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Full Sized Vans
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Typically, if the van has rear a/c it also has heat. It is usually one system controlled from the dash panel. You might want to double check the van you're considering.
Jerry
Are the new SOHC engines reliable? Can I get the near 300k mileage that I got out of the 4.9l/ 300hp straight 6cyl.? Is anyone having trouble with the 4.6l V8?
I would appreciate any and all input.
thanks,
pete
It's only 10,000 miles I driven since purchase but the '97 Conversion van I drive is equipped with the 4.6 Triton. I haven't had any problem with it to date.
Jerry
Now, I am in the market for a new full sized van because I need more towing power and torque and we have decided to go with the 1-ton GMC or Chevy
(same vehicles). They went through their shake down years and everything seems to be working well now. I expect to get the same service from it that I have gotten from my 1/2 ton Chevy. By the way, I am a 5/4" rather petite gal who has no trouble driving the full sized van and cannot give up the cargo area it provides. I tried going to the Suburban as it has a great towing reputation, but it would not give me the interior space or access to that space that the van does. I raise and show dogs (big ones) and they need to be accommodated inside the van when traveling. You would be surprised how many women drive these vehicles without any problem. Believe me, I do my share of mall parking also and have not had any dings or scrapes as a result. I am looking forward to getting my 1-ton van with the 454 engine and 4.1 rear! Also, always go for the rear air, it will help cool off the large interior much faster on a hot day, then you can cut it off and run with only the dash air quite comfortably. One last thing, I saw a recent report that claimed that full sized vans were the safest on the road, superior even to SUV's!!!
> You would be surprised how many women drive
> these vehicles without any problem. Believe me,
> I do my share of mall parking also and have not
> had any dings or scrapes as a result.
I'm one of those women who was worried about being able to maneuver a full-sized van, let alone whether or not it would fit in our garage... until I dug up the specs on the '85 Buick LeSabre that I've been driving. Get this:
Buick GM Van
length 218.4" 218.8"
width 78.0" 79.2"
...Hardly any difference at all! I guess most of the Buick's length is taken up by hood and trunk, whereas in the full-sized van, it's mostly passenger cabin. So I'm not so worried anymore.
As owner of a 95 Chateau van, it has given us quite good service. Mostly used for weekend trips, the reading lights are a real plus for backseat passengers on long trips. Two peeves. Had to replace front brakes (including rotors at 36K miles - pads had been replaced under warranty at ~10K and rotors turned). Rear climate control is suboptimal. Can't independently control front and rear temperature. When defrost is on, e.g. to clear a foggy windshield in the summer, rear heat goes on, unless you switch off rear fan control.
Otherwise, it has been a charm.
(Seems like the vehicle your considering has been sitting on the lot for quite a while.) When we were looking, we found some XLT's with lot's of options were more expensive than the next model up (Chateau) which had all of the options as standard features.
raised roof conversion package. Can anyone
tell me the relibility of these vans?
Thanks,
GMCRRULES (pontiacrules)
Thanks...maxcar1
Who's right, Edmund's or the GMC dealers?!?
Please help ASAP.
Thanx, Sheldon
Autopedia shows the same $1000 rebate. My brief experience talking to dealers about "dealer cash" is they get all uptight and try to tell you their info is better than yours.
I bet if you talk to more than one dealer you'll get multiple variations of the answer you are seeking.
I've had some confirm dealer cash and others say it doesn't exist. One dealer went on to say that they only get dealer cash at the end of the model year. I knew better--he should have. Heck, some dealers didn't even know consumer rebates existed on the 99's until I told them to look it up.
Try this web site:
http://autopedia.com/html/RebateDlr.html
Edmunds, please confirm the dealer cash is correct. While your at it, could you verify it is $1000 for the Chevy conversion (also known as YF-7). Thanks.
Thanks.
Thank you,
Warren
Thanks, Steve
'93 Ford E150 Cargo whsle 7,225, retail 9,225.
Carriage Navigator whsle 1,830, retail 2,320.
Average mileage range for '93 is 65k to 70k
Last model year for Carriage Conversions was 1995.
No longer in production.
NADA publishes a van/truck conversion and Limousine appraisal guide which is updated 3 times per year.
Jerry
Is it possible to get swing-out, hinged windows,
for the rear doors of a 1999 Ford E150?
I have very bad experience with my GMC Vandura G2500 -87 (http://www.dlc.fi/~antsep/auto.jpg) with this unlucky diesel. I have had two very expensive repairs with its motor. First time the chamber went cut off and now the pistons stuck in. The van was driven about 250000 km and the motor was already the second in this vehicle, it was replaced by ex-owner before me, becouse the chamber was snapped then also. So I don't know how much kilometers this used motor have had, but however they made some repairs and service to it, when it was taken in use.
Do you anybody know, what is the fault in the motor or what is the reason for this?
I would like to trust in my vehicle, but I think I never can trust in such american products.
Is it possible to replace the existing climate control panel with the climate control panel from a Chevy Suburban?
The Express does not allow you to control the compressor as the Suburban does. Also air at upper and lower vents only works in the A/C mode.
I guess I am spoiled but the climate control system in this van is a relic from the 70's. Everything else is modern. GM, duh?
Russell
Also I had a bad experience with a 90 Chevy conversion van done by Mark III, The Chevy problems ranged from roof and hood repainted 4 times under waranty, Cruise control replaced twice, Anti lock brake module once, rear end problems and finally a leak in the AC core. Also after about 60K miles parts of the conversion package broke and came off, final problem was half the ceiling falling while driving. I traded this vehicle in 96 for a winstar but miss the room of the big van.
This is a great forum sometimes, but it gets overrun with conversion vans, which have 2 other topic areas of their own.
Good question. Here, I hope.
Midas:
I like that 12-passenger van a lot. I used to drive rented ones pretty regularly, and the extended wheelbase provides a really decent ride, for a truck.
For what it's worth, I've heard that only GM has a dedicated chassis for their 12-passenger vans; that the other manufacturers use the same chassis for both wheelbases, varying only the side frame rails and increasing rear overhang a lot, to provide the added length. Maybe somebody here knows whether this is true. At any rate, I lean toward GM, particularly GMC.
The engine cover must vary with engine size, no? Maybe they used the larger engines for the greater number of seats for the brochure even though you could get the 302 with 12 seats. Maybe they assume that you'd want the bigger engines. Maybe they want to train your brain to request the larger engine when you make the purchase.
C13 - why do you prefer GMC over Chevy? Just curious.
I've found those half-ton, 3/4-ton, 1-ton categories to be a rough guide at best. It generally has no connection with reality. For my money, 'light', 'medium' and 'heavy' would be more apt, but the other way is more traditional.
That 5.7's a nice engine, but you really think your gonna have enough coins left after making this purchase to fill a second coin holder?
FWIW, on the aesthetic side, we do like the GMC grille slightly better (though it's really not important), and GMC has a new color of gray interior this year, called "pewter," that I think is a little darker (might hide stains better) than the old gray that Chevy still uses.
As for the coin try - you're right: ours will probably have a couple of pennies, a bobby pin, and a bottle cap or two. :-)
I am almost certain that GM is the only manufacturer with 2 wheelbases (1 for the normal van, 1 for the long van)
GM engine sizes are about the same (except for the 7.4 L (454). The V-6 is a smaller engine, but the extra space is outside (on the front of the engine) under the hood. The only advantage I can see is if you plan to do your own engine work. The 5.0L and 5.7 L (305 & 350) use the same engine block and the differences are ALL internal. In a nutshell... If you sat the 5.0 L & the 5.7 L engines oun and set them side beside in the floor, you couldn't tell the difference without taking them apart. The 4.3 L looks exactly like V-8 with the rear 2 cylinders "cut off". They then move the remaining 6 cylinders backwards to meet the transmision. The 7.4 L (454) however is what is known as a "big-block". The outside dimensions are a lot bigger, but AS FAR AS I KNOW, they still use the same engine cover.
GMC and Chevrolet vans are identical in EVERY aspect (except for trim and hood ornaments)
What I bought and why.
Chevy 2500 (3/4 ton) extended (155" WB) with the 5.7 L (350) V-8, trailering package and locking differential.
Why Chevy? Dodge vans don't have a frame and Ford is a little more expensive and the ford Tritan engine is junk. (Tritan engines use a plastic intake manifold that warps when the engine is left idling or driven at high RPM'S for a long time) Chevy costs less than GMC and more Chevy "goodies" (dress up/ performance parts) are available with the Chevy bow tie.
Why 3/4 ton? I will be doing extensive conversions (raised roof, sofa/bed wheelchair lift, etc) All those extras (don't forget the weight of your passangers) add up. Whenever you add weight to a heavy duty suspension, it smoothes out the ride and the extra load capacity will last longer and handle better than a lighter duty suspention.
Why the 155" wheelbase? Better ride quality and who can't use extra room? Something else to remember, is if the rear seats are behind the rear wheel, the rougher the ride for those passengers. (remember setting in the back of the bus as a kid?
Why the 5.7 L engine? More power means it works "easier" to get the job done, therefore it will last longer. The 5.0 L engine only gets 1 more MPG than the 5.7L (in fact, the 4.6 the 5.0 and the 5.7 all get within 2 MPG of each other. The 7.4 L engine has endless power and apettite for gas.
Why the locking differental? It's almost as good as 4WD. Both rear wheels need to get stuck before the van is stuck.
Why the trailering package? It adds engine oil and transmission oil coolers. This means longer oil life, more miles between services, longer lasting engine and transmission.
Please feel free to ask any questions.
Very nice. I'd like the exact same set-up.
I'm not sure if I need the 2500-series for the low weight I plan to haul, but I figure it couldn't hurt.
I'm looking at 10-yr old vans. I don't believe the GMC/Chev has changed much in that time. I think 3 to 4 thousand for say, late 80's 2500 with 350, trailering, locking diff is feasible.
What's your opinion of the older ones? What would you look out for?
Things to beware of in older vans...
Older vans (pre 93?) used a freon 12 A/C system. These systems are VERY expencive to repair and they will soon (3-10 years) be un-repairable at any cost. Then you need a new A/C system.
Plan on having the timing chain replaced around 100K miles. This repair will also require the A/C to be removed and put back.
Try to avoid a USED van that has towed a trailer. The previous owner MAY have pulled a trailer too heavy for that vehichle and caused some damage. (this happened to me once on a used pick-up. 6 weeks after I bought the truck, my transmision died. Cost me $400. 18 months later the engine spun a bearing. Another $600 I would never buy a used vehichle that even had a hitch)
There were some older vans (70's?) that had speakers mounted in the engine cover. These speakers were always having trouble, getting kicked, engine heat, vibration etc.
I always recommend buying used vehichles from the dealer. They know that type of vehichle and in many cases they know that exact vehichle and probably have it's service records from the real previous owner.
PS Never beleive the salesmen! They say they will let you call the previous owner... All you realy do is call another salesman at home and he tells you everything you want to hear (he babied it, serviced it every 3000 miles, never hauled or towed anything, etc.
company to build my perfect van. The question I
have is what is the best van to have converted?
Ford, Dodge, Chevy etc.??? It will mainly be used
as a kid mover with the occasional hauling and
trip. No towing in the near future but will
probably get the package just in case I get more
time to play. No extended length needed. Standard
length should be O.K. So now you can bombard me
with all your personal opinions on who is best.
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I have a greater concern about the conversion. There are some things I'd like to add to a van, but BOY do I NOT want to end up with one of those particle-board specials. I'll probably have to resort to using plain old studs and plywood, though that's not all that much better. What I'd really like is metal, shaped by a real sheet metal mechanic and welded and bolted on.
Weak but heavy. Made of poison. Get it wet and it swells like a sponge.
I'm not anti-wood necessarily, even in automotive applications. Wonderful low-production airframes are still being made from wood (very special stuff though), and good old Morgan still uses a lot of nice ash in their chassis, but the only use I know of for particle board where it's actually better than some of the competing materials is speaker cabinets. 'Course, in MY van, I wouldn't even want speaker cabinets made of that stuff.
Re: GM Engine sizes -
There's definitely a difference in engine covers to correspond with different engine sizes - whether the change happens between 4.3 and 5.0/5.7, or whether it's between 5.0/5.7 and 7.4, I don't know. But I'll let you know which cover we get with our 5.7 (2500 w/ short wheelbase) when it arrives... I was wondering, though, since GM has replaced the 5.7 in the new '99 Silverado/Sierra pickups with a new 5.3, if this new engine would eventually find its way into the vans, where it might free up more cabin space?
Re: Conversion -
Are you buying a window (passenger) van, or a cargo van and then converting it? The reason I ask is that all the conversions I see start out as cargo vans (almost invariably 1500s, too!). One of my pet peeves about it is the way the aftermarket windows look mismatched, because the sheetmetal on the cargo vans has scored window outlines for non-existent factory windows, and the aftermarket windows have totally different dimensions that clash with those outlines. It makes the aftermarket windows look, well, aftermarket - you know what I mean?
Anyway, what I'm curious about is that the brochures show a "conversion" van that has factory windows! It looks just like a factory passenger van, but has the custom fiberglass running board / bumper combo that the usual conversion vans have. I have no idea what the ineriors are like, though. Maybe they're ordered without seats and then customized just like the cargo van conversions. We ordered a 12-passenger "window" van, but it sure would be nice to be able to get those nice color-matched running boards!
Re: Locking differential -
Glad to see you like it - we ordered that, too! :-)
Re: Trailering package -
We didn't order that, as we intend to never tow anything, and all the brochures and websites say is that it includes a heavy-duty hitch and a wiring harness - they didn't say anything about engine oil or transmission oil coolers! Could you please tell me more about where you got that information - and do you really think it's worth changing our order to get it? Thanks!
Without the oil coolers, I'd say that you just need to be particularly diligent about changes and always use the best oils. Never take it to a Jiffy Lube type of place. Coolers are great, but for light use it's not bad to go without em.
The new range of engines in the pickups go with the new pickup chassis. I would figure that the new layout will eventually be used for vans, but I know of no plans to do it anytime soon.
A 2500 with a 5.7 and locking diff sounds like a really nice van.
I don't know the conversion you mentioned, but I agree that one of the bad things about most (and there are so many bad things about most) is the poorly designed window frames.
Conversions are incredibly profitable for a dealer and incredibly unprofitable for the owner at trade-in time. One good thing about this is that you can get used ones for the price of a regular, unconverted van. I would never buy a new one.
I can see running boards on a 1930's car, but on a van they seem to me pointless at best. If you just like the look of them, more power to ya, but I don't think they help anything.
Anyway, I think that the running boards that conversion vans have would be nice for helping the little kiddies climb up into the thing - though a left-side one is ridiculous, except for just below the driver's door. (Hmm, wonder if the left-side sliding doors that are all the rage in Minivan Land will ever make it to the full-sized vans - nah, probably not). I have seen a left-side running board, though, that's like a skirt for most of its length, with a step for the driver. And one conversion van I saw (I think the co. was Explorer) had running boards with a really nifty feature: they lined up with matching cladding on the doors. When the doors were closed, the running boards were covered by the doors' cladding to keep snow or dirt from piling up on them, and they looked like an extension of the cladding. When the doors were opened, the running boards would be revealed. It only works with a van that has a swing-out side door - which is what the conversion vans have to have in order to have room for one of those gigantic windows on the side (the window would interfere with a sliding-door track). We ordered a slider for our van.
As for the silly-looking conversion-van window frames - it wouldn't be so bad if GM wouldn't stamp the cargo-van sheetmetal with the grooved factory-window outlines in them. I guess it's more cost-efficient to use the same mold for both the window vans and the cargo vans. I've only seen one or two conversions (in Chevy/GMC brochures, not in real life) that configure their large windows in such a way as to conceal those telltale grooves (air-deflectors help). I would think that a conversion company that pays attention to this detail would be a higher-caliber company overall.
I know what you mean about conversion vans being profitable - some dealerships have dozens and dozens of 'em - all ligned up on the lot like a colorful candy-store window. Ask them about a factory window van, and forget it - they don't even want to bother ordering one! When we were Savana-shopping, we got the most positive responses from those dealers who were more "trucky"-truck-oriented (you know, commercial and even heavy-duty trucks), rather than those who focused on selling plush Yukons and conversion vans to non-commercial customers.
I have a certain soft spot for some of the earlier Dodges because I used to drive them for work. Now I lean toward GMC/Chev, though it's based more on reading and talking to people. I haven't driven them much.
I've driven a few 15-pass Fords, and they were fine, but 1. I'm kind of allergic to Ford. It's probably irrational and I should get over it. and 2. In the 15-pass (which is really 14 at best unless they're all very small), only the GMC/Chev has a dedicated chassis. The others weld in some frame members to stretch them - much weaker.
But you don't want the big guy, so I guess it's moot.
What kind of noise did you get in the GM? Engine? Wind? Road? Squeeks? Rattles? Was there carpeting and seats and all? I find it very odd. I wonder if they're all like that. Maybe that one had an outrageously low (numerically high) final drive.
You probably couldn't go too far wrong on any of them. I'd drive some more and confirm your impressions. Dodge vans used to have a good rep.They may be really good.
PS Boy, you guys are really makin me van-hungry. I'm gettin ready to go check the piggy bank.
Of the big three, the ones I see most often on the road as factory passenger vans are Fords. I rarely see a GMC Savana or Chevy Express in that configuration - though they are becoming pretty common as work/cargo vans and conversions. Some people have written that the high taillights are weird-looking, but I've gotten used to them by now. I also see Dodges from time to time, which I think are the most affordable of the three. As for the Ford, I've heard some comments regarding something about the way the front wheels are angled - has anyone else ever noticed that?
In a sentence... The oil coolers are standard in some configurations and part of the towing package in others.
Just check the specs. and remember an oil cooler can be added later for under $50 and a few minutes to install.
Whew! Thanks again!