
A good point was brought up about dealer not being accustomed to many $30k plus sales, and I have a feeling we'll see a higher proportion of leasing, too.
I hope the dealers get the right training. Sadly that's the area Patti just left.
VW was caught flat-footed, dealers had no idea how to treat upscale buyers.
Perhaps the long article in Consumer Reports this month praising stability control will make a difference. They even advised ORDERING a car if the dealer has none in stock.
Of course, that's no way to get a car at a good price.
The mentioned two week shutdown is the last week of June & the 1st week of July. New 06MY launches end of May.
I agree that it is still a good sign that Subaru is not offering anything other than the relatively low finance rates of Leg/OBK but my contention was that they still over calculated the success of the redesign.
Initial sales estimates were given at 120,000 but will probably only hit 95-100k. That's a fairly big miss on projection. Also Subaru calculates their "sales" numbers as soon as the car is driven out of SIA into the SoA lot. That sometimes makes the sales numbers look artificially inflated.
The new LL Bean I was considering is for my wife. My biggest fear is that after 3 years she will want to trade it on something else and because of our proximity to SIA resale won't be that great. Subaru used values tend to be a little lower in our area because of the number of used Subarus available.
I want to make sure that I am not trying to burst anyone's bubble here I just brought up the point a few posts ago that Tribeca has to sell close to their projected sales figures to actual customers or Subaru is going to be in a serious cash crunch. They invested untold millions and they need this thing to sell.
I love Subaru, especially the Outback/Legacy models. It has to be the best value going in it's segment right now. I can't think of any other vehicle with as much value for the buck, but that's only my opinion. I feel that Subaru needs to focus more attention on how far they have advanced their quality & performance.
I drove the very first 05 OBK XT M/T that the local dealer got that wasn't sold the minute it was unloaded off the truck. It is awesome. The main reason why we don't have one already is because this will be my wife's car and she wants an LL Bean but I haven't completely convinced her it is worth 30k. I think it is but it will be her car so there it is.
If it were my turn to buy a car right now we would have had the OBK XT the day I drove it but I'm not planning on buying a new car for me until 07MY. I am anxious to see what changes makes for 07 on the Outbacks/Legacy's. If not much else changes such as Memory Seats or Nav then I'll probably buy a 325xi...we'll have to see.
Also Subaru calculates their "sales" numbers as soon as the car is driven out of SIA into the SoA lot. That sometimes makes the sales numbers look artificially inflated.
No, those are pretty accurate numbers from SoA. When the cars leaves the assembly line, it is SOLD. It is sold to the respective dealership that is
Brace yourself if you get a 325xi. One of my relatives bought one (he picked up a US-spec wagon in Germany while on duty there and later had it shipped to the US) and it was a major flop. In my opinion, the car was lacking for power but nice otherwise. Unfortunately, he had a lot of problems with the car and sold it.
Out of the people I know with BMW, Mercedes, Audis .... Saab, Volvo, I'd say 80% of the cars have not been a good ownership experience. I can't ever see myself buying a European car when there are such good choices from Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc...
Thanks for the heads up on the BMW. I have also heard some complaints about the overall experience. I have driven one and I agree about lacking the power but the new 06MY will have about 215hp in the 325 if memory serves me correctly.
I agree with the not so great ownership experiences of the European brands right now but I think they are getting the wake up call. This is an ideal time for Subaru now that they have a foot in the door of the premium brands. I think if they can get people to actually come in and drive their cars they can sell. It's hard to drive an 05 OBK XT or Legacy GT and not walk away impressed.
Subaru needs to make sure that they maintain a high level of customer satisfaction & fun to drive vehicles for a fair price and they may start to steal some market share from some of the Europeans. IMO
a good point.. we did slow the line down ..alot....there is a large volume of cars but sales are up. We had a fast line speed to make up for time lost when work was going on for the B9. Its my 2nd week on the B9 line..let me tell yall they are very serious about it. I can say i think it will sell and sell very well, kick the X5's [non-permissible content removed] and anyone who wants to play with the new kid on the block, not cause i work there but from what i have seen its a good idea. Still dont know about the front, but subaru has balls to think outside the box that everybody is scared to look out of..
all i have to say is..rebates are good for the buyer..BAD for the maker..in the long run it kills the maker.They pay for all the low o/o we love to have. and for the rebates. Yes all of the makers could sell for less but that a very long story wee all know about (unions, med ins and a hell of alot more) makers hate to use rebates but when one does they all do, i see them going away in a few years and a big change in the way they price cars...hell i might be full of it but thats what i thimk.
Remember the Isuzu Trooper, Aziom, and Rodeo - all high rebate vehicles that are now gone!! Never did understand why they didn't just lower the MSRP by $5,000 instead of offering a $5,000 rebates. I personally got killed on the trade-in value even though I bought cheap.
I have been on the road and just got around to looking at Juice's photo albums, and I gotta say it: Where else can you get a scripted photo-tour of a new 5/7 vehicle that puts most crime scene investigation files to shame PLUS a seperate album with mug shots of all the other suspects, complete with explanations why they are not "the guy". Juice should go into forensic work! Mark
Marketing had inflated goals, then. How can a record year be viewed as a failure? If so, what were all the years that came before? Might as well fold the business.
Maybe it's a matter of glass half full or half empty. I do agree that the Tribeca will be important. But so was Baja and that flop didn't seem to hurt them much.
Dave: I'm not sure I agree. When a dealer gets a car you might say it's leased, or on hold. Production numbers and sales numbers don't always match.
Mark: thank you for recognizing that. And yes, it was a lot of work. I was up past midnight to get all those photos up on the Industry Preview days of NAIAS, which actually come before the public opening! :-)
Bob was there too and a lot of those photos are his. He was schmoozing the Product Planning folks for more info while I took every photo I could imagine.
Still missed some - like the LATCH anchors, which other members caught later.
I didn't say the record sales year was a flop. I'm just saying that Subaru has to sell well on the Tribeca because they have well north of 100 million invested on it. Baja tooling costs were a drop in the bucket because most of the tooling was common with OBK and they didn't have to convert half the plant to run them. This is not the case with Tribeca. I work for a Tier 1 to Subaru and I know the investment in tooling on just our portion of the program is astronomical.
I personally like the Tribeca. If it weren't for the nose I would love it. I think it well meet or exceed most of the people's expectations on this forum but Subaru has got to do the marketing on this vehicle to get the sales. Good magazine reviews won't hurt either.
I can say that the few Pilot units I've seen in person, the build quality is phenomenal for a pre-production vehicle. This alone says alot for the effort that Subaru is putting into this thing. SIA team should be proud of how well the Pilots are assembled. This is no small task considering how many things aren't production level for component parts. Good job Tribeca Team!
Subaru says record year for 2004 with sales at the top chart being 187,402 up 0% yet the by state chart at the bottom saying sales were 170,391 down 3%.
I'd like to know how that translates into record sales.
Well I'ma lucky duck then. I live in Lafayette, IN, where SIA has their plant. SIA said that it will fill the Isuzu assembly line with a Subaru crossover (Tribeca) and a Saab crossover at a later date(9-6??? ew). At least, that's what I read in the paper a while ago. Anyway, they laid off a whole bunch of people when the Isuzu side left, but they seem to be taking them back. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Tribeca around Lafayette, as they had a new Outback wagon wandering around town (no idea why) 3 months before it hit showrooms. Teaser, perhaps?
mayberryguy, you seem to be an expert when it comes to Subaru seats. Do you think it'd be possible to swap the LH seat control unit from a 96x into a Tribeca?
I'm no expert, but I would say that the likelihood for a swap would be high. I have not seen the Memory controller yet so I can't say for sure. I will post an update once I get some more details.
Mayberryguy - do you know anything about the engine(s) to be offered on the Saab 9-6x? Specifically, will a turbocharged version of the H-6 be available? I think Saab will need something other than interior upgrades to justify a (presumably) higher price over the Tribeca.
It's NY - you can see anything and everything. although, to see everything, you'll need a couple of years Javitz center is around 36th st on the West side - 10 minutes by subway + a short walk from Tribeca. I might be at the show on the 25th, 26th or 27th.
Here's something that might be of interest. The Morgan Stanley Global Automotive Conference will be held Mar 21-23 at the Westin New York at Times Square. At last year's conference FHI's #2 man, Hideo Wada, made a presentation, discussing Subaru's current situation and future plans. He was accompanied by SOA execs who helped out during the Q&A which followed the presentation.
I don't know whether FHI will make a presentation again this year, but it couldn't hurt to ask your SOA handler about it.
I'd like to meet Mike Whelan, at least. We'll see if I'm lucky enough to do that.
That's a weird ambition. As far as I can tell Mike Whelan is currently National Manager, Corporate Communications and reports to Rick Crosson who is VP, Marketing. Neither of those guys rate a mention in the Executive Bios section of Subaru's media website. It does appear that Dominick Infante and the Brand Managers report to Mike, though. Despite his position, Mike's name doesn't appear very often in press reports anymore. A memmorable one, though, was in connection with the joint FHI/Saab announcement that Saab would be getting a version of the Tribeca. Mike was quoted in an AutoWeek article thus:
Subaru of America spokesman Mike Wheelan says company officials were informed of the deal only on the day it was announced by Fuji Heavy. He says the negotiations were between GM and Fuji Heavy.
Mike admits SOA execs were clueless and he can't even get his name spelled correctly.
If you are able to collar him, I have a suggestion to pass along.
Subaru needs to communicate better to its customers the technology that's behind the performance and safety of Subarus. Distributing backgrounders to the press isn't getting the job done and I have a simple solution. Make the "Mechanism and Function" portion of the service manual freely available from subaru.com. It's a generally technical discussion of how and why things work on a Subaru. Subaru wisely consolidated the separate versions of that manual for each product line into a single manual for the 2005 model year. The online version of that service manual section available on the Subaru Technical Information System (STIS) (see MSA5T0530A) is organized perfectly for this purpose - many dozens of individual pdf files - so that one wouldn't need to download the whole beast just to get the discussion of Subaru's variable valve lift system, for example. Mike needs to push for freely downloadable versions of the Mechanism and Fucntion manual, accessible from subaru.com.
And, for good measure, SOA should also make freely available the annual New Model Update documentation that's supplied to service techs (e.g. 2005 New Model Update).
OK. Here's what happened. As I already mentioned, I live in Lafayette, IN, where SIA has its plant where they will be building the new B9 Tribeca. I was heading to Indianapolis to visit relatives, when I saw an oddly shaped vehicle exit onto I-65 heading toward Lafayette. I thought that it looked a little like a Mitsubishi. I gave it little thought.
I was taking my wife, sister and her kid to visit my relatives. On the way back, there was a convoy of four identical vehicles. Three were silver, one was a really pretty burgandy. They looked very abnormal, and they were all driving at the exact same speed. As I got closer, I noticed a Subaru badge on the back. Then something clicked. My sis was in the front seat, and I told her to get the camera out-quick. She looked at me very oddly. I just told her to do it and she did. She snapped off two pictures of these four B9 TRIBECA crossovers before the batteries on her digital cam died. The grille, btw looks a lot better in real life.
They had New Jersey plates.... very odd indeed. But overall a very pretty car IMO. I had a hunch that they would be hanging around Lafayette, but I hadn't really expected a fleet of them....
Comments
And Subaru wants those customers that buy many more cars than folks like you and me (once every 7+ years).
Answer to #2: rebates are a slippery slope. They erode your image, residuals, and return customers.
If you pay $35k for a loaded Tribeca today, 2-3 years from now it had better be worth $25k or so, so the same buyer can afford to trade up to a 2008 Tribeca. If not they won't buy another Subaru.
-juice
Let's say you bought a 2002 Odyssey LX for $25 grand. Today it's worth $18 grand.
Beautiful. You trade it in on a new 2005 model and pay maybe $7 grand difference. You are a loyal Honda customer and will buy another one in 2008, another in 2011, and so on.
Over time Honda will make approximately one billion in profits from you alone. Strangely you will be extremely happy handing them over all your money continously for the rest of your life.
LOL
But you get the point. A high residual makes trading in for a new model affordable.
Now, let's look at Kia. Say you bought a Sedona in 2002. Huge rebates allowed you to get an EX with many more features for less money. So you only paid $20 grand, saving you $5 grand more than the Ody buyer.
Genius, right?
Today, you are screwed. Noone wants a used Sedona, even the 10/100 warranty shrinks to 5/60 when it's a 2nd buyer. You can't find a buyer at all, never mind the price, so your only hope is a trade-in. These vans wholesale at about $9 grand, so if your are LUCKY the dealer will give you $9 grand on the trade.
Now you cannot afford the new 2006 Sedona, because the difference in price is a whopping $11 grand.
So for now you're stuck with an old, mediocre van with poor mileage.
So Kia increases the rebates. $2000 cash back!
Still $9 grand. Remember, Honda cost you $7 grand to trade.
$4000 cash back!
OK, now you break even. But you waited for that huge rebate to buy.
Kia is stuck in this cycle.
Subaru should not play that game.
-juice
but was i suppose to follow the rest? cant we talk about bore and stroke again my head hurts.
well i think the moral of your story is not buy a crappy car, not the rebate problem. if you have a good car it will help the residuals.
BMW 7 series had a $10,000 rebate in the 90s and owners were fuming mad because resale value collapsed instantly.
-juice
I've seen Scion and Element concepts heavily customized for audiophiles. A production model would not have to go that far, but what about a Surround Sound DVD theatre? They could put a sub under the passenger seat so they felt any booms.
-juice
John
I just checked a bunch of zip codes (including some in CA), and in all cases there is only 1.9% financing on the Legacy-based Outback models (and the Legacy too). I didn't see any rebates. What zip were you using?
Craig
ps: they have had this same financing rate for a long time, at least for the past couple years. I think I got 3.9% over 60 months on my OB XT. Could have done 2.9% over 48 months, or 1.9% for up to 36 months. That was back in July 04. Nothing has changed since then.
The closest dealer to my house won't even put VDCs in stock. I wonder how many B9s they will order?
Dave
-juice
John
OUTBACK
1.9% APR FINANCING UP TO 36 MONTHS ON ALL 05 OUTBACK MODELS
Subject to credit approval, vehicle insurance approval and vehicle availability. Not all customers will qualify. Financing = $28.60 per month, per $1,000 financed. Cannot be combined with Customer Cash. Must take delivery from dealer stock by March 31, 2005. See participating dealers for details.
CUSTOMER CASH REBATE
Now through March 31, 2005 - select models are available with Customer Cash up to $1,000. You must take delivery from dealer stock by March 31, 2005. See your participating dealer for details.
2005 Outback Sport models $1,000
I hope the dealers get the right training. Sadly that's the area Patti just left.
VW was caught flat-footed, dealers had no idea how to treat upscale buyers.
-juice
Perhaps the long article in Consumer Reports this month praising stability control will make a difference. They even advised ORDERING a car if the dealer has none in stock.
Of course, that's no way to get a car at a good price.
Dave
It's a strange, strange system. Fitz lets you order for the same price margins compared to stock.
-juice
The mentioned two week shutdown is the last week of June & the 1st week of July. New 06MY launches end of May.
I agree that it is still a good sign that Subaru is not offering anything other than the relatively low finance rates of Leg/OBK but my contention was that they still over calculated the success of the redesign.
Initial sales estimates were given at 120,000 but will probably only hit 95-100k. That's a fairly big miss on projection. Also Subaru calculates their "sales" numbers as soon as the car is driven out of SIA into the SoA lot. That sometimes makes the sales numbers look artificially inflated.
The new LL Bean I was considering is for my wife. My biggest fear is that after 3 years she will want to trade it on something else and because of our proximity to SIA resale won't be that great. Subaru used values tend to be a little lower in our area because of the number of used Subarus available.
I love Subaru, especially the Outback/Legacy models. It has to be the best value going in it's segment right now. I can't think of any other vehicle with as much value for the buck, but that's only my opinion. I feel that Subaru needs to focus more attention on how far they have advanced their quality & performance.
I drove the very first 05 OBK XT M/T that the local dealer got that wasn't sold the minute it was unloaded off the truck. It is awesome. The main reason why we don't have one already is because this will be my wife's car and she wants an LL Bean but I haven't completely convinced her it is worth 30k. I think it is but it will be her car so there it is.
If it were my turn to buy a car right now we would have had the OBK XT the day I drove it but I'm not planning on buying a new car for me until 07MY. I am anxious to see what changes makes for 07 on the Outbacks/Legacy's. If not much else changes such as Memory Seats or Nav then I'll probably buy a 325xi...we'll have to see.
No, those are pretty accurate numbers from SoA. When the cars leaves the assembly line, it is SOLD. It is sold to the respective dealership that is
-Dave
Out of the people I know with BMW, Mercedes, Audis .... Saab, Volvo, I'd say 80% of the cars have not been a good ownership experience. I can't ever see myself buying a European car when there are such good choices from Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc...
Craig
Thanks for the heads up on the BMW. I have also heard some complaints about the overall experience. I have driven one and I agree about lacking the power but the new 06MY will have about 215hp in the 325 if memory serves me correctly.
I agree with the not so great ownership experiences of the European brands right now but I think they are getting the wake up call. This is an ideal time for Subaru now that they have a foot in the door of the premium brands. I think if they can get people to actually come in and drive their cars they can sell. It's hard to drive an 05 OBK XT or Legacy GT and not walk away impressed.
Subaru needs to make sure that they maintain a high level of customer satisfaction & fun to drive vehicles for a fair price and they may start to steal some market share from some of the Europeans. IMO
Mark
Maybe it's a matter of glass half full or half empty. I do agree that the Tribeca will be important. But so was Baja and that flop didn't seem to hurt them much.
Dave: I'm not sure I agree. When a dealer gets a car you might say it's leased, or on hold. Production numbers and sales numbers don't always match.
Mark: thank you for recognizing that. And yes, it was a lot of work. I was up past midnight to get all those photos up on the Industry Preview days of NAIAS, which actually come before the public opening! :-)
Bob was there too and a lot of those photos are his. He was schmoozing the Product Planning folks for more info while I took every photo I could imagine.
Still missed some - like the LATCH anchors, which other members caught later.
-juice
I didn't say the record sales year was a flop. I'm just saying that Subaru has to sell well on the Tribeca because they have well north of 100 million invested on it. Baja tooling costs were a drop in the bucket because most of the tooling was common with OBK and they didn't have to convert half the plant to run them. This is not the case with Tribeca. I work for a Tier 1 to Subaru and I know the investment in tooling on just our portion of the program is astronomical.
I personally like the Tribeca. If it weren't for the nose I would love it. I think it well meet or exceed most of the people's expectations on this forum but Subaru has got to do the marketing on this vehicle to get the sales. Good magazine reviews won't hurt either.
I can say that the few Pilot units I've seen in person, the build quality is phenomenal for a pre-production vehicle. This alone says alot for the effort that Subaru is putting into this thing. SIA team should be proud of how well the Pilots are assembled. This is no small task considering how many things aren't production level for component parts. Good job Tribeca Team!
-juice
Maybe that's why there are differences here:
http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/Query.aspx?
Subaru says record year for 2004 with sales at the top chart being 187,402 up 0% yet the by state chart at the bottom saying sales were 170,391 down 3%.
I'd like to know how that translates into record sales.
Does something need to fill the space? Afterall it was Isuzu's assembly side not Subaru's.
-juice
1. RH Manual Seat
2. LH Memory Seat
3. OnStar capability
4. Different interior trim colors with a Red
Leather version
Red leather is different, but I'll take the two-tone black and beige, thanks.
It'll debut in NY, they're saying. So we'll know for sure on 2/23 or 24th, the press days.
Subaru's press day is the 24th, in the AM. Saab's I'm not sure.
-juice
-juice
Pre-production units won't begin until around December this year with a launch target of June 06. I'll post any updates when information is confirmed.
-juicer
OK, so I'll be in NY from the 22-24, next week basically, and might have time to check out this trendy town.
Any suggestions on what to see? How far from the Jacob Javits center?
I'll also be in NY to see Subaru's presentation live on the 24th in the AM. :-)
-juice
I don't know whether FHI will make a presentation again this year, but it couldn't hurt to ask your SOA handler about it.
I'd like to meet Mike Whelan, at least. We'll see if I'm lucky enough to do that.
-juice
If you are able to collar him, I have a suggestion to pass along.
Subaru needs to communicate better to its customers the technology that's behind the performance and safety of Subarus. Distributing backgrounders to the press isn't getting the job done and I have a simple solution. Make the "Mechanism and Function" portion of the service manual freely available from subaru.com. It's a generally technical discussion of how and why things work on a Subaru. Subaru wisely consolidated the separate versions of that manual for each product line into a single manual for the 2005 model year. The online version of that service manual section available on the Subaru Technical Information System (STIS) (see MSA5T0530A) is organized perfectly for this purpose - many dozens of individual pdf files - so that one wouldn't need to download the whole beast just to get the discussion of Subaru's variable valve lift system, for example. Mike needs to push for freely downloadable versions of the Mechanism and Fucntion manual, accessible from subaru.com.
And, for good measure, SOA should also make freely available the annual New Model Update documentation that's supplied to service techs (e.g. 2005 New Model Update).
FHI is extremely secretive, to a point that it's absurd, actually.
-juice
I was taking my wife, sister and her kid to visit my relatives. On the way back, there was a convoy of four identical vehicles. Three were silver, one was a really pretty burgandy. They looked very abnormal, and they were all driving at the exact same speed. As I got closer, I noticed a Subaru badge on the back. Then something clicked. My sis was in the front seat, and I told her to get the camera out-quick. She looked at me very oddly. I just told her to do it and she did. She snapped off two pictures of these four B9 TRIBECA crossovers before the batteries on her digital cam died. The grille, btw looks a lot better in real life.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/chrischairs/album?.dir=/c723
They had New Jersey plates.... very odd indeed. But overall a very pretty car IMO. I had a hunch that they would be hanging around Lafayette, but I hadn't really expected a fleet of them....