Ford Escape Hybrid

larsb · February 2005

Escape front seat got a 6 and back seat a 5. I don't know who got a 10 - maybe the Maybach?

2005 Mercedes-Benz S-Class/CL-Class got a 10 for the front and a 9 for the back.....Except the CL500 which got a 2 for the back....

yerth10 · February 2005

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/02/florida_adds_21.html

larsb et al
Florida Adds 21 Escape Hybrids to State Fleet
Cheers.

donw47 · February 2005

We have had our FEH for almost 3 months and have been getting 18 MPG on average. From reading the posts, I now appreciate why that is the case: we drive the car in a hilly area for short trips only. That is largely due to the fact that my wife is unable to sit in the vehicle for more than 15 minutes or so at a time because she finds the seats to be so uncomfortable. To her, it is like sitting on a concrete park bench. Has anyone else experienced this problem and found a solution to it?

gagrice · February 2005

That is largely due to the fact that my wife is unable to sit in the vehicle for more than 15 minutes or so at a time because she finds the seats to be so uncomfortable.

Welcome to Edmund's forum.

If you take a look at the consumer reviews for the Escape, that is probably the biggest complaint uncomfortable seats. You might get sheepskin seat covers and add some foam to give a little comfort.

yerth10 · March 2005

http://www.greencarcongress.com

Nassau county in New York adds 7.
I think Escape Hybrid will compensate for the loss of sales of Explorer, Expedition, Excursion if more and more governments (County, State & Fed) but it.

scudrunner · March 2005

Just now started reading this forum so this msg is belated. Your arguments are in vain, my friend. Ford is not the enemy, for they only build what their customers will buy. When the American public (as well as other nations) get their collective selfish heads out of their backsides and quit buying the large auto's, then we will see more green products. It happened once before during the Carter admin and the oil shortages. The neocons will soon have gas prices here in the US up to $3/gal, then we will see change. Sociology 101 says the average American will be influenced only by hitting their pocketbook... But this adversarial, blame everyone else attitude is childish and intellectually inferior. You have not served a positive purpose here...

Gene

explorerx4 · March 2005

i am 6'1 with a 34 inch inseam. i drove my wife's escape to work to today, so i adjusted the driver's seat to fit me. i just sat in the back and have plenty of leg room. headroom is close but there is enough. pleny of roon for 2, not for 3. the rear seatback has a reclining feature. it's a limited model. i don't know if that makes a difference.

gagrice · March 2005

Already the sales of Crown Vic & Grand Marq has declined last year.

I would say they lost ground to their main competition the Impala, that had a terrific year with a big gain in sales. It was the number one US made car in sales. If you think that the average Cab rider is going to put up with an Escape you do not know people very well. They accept that kind of discomfort while on vacation in third world countries. They won't accept it here.

larsb · March 2005

quote gagrice-"If you think that the average Cab rider is going to put up with an Escape you do not know people very well. They accept that kind of discomfort while on vacation in third world countries. They won't accept it here."-end quote

OK, once again, the Escape has virtually the same passenger seating space as the larger cabs !! It rates virutally the same on passenger comfort !!

How long are your cab rides, generally? Mine have been usually 5-15 minutes, with occasional longer ones. Not really long enough to get "discomforted" for most people, EVEN IF it were true that the Escape is uncomfortable compared to a Crown Vic, which is it NOT....

yerth10 · March 2005

Actually Escape is more comfortable since it has a reclining rear seat which is not available in Crown Vic & Grand Marq.

Escape is like 1st class while other 2 are like 3rd world country.

gagrice · March 2005

Escape is like 1st class while other 2 are like 3rd world country.

You guys have lost it. Trying to say that an Escape is as comfortable as a Crown Vic. I rented an Escape ONCE, never again. You cannot get two large suitcases in the back if the seat is up. Even one of the Escape owners on this forum said the back seats were not that great, good for two people only. That is not Taxi cab usable.... Maybe the Altima hybrid if it ever shows up...

larsb · March 2005

quote gagrice-"That is not Taxi cab usable.... Maybe the Altima hybrid if it ever shows up..."-end quote

Time will tell - that SF Cab Company will know in a few months if they made a mistake, and we will hear about either through the grapevine or new stories...Here's betting they did not......:)

ANT14 · March 2005

Don't just think about comfort, but keep in mind the abuse the vehicle will have as a cab. We are talking about 12-16 hours of running time, numerous pot-holes to deal with, the abuse the structure itself will have. The CV is built for that, and the structure can take impacts rather well.

larsb · March 2005

Found this on the web today:

my experience driving FEH cabs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I drive for one of the companies in San Francisco that has a few FEHs. I've had the chance to drive one twice. The first time out I got something like 27MPG (taking it easy on the throttle, hadn't discovered the trip computer yet.) The second time I averaged about 34, which included several freeway trips (no more than 62MPH) and also a lot of attempts at optimizing. If you don't have traffic behind you to deal with on flat stretches, you can deal with block-by-block stop signs without having the engine kick in very much.

Bearing that in mind, if you were to try and drive the thing like a cab driver normally would, especially considering SF's hills, I would expect around 25. Other drivers who drive them regularly tell me they're now paying $10/day vs. $20+ with the Crown Vics.

side note - the day after my second shift with the FEH I experimented with shutting the engine of the Crown Vic off at lights, coasting down hills in neutral, accelerating ve-e-ery slowly from stops etc., and couldn't do better than 16 or so.

-ben

gagrice · March 2005

He tells HIS experience with the Escape. I am curious about the passengers reactions. After all that is the most important aspect of owning a taxi cab.

larsb · March 2005

I'm sure complaints from passengers would have made it into the narrative, had they been a part of the story....:)

Kirstie_H · March 2005

A reporter with a major national magazine is looking for a few car shoppers who are in the process of searching for a car and are deliberating between a hybrid and conventional vehicle. He would be interested to talk to people considering the upcoming hybrid Toyota Highlander and/or RX400h.

We are also looking members who went through similar deliberations but have already made a purchase, including the Ford Escape, Honda Civic, Honda Accord or the Toyota Prius. Please send a brief description of your experience along with your contact information to Kirsten Holguin at kholguin@edmunds.com by Thursday, March 10th.

larsb · March 2005

Quoting the Escape Taxi driver:

"I've had no negative comments and a lot of positive ones. A lot of people say it's easier to enter/exit the Escape, and that it feels roomier once they're inside. A few are interested in hearing about the technology (as much of it as I'm able to describe, anyway.)"

-ben

sstoots · March 2005

I bought a 2005 4WD FEH two weeks ago and have been very impressed with the comfort, ride, and fuel economy. I drive around 17 miles to work 2x daily. The ride is about 30% highway (two lane road at 45 mph) and 70% stop and go with 10 stop lights. I average around 29 mph . The biggest impact the car has had has been on me! I used to drive fast with no regard to gas mileage. Now, my chief concern is gas mileage. I drive slower, safer, and arrive at work generally less agitated than I did before. Is the performance lacking? Well, I previously drove a 5 speed 220 HP Maxima. So by comparison, of course. Is it acceptable? It is to me. I love the truck. I have always been environmentally conscious; now I am walking the walk and talking the talk.

sstoots · March 2005

By the way, when I said 'I average around 29 mph'
I meant 29 MPG (miles per gallon). I drive slower now, but not that slow!

yerth10 · March 2005

http://www.greencarcongress.com

SRP Utility in Phoenix, Arizona adds 5 Escape Hybrids. We will hear more such news as Gas prices settles at $ 2+.

Small # may add upto big gain.

csgeo · March 2005

I am considering an Escape hybrid, but as a geologist I am one of the 5% that actually use a SUV off road for work. I know it can't replace my full size bronco, but does the low end torque of the electric motor make up to some extent for the lack of low range? I suspect the escape can probably handle about 75% of the off road use I would give it, and I have a fair idea of what kind of conditions I will see before I go in the field, and when I need a real crawler.

electrictroy · March 2005

Before you buy it, you'd better research off-roaders' opinions. I've heard many sad stories about the Ford SUV Hybrid refusing to climb even moderate hills (to avoid burning out the electric).

If you want low-end torque, look to a diesel SUV.

troy

larsb · March 2005

Hold on there: Let's not give hearsay advice like that. Cite examples of "many sad stories" of the Escape Hybrid "refusing to climb even moderate hills" if you think that is true (it's not.)

The Escape Hybrid does not "shut down" when the going gets rough. The system provides assistance to the gas engine when required. It comes in a 4WD version that is not solely dependent on the electric system for it's capability.

Here is a review of an Escape Hybrid that indicates off roading so easily that the gas engine did not even have to be used at all:

"You see, the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid is a full hybrid---meaning it can run solely with its gasoline engine, only with its electric motor or a combination of both without ever needing to be plugged in. In my case, the electric motor was the sole power source as I slowly navigated the ruts, rocks, hills and brush on the trail. Due to our slow speed, the Escape's gasoline engine never kicked in, and as a result, we moved along almost silently; the only sound made was the crunching of small rocks being displaced under our tires."

From:

http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/index.cfm/action/showArticle/aid/139212

And this:

"Envelope pushed

Our destination was a hillside ranch with an extraordinary view of greater Los Angeles . The challenge was to weave and bob up a moderately challenging dirt trail. It proved no match for our AWD Escape, which should be able to handle all but the worst off-roading an owner can throw its way."

From:

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:DaE1pSzybz0J:www.bullz-eye.com/carreviews/2004/ford_e- - scape_hybrid.htm+%22escape+hybrid%22+%2Bhills&hl=en&lr=&strip=1

Also:

"Most important, the Ford Escape Hybrid can perform at any level, on-road or off-road, as well as, if not better, than the standard Escape."

So if you want a diesel, get a diesel, but don't eliminate the Escape Hybrid as an off road option..

csgeo · March 2005

I figure I have to keep the bronco and just keep rebuilding it. Diesels trigger my alergies it is an expensive option and most are tanks. It is hard to beat a 6cyl bronco with the wide ratio 5spd I put in for off road. I am looking at the escape for a commuter, utility and light off road. Thanks for the input looks like more are coming in.

Chris

gagrice · March 2005

From an earlier poster here on Edmund's. I would take one for a test drive before signing on the line. People have complained of problems with the Prius also on slick surfaces. Something to do with traction control.

A wierd thing happended this weekend while testing the 4WD capabilities on a beach. This weekend we recieved our first snowfall here and I wanted to try to go out on the beach with my 4wd escape.

I think I understand from some of the road tests why this happens (the computer overrides accelerator requests) but the vechicle when it get stuck seems to not be able to use the full engine power to extricate itself.

For instance I drove a small way off the parking lot to start on trail heading out on the beach. The first part had a small pothole (less than 1'). The vechicle would NOT go climb the pothole even in LOW gear.

when going into reverse even less power.

The RPM's never get beyond 1500rpm. I spent about 20 harrowing mins rocking back forth to get back to the parking lot (I only ventured about 30' off the pavement)

sdctcher, "Ford Escape Hybrid" #895, 31 Dec 2004 9:03 pm

larsb · March 2005

you forgot to mention that you yourself got a VERY OFFROAD CAPABLE 4WD Toyota stuck in sand one time.....Not a Hybrid....nothing to do with Hybrids......Remember that?

*ANY* 4wd vehicle under the wrong circumstances can get trapped in sand, with the wrong tires and the wrong inflation.

This is not a Hybrid phenomenon.

Here is ANOTHER Hybrid Escape post, #978 on this thread, who had no trouble in the sand, except in reverse gear:

"My 4 x 4 Escape arrived in Dec. on Long Island. My dealer put a Reese Class III trailer hitch on for me. It was a tight fit and sometimes the muffler bumps into it. I put a piece of heater hose on the offending part of the hitch and it eliminated the noise.

I have a 20' outboard ski boat I take to the beach 5 minutes from me. I'm sure the Escape would overheat on a really long tow. Just to test it I brought the boat down to the ramp and it pulled just fine.

I decide to see what it could really do and I pulled it on to the soft, sandy beach. The tires sank about five inches into the sand and the Escape had no trouble pulling the boat and trailer through 500' of beach by electric only! I had to step on it to get the engine to come on. I was rolling at about 5 mph. I know in reverse only the electric motors operate. So I tried backing up on the sand and I was only able to move about 5 feet before the the gas pedal was flat to the floor and the motors cut out.

Don't drive into anything you can't drive out of. I had the same problem in deep snow. I imagine backing out of a steep ravine would be impossible. Besides that the Escape is one of the best handling 4 x 4s I've driven, especially in the snow!

I'm getting 24mph in suburban driving. I had to learn a light touch on the gas to get it to 30 mph before the gas kicks in. There has got to be other chips available to do delay the engine from coming on. My car has 2600 on it and it sometimes goes out to 35 mph before kicking in even in the cold weather."

So there are trade-offs in any car purchase, as we all know.

But the 4wd capability of the Escape Hybrid IS up to par with the gas only version of the Escape.

csgeo · March 2005

20' ski boat that sounds like you might have been 1 or 2 lb over the tow rating. That is some good info on towing and 4wd capability. I figure like most tow ratings it is to protect the mfg warranty, and you usually can pull a lot more if you use some common sense.

Chris

Kirstie_H · March 2005

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h

gagrice · March 2005

I think your post further establishes the inadequacies of the hybrid AWD in the Escape. We do get into situations that require us to back out. For people that never go off-road it is not important. I started building up 4X4s while in high school, so that is what I look for in an off road vehicle. I don't like to get stuck. I think the hybrids are to complex to be practical for any off-road use.

larsb · March 2005

If you need to go backwards with 4WD capability (do trucks even do that at all?) then put a winch on the escape's back bumper or under the back bumper...

Don't eliminate an otherwise awesome truck just because it can't backup with 200 ft lbs or torque !! That would be laughable !!!

stevedebi · March 2005

"Don't eliminate an otherwise awesome truck just because it can't backup with 200 ft lbs or torque !! That would be laughable !!!"

There would be no laughing if one was stuck in the wilderness and unable to back out of a, shall we say, sticky situation...

Stay on the road with the Escape Hybrid... it was made to save gas, not go off into the boonies.

rfruth · March 2005

Ford says the Escape hybrid is a no compromise SUV (and was named 2005 North American Truck of the Year) yet max towing is less with the hybrid so should the Escape stay on pavement or is it just the hybrid ?

PF_Flyer · March 2005

Let's be careful to not fall into the trap of talking about each other instead of the topics!

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

The St Patrick's Day party...err... SUBARU CREW Chat is on tonight. Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

larsb · March 2005

I can say information is bad when it IS without a doubt bad, can't I?

This is a fact, not speculation, hearsay, or from my brother's friend's neighbor's cousin's ex-wife:

A Hybrid SUV which can tow 1000 pounds WILL NOT have trouble driving itself up "moderate hills." That's just not physically possible.

That pothole story regards someone stuck in SAND, which can debiliate ANY type of low power SUV, not just a Hybrid.

So let's not go telling people flat out misinformation like "the Escape Hybrid cant even pull itself up a hill or out of a pothole."

gagrice · March 2005

So let's not go telling people flat out misinformation like "the Escape Hybrid cant even pull itself up a hill or out of a pothole."

What do you attribute the poster's difficulty in getting out of a pothole? Personally I think it is the traction control that is the culprit. If a wheel slips it transfers the power. If all wheels are slipping it shuts off the power to them. That has caused at least one poster enough problem with his Prius to park it in the garage during the winter. I think you are in denial when you try to defend the Hybrids. They are not the solution to everyone's needs. In fact they only satisfy a very limited audience that are willing to pay extra to feel "Green".

larsb · March 2005

It might indicate a problem of some sort, sure. It might be some kind of so far undiagnosed problem, but remember: in today's world, car companies can and do FIX problems once they know about them. Especially in important cars like this one is to Ford and to the world.

Just because one or two (or ten) people get stuck in sandy potholes does not mean one can conclude properly that "a Ford Escape Hybrid cannot pull itself up a moderate hill."

yerth10 · March 2005

In fact they only satisfy a very limited audience that are willing to pay extra to feel "Green".

They pay extra and get extra+++ in return as gas prices goes up & up & up. At the end of this month, we will have the 2005-Q1 sales data and that will show whether it is limited audience or unlimited.

csgeo · March 2005

I would think that when wheel spin causing traction control shutdown occurs, then applying a little park break would help to bias the differentials.

To my question about low end torque of the electric motor I found a spec of 100 ftlb @ 840 rpm. The final drive ratio is 2.93:1, but I haven't seen any spec on the CVT effective reduction ratios. Has any one seen this spec?

stevedebi · March 2005

"Ford says the Escape hybrid is a no compromise SUV (and was named 2005 North American Truck of the Year) yet max towing is less with the hybrid so should the Escape stay on pavement or is it just the hybrid ?"

The normal ICE only Escape with V6 engine tows about 3000 lbs, as I recall, and would be fine for light off road duty, so long as one was careful not to get into "sticky situations" that would require advanced 4WD techniques.

stevewa · March 2005

Research on the issue using the service manual has led some of us to the conclusion that the reason some people have gotten "stuck" in the Escape Hybrid is because they were actually not aggressive enough on the accelerator pedal. If they try to start too slowly the electric motor won't rotate quickly enough, and a single phase of the stator may overheat. The computer is programmed to cut power until the temperature drops back under the limit. This usually only takes a few seconds. A heavier foot would start things moving faster, so the current cycles through all the phases and none of them get too hot.

This is just a theory at the moment but it fits with the symptoms.

noted · March 2005

I'm considering an Escape. Will be living below Yosemite, going up and down several miles. I like the regenerative idea a lot but I wonder about really long hills.

Going up, it seems like you'd run out of juice and be left with the gas engine which might leave you limping up. Has anyone experienced this?

Going down, it seems like you could fill up the batteries. At this point I'm guessing you just have the normal brakes. True? Anyone experienced this? Any problems?

Thanks.

Btw I saw they expect the 2006 in a couple months. Any info or rumors on what will be different?

gagrice · March 2005

A heavier foot would start things moving faster, so the current cycles through all the phases and none of them get too hot.

That could explain why the magazine writers did not have a problem off-road. They always drive like maniacs.

stevewa · March 2005

The "gas engine alone" is actually just fine for hill climbing. This is because the engine is still more efficient as it can take any energy that would be lost in a normal vehicle and generate more electricity with it, using that to power the electric motor. Thus it's possible to have electric assist even when not using the battery.

Behavior I've observed on long descents is that when the battery gets full the motor will actually spin up the gas engine to consume some of the charge. The 4-wheel disks are excellent brakes so even if you are getting no regeneration you still have plenty of stopping power.

cdold · March 2005

"I like the regenerative idea a lot but I wonder about really long hills."

I live in a valley. Going anywhere requires a 700-1500 foot climb. Going uphill has not been a problem. The grades aren't completely straight, and you will recharge the battery from engine power during slack parts.
The Escape isn't as obvious in this regard as the Civic Hybrid, where charge and assist operate more like I would expect them to, and the display is easier to observe, but the end result is still the same. Even going uphill, you don't need all of the power available. Accelerating uphill would require more power, but driving at a steady speed isn't a problem. If the hill is steep enough and long enough to cause you trouble, it will be causing trouble for every four cylinder sedan as well, so you'll have company in the slow lane.

Going downhill is different. The Honda has D-S-L, and S provides good regen braking for a few miles, until the battery is full. Then there is very little engine braking. The Escape has D-L. L is a nice measure of hold back, not really a Low gear, but the battery seems to fill pretty quickly, and then the engine speeds up to an uncomfortable sounding level. I usually put it in D and ride the brakes at that point.

The battery pack is either effectively much smaller in the Escape than the Civic, or Ford is being incredibly conservative in the charge/discharge range that they maintain.

electrictroy · March 2005

"single phase of the stator may overheat. The computer is programmed to cut power until the temperature drops back under the limit. This usually only takes a few seconds. A heavier foot would start things moving faster, so the current cycles through all the phases and none of them get too hot."

===================================-==============

What if it "gets too hot" while climbing a desert ridge? The car will just let you sit?

troy

docc · March 2005

"The normal ICE only Escape with V6 engine tows about 3000 lbs, as I recall, and would be fine for light off road duty, so long as one was careful not to get into "sticky situations" that would require advanced 4WD techniques."

The hybrid has a substantially reduced towing weight only because the weight of the batteries shift the vehicle's weight rearward. Towing adds weight to the rear, and the batteries reduce the amount that can be accommodated. That should have no adverse effect on off-roading.

stevewa · March 2005

As long as the wheels are turning there is little likelyhood of an overheat condition. The motors are water cooled by a seperate cooling loop from the engine. The only way I've seen it lose power is trying to slowly back up a steep hill from a stop.

There is a seperate overheat protection for the 4wd system which is carried over from the conventional model.

stevewa · March 2005

If memory serves, the 1000 pound limit is the same on the 4-cylinder Escape.

The 4WD system is identical in all 2005 models. The only difference is what is hooked up on the input side.

donbaron · March 2005

Im am sitting on the fence with regard to Buying the Escape Hybrid. I test drove one the other day. I am satisfied with the ride and pick-up however I wish there were more options availavle. Like the Model A, you can have any color interior as long as it is Gray. I know Hybrids will come to be common place in a few years. But with gas prices rising and demand for these vehicles growing; I might be kicking my self if I don't buy one now. Oh another one of my concerns about the Escape is the ability of the AC system to handle the Florida Heat. The salesman tells me Max Air Runs only when the engine is running? Can't wait until a Hybrid Freestyle arrives!

Ford Escape Hybrid

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