I test drove a Borrego and like it. However, the dealer refused to give me any kind of deal, thus I ended up buying the Hyundai Veracruz. Both vehicles were sticker priced about the same (31K), but I got the Veracruz for 22k (6k rebate) and the lowest offer I got on the Borrego was 27K (3 k rebate). No regrets here for sure.
I would have to say your dealer must have been more interested in moving the Veracruz than the Borrego. I bought a new Borrego LX V6 4WD in early March for 23.5k with the 3k rebate but before downpayment & trade . Out the door after taxes,DMV,trade, & downpayment was just over 19k. With just over 1500 miles local and a 600 mile road trip, I'm loving this ride more everytime I drive it.
I had a similar experience. Test drove a V-6 EX with the luxury package. MSRP was $30,250 ish. During the test drive my wife found the dealer paper work, and come to find out the car was made July 2008. So it had been sitting on their lot almost a full year. I figured they would be willing to make a great deal on it. Nope! The best I got was $25,000 (with 3K and 1K rebate). Just seems like they are not willing to try and sell them.
I can understand the want for a posting by an owner but the car is just released mid 2008. That is correct. Kia does not offer any rebates on BRAND NEW MODELS, be realistic. But as far it being over priced when it is advertised as a LUXURY SUV then you have to compare it to LUXURY SUV's a limited edition 4-runner compared to an EX Borrego is about 3k less. NOT including the now for May 3K rebate off the Borrego. You impatient people!!!
If you are getting an EX Borrego for the price of an LX being around $25K then you were out of your mind to leave that deal.
Borrego is not qualified for a LUXURY vehicle. the basic entry level LUXURY vehicle would include these features (at least); leather, sunroof, TPMS, and v..v.. Kia and the people who beleive that Borrego is a luxury vehicle MUST be out of their mind. It's just my own opinion.
Could someone explain why the USA Borrego engine doesn’t have VVT (variable valve timing)but the Canadian Borrego engine are sold with VVT (i.e. CVVT)?
Kia has come a long way and the Borrego is getting praise. I already miss my truck SUV that I just sold, even though I no longer need one
I am keeping an eye on this one. If prices tank on used models in a few years I may bite. For the current owners I hope they don't depreciate to rapidly, but if they do....
We got ours in March, no problems with it at all. Gas mileage (we have the LX V6) has been much better since we did some long road trips. The dealer was very motivated to get the vehicle out the door, so we got a great deal - around $7500 off the sticker price with no trade-in - he even let us take out for a weekend before we bought it to really get a feel for it. Lots of nice features, lots of room inside, good perfomance and fun to drive.
I bought this suv so I could tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer and was shocked when I got it home and read the manual. ITS 5000 LB CAPACITY IS ONLY GOOD ON TRAILERS WITH BRAKES. THE MAX WITHOUT BRAKES IS 1650 LBS. One of the first things I told the salsman was that I wanted to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. Like me, they thought IF it would tow 5000 lbs it would SURELY tow 3500 lbs. I could not find any mention of this in the sales literature. It appears that the only way you would find this out is when you get home and find it in the owner's manual. The sales manager offered to discuss putting me in a uses pickup truck or a new Borrego with a V8 engine that would cost me $10,000 more. Neither are good for me. I bought a new suv because it was new and the fact is the V8 won't tow 5000 lbs without a trailer with brakes either. Its max is 1650 too. This shows how much Kia tells their sales personel about the vehicles. I have called the dealer, Superior Kia in Cincinnati, four times and although they are sympathic they have always told me they will call me back but don't. I am being stonewall and I am telling you all about it so you don't get bent over too! As of right now, I am planning a law suit.
OK-Calm down. There is no way in the world you can SAFELY TOW ANY TRAILER that weighs 3500 pounds with out brakes on the trailer. For approximately $125.00 you can get a Prodigy brake controller and either wire it in - or have someone do it for another $100.00. In California, you wouldn't be allowed on the road unless your trailer had brakes at that weight.
There is no way I would tow a trailer and my family without having brakes on the trailer and a brake controller in the tow vehicle.
What price is your family's safety worth?
There is no way you can justify a cost of a lawsuit. It would be cheaper to put brakes on your trailer.....and safer too!
Chuck said "There is no way in the world you can SAFELY TOW ANY TRAILER that weighs 3500 pounds with out brakes on the trailer." You are wrong about that. It all depends on the towing vehicle. There are thousands of Bayliner Capris and many other similar boats out their on the highway that do not have and are not required to have brakes on their trailers. California is no exception. I have towed the same boat and trailer with a 2001 Ford Escape without any braking or towing problems for 3 years. The Escape is rated for 3500 lbs and does not require trailer brakes either. I towed it all over the country without any problems. The only reason I didn't buy another Escape was I thought by going to an suv with a 5000 lbs towing capacity I could get a little more life out of the engine and transmission.
I am not familiar with the Prodigy brake controller but if it requires brakes on the trailer, remember there aren't any. I will run a google search to check it out. If it is cheaper than trailer brakes and works, I am interested in it. I have the boat/trailer in the shop and plan to have surge brakes installed. I proposed buying the brake system materials and ask the dealer to provide the labor to install it and was told they would "get back to me as soon as possible". That was three days ago. No calls. If they had accepted my offer, I would not have made this posting. Having it done at the boat shop will run somewhere between $400 and $900.
One other point I would like to make. I beleive I was deceived by the Kia literature and the lack of detailed knowledge about the towing capacity of the Borrego by the sales personnel into buying a vehicle that I told them right up front had to be able to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. Deceptive advertising is illegal in Ohio. It won't tow my boat and trailer therefore they owe it to me to make it right. There are not asterriks or qualifications to the statement that the Borrego will tow 5000 lbs. Even review forums like Edmond don't have anything on this issue. Believe me, it is no small matter to find out you have to put out even more money after you just spent $28 grand on a new car. I will recover the cost of adding the brakes to the trailer one way or another.
As I said...there is no way i would tow a trailer WITH MY FAMILY IN THE TOW VEHICLE without trailer brakes. REGARDLESS of the tow vehicle. It's asking for a disaster!
Chuck1919 so California requires brakes. According to the web page you posted 39 out of the 50 states do not reguire brakes. My post is not about a safety issues regarding towing and the safety of your family. it IS about a DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING PRACTICE BY KIA. Continuing posts about towing your family, I suspect is an attempt to highjack the thread. Are you a Kia dealer?
Actually, the towing capacity is 5,000 pounds for the V6 and 7,500 for the V8. But that's beside the point. I think you're making much ado about nothing. I'm sure your Borrego will tow your trailer without much issue. You will just have to be alert of your stopping distances and also be aware that your brake pads and disks will have a reduced service life if you tow regularly. An easy remedy could be as simple as installing heavy duty pads and/or disks and some high(er) temperature brake fluid.
And I think chuck1919's point simply is that it's dangerous to be towing a trailer that heavy without brakes on it. Were you to have an emergency braking situation, you will immediately have an out of control trailer flailing about behind you, endangering you and your family and other drivers and families around you. Not only that, but your brake system would not only have to deal with the hulking 5,000+ pounds of the Borrego itself but also the additional 3,500 pounds of trailer. That's 8,500+ pounds of mass and momentum to bring to a stop in a hurry, and the stock brake components may simply not be up to that task. They may only be rated up to 7,000 pounds. Do some research on your pads, disks, and brake fluid. Find out what the max ratings are for each and then go on the minimum number. I'm willing to bet the weak link is in the pads. "Good" brake pads are noisy, dusty, and coarse sounding. When dealing with NVH, compromises had to be made. I bet the pads for this vehicle were chosen for comfort and cleanliness, not performance.
Get some better pads and your trade off will be perpetually dirty wheels and brake noise. Get better brake fluid and it may result in a firmer brake pedal. It will solve your particular towing problem, but then I bet you'll be back complaining about that then. :sick: One caveat; heavy duty brake fluid may have an adverse affect on your ABS system.
Exactly. I am not a Kia dealer. My concern is I don't want someone behind me on the road who's trailer weighs over 3,000 pounds without brakes on the trailer. It's very simple-the law of physics says you can't stop, especially in an emergency situation.
You can try to trash Kia all you want, but that's not my concern. What I am stating is fact.
I be saying the same thing if you were trying to tow with a 1/4 ton pick up under the same circumstances.
So get brakes on your boats trailer, and have a fun with your family. They will be much safer when your tow vehicle (whatever it is) is PROPERLY EQUIPPED!!
Are you another Kia dealer? I don't need a lesson in towing safety or brake pads. I probably have more driving and tow experience that bought of you put together. I haven't had an accident in 35 years.
The facts are that Kia's sales literature states that the V6 Borrego will tow 5000 lbs. and there is no listed qualifications or asterisked foot note stating that the trailer had to have brakes . I told the saleman it had to be able to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. This was one of two requirements that I had. The other being 4WD. I would not have bought the suv if I had been told or seen any literature stating that the trailer had to have brakes. I was deceived by the literature and the sales personnel into buying an suv that according to there sales literature should tow 5000 lbs with or without trailer brakes. The true towing capacity is concealed in the owners manual which you don't see until you have purchased the car. I still haven't heard anything back from the dealer. Deceptive advertising is still against the law in Ohio so the dealer will soon be getting a letter from Ohio's Attorney Generals office. Oh by the way, if it is "too much about nothing" then send me the $900 it will cost me to have brakes put on the boat trailer. Please, no more replies from Kia sales people.
Dont be stupid and start a law suit. If I am not mistaken, it is prohibited (against the law) in North America to tow any trailer over 1650 lbs.without trailer brakes. You should know this. I hope you hold a valid driver license. It is part of the test. At least it is where I live. Horst
Horst you are mistaken. According to Chuck1919's website, 39 out of 50 states do not reguire brakes on trailers. I have towed the boat and trailer with the Escape that is rated to tow 3500 lbs for years and have not had any problems braking or otherwise.
Chuck1919, I am complaining because if I had been told or Kia had put in their sales literature that the trailer had to have brakes I would not have bought the Borrego. I would have found a vehicle that would tow the 3500 lbs and I would not have to put out the money to pay for the brakes. You may have that kind of money to throw around but I don't. Regardless of the amount, it doesn't matter to me if it was $1, I would still go after it.
If I were not concerned about the safety of the occupants of the vehicle, I would not have it in the shop to have brakes installed. I hope it doesn't keep you up at night, but I have towed that boat and trailer all over the USA, including California, without trailer brakes. It has been inspected by California weight stations and passed. Makes me wonder if a legally register and licensed vehicle in one state has to be accepted by all states sort of like a marriages.
... You may have that kind of money to throw around but I don't. ...
Then why'd you buy a new Borrego in the first place? Why didn't you get a cheaper tow vehicle? Another Escape perhaps could have suited you since you seem to be pleased with its towing capability. And, no, I'm not a Kia salesman or any other kind of salesman for that matter. I was simply trying to offer some advice to help you sleep at night since Kia's not wanting you to tow an improperly equipped trailer is clearly bringing your world crashing down! :sick:
I bought the Borrego because of what is ,in my opinion, deceptive advertising that does not clarify the Borrego's towing capacity. The Escape is a 2001 and had 133,000 miles on it. That is why I was looking to buy a new vehicle suitable for towing. The whole idea of buying the Borrego was based on it towing 5000 lbs without restrictions. I figured if it was rated to tow 5000 lbs it would tow my 3500 lbs. boat and trailer. I would be beefing up in towing capacity so I could put maybe 200,000 miles on the next suv. And, yes, if a couple of other candidate vehicles (Toyota's FJ Cruiser and H2 Hummer) had not met the same requirements, I would have bought another Ford Escape.
It's besides the point what vehicle it is. YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS TOWING 3,500 POUNDS BEHIND ANY VEHICLE WITHOUT TRAILER BRAKES. You will not, can not, stop in an emergency. You are simply putting everyone's else in danger with this practice.
You obviously have never had an emergency, panic stop - good for you. A jackknife situation would have been a certainty. The tow vehicle stops but not the boat BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BRAKES!!!!!
As a matter of fact (while not having the weight before me) I would venture to guess the Kia is actually a BETTER TOW VEHICLE WHEN PROPERLY EQUIPPED because it is heavier than the Escape.
Congrats on the trailer brakes. You should have had them all along!
Yep. It will tow it. But it won't stop it. It doesn't matter how big the brakes are on that tow vehicle, physics doesn't look at specs, it just kicks you in the butt when you least expect it, as when someone pulls out in front of you in the rain.
I just looked at the Ford Escape Website. The new 2010 Escape (V6) is rated at 3,500 pounds. So, unless you have actually taken your boat to a weight scale, your probably over with that vehicle as well. Once you load up fuel, ice chest, and occupants - it's again a very dangerous situation. As a safety margin, you only want to tow 90% of a vehicle's capacity.
But hey, now that your installing brakes, and have an SUV with a big V8, you got nothing to worry about. You should actually thank Kia. Your in a safe situation-more than you have been in for years (according to your own admission).
I would respectfully request you spend some time over at RV.net. You will learn some things about towing that may save your life!
Forget about the lawsuit and have fun in the water!
If it were unsafe to tow, every state in the union would have laws against it and every auto insurance policy would have a disclaimer about it. Which they don't. Yes, it would be safer if the boat trailer had brakes. This is also true of trailers under 1650 lbs too. Believe me, I have been in many situations where I have had to avoid other vehicles and stop suddenly while towing. In all types of weather, too. All you have to do while towing is obey safe towing practises of allowing extra space to stop and stay well below the speed limit and you can tow without problems. WITH TRAILER BRAKES OR NOT!
CHUCK1919, WHEN YOU AND YOUR INFINITE WISEDOM MUSTER ENOUGH VOTES TO MAKE TOWING VEHICLES WITHOUT BRAKES ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF OHIO, I WILL START LISTENING TO YOU. UNTIL THEN, NOT!
I just got the price to have brakes install on the trailer and it will run $994.00. I am so pissed off at Kia right now I can't see straight. Hey for that kind of money plus mental anquish and suffering, I can probably get my lawyer cousin to take the case pro bono.
Here is at least two website that says even by Ohio laws you need brakes on that trailer. Maybe you should call the Ohio Highway Patrol...they will know for sure!
If these sites are correct...you could be held liable in a court of law for towing without brakes.
Well after reading that, it looks like this argument is over. I'm not sure how credible those sites are, but, it just makes since to have brakes installed on your trailer if you are pulling that much weight. I don't remember every post I have read but maybe the KIA guy assumed that brakes would be installed on the trailer....I don't know. Keep us posted on the outcome!
When I first started towing a travel trailer, I was given excellent advice from the trailer manufacturer as well as my insurance agent. Both told me to be sure and get a GOOD brake controller, to test it EVERYTIME I got ready to tow, and to take the trailer down to a certified scale, have it weighed, and keep a copy of the certified weight statement in the glove box of the tow vehicle. Why? Because in the event of an accident, the first thing the insurance companies would go after were the tow capacity of the tow vehicle, the weight of the trailer, and the condition of the trailer brakes.
After towing the same trailer with the same tow vehicle for a couple of years, I was pulling away from a traffic light and was up to maybe 15MPH when a small car did a hard stop in front of me. I hit the brakes and plowed the guy right across the intersection. It was determined later that due to defective wiring in the trailer, two of the four brakes had lost their electrical connection. So with just two of the four brakes active in the trailer, the tow vehicle could not stop the mass of the trailer in 50 feet from 15MPH. And this was a truck rated to tow 8000lbs, and a trailer that was 6000lbs.
The laws of physics really don't care what state law says. Anyone towing a trailer of any type that weighs more than about 30% of the towing vehicle is setting themselves up for trouble. I won't sit here and argue state laws, advertising brouchures, or driving skills. The simple truth is that any towed mass behind a vehicle should have it's own self contained braking system. For what a boat/travel trailer costs, brakes are a cheap investment.
Some people think they are never going to be in an accident. As you have found out, the insurance companies investigate everything before a payout. In your case it was not a question of being neglectful, but an improperly operating system. If someone hit with out brakes being installed, I would own their house and part of their paychecks for years!
Chuck1919-It has been inspected by the Ohio Highway Patrol and the Ohio State Park Rangers and it passed. DON'T EXPECT ANYMORE RESPONSES FROM ME ON TOWING SAFETY. IT IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.
IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO DISCUSS HOW I GOT SCREWED OUT OF $994 DOLLARS BY KIA AND ITS SUPERIOR KIA OF CINCINNATI, PLEASE CHIME IN.
A little off topic but besides the towing issue what did you think about SUPERIOR KIA? We have been emailing them and were going to maybe visit this weekend (from northern KY), unless you bought the blue one!
The Ohio law states you need brakes. (According to two websites) How did it get approved by the Ohio State Patrol? Even if they made an error, it appears to be the law. Also, you said you would have bought a new Escape, which again doesn't meet the towing requirements. (See the Ford website) So, you would have needed brakes regardless of which vehicle you bought. How did you get screwed-when you have to bring either vehicle in to compliance?
It seems to me you want Kia or the dealer to pay for something you needed anyway!
Towing beyond any vehicle's manufacturer's weight ratings-or without regard to the properly-equipped limitations a vehicle's manufacturer places on the towing vehicle-relates directly to the "Law of Negligence", and places you, the driver, bearing the full weight of liability issues.
Looks like there WILL NOT be a 2010 KIA Borrego in the USA. Slow sales and a shrinking market for a "body-on-frame" SUV made it tough for KIA to sell the Borrego here in the USA. I cant think of ANY car manufacturer that only produced a "one-year-one hit-wonder vehicle". Even the YUGO and the GEO Metro (3 cylinder engine) ran for a few years.
I was at my local KIA dealer today, here in Las Vegas. They have 1 KIA Borrego in EX trim, 2WD, LOADED with every option (DVD rear ent sys, too). MSRP $36,000
They had it marked down to $24,999. I would imagine they would take $22,000 or even less for the Borrego. Seems tempting, until you remember it IS a KIA and there was only ONE model year. Ouch.
KIA sure did have bad timing. Good luck to everyone who bought one.
I live in Colorado and have a new Borrego V8. I absolutely love this car. One of the best kept secrets of the SUV world. Quiet, responsive. Better than my 4runner at much less the cost. I have two questions on saving gas: 1. Being at 5500ft elevation, is it ok to use 85 octane gas and will I get similar gas mileage/performance? 2. Will shifting into neutral while coasting down hills then back into drive at about 40 mph harm the transmission over time? Thanks in advance.
First Drive: 2009 Kia Borrego - First Impressions: A midsize blend of family-friendly convenience and old-school utility, the Borrego is better appointed than stand-bys like the Ford Explorer and Nissan Pathfinder.(more)
Took my 2009 Kai Borrego to dealer today due to vibration in steering wheel when braking. They told me there was slight warpage in the rotors due to heat????however since my car has 14,000 miles it would not be covered under warranty even though I bought the extended 100,000 bumper to bumper warranty, that the braking system is only covered in the original 12,000/12mo warranty. I do not think this is normal wear and is a deffect that Kai should cover since the brake pads are in perfect condition. They said they would contact the district manager to try and get approval for a goodwill warranty coverage and would let me know, if not the repair would be $110. Has anyone else had this problem.....I know this same problem occured in the 2008 Sorrento
I had the same problem. Front rotor warped before 12,000 miles, KIA dealer refused to cover it under warranty.
I went to the dealer on a Saturday morning, but they said they were very busy to complete all the issues I had, a reoccurring vibration at 70-80, brakes vibrating and an oil change, so I rescheduled. I missed the rescheduled date and when I did finally make it in I was over 12000 miles and the dealer refused to cover the brakes. I contacted Kia Customer Service as I also had to address the vibration between 70 -80 MPH. Kia contacted the dealer to see if a goodwill repair or exchange would be done, and arrange test drive by a regional manager. The dealer Service Manager & Regional Parts Manager test drove my vehicle. Can you believe they had the audacity to tell me that the vibration is inherent to the Borrego because the Regional Manage drives the same SUV and it has the same vibration? It so annoying, you can actually see the passenger seat vibrate. Again they refused to cover the brake repair stating nothing was wrong, even though I had a written estimate from THEM to cut the rotor. The next day I scheduled service to have the brake rotors resurfaced, and they did. How do they explain resurfacing rotors that a Region Manger claims had no brake problem. I had to pay to have the resurfaced.
I’m at 23800 miles, and they warped again. I’m going backing in the morning.
Back to the vibration at 70-80.The dealer put nitrogen in the tire and it improved, but I still feel like the front end has a vibration.
Well, I have less than 25,000 miles. The rotors have been cut twice; I am waiting as it will need to be done again as the rotors are now so much thinner. The dealer blames my driving habits, I can’t understand why; I drive the SUV in daily traffic, the way the manufacturer intended it to be driven. Imagine if I took it off road or towed a small trailer. God help me, I hope the brakes hold up.
The car has an inherent vibration and according to KIA they all do it. May be I am crazy, or KIA things I need a daily massage.
The KIA Borrego and KIA service is crap. Stay away.
I have not gotten any satisfaction from KIA as of yet. They don't even want to talk to you, their position is if it has over 12,000 miles it's out of warranty period! So much for good will public relations. They also try to blame me on my driving habits since 90% of my driving is city not highway. That is a bunch of bull.......I have been driving for over 30 years and have never had or even heard of this problem.
Borrego is now at 29000 miles. Rotors now need to be replaced $388.00. They were cut twice already. KIA service management is crap, KIA is crap, stay away from this garbage...Thank you Precision Kia of Wesley Chapel...
So I paid to get the rotors replcaed at 33,000 (KIA OEM). At 41,000 the rotor warped again. I took it to a diffrent dealer, the say to put on aftermarket slotted drilled rotors. I agree but dont want to void any warranty. KIA IS JUNK
I purchased my 2009 Borrego in April 2010. I immediately noticed vibration when braking. Especially, when going down a hill. To my satisfaction the rotors were replaced at no cost. I now have 14,500 miles and the problem has returned. The low mileage is due to the fact that the car is rarely driven, stored indoors and mostly used for short trips around town. Yesterday, I brought the car in for service and was advised by the service manager that the rotors needed to be milled. I feel that there is an inherent problem with the braking system and that Kia should admit this and rectify it by ordering a recall and having an upgraded rotor system installed.
Comments
If you are getting an EX Borrego for the price of an LX being around $25K then you were out of your mind to leave that deal.
You have to pay extra, and by that, a hefty sum for the "goodies."
I am keeping an eye on this one. If prices tank on used models in a few years I may bite. For the current owners I hope they don't depreciate to rapidly, but if they do....
There is no way I would tow a trailer and my family without having brakes on the trailer and a brake controller in the tow vehicle.
What price is your family's safety worth?
There is no way you can justify a cost of a lawsuit. It would be cheaper to put brakes on your trailer.....and safer too!
I am not familiar with the Prodigy brake controller but if it requires brakes on the trailer, remember there aren't any. I will run a google search to check it out. If it is cheaper than trailer brakes and works, I am interested in it. I have the boat/trailer in the shop and plan to have surge brakes installed. I proposed buying the brake system materials and ask the dealer to provide the labor to install it and was told they would "get back to me as soon as possible". That was three days ago. No calls. If they had accepted my offer, I would not have made this posting. Having it done at the boat shop will run somewhere between $400 and $900.
One other point I would like to make. I beleive I was deceived by the Kia literature and the lack of detailed knowledge about the towing capacity of the Borrego by the sales personnel into buying a vehicle that I told them right up front had to be able to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. Deceptive advertising is illegal in Ohio. It won't tow my boat and trailer therefore they owe it to me to make it right. There are not asterriks or qualifications to the statement that the Borrego will tow 5000 lbs. Even review forums like Edmond don't have anything on this issue. Believe me, it is no small matter to find out you have to put out even more money after you just spent $28 grand on a new car. I will recover the cost of adding the brakes to the trailer one way or another.
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm
As I said...there is no way i would tow a trailer WITH MY FAMILY IN THE TOW VEHICLE without trailer brakes. REGARDLESS of the tow vehicle. It's asking for a disaster!
And I think chuck1919's point simply is that it's dangerous to be towing a trailer that heavy without brakes on it. Were you to have an emergency braking situation, you will immediately have an out of control trailer flailing about behind you, endangering you and your family and other drivers and families around you. Not only that, but your brake system would not only have to deal with the hulking 5,000+ pounds of the Borrego itself but also the additional 3,500 pounds of trailer. That's 8,500+ pounds of mass and momentum to bring to a stop in a hurry, and the stock brake components may simply not be up to that task. They may only be rated up to 7,000 pounds. Do some research on your pads, disks, and brake fluid. Find out what the max ratings are for each and then go on the minimum number. I'm willing to bet the weak link is in the pads. "Good" brake pads are noisy, dusty, and coarse sounding. When dealing with NVH, compromises had to be made. I bet the pads for this vehicle were chosen for comfort and cleanliness, not performance.
Get some better pads and your trade off will be perpetually dirty wheels and brake noise. Get better brake fluid and it may result in a firmer brake pedal. It will solve your particular towing problem, but then I bet you'll be back complaining about that then. :sick: One caveat; heavy duty brake fluid may have an adverse affect on your ABS system.
You can try to trash Kia all you want, but that's not my concern. What I am stating is fact.
I be saying the same thing if you were trying to tow with a 1/4 ton pick up under the same circumstances.
So get brakes on your boats trailer, and have a fun with your family. They will be much safer when your tow vehicle (whatever it is) is PROPERLY EQUIPPED!!
The facts are that Kia's sales literature states that the V6 Borrego will tow 5000 lbs. and there is no listed qualifications or asterisked foot note stating that the trailer had to have brakes . I told the saleman it had to be able to tow my 3500 lb boat and trailer. This was one of two requirements that I had. The other being 4WD. I would not have bought the suv if I had been told or seen any literature stating that the trailer had to have brakes. I was deceived by the literature and the sales personnel into buying an suv that according to there sales literature should tow 5000 lbs with or without trailer brakes. The true towing capacity is concealed in the owners manual which you don't see until you have purchased the car. I still haven't heard anything back from the dealer. Deceptive advertising is still against the law in Ohio so the dealer will soon be getting a letter from Ohio's Attorney Generals office. Oh by the way, if it is "too much about nothing" then send me the $900 it will cost me to have brakes put on the boat trailer. Please, no more replies from Kia sales people.
Horst
You have a brand new SUV and a boat worth how much? You should have trailer brakes regardless of what the literature says or doesn't say.
If I were not concerned about the safety of the occupants of the vehicle, I would not have it in the shop to have brakes installed. I hope it doesn't keep you up at night, but I have towed that boat and trailer all over the USA, including California, without trailer brakes. It has been inspected by California weight stations and passed. Makes me wonder if a legally register and licensed vehicle in one state has to be accepted by all states sort of like a marriages.
Then why'd you buy a new Borrego in the first place? Why didn't you get a cheaper tow vehicle? Another Escape perhaps could have suited you since you seem to be pleased with its towing capability. And, no, I'm not a Kia salesman or any other kind of salesman for that matter. I was simply trying to offer some advice to help you sleep at night since Kia's not wanting you to tow an improperly equipped trailer is clearly bringing your world crashing down! :sick:
You obviously have never had an emergency, panic stop - good for you. A jackknife situation would have been a certainty. The tow vehicle stops but not the boat BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BRAKES!!!!!
As a matter of fact (while not having the weight before me) I would venture to guess the Kia is actually a BETTER TOW VEHICLE WHEN PROPERLY EQUIPPED because it is heavier than the Escape.
Congrats on the trailer brakes. You should have had them all along!
But hey, now that your installing brakes, and have an SUV with a big V8, you got nothing to worry about. You should actually thank Kia. Your in a safe situation-more than you have been in for years (according to your own admission).
I would respectfully request you spend some time over at RV.net. You will learn some things about towing that may save your life!
Forget about the lawsuit and have fun in the water!
CHUCK1919, WHEN YOU AND YOUR INFINITE WISEDOM MUSTER ENOUGH VOTES TO MAKE TOWING VEHICLES WITHOUT BRAKES ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF OHIO, I WILL START LISTENING TO YOU. UNTIL THEN, NOT!
http://www.rockettrailers.com/TrailerBrakeLaws.htm
http://www.campinglife.com/output.cfm?id=1047259
Here is at least two website that says even by Ohio laws you need brakes on that trailer. Maybe you should call the Ohio Highway Patrol...they will know for sure!
If these sites are correct...you could be held liable in a court of law for towing without brakes.
After towing the same trailer with the same tow vehicle for a couple of years, I was pulling away from a traffic light and was up to maybe 15MPH when a small car did a hard stop in front of me. I hit the brakes and plowed the guy right across the intersection. It was determined later that due to defective wiring in the trailer, two of the four brakes had lost their electrical connection. So with just two of the four brakes active in the trailer, the tow vehicle could not stop the mass of the trailer in 50 feet from 15MPH. And this was a truck rated to tow 8000lbs, and a trailer that was 6000lbs.
The laws of physics really don't care what state law says. Anyone towing a trailer of any type that weighs more than about 30% of the towing vehicle is setting themselves up for trouble. I won't sit here and argue state laws, advertising brouchures, or driving skills. The simple truth is that any towed mass behind a vehicle should have it's own self contained braking system. For what a boat/travel trailer costs, brakes are a cheap investment.
IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO DISCUSS HOW I GOT SCREWED OUT OF $994 DOLLARS BY KIA AND ITS SUPERIOR KIA OF CINCINNATI, PLEASE CHIME IN.
It seems to me you want Kia or the dealer to pay for something you needed anyway!
Talks about the real capacities of tow vehicles.
Towing beyond any vehicle's manufacturer's weight ratings-or without regard to the properly-equipped limitations a vehicle's manufacturer places on the towing vehicle-relates directly to the "Law of Negligence", and places you, the driver, bearing the full weight of liability issues.
I was at my local KIA dealer today, here in Las Vegas. They have 1 KIA Borrego in EX trim, 2WD, LOADED with every option (DVD rear ent sys, too). MSRP $36,000
They had it marked down to $24,999. I would imagine they would take $22,000 or even less for the Borrego. Seems tempting, until you remember it IS a KIA and there was only ONE model year. Ouch.
KIA sure did have bad timing. Good luck to everyone who bought one.
Let me help you out; 2009 Pontiac G8.
I have two questions on saving gas: 1. Being at 5500ft elevation, is it ok to use 85 octane gas and will I get similar gas mileage/performance? 2. Will shifting into neutral while coasting down hills then back into drive at about 40 mph harm the transmission over time?
Thanks in advance.
I went to the dealer on a Saturday morning, but they said they were very busy to complete all the issues I had, a reoccurring vibration at 70-80, brakes vibrating and an oil change, so I rescheduled. I missed the rescheduled date and when I did finally make it in I was over 12000 miles and the dealer refused to cover the brakes. I contacted Kia Customer Service as I also had to address the vibration between 70 -80 MPH. Kia contacted the dealer to see if a goodwill repair or exchange would be done, and arrange test drive by a regional manager. The dealer Service Manager & Regional Parts Manager test drove my vehicle. Can you believe they had the audacity to tell me that the vibration is inherent to the Borrego because the Regional Manage drives the same SUV and it has the same vibration? It so annoying, you can actually see the passenger seat vibrate. Again they refused to cover the brake repair stating nothing was wrong, even though I had a written estimate from THEM to cut the rotor. The next day I scheduled service to have the brake rotors resurfaced, and they did. How do they explain resurfacing rotors that a Region Manger claims had no brake problem. I had to pay to have the resurfaced.
I’m at 23800 miles, and they warped again. I’m going backing in the morning.
Back to the vibration at 70-80.The dealer put nitrogen in the tire and it improved, but I still feel like the front end has a vibration.
The car has an inherent vibration and according to KIA they all do it. May be I am crazy, or KIA things I need a daily massage.
The KIA Borrego and KIA service is crap. Stay away.