Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

286

Hi benrey23, thank you for your reply! Can you elaborate what you said about the BMW dealer buying the car from the lessee before the lease expires. How does that work? Do the dealer and lessee negotiate a price and then the dealer writes a check to the lessee?

im_brentwood

Correct.

BMW Dealers have to pay "Market Value" for their lease returns and they are required to buy a huge percentage of them, it's called the "Full Circle" program, and BMW dealers hate it.

hambonecampana

I'm looking to purchase an inexpensive, older convertible (ideally a 2 seater) that I can keep for years to come as a second car. I'd like it to be reliable, fun to drive, won't plummet in value, and a car that, if something breaks, there's information out there to teach me how to fix it. I'm pretty young, and I don't know a whole lot about cars (although I am pretty handy), but if I learn on the way that's great. I don't want it to start out as a project car, but if over the years it gives me some projects, I'm okay with that. I'm thinking about an older BMW Z3. According to edmunds prices a 96 would should come in at about 4-5k. I'd also consider the Honda S2000, although the entry price seems to be about double what I could get a Z3 for (although it would be a newer car). I thought about the MR2 Spyder but heard that it has an unpleasant exhaust note, the Audi TT, but given Audi's reliability that thought concerns me, and the Miata really doesn't do anything for me visually. Are there any other cars I should seriously consider? Would appreciate thoughts from some that have gone before me. Thanks all!

qbrozen

You received the same answer in the 2 other threads you asked in. Z3 6-cyl.

croatbag

Signed a Purchase Order for Motor Vehicle for a lease of a car and was wondering what my obligation here is. It basically is a paper that just has the car information and what we agreed to as a monthly payment, mileage, term, and due at signing. The rest of the document was not filled out. I have not filled out any actual lease paperwork yet or any further documentation as the dealer is waiting to hear back from me about if I will take the offer for my trade in. I'm wondering if in the meantime some of the other dealers I spoke to got back to me with a better price am I obligated at all to complete the entire purchase now? I'm assuming I would probably lose my $500 deposit, but I want to make sure that would be the worst case if something came up and I did this. Any thoughts?

1 loophole I seem to have legally is that it says on the bottom This Order Is Not Binding Until Signed And Accepted By The Retailer, but he never countersigned before he gave me the receipt. Anyway just trying to figure out how much this sheet matter when none of the financing/leasing/insurance paperwork has been filled out yet . Thanks in advance for any answers.

qbrozen

You didn't take delivery, so no. And, no, you shouldn't lose your deposit, either.

But are the deals being offered by others THAT good that you considered dumping your deposit? Have those other places given you a trade value for your vehicle?

In any case, if you do find a better deal, you should give the first dealer a chance to match it.

verdugo

We talk about dealers behaving badly, but consumers are just as bad as we have seen with croatbag.

If you got to the point of starting to sign documents, go through with it. Or don't fill them out. Don't waste the dealer's time.

qbrozen

Yes, some consumers can be just as shady as some dealers. Unfortunately, it is human nature.

croatbag

Ha, I knew I was going to catch some heat for that. Plenty of dealers have wasted my time before telling me they have so in so in stock or available only for me to come for now reason. It's not like I would go out of my way to waste time, something hasn't even come up, I just meant if it does. I'm not suite sure how trying to get the best price for yourself is shady, blame the way that the whole industry is set up. I would love nothing more than to come into the store and see the price and that is the price and thats all, trust me it would be so much easier. Imagine going through all these game to buy a pair of pants or a shirt. Unfortunately when I quote out 5 dealers and i get a $250/month spread between highest and lowest it doesn't instill confidence in me. So don't blame me for the broken system.

qbrozen

If you are seeing a $250 spread, someone is lying to you. There is no way it can be that much on the same vehicle for the same terms.

By the way, I do go through that much trouble for just about every purchase. I just shopped online today at about 6 different places trying to track down the best deal for $50 worth of model railroad track for under the xmas tree.

ken117

Sorry, but working with a dealer, like croatbag, is not wasting a dealer's time. That is a simplistic view of the car buying/selling process.

In order to sell, a dealer must spend time with customers. Sometimes the time spent results in a sale and sometimes it does not. Any dealer who fails to recognize this will not be in business long.

I have purchased vehilces for a long time. One or twice I reached a point of signing the papers and decided to walk because the dealers pulled something. Whose time was wasted?

verdugo

Sorry, but working with a dealer, like croatbag, is not wasting a dealer's time. That is a simplistic view of the car buying/selling process.

I'm all for shopping aorund. And you should totally do that. Try email, visits to dealers, costco program, etc.

My point is that you shouldn't start the process of singing documents if you're still shopping around.

qbrozen

One or twice I reached a point of signing the papers and decided to walk because the dealers pulled something. Whose time was wasted?

totally different situation than what was posted above.

fushigi

Imagine going through all these game to buy a pair of pants or a shirt.

Actually, you can negotiate the price of clothing, appliances, and other consumer goods. It's common knowledge that many products go on sale once every so many weeks (usually somewhere between 6 & 12 weeks). So sale prices are established, they just aren't officially in play all then time.

If the product you want isn't currently on sale, ask a sales person to give you the sale price anyway. It will likely take a manager's approval but you will oftentimes get a discount close or equal to whatever the sales price is even though the item isn't currently officially discounted.

For appliances, if they can't/won't give you a sales price, you can usually still negotiate free delivery or some other perk to help seal the deal. A sale with reduced profit is still a sale (and one less potential sale to the competition).

(The general lack of floor sales people makes this difficult at discounters like Walmart, but asking for a sale price is easy enough at JCP, Macy's, Best Buy, etc.)

boomchek

I would love nothing more than to come into the store and see the price and that is the price and thats all, trust me it would be so much easier

You can and it's called MSRP. The MSRP is same at all the dealers.

But, if you want a different deal, then yeah you'll have to do some legwork. Nobody is going to give away the farm if they don't have to. And shop price, not payments, it's easier to compare. Good luck.

croatbag

All I signed was something that said this is a deal we agreed to. I didn't go any further in the process. Why would I leave without a paper saying this is the offer. If I didn't get it in writing it could very well be different later. I didn't start doing all the insurance and other stuff. If filling out 1 page is too much then I don't know what to say, I need to protect myself as well. If I come back in a few days with nothing I could get a oh that deal was only good for that day type of story.

boomchek

So how much better is the deal youi're getting elsewhere?

croatbag

Again, I signed 1 paper that stated the price and offer, we did not sign leasing papers or anything else. It was a 1 page form. I also need to protect myself and have documentation of an agreed price, it could very well be different if I come back in a few days.

croatbag

@Boomcheck,

I never said that I had received something better elsewhere. I was just asking since I had been talking to multiple dealers that if someone came back with something better what would my liability/obligation be. I am actually taking delivery tomorrow from the dealer in question.

croatbag

@gbrozen,

you find it surprising that out of 5 dealers 1 may be lying or padding heavily? That's the whole point of my story.

robr2

From your original post:

Signed a Purchase Order for Motor Vehicle for a lease of a car and was wondering what my obligation here is.

Key words are purchase order.

People are getting on your case because you said you signed a purchase order and were now wondering what your obligation was. When you sign a purchase order, you have basically committed to the deal.

If you stated it was an offer sheet, well then's its a different ball game.

qbrozen

But I don't think the one you have dealt with is the one lying. I could be wrong ... but I doubt it. I think the lowball offer(s) you are getting are false. Reason being, when talking about a lease, dealer's are limited as to how much they can mark up a money factor. Fees are set in stone. And residual is set in stone. So the only area to make up the majority of that $250/mo difference is the sale price of the vehicle. On a lease, that's about an $8k swing to get $250/mo. I have a hard time believing dealer one is charging you $8k more than dealer 2 for the same exact car. My guess is whoever emailed you an offer $250 less is playing some sort of game.

This, of course, is if I'm understanding you correctly.

croatbag

It's actually the guys that were high that are playing a game, and yes sometimes you get low ballers that can't hit the price as well. You are assuming that everyone is quoting you the same thing. I have dealers quote me for the 27 month lease when the 24 month lease term is better, I have dealers markup the money factor. Obviously if you don't do research and know what the standard is you can easily get taken. There are plenty of dealers that add a little extra to the money factor. As for the lease term, this may or may not be intentional, maybe they are just uninformed, I don't know. The actual guy I am buying from quoted me on the 27 month first and I had to tell him the 24 month term is better. When there is a winter event going on with a 4K incentive, it's not that hard to have ~8K difference in pricing if they decide not to pass any of that along.

verdugo

Key words are purchase order.

If you stated it was an offer sheet, well then's its a different ball game.

Exactly what Rob said. If all you signed was an offer sheet, I have no problem with you shopping for a better price.

Let's look at it from the dealer's point of view:

* If I only sign an offer sheet, I can't be mad at the dealer if they sell the car to somebody else.
* If I sign a purchase order and they sell the car to somebody else, there'd be hell to pay.

hambonecampana

Very sorry, Here's my reasoning to post here-I didn't want to just ask in the BMW z3 forum, as they have obviously decided that was the car for them. Someone told me to post it here, so I did (this is the first time I've used a forum). Again, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone, I'm just not sure on this purchase, and wanted to follow people's suggestion so that I could get a wide variety of feedback.

index2020

Hello,

We live in New York City and are in the process of buying a new car from a dealer in the city.

The dealer told me that I'd get temporary registration when I take the car out of the dealership (these are valid for 30 days apparently) and will get regular tags in "30-40 days".

Questions -
1. One of my friends told me that the temporary tags are only for driving across state lines and may not be used for generally driving around. My dealer says not so. Who's right?
2. Are there any restrictions on temporary tags? Can I drive to Boston with them?
3. What happens if my regular tags don't show up in 30 days? Is that a possibility?

Any help will be deeply appreciated!

Regards,
Saugata

robr2

The only thing I can advise is that MA doesn't recognize temporary tags. Now you probably won't get stopped for that alone as I see temp tags all the time.

fezo

Funny thing. I'm in that spot right now. Looks like the real registration got lost in the mail and they are correcting that. I'm driving around just fine. Might want to watch your speed and such but I'd drive anywhere with it myself.

qbrozen

I'm certainly not upset ... although a bit put off that you didn't respond to me in the first thread.

j/k

index2020

Do the temporary tags look different from permanent tags? Is it easy to tell by just looking at them?

robr2

They are usually a paper form and are hand written with all the pertinent information.

fezo

Exactly so. It's a paper tag that you put in the back window. In my case it's on the front because it's a convertible and we were still having top down days well into November. That's certainly over with!

oldfarmer50

"...MA doesn't recognize temporary tags..."

I've heard the same thing about NY which makes me wonder what the OP may be getting in to.

What would a person do if they found a car say, in Florida and wanted to drive it back to Boston and then register it in MA where he lived? Would he risk getting busted as soon as he entered the state?

It seems unreasonable to wait down in Florida until MA mailed him the proper plates. There must be some better way to do that.

stickguy

NY has temp tags. Almost positive of it.

In NJ, there are 2 kinds. a 20 (30? pretty sure 20) resident tag, and a 15 day non-resident.

the non-resident is just intended for the buyer to get it back home to register it. The 20 day resident tag is for you to use until the dealer gets to the DMV to get the plates, and your registration arrives (you get one even if you transfer tags at the dealer).

It serves the same purpose as a tag and registration card, and I danged well can drive it in NY.

also fun when you see a new car in the parking lot at work, since it lists the buyers name (and address, surprised they still do that.) so if you are nosy, can find out who bought what!

robr2

What would a person do if they found a car say, in Florida and wanted to drive it back to Boston and then register it in MA where he lived? Would he risk getting busted as soon as he entered the state? It seems unreasonable to wait down in Florida until MA mailed him the proper plates. There must be some better way to do that.

As noted, I see plenty of vehicles in MA running temp tags - especially as NH issues them and lots of folks from NH commute to MA.

I highly doubt an officer in MA would stop someone just for that. If you're doing something stupid and get stopped, the unregistered vehicle ticket would just be a bonus.

Sandman6472

That's right Fez...blame the post office. When it does come in, please let me know the post mark...am curious as to when it was mailed out. It's not always the post office's fault...many times it sits at the dealers or the registration office. We're always the scapegoat for some reason! :confuse:

The Sandman :confuse: :sick: :shades:

fezo

Whoops! Let's say I suspect is one one end or the other of the mailing process - not the middle man....

redsfan77

I understand dealers are trying to get bonus money for the number of cars sold by the end of this month and by the end of this year. My buddies and I keep getting different answers about the end date. Some dealers say delivery by 12/31. Some dealers say delivery by 1/2 (or even 1/3). I know several rebates are good through 1/2 and in the past salesmen have told me they have until the Monday after the last day to meet goals.

I know the pressure is on to sell by 12/31, but is the real end 1/2? If it really is different, does it go by each dealer or by region or by make?

jwilliams2

It could be by dealer, region, but most likely, make. Just to be safe, why not buy whatever it is you are looking for by 12/31?

boomchek

Yes, depends on when the programs end and when year end cut off is. The cut offs could be different for both the manufacturer and for the dealer.

For example when I was at Nissan, month end cutoffs were suually end of the month or the Monday after to get everything in order from weekend sales, but dealer month end was a week into the new month.

So it all depends dealer by dealer, and by manufacturer. The best thing to do is just do the deal and take delivery by the 31st just to be safe.

redsfan77

That explains why we keep getting different answers. Thanks for explanation.

Several of us belong to a credit union and have our financing pre approved. They are not open Saturdays. I have to check if they are even open 1/2. We might have to get the loan money 1/3. If we find something this afternoon we should be fine, but we may not. I wanted to know if some places may still deal through 1/2 or 1/3.

boomchek

Best thing to do is if you're going after a certain brand, check when their offers end. Usually they extend until Monday the 2nd or sometimes Tuesday the 3rd.

mystichalo

So I have finally found the exact car I've been looking for at a CarMax and ran the AutoCheck and have some questions. Below is the AutoCheck report results; questions are below it:

09/20/2007 MI
1
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:110V2630493)
09/20/2007 MI
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
10/19/2007
Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER
09/26/2008 MI
2,583
Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION
09/29/2008 MI
2,583
Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION AS MANUFACTURER VEHICLE
10/10/2008 ELMHURST, IL
2,583
Mazda North American Operations REPORTED AS MAZDA CERTIFIED PRE-OWNED VEHICLE
11/12/2008 ROMEOVILLE, IL
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
12/04/2008 ROMEOVILLE, IL
2,594
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:X8339670292) (Lien Reported)
03/12/2009 ROMEOVILLE, IL
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
03/12/2010 ROMEOVILLE, IL
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
07/12/2011 ROMEOVILLE, IL
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
09/21/2011 ROMEOVILLE, IL
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL

1) Why would a new or almost new car be sold at auction? [Year 2008, sold at auction in '08]
2) Does there being a lien on the vehicle and no repossession meant the issue was resolved?
3) Why are there no other records of this car beyond 2,594 mileage? Does that mean they never had it serviced at a Mazda dealer after that? I mean the car has 77,000 miles on it, so nothing reported after 2,000 is a bit concerning... Do I need to pay for the full report to get more info?
4) Does CarMax allow you to take the car off the lot to have an independent mechanic inspect it? I have to transfer the car from Illinois (I live in Texas).
5) Can I still finance an extended warranty if I go with a company outside of CarMax?

Thanks in advance!

-Halo

robr2

1) Why would a new or almost new car be sold at auction? [Year 2008, sold at auction in '08]

If you notice it says it was a "manufacturer vehicle". That could mean it was a loaner, a demo, sent to car shows, used a a press vehicle, the local Mazda field rep may have driven for a while, et al.

2) Does there being a lien on the vehicle and no repossession meant the issue was resolved?

The lein means that whoever bought it took out a loan. It had nothing to do with a repo. When you take out a loan, the bank places a lein on the collateral - in this case, the car.

3) Why are there no other records of this car beyond 2,594 mileage? Does that mean they never had it serviced at a Mazda dealer after that? I mean the car has 77,000 miles on it, so nothing reported after 2,000 is a bit concerning...

It probably means the previous owner had it serviced at a facility that doesn't report to AutoCheck. Not having it listed doesn't automatically mean it was never done.

stickguy

just curious, but what is so special about a 2008 Mazda with 77K on it to make it worth paying to ship it in?

Also, carfax/autocheck can tell you things, but they are far from perfect. As you note, there are just things that don't get picked up.

Not a substitute for actually inspecting the car.

mystichalo

just curious, but what is so special about a 2008 Mazda with 77K on it to make it worth paying to ship it in?

It's the exact car I have been looking to buy for two years. In a nutshell, it is my dream daily driver at a price I can afford. My other two top cars run $5k-$8k more and cost more to maintain as they both have worse gas mileage, require premium gas, and parts are more expensive.

Also, carfax/autocheck can tell you things, but they are far from perfect. As you note, there are just things that don't get picked up.

I'm well aware of that fact, which is why I plan on calling around to local dealerships in the area to see if they have record of the car as it has been in the same city for three years.

Not a substitute for actually inspecting the car.

Also well aware of that, which is why I'm having it sent here to test drive it and have it inspected by our mechanic of 25 years before committing to buy. I actually have a lot of experience with cars and how to check for body work, framework issues, bad tires, etc. What I knew much less about was the specifics of how the AutoCheck report is run and what certain terminology means, but thanks for the concern.

qbrozen

Is it a specific color combo? Just curious.

I would avoid 3rd-party warranties. They aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

You'll notice this is a CPO car. Definitely find out how much longer it is covered. It might be up to 100k miles, in which case you are FAR better off with such a vehicle than one that you'd want a 3rd-party warranty on. So when you start calling dealers, they hopefully will at least tell you how long the CPO is in effect for. They MAY NOT give you the service history over the phone, however.

Kirstie_H

You might ask to be certain, but I believe Carmax allows a 5-day return period if you're not satisfied with the vehicle. Not sure if this applies to transfers, and you might lose the transfer fee if you return. However, if the return period applies, then you can always buy it, take it to a mechanic, and if it doesn't meet your standards, return it. That sounds like a HUGE pain, but it makes me think, "what would they have to lose by letting you take it to be inspected?" If you're going to do that anyway, better to let you take it before buying than have you buy it and return it.

dsf767

Hi All,

So Ever since I saw the New Kia Optima SX I have wanted it. I think it fits a place in the market where no other car really existed before.

Here are my issues I have never been in this situation first off I have never bought a New car only Used cars.

Also I still owe money on my current car

Here is the Deal I used to drive an RSX and it died about 1 and a half years ago at that time I didn't have the money to get a great car so I ended up getting a 2006 Suburu Impreza 2.5i. I looked up the trade in value of the Impreza and found it to be even with what I still owe on the car maybe minus like 300 more that I owe then the KBB trade value shows.

I now have a new job that pays much better and really want to get in a New Optima. I have a really short commute so I was thinking about going the lease route as my commute to work is super short. I have always wanted to get a new car and hate driving my Impreza. I mean its not a bad car but I want something nicer with some better options and I fell inlove with the Optima SX.

The main thing thats stopping me is I dont want to get screwed over on a deal as I have never bougght a so I wanted advice from experienced new car buyers.

First off I know I should never talk trade until I get the real price I will be paying for the New Optima but what I am not sure of is how to handle my issue with the trade making sure that I don't screw it up and make a bad deal.

Also just as a quick note I do have $2,000 - $2,500 to put as a down payment toward the Optima.

Thanks in advance for the help!

qbrozen

when you bring up the trade means absolutely nothing as long as you have done your homework. You need to be prepared with your numbers ahead of time. Know what kind of financing you can get on your own, too. Don't let them push you into talking in terms of "payment." You want to work with whole, actual numbers ... your purchase price and your trade-in price.

As long as you've worked out your financing with an outside source, talking payments will only confuse things. You should know ahead of time what your payments will be if they meet your purchase/trade-in values. Then, when that is all settled, you can inquire about financing. You tell them "I have x.x% for xx months from my bank. Can you meet or beat it?"

KBB is crap, BTW. The values there mean nothing in the real world.