Well, billy, I presume first of all you've been paid for it or that the truck driver has the check. If that's the case, yes, you can give up the car and title by just signing it; however, it is a GOOD idea to provide a Bill of Sale with your and the owner's name on it, and the VIN # of the car itself. Oh, also a good idea to get the new owner's name, address and if possible Driver's license number. Different states vary in their laws, but if the plates go with the car in your state when you sell, then it's very important that you know the real and true identity of the buyer, to protect yourself. If you keep the plates, this is less important.
Once you've been paid and you hand over the title to the driver, you are no longer the owner, it's a done deal....if he drops it on the highway, too bad, he can settle up with the new owner.
Glad you sold her, that's great...now you can buy another old car
I recently inherited a 1970 Old 98 convertible- but for a couple of scratches, it is in perfect shape- everything works right down to the map light ! I wondered what the car is worth- can anyone help me ?
Probably $7,500 more or less, depending on how sharp it looks in all the details....in spite of a nice body, if it needs a top and tires and the engines greasy, deduct accordingly. A really primo one could pull $9,000, a good runner with lots of little problems closer to $5,000.
For Edmunds to be stuck with "wellengaged' is like some hapless owner of, say, an XK140 to have no better mechanic at his/her disposal than, say, the local Jaguar/Acura/BMW dealer.
You cannot shorten your list of placemarks. You can only substitute each old one with "Topics Returned Zero" or something like that.
Topics have to be frozen all the time because bandwidth is extremely limited. Some of my placemarks are frozen topics that are no longer on the list in their respective boards, so they can't even be changed to a "Topics Returned". They're just stuck there.
You can't re-arrange a long list of placemarks so that the important ones are at the top. If the placemarks you're interested in are at the bottom of your list, you have to wait for the whole list to load.
I've been asking this for a year, but are there any plans afoot to go to a server that can do justice to your product? How long do you plan to let your users suffer the incompetence of "wellengaged"?
I have the following car as an opportunity to buy so I need help for a valuation, it is not the most common car, so if you don't know it could you please forward this to a specialist for a valuation.
It is a RHD Honda S800, genuine Japanese Built Race car, RSC.
This is the E-mail I got from the seller..
"It was one of 2 imported to NSW (Australia) and raced by team Honda Australia.
The RSC car can be identified from converted standard cars by several points: body sound deadening tar never applied, ID plates were not used, 800 clutch hose bracket replaced with 600, different shape of transmission tunnel, standard cars need to be adjusted with a hammer to fit 5-speed, and no rubbers between chassis and body. My car includes the following RSC parts that came with it: torsion bars, 2 x 5-speed CR gearboxes, cylinder head stamped RSC, light weight valves and heavy duty valve springs, special starter motor, special shock absorbers front and rear, roll bar, and clutch.
Unfortunaelty, the original RSC carbs have been lost, first thing they did was to change to Webbers.
The value of the car is such that I feel it should be re-done to a higher standard. Both front and rear guards are flared. (I have a pair of new front guards and would have used these to return the car as close to ‘67 specs as possible.) I have also photocopies of three photos from 67 that a freind copied from a man who was at the time the team manager.
The identity of the car was researched unfortunately none of us have had success in getting Honda to confirm chassis number. The engine number matches chassis, however appears to be a new replacement block. Included with the car was the original broken block, (polished), and the original light weight crankshaft with broken connecting rod!
I would prefer to sell the car to an Australian as it is the last complete RSC car in the country. (There are some RSC bits in either SA or Vic that are remnants from a RSC raced in Vic that was written of a long time ago.)
About 5 or 6 years ago a Japanese dealer offered me A$25,000 (US$16,000), and I rejected the offer. He asked what I planned to do with the car to I replied Targa Tasmania (Road rally of some fame down here). He then offered to restore the car, allow me to then use it in one Targa, then air freight to Japan!"
He went on about race history etc.
Is this too tough for you or any of your mates? I hope not!
These kinds of cars don't have much reference to determine market value, so basically what we professional appraisers do is throw them in with similar types of cars.
By similar I mean a type of "minor" race car with (apparently) no documented racing history.
This car would be worth more in Japan than anywhere else for the above reasons...it's the one country where someone would care enough to pay a substantial sum for it, and it would be hard to argue that it could be worth more than say a similar vintage Lotus Super 7.
I'd say the Japanese dealer was right on the money and the man should have grabbed that price. The car may be rare and interesting, but it's really supply and demand that dictate value.
Of course, the point of view I am giving you is what the car would bring in the U.S., as is, at a prestige auction, and I doubt it would be bid over $10,000 here.
This is not to say it isn't an interesting bit of automotive history. But if you paid $16K for it and then further restored it, you would, in my opinion, go to your grave with the car before you ever broke even on it. However, if FUN is your object, then the money isn't the issue.
That's an excellent idea. A documented race history would be of substantial value, as would the car's possible eligibility for certain worldwide vintage events, which you have to ask about on an individual basis. These days, people pay money for old race cars they can actually use.
Hey all. I have a "thing" for the 1911 Marmon that won the first Indianapolis 500. I know the original is in the track museum, but I wondered if there were any more like it built that year? I'd love to be able to buy a piece of history like that. I don't want a replica, but an actual 1911 Marmon, if one exists. I'd imagine if so, the price would be sky-high.
I'd have thought cars that old would be much more expensive. As for the drivability...they drive tractors on the roads around here, sometimes through the middle of town. I'm not worried about local traffic being unduly impeded by an old Marmon!
Actually, the old, old cars are really fun and quite reliable IF you can get them out of modern traffic...I drove a 1922 I think is was...an Auburn...not too long ago and it moved along okay...it's just that you have to get used to zero brakes and very hard steering at low speeds. Cars of the vintage era require a very loose hand on the wheel and a good deal of alertness.
But some of the old cars are beautifully made while others are really piles of iron...but a Marmon is really a middle-class car so it's made a lot better than say a Chevrolet.
I am new to your conference and have two questions. My mother wants to sell her 1972 Plymouth Duster, original owner, 110,000 miles and in nice condition. 1)Where is a good place to advertise (Southern Calif.) and 2) what is a good way to determine a selling price?
and possibly place an ad there, even though the car is not really a collectible. Still, they are sturdy old cars and there is some interest in them as dependable transportation that is easy to repair and looks somewhat retro.
You might also consider an ad in any large metro newspaper. This usually brings fast results.
As for price, it's just a nice old used car, so whatever the market will bear for a good car is probably the range. Again, you can check Hemmings and see what people are asking. Another place to look for comparables is
Thank you for the advice. There used to be what was called The Brown Book (or green) which listed automobiles which were too old for the Kelly Blue Book. Does that still exist? And if so, where might it be found?
Kelley has its own Early Car Edition, probably available at your library.
They list a 72 Duster 6 cylinder at $1,975 in average condition and $3,975 in top shape. For a Duster 340 V-8, it would be $2,875 in average condition and $5500 in top shape. Top shape means a 9 on a scale of 1 to 10.
Shiftright, I've always wondered if you were related to Nigel Shiftright, anachronism and contributor to Road & Track. Just clicked on your profile, and find that apparently you ARE Nigel Shiftright. It's funny, the latest strip about judging made me think of you. Nigel and Egan are the two most compelling personalities at R&T. Is it true that they make Egan use the servant's entrance?
I have much respect for R&T but get the feeling it's written by guys several stations in life higher than me, for guys several stations in life higher than me. Egan, on the other hand, is just--"just"--an articulate gearhead, hence my snide remark about the servant's entrance.
Speaking of automotive anachronisms, all I have to do to feel like one is go over to the sedans and coupes conferences. Much more activity there. You could roll a bowling ball through this conference and not hit anyone.
Well, this conference is indicative of the percentage of the people interested in classic cars versus cars in general. You must remember that Edmunds is essentially a Consumer "empowerment" site--this is my interpretation of its mission anyway--so, as our user base increases, the number of people visiting CLASSICS should increase proportionately.
Yeah, we're a small group, but people do trade very useful information here.
It's a great site with a great host, and I enjoy it immensely. It's just that when I go to, say, the SAAB 9-5 site and see five posts in one day, it demonstrates the difference in appeal between classic/special interest cars and mainstream sedans--not that SAABs are mainstream. It also makes me realize how non-confrontational we are compared to some. They go at it hammer and tongs at the 9-5 site, then come back for more, every day. I expect them to show up on Oprah some day.
I think part of the "passion" is among younger drivers, to whom the older cars and their history don't mean much...as one might expect generation to generation. Also, I think new cars are much more aggressive than older cars (excepting the really brawny musclecars) and hency the arguments are more agressive as well.
I'm new to your conference, so I'll start off with the cars that I own and would like to own. I have two "oldies": the first, owned since 1969, is a 1964 Galaxie 500XL convertible, peacock with black interior, white top. Going back to the 70's, I almost threw the car away (east coast rust) but decided to hang on to it, since thay had just stopped making convertibles. I cosmetically restored the car, and, I have to say, it is a head turner. But.... The car has the typical Ford rust underneath, but still runs fairly strong and tight, for a convert. It has a 352-4v 250HP, 3.50 rear. The body has 205,000 while the motor has over 90,000. The original trans (auto) was rebuilt at 170,000; no complaints there. My second car, purchased in 1989 for $4,000, is a 90% original, second owner, 58 TBird hardtop (no lies-the first owner was a 93 year old lady who hadn't started the car since 1985.) Car has original dealer paperwork showing the cost, options, and the credit ($700)she and her husband received for trading in their 1950 Nash). The car is white with a blck/white interior. Here's the real kicker. She told me that she and her husband really wanted the two seater, but missed being able to order a new one by few weeks!! I've replaced the dashpad, changed the tires, rechromed the back bumper, and replaced the front seat covers. Under certain conditions, especially around dusk, the white square bird really stands out. Motor's never been apart, but has a blowby problem, especially while cruising at highway speeds. No rust whatsoever, but car has been repaired and could use a good paint job. How far do you think I should go with this car before I'm just dumping money down the drain? In the past, I've owned a few interesting cars: 1957 Chev Bel Air 4dr hardtop, 283 powerpack, three speed Hurst, 4:11 rear; 1968 Merc Cyclone GT 4sp 302 4V; and a 1965 Vette 327 300, two tops, Nassau blue in and out (purchased new); 1985 black TurboCoupe. (Sold the Vette in 1966; big mistake.) Last month, while in Manchester NH at a street car show, I saw a car that almost got me to take the plunge for a third oldie: a 1970 Merc Cyclone Spoiler GT. 429 4v, orange with black interior, 4sp, shaker hood. Asking $16,500. Don't get me wrong; I love the GM muscle cars (GTO's, 442's Chevelles; etc) but there's still a lot of them out there. How many Cyclones (or Torino Cobras/GT's) do you see? Even though they may not be as fast as the GM counterparts, we're not purchasing these cars to dragstrip, so who cares about one or two car lengths? Sorry for the long winded introductory.
I agree with the comments about younger drivers, but for the record, some of us youngsters still have the love for carbs and running boards.
Now I freely admit that I am not your typical youngster - I was racing cars in England at 16, and karts before that. I guess a lot of my passion for the old comes from a very English working class background, where cars had to be maintained and kept running because the money wasn't there to replace them.
Now that I am in North America I am learning a healthy respect and admiration for the North American cars of the 50s, 60s and 70s - cars that I never saw in my own youth.
So whilst I am often the youngest at car meets, I for one will take my Jag over a Lexus, and will still get more excited about an E-type than an S-type, an Alfa spyder than a Toyota spyder (or Renault spyder for that matter).
Does anyone know how old a car has to be in Canada to be considered a classic? My great aunt gave me her 1981 Olds Omega (not really "classic" material) and I was wondering when it would be classic. It has only 80000km on it and a little V6 so it can keep up with traffic. Not bad for my first car at all.
True "classics" are 1948 or older, so you've got a wait, and even then it's probably not going on the list. Real "classics" are very special and very rare cars.
However, I believe in most states in the US your car can wear a "collector" car license plate after 25 years, so perhaps Canada has a similar arrangement. This doesn't make the car worth any more, but at least it gets recognition for having survived 25 winters!
a car becomes immune from emissions tests at 20. Don't think it is entitled to classic plates though - I have only seen a few of them, and can't think of anything post-war that had them.
Here you can get historic plates for a car when it's 25. I'm not sure how old a car has to be to be immune from the emissions test, though. I had to put a 1979 Newport through emissions in 1997, and a 1986 Monte Carlo in 1998. That was the last time I went through the emissions test, but at the time, I think 1976 and older cars were exempt. And not all parts of MD require the emissions test, I found out. The Monte Carlo was given to me by my mother. All the year the car was in St. Mary's co., it never went through a test. I had it about 2 months when the notice came in the mail. (I live in Anne Arundel Co.)
Does anybody know if police cars are exempt from the emissions test? I have a 1989 Gran Fury, that I've had for just over 2 years, and haven't gotten a notice on it yet.
According to the CCCA, classics are cars built from 1925-1948. I don't aspire to this definition but they can define their club however they want. The 25 year rule is out to lunch too. A 1973 Granada will never be a classic, not now, not in 2073 when it's 100 years old (no offense to any Granada owners out there).
Comments
Once you've been paid and you hand over the title to the driver, you are no longer the owner, it's a done deal....if he drops it on the highway, too bad, he can settle up with the new owner.
Glad you sold her, that's great...now you can buy another old car
I wondered what the car is worth- can anyone help me ?
Reply to Bruce at uclaesq@aol.com or here.
You cannot shorten your list of placemarks. You can only substitute each old one with "Topics Returned Zero" or something like that.
Topics have to be frozen all the time because bandwidth is extremely limited. Some of my placemarks are frozen topics that are no longer on the list in their respective boards, so they can't even be changed to a "Topics Returned". They're just stuck there.
You can't re-arrange a long list of placemarks so that the important ones are at the top. If the placemarks you're interested in are at the bottom of your list, you have to wait for the whole list to load.
I've been asking this for a year, but are there any plans afoot to go to a server that can do justice to your product? How long do you plan to let your users suffer the incompetence of "wellengaged"?
It is a RHD Honda S800, genuine Japanese Built Race car, RSC.
This is the E-mail I got from the seller..
"It was one of 2 imported to NSW (Australia) and raced by team Honda Australia.
The RSC car can be identified from converted standard cars by several points: body sound deadening tar never applied, ID plates were not used, 800 clutch hose bracket replaced with 600, different shape of transmission tunnel, standard cars need to be adjusted with a hammer to fit 5-speed, and no rubbers between chassis and body. My car includes the following RSC parts that came with it: torsion bars, 2 x 5-speed CR gearboxes, cylinder head stamped RSC, light weight valves and heavy duty valve springs, special starter motor, special shock absorbers front and rear, roll bar, and clutch.
Unfortunaelty, the original RSC carbs have been lost, first thing they did was to change to Webbers.
The value of the car is such that I feel it should be re-done to a higher standard. Both front and rear guards are flared. (I have a pair of new front guards and would have used these to return the car as close to ‘67 specs as possible.) I have also photocopies of three photos from 67 that a freind copied from a man who was at the time the team manager.
The identity of the car was researched unfortunately none of us have had success in getting Honda to confirm chassis number. The engine number matches chassis, however appears to be a new replacement block. Included with the car was the original broken block, (polished), and the original light weight crankshaft with broken connecting rod!
I would prefer to sell the car to an Australian as it is the last complete RSC car in the country. (There are some RSC bits in either SA or Vic that are remnants from a RSC raced in Vic that was written of a long time ago.)
About 5 or 6 years ago a Japanese dealer offered me A$25,000 (US$16,000), and I rejected the offer. He asked what I planned to do with the car to I replied Targa Tasmania (Road rally of some fame down here). He then offered to restore the car, allow me to then use it in one Targa, then air freight to Japan!"
He went on about race history etc.
Is this too tough for you or any of your mates? I hope not!
These kinds of cars don't have much reference to determine market value, so basically what we professional appraisers do is throw them in with similar types of cars.
By similar I mean a type of "minor" race car with (apparently) no documented racing history.
This car would be worth more in Japan than anywhere else for the above reasons...it's the one country where someone would care enough to pay a substantial sum for it, and it would be hard to argue that it could be worth more than say a similar vintage Lotus Super 7.
I'd say the Japanese dealer was right on the money and the man should have grabbed that price. The car may be rare and interesting, but it's really supply and demand that dictate value.
Of course, the point of view I am giving you is what the car would bring in the U.S., as is, at a prestige auction, and I doubt it would be bid over $10,000 here.
This is not to say it isn't an interesting bit of automotive history. But if you paid $16K for it and then further restored it, you would, in my opinion, go to your grave with the car before you ever broke even on it. However, if FUN is your object, then the money isn't the issue.
Thanks heaps.
But some of the old cars are beautifully made while others are really piles of iron...but a Marmon is really a middle-class car so it's made a lot better than say a Chevrolet.
Thanks in advance for you assistance.
www.hemmings.com
and possibly place an ad there, even though the car is not really a collectible. Still, they are sturdy old cars and there is some interest in them as dependable transportation that is easy to repair and looks somewhat retro.
You might also consider an ad in any large metro newspaper. This usually brings fast results.
As for price, it's just a nice old used car, so whatever the market will bear for a good car is probably the range. Again, you can check Hemmings and see what people are asking. Another place to look for comparables is
www.traderonline.com
AND
classifieds2000.com
Keep in mind that V-8 engines bring more money.
good luck with it,
Shiftright
Thank you.
They list a 72 Duster 6 cylinder at $1,975 in average condition and $3,975 in top shape. For a Duster 340 V-8, it would be $2,875 in average condition and $5500 in top shape. Top shape means a 9 on a scale of 1 to 10.
You are an excellent resource.
Thanks for your kind comments. Nigel seems to have a life of his own now, and tells US what to write and draw...weird, huh?
I have much respect for R&T but get the feeling it's written by guys several stations in life higher than me, for guys several stations in life higher than me. Egan, on the other hand, is just--"just"--an articulate gearhead, hence my snide remark about the servant's entrance.
Speaking of automotive anachronisms, all I have to do to feel like one is go over to the sedans and coupes conferences. Much more activity there. You could roll a bowling ball through this conference and not hit anyone.
Yeah, we're a small group, but people do trade very useful information here.
Shiftright
I have two "oldies": the first, owned since 1969, is a 1964 Galaxie 500XL convertible, peacock with black interior, white top. Going back to the 70's, I almost threw the car away (east coast rust) but decided to hang on to it, since thay had just stopped making convertibles.
I cosmetically restored the car, and, I have to say, it is a head turner. But....
The car has the typical Ford rust underneath, but still runs fairly strong and tight, for a convert. It has a 352-4v 250HP, 3.50 rear. The body has 205,000 while the motor has over 90,000. The original trans (auto) was rebuilt at 170,000; no complaints there.
My second car, purchased in 1989 for $4,000, is a 90% original, second owner, 58 TBird hardtop (no lies-the first owner was a 93 year old lady who hadn't started the car since 1985.) Car has original dealer paperwork showing the cost, options, and the credit ($700)she and her husband received for trading in their 1950 Nash). The car is white with a blck/white interior.
Here's the real kicker. She told me that she and her husband really wanted the two seater, but missed being able to order a new one by few weeks!!
I've replaced the dashpad, changed the tires, rechromed the back bumper, and replaced the front seat covers. Under certain conditions, especially around dusk, the white square bird really stands out.
Motor's never been apart, but has a blowby problem, especially while cruising at highway speeds. No rust whatsoever, but car has been repaired and could use a good paint job. How far do you think I should go with this car before I'm just dumping money down the drain?
In the past, I've owned a few interesting cars: 1957 Chev Bel Air 4dr hardtop, 283 powerpack, three speed Hurst, 4:11 rear; 1968 Merc Cyclone GT 4sp 302 4V; and a 1965 Vette 327 300, two tops, Nassau blue in and out (purchased new); 1985 black TurboCoupe. (Sold the Vette in 1966; big mistake.)
Last month, while in Manchester NH at a street car show, I saw a car that almost got me to take the plunge for a third oldie: a 1970 Merc Cyclone Spoiler GT. 429 4v, orange with black interior, 4sp, shaker hood. Asking $16,500.
Don't get me wrong; I love the GM muscle cars (GTO's, 442's Chevelles; etc) but there's still a lot of them out there. How many Cyclones (or Torino Cobras/GT's) do you see? Even though they may not be as fast as the GM counterparts, we're not purchasing these cars to dragstrip, so who cares about one or two car lengths?
Sorry for the long winded introductory.
Now I freely admit that I am not your typical youngster - I was racing cars in England at 16, and karts before that. I guess a lot of my passion for the old comes from a very English working class background, where cars had to be maintained and kept running because the money wasn't there to replace them.
Now that I am in North America I am learning a healthy respect and admiration for the North American cars of the 50s, 60s and 70s - cars that I never saw in my own youth.
So whilst I am often the youngest at car meets, I for one will take my Jag over a Lexus, and will still get more excited about an E-type than an S-type, an Alfa spyder than a Toyota spyder (or Renault spyder for that matter).
I'll be 29 later this year.
It has only 80000km on it and a little V6 so it can keep up with traffic.
Not bad for my first car at all.
However, I believe in most states in the US your car can wear a "collector" car license plate after 25 years, so perhaps Canada has a similar arrangement. This doesn't make the car worth any more, but at least it gets recognition for having survived 25 winters!
Does anybody know if police cars are exempt from the emissions test? I have a 1989 Gran Fury, that I've had for just over 2 years, and haven't gotten a notice on it yet.
(no offense to any Granada owners out there).