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New Honda Insight 5-passenger Hatchback

larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
Let's talk about the new Insight, coming in April 2009 to the USA.

Will it give the Prius a run for it's money?

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080904/FREE/809049997/1065

The Honda Insight is back, this time with room for three more passengers.

Honda has revived the model name for the long-awaited dedicated hybrid vehicle tasked with taking on the Toyota Prius. And like its rival, it will be a five-door, five-passenger hatchback.

A concept version of the new Insight will debut at the Paris motor show in October, the company said on Thursday. The car is expected to hit U.S. showrooms next April.

The name is a carryover from Honda’s first crack at the hybrid segment. The first generation Insight was billed as the first mass-produced hybrid vehicle sold in the United States.

But the first generation had just two seats and sold only 17,001 units from its launch in 1999 to 2006, when production ended. It was easily eclipsed by Toyota’s Prius, which has sold more than 1 million since 1997 and remains the world’s best selling hybrid vehicle.

“The name Insight was chosen to denote Honda's ‘insight’ into a new era in which hybrid vehicles come within reach of most car buyers,” Honda Motor Co. said in its release.

Honda has bigger ambitions for the second generation Insight. It is eyeing annual sales of 200,000 vehicles worldwide, with about half being sold in North America.
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Comments

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    More info on the new Insight

    Honda has just released the first official photos of its eagerly-anticipated new dedicated hybrid car that will debut early in 2009. The car that until now had been referred to by Honda officials simply as the "Global Hybrid" will revive the popular Insight name from the company's first hybrid model. Although Honda is officially calling the car that will be shown in Paris next month a concept, these concepts tend to be extremely close to the final production version. Given the similarity to the spy photos we've seen already we shouldn't expect much to change before launch next year. The Insight does bear a strong resemblance to the larger FCX Clarity fuel cell car although as with most hybrids, the current Honda three bar grill design is actually a solid piece for optimized aerodynamics. Honda has already said that it has cut the cost of its IMA hybrid system in half for the Insight and the new Insight's price is expected to start in the neighborhood of $18,500. Honda is expecting about 200,000 world wide sales of the Insight with half of those going to the U.S
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    That thing looks like a current gen Prius!!

    I am not a big proponent of the IMA, because the engine has to run to propel the vehicle. I think Honda should come up with a dual mode hybrid. Plus, I think their CVT still used an actual belt, which is not as reliable (IMHO) as the Ford and Toyota eCVT planetary gear systems.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm pretty sure you cannot patent the "shape" of a vehicle. If you could, then no two vehicles could be remotely similar because the carmakers would be constantly suing each other.

    It would be nice for Honda to have an "electric only" mode somewhere in their line.

    Maybe they are saving that for a plug-in hybrid later?
  • aveo5aveo5 Member Posts: 8
    this is great, move over Toyota you've got company ...
  • focusjcfocusjc Member Posts: 10
    Just saw the new pictures of Honda Insight in Paris Auto show and I am excited. I am always a Honda fan and thinking how appropriate to name it after the Honda's first, innovative, but seems mostly enjoyed only by their die-hard loving owners, hybrid. I almost bought the Prius last year but decided to wait for the next generation thinking it would be a plug-in. I agree that with IMA, it is not possible to modify your Insight to a plug-in, like some people did to their Prius. But modification is not for me and since even Prius could not come up the plug-in version yet, the bottom line of MPG is most important for me to chose a car, at least for now. I still like to see the 2010 Prius when it comes out next January(?), but the $18,500 price of Insight sounds very attractive.

    A foot note about the dealer's mark-up: With its MSRP at $18,500 and expected high demand, I guess most of dealers will mark up the price of Insight for maybe $3000 or more, just like they did(and still doing) to Prius. We as consumer should have the solidarity to refuse to pay the mark up and walk away, be it Prius or Insight.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    For certain the new Insight is going to see a lot of ADM stickers attached to it's MSRP sticker. Honda has a winner with the Fit so up go the prices as they do with any good economy vehicle right now.
    The sad fact is even VW is charging big $$$ over sticker for their new diesels even worse if it's the wagon.
    I think Honda has a real winner with this new Insight but they need to stop dealers from price gouging. Unfortunately that's an impossible task.
    So the new Insight will sell over MSRP as long as they can get it.
    That's why I'm looking at other options.
  • striebystrieby Member Posts: 2
    If gas continues it trend downward up through April 2010 then I doubt there will be any price gouging by dealers on the Insight or the Prius. The panic buying will be over and since they are both going to hit the market at the same time (early April) there will be plenty of them available. With the credit crunch on there will still be many folks who will not be able to get loans to buy one. I curretly have a 2008 Prius and I am first in line at my local Honda dealer to have the option to purchase an Insight for my Wife.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    If gas continues it trend downward up through April 2010 then I doubt there will be any price gouging by dealers on the Insight or the Prius. The panic buying will be over and since they are both going to hit the market at the same time (early April) there will be plenty of them available. With the credit crunch on there will still be many folks who will not be able to get loans to buy one. I currently have a 2008 Prius and I am first in line at my local Honda dealer to have the option to purchase an Insight for my Wife.

    You could be right, but for now the dealers still can't get a Prius here at all. They just don't even bother to return phone calls unless you chase them down.
    I'm wavering on the fact that it's good to get a Prius. I wasn't impressed before and now with gas dropping it's less of an issue for me now. The high prices along with no discounts and super limited availability mean I'm looking elsewhere. Trading in/Selling my 2008 Honda Civic Si and getting anywhere near it's value is all but impossible.
    If my wife didn't have an issue with driving a manual we wouldn't have this problem.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    Hi,
    Traded in my Honda Element (loved it) for a 2009 Honda Fit Sport and am really enjoying the Fit. I am #1 on a list for the 2010 Honda Insight at 2 dealers here in NC. I expect long waiting lists for April 2009 but, as someone mentioned, if gas prices keep sinking, that will affect the demand.
    Don
    p.s. I'm even more interested in the upcoming CR-Z hybrid.
  • striebystrieby Member Posts: 2
    It is already starting to happen in my area. Gas prices are way down and my Toyota dealer has 5 2009 Prius's on his lot. Let's hope gas stays low until April of next year. If so you should be able to make a deal on the 2010 Insight.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Better? What do you think?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Better.......YES....!

    Much.
  • rexfrexf Member Posts: 20
    To see more details about this vehicle. Does anyone have any inside information or additional pictures?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,193
    The problem is that people who are in a position to have "inside info" are generally people who would be fired if they revealed that inside info. Spy shots are a different matter entirely, but the vehicle would pretty much have to be in production for that to happen.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • scottlscottl Member Posts: 109
    Has anyone actually put their name on a waiting list for a new Insight? I'm going to call a few Denver dealers today to see if any of them will agree to sell me a car at MSRP when it arrives. Knowing the Denver market, I suspect I'll be laughed at.

    Does anyone in any part of the country have such a guarantee? I'm willing to travel if it means saving thousands.

    Any suggestion on the best Denver area Honda dealer?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Rather than calling the dealer I would suggest getting quotes from several dealers via the internet.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    With the economy down, I don't think MSRP plus type pricing will stick around long on the Insight; plus, it's designed to be a volume car.

    If your local dealers aren't willing to sell at MSRP, or even below MSRP, I'd look into traveling a bit to get a better deal.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Honda Insight Tops 60 MPG in Test Drive

    image

    High 50s or 60+ = Awesome !!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Point Missed = Oops Gary Did It Again

    Lowest cost high-mileage hybrid available, at $22.5K LOADED, but only $18K very well-equipped.

    And as far as mileage: Well, it hit 51.5 in the Edmunds Test Drive, so my guess is that it will be in the "real-world" about neck and neck with the Prius and the HCH.

    And at about $5K cheaper than the Prius when comparably equipped at the high end.

    Will allow more people to try the hybrid experience.

    Hasn't that been one of your gripes from Day One, Gary? Hybrids too expensive for Joe Public?

    Now you can get a gas engine car for about $10K less than a Jetta TDI which will give it a run for it's money in highway mileage and trash it for sure in the city.

    No other hybrid or non-hybrid can say THAT.

    Can it?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If it is a race to see who can build the ugliest cars, Toyota and Honda are neck and neck. C'mon you got more class than to give this joke a thumbs up. It did not even beat the bigger Civic on the EPA mileage test. You know what a stickler you are for the accuracy of the EPA tests. There are people getting consistent 50 MPG with the new Jetta TDI though it is rated for only 34 MPG by the EPA. But that is your bible. I guess until they rate a hybrid lower than you want.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    This vehicle is to be the LOWEST COST HYBRID on the market. Not the most efficient, most luxurious, nor the most advanced, not the most high mileage.

    They were smart enough to NOT create an almost unusable and impractical ( however super-efficient ) experiment like they did with the first Insight, which because of it's oddity sold low volumes to only the most eco-conscious.

    They are going for a larger sales base and a more usable vehicle in the hopes of actually getting some market share.

    I think it's a great idea. A hybrid that even lower-middle-class Joe Public can afford.

    BRILLIANT !!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The EPA is not MY bible. It's good for what it does, which is produce a lab-repeatable result.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Is the Insight any better of a deal than a similarly-equipped Fit?

    Insight LX at $18,500ish vs. Fit base automatic at around $16,500?

    Insight EX at $20,000 ish vs. a Fit Sport automatic at around $18,000?
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    I don't have the answer but as a 2009 Fit Sport w/Navi owner and my name #1 on the Honda Insight EX list, I can offer one opinion. I really like my Fit and will probably keep it even if I get the 2010 Insight. You have to get Navi with the Fit Sport in order to get Vehicle Stability Control. However, the EX Insight comes with VSC so you don't have to spend the extra $$ to get the Navi if you do not want it. I would also think the Insight will get better mileage than the Fit. I'm getting 34 m.p.g. with my Fit Sport auto but I live in the mountains of western NC and never drive on a major (i.e. 4 lane) highway. In my humble opinion the Fit is a very cool car, the Insight will be even more so. Hope this helps. I was told tonight by a Honda dealer that the 2010 Insight EX w/o Navi will sell for between $22,200 and $22,400 with no dealer markup. The LX for around $20,400.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    I was told tonight by a Honda dealer that the 2010 Insight EX w/o Navi will sell for between $22,200 and $22,400 with no dealer markup. The LX for around $20,400.

    Those prices are about $2K HIGHER than what has been discussed elsewhere. The "No Dealer Mark-up" line is crap. A load EX w/Navi is supposed to be $23K. An LX should be $19K.

    Make sure you shop around.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    I was given incorrect info on MSRP for the 2010 Insight. The person who shared the prices I posted couldn't possibly have them as Honda hasn't released them yet and may not (if the Insight release is like other Honda vehicles) until the vehicles actually arrive in dealerships late April or May. Sorry, thought I had a "scoop" for you all but it turned out to be "crap" as dodgeman07 so eloquently put it.
    ;)
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think the dealer you spoke with is going to "front-load" all the cars with a bunch of accessories to bump up the price of the LX model to $20,000 and the EX to $22,000.

    At those prices, Honda loses the price advantage it has over a Prius, IMO.

    All reports I've seen say that Honda is going to price the LX model around $18,500 and the EX model right around $20,000, with the EX-NAVI at $22,000.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    ...but I remember the days of Honda's "Adjusted Market Value" pricing when many dealers tacked $500 to $1,500 on top of the MSRP for no reason other than they could get it.

    Thankfully those days are gone but I'm sure some dealers will have $20K prices on $18.5K Insight LX's because they added pinstripes and fabric protection.

    The Insight has great potential for Honda to grab some market share in a very down 2009 market. If they keep the price where it's been rumored to be, they can do it.

    I'll leave the eloquence to our Chief Justice at the swearing in ceremonies. :P

    Faithfully Yours, (or is it "Yours Faithfully"?)
    dodgeman07
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I will agree that Honda dealers are notorious for "Adjusted Market Value"
    Although, on a side note, I did see a Kia dealer one time slap "Adjusted Market Value" on every model they had on display at a local mall.

    I think Honda dealers will quickly find out though that if they front load a $18,500 Insight LX up to $20,000, they'll begin losing a lot of buyers to Accords, Camrys, and Altimas at that price point.

    Either that, or consumers will try to get a deal on the last of the '09 Priuses...
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    In case you hadn't seen these already.

    On MSNBC.com
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28676262/

    and on Motor Week to air this Friday morning (1/30/09) on Speed Channel
    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2821a.shtml

    Enjoy,
    Don
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    The March '09 issue of Car and Driver magazine has a very good review of the 2010 Insight.

    One of the items that caught my eye was the 68dB interior sound level ay 70mph cruising. That is a commendably low number for what thus far has been called an "econobox". Quietness conveys a luxary impression and C&D noted that this is a quiet car at speed.
  • rookie60rookie60 Member Posts: 39
    How can everyone comment on the car when no one owns one yet? Karen: I have read a thousand blogs. A lot are good and a lot are stupid. I have an Insight on order already. I will get one of the first ones in my area. I will get the real cost and the real gas mileage as soon as almost anyone. Then we can talk realistically about the car. Remember, the car is what it is. It is not a fast, great cornering, chic magnet. It is an economy car. Asking for ridiculous options probably is not going o happen. It is a car for the future. It is what most people will be driving in 5-6 years. The fuel and co2 mandates are coming. Gas will go up "drastically" again.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    But, if you read Karen's post I think you'll see that she's asking what research each of us have done on the 2010 Honda Insight. As in, " If you are in the process of researching a new or future Honda Insight". Since many people use Edmunds for the purpose of reseach they probably want to know if Edmunds was used and what other sites were also looked at. She's talking "foreplay", you're thinking "consumated".
    :)
  • 204meca204meca Member Posts: 369
    Is the Insight any better of a deal than a similarly-equipped Fit?

    Insight LX at $18,500ish vs. Fit base automatic at around $16,500?

    Insight EX at $20,000 ish vs. a Fit Sport automatic at around $18,000?

    My questions exactly! :D I can't wait to hear what dweiser & others who have had both will say after they have had their Insight for month or two. I will be reading this site a lot after the Insight are released!
  • rookie60rookie60 Member Posts: 39
    $2,000 is not the only reason to choose a car. Hopefully, the Insight will ride better with the longer wheelbase. It will take years to catch $2,000 with gas mileage. Unless you are really hooked into lessening our dependence on foreign oil and gas mileage is more important. However, you have like looks of any car more than another. That is the key.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    At 15,000 miles a year and 30 mpg average for the Fit and 40 for the Insight (both pretty conservative I think), it will take about 8 years to make up the $2000 difference when gas is $2 a gallon. But if gas goes back to $4 a gallon, as it was not long ago, then it's just 4 years to recoup the difference. I have a feeling Honda is betting gas won't stay at $2 a gallon for very long. I would take that bet also.
  • rookie60rookie60 Member Posts: 39
    I have a friend who has a Honda Fit. He is Mr. gas mileage. He is the most conservative driver around. He said he gets 31 mpg for combined (mostly city) driving. I have heard 49-52 for the Insight but that is only speculation at this point. I will know more in May. It doesn't take a genius to know that when China and other countries wanting more oil, OPEC producing less and the U.S. co2 laws, it won't take more than a year for gas to be knocking on $4 again.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    Dealer (South Carolina) emailed me today (2/9) that they will have three 2010 Insights in late March. Colors are white, silver, and the light blue (don't know its name).
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    ...it won't take more than a year for gas to be knocking on $4 again.

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////- //////////////////////////////////////

    Crazy as it may sound, I hope right but I think you're wrong. The price of oil is tied closely to the health of the world's economies. Barring a major catastrophic event bringing the price of oil up quickly, we're well over a year away from a healthy economy, and high oil prices.

    Here in the Midwest regular gasoline topped out at $4/gallon last July. It was as low as $1.50/gallon around the 1st of the year and is now about $1.80, due more to local gouging than higher oil prices.

    $3/gallon should be our mid-summer peak in 2009 - probably lower. $4/gallon gasoline will be back, but the summer of 2010 is the earliest it will happen. That's why we need a $1/gallon gas tax to help fund "infrastructure stimulus", at least while prices are low.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..$1/gallon gas tax..."

    Good start but what our government really needs to do is set a target for future gas prices and make it so by imposing taxes incrementally, $10.00 gallon in 2020.

    And use the income wisely, say rapid transit systems.
  • rookie60rookie60 Member Posts: 39
    I posted that $4 per gallon gas is coming. Obviously I don't have a crystal ball as to when. The gas tax will come. CO2 emissions will dictate better mileage. China and other emerging countries will demand more gas, thus causing prices to rise. Toward the end of 2009 the economy should start to pick up. All of these things will cause gas prices to rise. $4 is coming. I can't say exactly when. $3 this summer?? Maybe. The Honda Insight looks like a good bet.
  • lucien4lucien4 Member Posts: 68
    Don't forget that several states have sales tax exemption for Hybrids and that can save you a good amount of money compared to the Fit.

    Given the rise in the Yen I think it's unlikely Honda can keep the price at $18K. I do think $20K is more likely for base model. I wouldn't pay markup either. If demand is very high though it may be difficult to get one at MSRP in the beginning.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    The Honda dealer where I bought my 2009 Fit Sport called yesterday (2/25 dinnertime - don't you love calls at dinnertime) to say the manager was adding a $1,000 "market adjustment" to all Insights. I told him to tell the manager I was no longer interested in an Insight from them but to let me know if he recanted. Tonight, also during dinner, they called back to say the manager had made "an exception" for me since I was a former customer. I'm surprised they're playing these games; new cars aren't selling as it is.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    The free market in action. Sort of like an auction. Who will give me MSRP+$1000? If you don't bite, someone else may.

    But yes, it IS an odd time to be playing the game the same way they did in boom times.
  • moondog6moondog6 Member Posts: 3
    I ordered an Insight and knew more than the dealership about the "new" model. My salesman, from whom I bought my Civic Hybrid in 2006, says I am the first to order one from big Berlin City Honda in NH. He said it should arrive in May, perhaps late April, and my request for a dark red EX with Navi evoked more questions than answers. He thinks it may be the color of the Accord, tango red, and pricing is still unknown. He has no fliers or information for customers yet. I hope he doesn't try to up the price, and may give me a better deal as a third-time buyer. The Insight may mean a loss of mpg over my Civic, but up here on NY state's northernmost border, the long unforgiving winter drags mpg into the mid-30's. The Insight will be a techie upgrade, but I hope it doesn't disappoint with a cheap ride compared to my relatively luxury-sized Civic.

    My daughter in NC is eager to buy our Civic, and the 7yr/120K warranty will pass to her with it.

    I was surprised that the SC dealer is expecting Insights in March, whereas the Honda dealer in Albemarle, NC told me they wouldn't get them until at least September.
  • rookie60rookie60 Member Posts: 39
    Seems like some dealers should get with the program. If they are going to sell these cars, they should be aware of what is coming. As for the colors:
    Here are the exterior colors Honda lists for the North American Insights:

    Clear Sky Blue (new and exclusive to the Insight)
    Spectrum While Pearl (also a Civic hybrid color)
    Alabaster Silver Metallic (also an Accord and Civic color)
    Polished Metal Metallic (also an Accord and Civic color)
    Crystal Black Pearl (also an Accord, Civic, and Fit color)
    Atomic Blue Metallic (also a Civic and Element color)
    Tango Red Pearl (also a Civic color)

    The Clear Sky Blue is a very light/bright blue.

    I expect the LX to be $19,995 and the EX to be $21,995.
  • lucien4lucien4 Member Posts: 68
    Here's collection of Insight info including color combinations and specs (scroll all the way down to see all colors):

    http://lucienk.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!A4AE3FB12A26635!952.entry

    Also see here Insight pictures with color red:

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/abg-first-drive-2010-honda-insight/

    and
    http://www.netcarshow.com/honda/2010-insight/

    image

    I believe dealers will get the Insights end of March but first customer deliveries may take several months.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    Rookie60 has done his homework, his list of colors is spot on.
    Rookie, where did you get your US prices if I may ask?
    I assume the $21,995 for the EX is w/o Navi?
    Also, to add something new (and maybe even true??), I was told Honda originally would not sell the Insight until the roll-out date of Earth Day, 4/22 BUT that they have changed their mind and dealers may sell them as soon as they arrive which could be late March thru April and early May. I believe this change, if true, can be attributed to the economy and the need for dealers (and Honda) to sell some vehicles as soon as possible.
  • moondog6moondog6 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the excellent information and pictures.

    I will be calling the dealer about the ETA and the rollout date this week. I would be surprised if they brought up a "market adjustment" markup, knowing it might kill the deal. His sales were off 50% this past month, but of course they're expecting a big bump in sales in another few weeks.

    ha ha.
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