Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

dsf767

I have done that in the past however with this car I think I want to go the lease route so I would have to work with them. As now I ahve a much shorter commute so wont put over 15k miles a year and I would like a cheaper payment with the option for a new car at the end.

I do have very good credit I am in the 740 range on my credit score and have good job history.

The only reason I asked is because I have never leased and never tried to get a new car still owing on my current car.

qbrozen

sorry. Missed the lease part.

In that case, as long as the money factor is low, most people would tell you not to put any money down.

Still, though, do your homework. There is a lease calculator here on Edmunds, and the residual/money factor can be found out, too. There are message boards here for every make/model where you can inquire. Armed with those numbers as well as a good selling price, you can figure it all out.

Kirstie_H

Here's the Lease Questions discussion specific to the Optima:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f229a32/96#MSG96

As far as the trade-in goes, you negotiate that just like you would if you were buying. The "purchase price" on a leased vehicle can be negotiated, as can the trade in.

As far as still owing money on it, well... as long as you don't owe a LOT more than it's worth, the dealer doesn't care what you owe on it. His only concern is purchasing it from you at a price that will allow him to re-sell it while making some money. That's what the dealer's offer for your trade-in will be based on, nothing more.

IF you owe (slightly) more than what it is worth, you can expect to have limited negotiation power when it comes to the price of the vehicle you intend to lease, as the excess would be rolled into the price of the new vehicle you intend to lease.

brittexan

I see that a lot of vehicles on BMW CPO website end in various figures, such as $xx,991 $xx,992 $xx,993 $xx,994 $xx,995

I assume the last three digits signify how long they have had the car, and how many times the price has been reduced?

Is there a formula / rule to figure out when the price was reduced and when it may be reduced again if it doesn't sell.

Basically if it's $xx,991 does that mean it's been reduced a couple of times and they are more likely to negotiate or I can wait a little while for further reduction?

THANKS!!!!

bobnyc

I am a 41 year-old New Yorker who has not owned a car since 1997. I am moving to Chicago for a job and will need to buy a car. I am considering several small/mid size models in the $35-45k range. Prefer to go used (1-2yrs old) but slightly more upscale than new but less upscale. Will pay cash. I have contacted a number of dealers in Chicago area about specific cars and asked them to send by e-mail all the pricing details, starting with the car price itself, dealer fees (itemized one by one), destination charges, taxes -- the works. I have also advised them that I will not come in for a test drive until I receive the info in full and we get a chance to discuss it over e-mail, and that I would be contacting multiple dealers. I advised them that I will be making a decision within 3-7 days.

I have not heard back from one dealer (it has been 72 hours) yet. Based on my experience with buying other items, internet is highly effective for consumers to do comparison shopping and drive down the price. However, I seem to be having no luck here. What am I doing wrong? Any insights will be helpful.

qbrozen

First, it doesn't work so great with cars. Second, it works even less with used cars. Telling them you are contacting multiple dealers does nothing in this case because no 2 used cars are the same. Your tactic would be more effective on new cars, but again, internet shopping for cars is a hit or miss endeavor. When I've done it in the past, I have found I get about a 10% response rate.

stickguy

you pretty much are pushing all the buttons as a non-serious buyer. IOW, someone that is going to take a lot of their time, but they see very little chance of selling you a car (and even less at a price that would make it worth the hassle).

So, they are concentrating on buyers that are there in real time most likely.

Might be just me (different strokes and all that), but i have to see the car first to know if I even want it.,

anyway, most dealers do have a web feature to ask for the "special internet price" (if they don't have it listed already). if you want to negotiate off that feel free, but doing it via email most likely you are going to have to make the first offer.

and if you want to call and ask what the standard fees are it will save a lot of time probably. tax, DMV, etc. will be the same so the only realy variable is their individual dealer fees (doc fees).

finally, in my experience, it makes little sense to start trying to negotiate before you have settled on exactly what you want.

bobnyc

Thanks to both replies. I am looking at Lexus is250 or BMW328i. If I am hitting the buttons of a non-serious buyer, I definitely need to change my approach. Do you think it would help if I did not tell the dealer that I am looking at multiple cars? Also, from other posts I understand that dealers add various fees (not just document fees), such as floorplan fees (may be not on used cars), ad fees, etc. into the price. Is this something that they will be willing to disclose in an e-mail? This way I can analyze and research these items before coming to a dealership. The irony is that I am an very serious buyer.

qbrozen

yes, they should be happy to disclose their fees. Most shouldn't apply for a new car, but you never know. There are some shady practices out there.

I wouldn't tell them what else you are shopping up front. Just focus on the car they have on hand. You don't have a trade, so it should make things much easier. Also, you never really want to dicker on price without seeing the car. And they don't want to dicker without you being there to lean on.

You could try to hash out a price "pending inspection and test drive." Just make sure you are a real buyer for THAT car and aren't going to continue shopping if they meet your price.

bobnyc

Thanks a lot, will do.

davem2001

I contacted 3 Toyota dealers in the Pittsburgh area last Friday via their websites asking for a price quote on cars shown on their websites.
One replied - "You can expect detailed information and a price quote within the next 4 hours" but then never did send anyting - it's now 5 days later. The others just reply back with their phone number and say "give me a call". Hey, if I wanted to call you, your number is on your website.
Why pretend that you have an "Internet sales dept" that can negotiate the price via email when it obviously isn't true? Very, very frustrating. Not the best way to start a business relationship, with a blatant lie. My old car is looking better and better to me already...I haven't even stepped onto the dealer lot yet and they have managed to aggravate the ^%$# out of me. I guess their sales are good enough that they don't really need my business.

Has anyone been able to buy a car through an "internet sales dept" and negotiate the price online?

fezo

No. I have never successfully gotten an E-mail price quote. I don't know why they even claim they have such a department.

michaellno

No. I have never successfully gotten an E-mail price quote. I don't know why they even claim they have such a department.

Must be a dealer issue. I accidentally asked for a quote from my local Ford dealer on a Mustang GT (this was done from the Ford website, not the dealer's). A day later I got an email with a quote with a price that was just above invoice.

So, it can happen.

qbrozen

My estimate is that I get maybe a 10% satisfactory response rate from "internet departments" at dealerships. In other words, contact 10 and you'll find 1 who does it the right way.

28firefighter

I have had good luck with dealers who I know utilize truecar, but if you use TrueCar to get a price and contact the dealer, you are leaving money on the table from the get-go, since they charge ~$300 or so to the dealer for the lead.

cu503

Hi, I do not wish to insult dealers, but want to negotiate from the a market price. I am looking at a 2012 Acura tl, Edmund's TMV says 33,900 or so, but for March they list 1750 dealer incentive Am I correct I can deduct this from the Edmund TMV as an offer price? Thank you

obyone

Seriously doubt you could insult a dealer. Offer invoice minus $1750 and see what they say. TL isn't a hot seller so you never know. BTW if you offer invoice minus $1750 I'm sure they will counter offer. Would be interesting to know what they offer.

Kirstie_H

This is just a simple business deal - unless you're going to make disparaging personal remarks, the dealer shouldn't be insulted by your offer, and you shouldn't be insulted if they reject it.

You want a car. They want to sell you a car. If the offer you make is doable, they'll say yes... BUT, maybe not right away.

Your best bet is to go in with a number that you feel comfortable with. You don't need to explain how you came up with that number; in fact, I suggest that you do not. Stick to that number, and say this is the max I'm willing to pay. If they do not agree to your number, thank them for their time, and leave. You may be chased as you're trying to leave, or you may receive a phone call a bit later stating they can meet your price. Or, you may not hear from them again.

If you don't, you might try the same offer at another dealership. If you can't get to your number there, then you've probably picked a number that's too low, and you'll need to make another offer.

fezo

That is very close to the classic bobst method - except he put a whole lot of worry into his exact number to offer. Worked for him.

bolivar

Where or where is our bobst? Wasn't he from Florida, so he shouldn't have retired to there...

kyfdx

I think bobst was from Virginia...

fezo

bobst was suburban DC. I thought Maryland but it could be Virginia. After he stopped posting in here and people started wondering I looked him up and asked.

Turns out he indeed retired at which point he was too busy playing golf and such to keep posting so the advice in here to our working stiffs is to keep working because we enjoy your company!

bobst liked that we remembered him. Incidentally, a part of the main hospital at Memorial Sloan Kettering is the Bobst pavilion. I think of him every time I see that.

cabanadan

Maybe it's because I'm in NY, but I'm sensing a trend in "Internet Sales Managers." I'm looking to buy two trucks at the same time, so I've looked at a lot of cars lately. I sent out requests for two brands at 6 different dealers and I have yet to talk to a guy. Not one!

And they all seem to have, um...unusual names. It can't be a coincidence that when a guy is shopping on the internet, he gets contacted by 6 women with names like Tiffany, Chastity, Tatiana, Alexa, (not making those up). Somehow, they all want me to come into the dealership to meet them, too. (Even if it mattered what the salesperson looked like, I suspect I'd be quickly handed off to someone else with a deeper voice and a y chromosome.)

Haven't gotten a single quote yet, but lots of emails, phone calls and nuisance. One was so patronizing. She said she hadn't heard from me in a while (3 whole days!), and that she knows how car buying is so stressful, and she was there to help. I responded saying, thanks, but the encouragement would be more helpful if it included a quote on the car. She handed me off to another girl with a similar name and an exotic accent. Still no quote.

My advice is to visit a few of the dealers in your area with 5 star ratings, pick your salesman if you can, and then get them to quote by email. You'll build a relationship and learn whether the salesman is worth your business. Worked for me. Now I'm just toying with these "Sales Managers" playing the same tricks they play ("better hurry, I'm signing this week...").

stickguy

wouldn't it be easier, and a whole lot quicker, to just go in the dealership, decide which truck you want, then strike a deal? Given how long you have been playing the game, it doesn't seem like you are in any hurry though!

billy3554

Some people think they are so smart when the reality is quite different. The truth is no person outsmarts (toys with?) a car salesman! Once a person believes themselves to be superior, they lose!

Seems some people have issues with women in the workforce! Interesting!

Kirstie_H

1. I do not concur with your first statement, which implies that car salesmen are, as a whole, the most clever people on the planet.

2. I don't think anyone was stating they have problems with women in the workforce, and it's almost impossible to infer that from the member's statement, unless you deliberately attempt to misinterpret the words. It appears that some people do, rightly, have a problem with USING women in the workforce for the purpose of luring men into a dealership - not using them for their knowledge and skill. I'm not sure that's what the dealerships are doing, but if they are, then yeah... I also have a problem with it.

obyone

Outsmart a car salesman? That's not the problem. It's the Deskman that you need to watch.

benrey23

Where I work for used we price them very competitive keeping an eye on the local market. When someone calls we quote them the price. We get so many calls we have a team who takes the calls. Two guys and 1 women. If need be we will quote KBB over the phone for trade as a estimate. Give the customer what they want in terms of info and they come in and set up a appointment. I am an hard working salesman and if you want me to make nothing I will not sell to you. I earn your respect and very seldom have to give up the ocean to earn your business.

billy3554

I did not intend to suggest car sales people are, as a whole, the most clever people in the workforce. I did suggest car sales people are in the business of selling vehicles and it is likely they know as much, perhaps more, than most car buyers about selling vehicles. To imply I suggested otherwise is, perhaps, a deliberate attempt to misinterpret.

A statement such as "they all seem to have, um...unusual names. It can't be a coincidence that when a guy is shopping on the internet, he gets contacted by 6 women with names like Tiffany, Chastity, Tatiana, Alexa, (not making those up)" is emblematic of the subtle discrimination faced by women every day.

To suggest a dealership who employs female sales people does so to lure men into a dealership is dangerously simplistic. Granting validity to such an unsupported suggestion simply empowers those who seek to demean women. It is also demeaning to most men. Really, we men don't go to a dealership simply because a women has an "um, unusual" name.

Sadly women continue to be treated badly by a large part of the population. One just needs to observe current events to witness this on a daily basis. The member's words in question simply contribute to this trend.

I did not deliberately misinterpret a member's words. I read the words as written and commented they seem indicative of a problem with women in the workforce. Our host's interpretations and statement of a problem with dealership "lures", when there is no evidence, do not validate the member's written words.

karhill1

I tend to agree dismissing a female sales person because of her name is demeaning. I have a daughter who is a chemical engineer. She experiences subtle bias issues on a daily basis. Sometimes it is due to her gender, sometimes to her blond hair. Adding additional issues due to her name would only add to the problems she faces every day.

imidazol97

> Adding additional issues due to her name would only add to the problems she faces every day.

That's why in professional settings, the names should be Ms. Krunkel, Ms. Fernald, Mrs. Davis, etc., instead of Debbie, Ashley, Kimmie, etc.

Kirstie_H

My assumption was that these were "fake" names being used. I've been a blonde female all of my life, with the added burden (?) of having an unusual name, and I have to say I've never felt discriminated against because of any of that... maybe it's just because of where I live.

I visit a lot of dealership pages in the line of duty here at Edmunds, and I have not noticed an overabundance of female internet sales managers, at least not disproportionately so. There are as many Steves and Davids as there are Tiffanys and Ambers... and any other name you can think of.

kyfdx

What's unusual about Kristie?

josera

I found an dealer (it's really just 2 guys who run a used car business) that wanted to buy my 2008 IS 350. The offer was to pay off my lease (so they would have the title to sell my vehicle) and pay me the difference from our agreed upon amount. They picked up the car from me on February 1st. We signed all the Lexus paperwork together and they gave me a check for the payoff amount and I FedExed it to Lexus. Lexus received it and told me it was not a valid form of payment. It was not a certified check.

I let the dealer know and they said they would re-send payment. It's been over 6 weeks now and I have called and emailed the dealer relentlessly and there is always an excuse or they say the check is in the mail.

They may be waiting until they sell my car so they actually have the money to make the payoff but what if they don't sell it for awhile?

They stopped replying to my emails right after they picked up the car. I guess they don't want anything in writing. I do have all the previous emails where they offer to buy the vehicle and explain how it works. I have attachments of their dealer license and they paperwork where Lexus authorizes them to make the payoff.

When I get them on the phone it's always "let me check on it and call you back." I never get a call back and now they are ignoring my calls altogether.

I've had Lexus call them directly, they told them the same story "check is in the mail."

I've contacted the BBB, the police (in case this is a scam) and my lawyer. Does any one here have any advice? Thanks

kyfdx

Why not just drive by there and talk to them? See if they still have your car?

stickguy

and if they do, they must be committing some level of fraud by now not having paid it off, so just take it back and rip up all the paperwork. without paying it off, they won't have a title so can't imagine they were able to transfer into their name.

josera

Unfortunately, I can not drive by the dealership. I am in NY and they are in TX. They picked the car up at my home and said they shipped it to TX.

When I google my VIN I do see it up for sale on various sites. I see it has 2000+ miles since I last saw it so I believe they drove, not shipped it to TX.

kyfdx

Wow..

Where did you have your car advertised for sale, that a dealer in Texas, 1500 miles away, would contact you to buy it?

Did the dealer come pick it up in person, or send an agent?

This is really starting to smell.. even if they turn out to be semi-legitimate, they are at least taking advantage of the distance between you to delay payment.

If you talk to them again, I'd tell them they have two days to get a certified check to Lexus, or you are reporting the car stolen and contacting the dealer licensing officials in Texas..

josera

I contacted them. I was referred by a friend, they ended up not doing a deal because my friend's car was still in the initial lease period (whereas mine was past that and on an extension).

Dealer came in person. Came into my home, sat in my dining room. We did all the paperwork together. He gave me the check for the pay off and had me FedEx it myself so I would know it was sent.

The check looked fine to me and was the same kind he wrote out to me for my cut. My check cleared but Lexus didn't accept theirs.

kyfdx

Seems weird that a Texas dealer would come all the way to New York to buy a car that isn't unusual, rare, etc.. Seems like the transportation and travel costs would eat up all of his profit..

I'm not sure you have a case for theft.... It isn't like his check bounced... Lexus Finance refused it, and he has yet to submit another form of payment that is acceptable to them..

Most likely, as you say... they are trying to sell the car before coming up with the money.. Hopefully... because, I would hate to think of the alternative..

josera

It seems like they travel all over picking up cars. There were several times they were in NY but I wasn't ready to give them my car yet as I was waiting on delivery of my new vehicle.

My car was excellent condition with ridiculously low mileage for a 2008.

I feel like they sent a form of payment they knew Lexus would refuse. Could that be considered grand larceny by fraud?

kyfdx

I'm definitely not a lawyer... but, I think my next phone call would vaguely threaten legal action...

You definitely have reason to be concerned.. You might ask for a supervisor at Lexus Finance and tell them you need some advice... I'm sure they've run into this, before..

jeepmike2

I leased a 2012 Jeep Wrangler 4 door unlimited from a dealership in Virginia 2 weeks ago. I get a call from the sales manager last night telling me that they used a money factor that applied to 2 door wranglers instead of the money factor that applies to 4 door wranglers. He told me (after all paperwork and contracts were signed 2 weeks ago) that my payment is going to go up and that I will be getting a call tomorrow (I have yet to receive one) with just how much it will go up. Is this allowed? Can they force me into paying $50 or $100 more a month on a lease compared to the payment that was agreed upon at delivery? They had 3-4 people, including finance, look at this deal and now they are coming back and saying they goofed and it's going to cost me. That isn't fair! They should eat the costs as the dealership, right? Do I have any legal recourse here if they say, you cant keep your 4 door wrangler unless you pay the new monthly payment?

qbrozen

Is this allowed? yes.
Can they force you to pay more? no.
Should they eat the costs? They don't have to.
Do you have legal recourse? no.

If what they are saying is true, they can't get the bank to go through with the deal using the current contract. That means they either need you to sign a new one OR they need to take the car back and "unwind the deal."

Frankly, you are in the driver's seat. They don't WANT the car back because you've put miles on it and it will be tough for them to sell again without discounting it.

Just keep threatening to return the car and not sign a new deal until they come up with a new contract that you are satisfied with. If that mean they have to reduce the purchase price to meet your monthly payment demand, then so be it. That is their problem. Be firm, but NICE. There is no need to get mad or snippy with them. It very well could be an honest mistake, but like I said, you are in command because they need your signature. Just work calmly with them to reach a solution. If you need to give the vehicle back, then just go ahead and do it. You got a free ride for a few weeks out of it, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

tommister2

I have been through almost exactly the same thing, also in Virginia. In 1998 I leased a GMC Yukon. The dealer did something wrong with the paperwork. 2-3 weeks later I got a call saying I needed to come in and sign new papers, and the payment would be higher (or fewer miles per year, they gave me a choice). I refused. I didn't want the vehicle at the higher payment or reduced miles. I offered to bring the Yukon back. Eventually the dealer worked it out with GMAC - they told me they had to put more money into the deal. They were very unhappy with me, but I had negotiated for the price and annual miles I wanted. They wrote the lease, not me.

Did you have a trade in? That could complicate things for you, if you try to unwind the deal.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't work at a dealership but I feel your pain. You don't have to accept the new contract, but if you don't you might not get to keep the Jeep. Good luck! I do know a good consumer lawyer in Richmond, if you decide you need one.

kevinc5

I purchased a CPO Audi a a few months ago. I recently had a flat and mounted the spare. Then I saw that the spare didn't match the OEM Pirelli's but was a new "Achilles" tire. I couldn't even find Achilles on the NHTSA database. I mentioned the tire to a service writer at the dealership who told me Achilles was a cheap tire they bought and it was OK as a spare, even though it was a directional tire which should only be used in one side of the car.
Is switching spares like this common in the industry? Do I have a beef? Should I be concerned that the dealership will be cutting corners by using no-name "Achilles" filters, oil, spare parts, etc?

stickguy

you got a full size spare? These days, that in itself is a miracle.

anyway, the brand doesn't really matter (since it should be on for only a short time), but I would be concerned about having a unidirectional spare. Not sure what that would do running "backwards" on one side of the car. A spare needs to be non-directional.

abgcdm

I need help and I am unsure what to do and how to proceed with the following issue. I purchase a Jeep 6 weeks ago in California and had financing through my personal bank. Went in to buy the car and as it was a Sunday I couldn't get a bank draft from my bank that day. I gave the dealer my down payment and signed an option contract, but told them I would be back in a day or two with full payment. I came back a few later with the bank draft and a second personal check in order to my the bank draft an even number. At this point the dealer had FULL payment for my vehicle. The dealer said the contract was full satisfied. Although, despite my asking several times didn't give me paperwork backing this up...not sure what I was suppose to receive?

I found out several weeks later that the dealer never cashed my bank draft (they only cashed down payment check) and that they filed for a loan with Ally bank-their lender that I was not aware of until I got a phone call for Ally saying my payment was late. I am working to Flat Cancel the loan with Ally, but I have two options moving forward and I need help to find out what I need to do in both cases and how to protect myself. One big issue is that the registration and title erroneously list Ally as the lienholder. I have the registration in hand but NOT the title yet.

Option 1: Keep the car but the dealer is telling me I have to sign a new contract as the numbers on my current contract don't match the bank draft due to the 2nd personal check I gave. Bank needs numbers to match for dealer to cash check. I am worried about signing a new contract. How will I be sure that the old one is voided and the new one is correct. Also, not sure what I need to do to correct the title and registration. Again, still waiting on the title.

Option 2: They will let me return the car and get my full down payment back. How do I ensure that the contract is fully voided and I am released from all responsibly on the vehicle. Again, what do I do about the title and registration.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

rickhassold

abgcdm,

That is a bit of a messy situation. I can see it happening on accident at the dealership, although yes of course it could have been done intentionally because sometimes a dealer prefers one method of financing vs the other. It happened once at my work to one of my customers simply because the paperwork goes to a different office as soon as you buy the car, and when you handed me or the finance person your check a few days later, odds of that info getting communicated to the person in the 'business office' are low. Its annoying but true. A few days pass and they simply proceed with the original loan figuring you never came in to complete your side of the 'option contract'.

If this entire deal is at a franchise name brand store, even if you bought a random used car, I would really NOT worry about getting actually defrauded. If you need to sign a new contract, you're safe doing so. I've had to resign new contracts due to random errors many times with customers. A dealer wont, and cant, try to get you multiple loans on the same car or anything crazy like that. If its at a small private 'mom and pop' store, Id be a little more careful, simply in regards to checking that all the numbers and math add up.

If you do resign a contract, they sometimes use a form that explains the reason for a new contract. Its nothing official looking.

Also, you mention the title. You will not actually receive the title. One of the two banks will. So you'll have a hard time knowing. However, good news is the bank will fight to make sure they get the title. If you redo your loan with your own bank, and it finally gets cashed and done, eventually THEY will start asking where their title is.

Calling the DMV will not do much because the paperwork process on their end takes forever, sometimes as long as 90-100 days. They wont know what has been mailed or sitting in a bin waiting to be opened. Especially with how messed up this deal is, it could easily take 90 days from the time it begins being fixed.

My advice is to decide if you want the car, which if the only problem being this loan mixup, Id say you want it and keep it. If thats the case, next step just call or visit the dealership and talk to the sales manager or general manager if hes available. DO NOT GET ANGRY and out of line, because if they dont like you, odds of getting help gets reduced. Legally they are probably fine to just leave everything as is, because the option contract was legal, and it would be hard to prove that yes you really gave them a 100% fully executable draft check. It isnt their job to 'help' get your second loan funded, and if there was one one small problem, they can stick with the original loan. So just ask for help, which it seems like you have done, since they are being nice and offering to take the car back.

I think you can get this problem taken care, as its not TOO big of a problem. It sucks, but within 6 months it WILL be taken care of, with only a few phone calls to check on your part I bet.

What I would worry about WAY more, to make sure its taken care of, is getting the WRONG loan, and ANY reference to a LATE payment, TAKEN OFF YOUR CREDIT. Thats whats important! And probably the only important thing in this whole thing. Im not an expert in that but calling the actual bank that said you missed a payment and checking, and double checking that they really mean it wont be there, should be the #1 priority.

Goodluck.

rickhassold

On a side note to my response above.. You said you didnt know until Ally called you regarding a late payment.

Regardless of this dealership mixup, how were you supposed to make the payment if you HAD knowingly gone with Ally from day1? Did they not send you a payment book, welcome packet, or notice prior?