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Full Sized Vans

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Comments

  • jmbljmbl Member Posts: 5
    pmorrison: You might try www.4adodge.com
  • RICHEZ98RICHEZ98 Member Posts: 1
    I'm considering a 98 Dodge Ram Van with a Glaval Conversion package. It's the longer van. This is my first experience with vans. I have not even ridden in one. Here's my question. It has front and rear AC, but no rear heat. Does anyone think this will be a major problem. We live in the midwest and it can get very cold here.
  • jboaterjboater Member Posts: 199
    Richez98,

    Typically, if the van has rear a/c it also has heat. It is usually one system controlled from the dash panel. You might want to double check the van you're considering.

    Jerry
  • pete2pete2 Member Posts: 2
    I can't decide. I want to buy a new cargo van. But, I can't decide between a Ford e150 or a Dodge Ram. I owned a Ford before and wouldn't hesitate to do so again...except...
    Are the new SOHC engines reliable? Can I get the near 300k mileage that I got out of the 4.9l/ 300hp straight 6cyl.? Is anyone having trouble with the 4.6l V8?
    I would appreciate any and all input.
    thanks,
    pete
  • jboaterjboater Member Posts: 199
    Pete2:

    It's only 10,000 miles I driven since purchase but the '97 Conversion van I drive is equipped with the 4.6 Triton. I haven't had any problem with it to date.

    Jerry
  • rich7rich7 Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I'm new to this forum. I am going to buy a new van for hauling mail. I have a 92 Chevy G20 now with a lot of miles on it. I have had very good reliability with the Chevy's. Since the strike is on at GM I am thinking of buying a Ford E-250. I think it comes standard with a 4.2 v6. Does anyone know if this is underpowered. I have a 4.3 v6 in my chevy and it has plenty of power. Thanks for your help.
  • FabiaFabia Member Posts: 1
    Read the posted comments and thought some general info on my '93 Chevy Beauville might help some folks. We bought it with almost 13,000 miles on it in May '94 and now have a total of 97,000 absolutely trouble free miles. It has a 350 engine with standard rear and heavy-duty trailering package. It is old generation, but it is proven. We have changed oil every 5,000 miles, changed brakes twice (we trailer a full-sized Airstream and I think that can be hard on the brakes) and that is all. Regarding Fords, we are not fans, my husband bought a new '94 F150 and it froze up on him at 43,000. Ford dealer said we needed a new engine at about $3,000 - out of warranty. A small neighborhood mechanic checked it out and found the timing chain had come apart and pieces had fallen inside to where they froze up the entire engine. He made the necessary repairs and got us back on the road for less than $1,700. Then he had the transmission go out and need to be replaced. That cost us another $1,500+, but at least it lasted the week it took to get rid of it and replace it with a new '98 Dodge Ram that he is in love with.
    Now, I am in the market for a new full sized van because I need more towing power and torque and we have decided to go with the 1-ton GMC or Chevy
    (same vehicles). They went through their shake down years and everything seems to be working well now. I expect to get the same service from it that I have gotten from my 1/2 ton Chevy. By the way, I am a 5/4" rather petite gal who has no trouble driving the full sized van and cannot give up the cargo area it provides. I tried going to the Suburban as it has a great towing reputation, but it would not give me the interior space or access to that space that the van does. I raise and show dogs (big ones) and they need to be accommodated inside the van when traveling. You would be surprised how many women drive these vehicles without any problem. Believe me, I do my share of mall parking also and have not had any dings or scrapes as a result. I am looking forward to getting my 1-ton van with the 454 engine and 4.1 rear! Also, always go for the rear air, it will help cool off the large interior much faster on a hot day, then you can cut it off and run with only the dash air quite comfortably. One last thing, I saw a recent report that claimed that full sized vans were the safest on the road, superior even to SUV's!!!
  • chairmakerchairmaker Member Posts: 7
    Having found a new '97 Ford Club Wagon XLT, 5.4, w/Chataeu, 8 passenger, still on the dealer's lot, we're considering buying it. Never having owned a Ford or a full-size van (of any make) before, I'm looking for comments, complaints and/or advice from any current or past owners. Thanks.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    Fabia wrote:

    > You would be surprised how many women drive
    > these vehicles without any problem. Believe me,
    > I do my share of mall parking also and have not
    > had any dings or scrapes as a result.

    I'm one of those women who was worried about being able to maneuver a full-sized van, let alone whether or not it would fit in our garage... until I dug up the specs on the '85 Buick LeSabre that I've been driving. Get this:

    Buick GM Van
    length 218.4" 218.8"
    width 78.0" 79.2"

    ...Hardly any difference at all! I guess most of the Buick's length is taken up by hood and trunk, whereas in the full-sized van, it's mostly passenger cabin. So I'm not so worried anymore.
  • penguinracerpenguinracer Member Posts: 1
    Chairmaker,
    As owner of a 95 Chateau van, it has given us quite good service. Mostly used for weekend trips, the reading lights are a real plus for backseat passengers on long trips. Two peeves. Had to replace front brakes (including rotors at 36K miles - pads had been replaced under warranty at ~10K and rotors turned). Rear climate control is suboptimal. Can't independently control front and rear temperature. When defrost is on, e.g. to clear a foggy windshield in the summer, rear heat goes on, unless you switch off rear fan control.
    Otherwise, it has been a charm.
    (Seems like the vehicle your considering has been sitting on the lot for quite a while.) When we were looking, we found some XLT's with lot's of options were more expensive than the next model up (Chateau) which had all of the options as standard features.
  • pontiacrulespontiacrules Member Posts: 3
    I'm looking into buying a GMC Savana with a
    raised roof conversion package. Can anyone
    tell me the relibility of these vans?

    Thanks,
    GMCRRULES (pontiacrules)
  • cmcgracmcgra Member Posts: 1
    I am buying a 89 ford explorer. are any suprises in store for me
  • maxcar1maxcar1 Member Posts: 1
    I've got a big family. What 1998-1999 makes/models seat 8 or more? How can I find a comprehensive list of cars with that seating capacity?

    Thanks...maxcar1
  • shulnjshulnj Member Posts: 1
    I have a question. I'm ordering a fully equipped GMC Savannah 99 15 passenger. According to the notes on Edmund's Rebates and Dealer Incentives page, there is a $500 rebate and a $1000 Dealer incentive available. When I contacted the dealers, they swear that there is only a $500 rebate, NO dealer incentive!
    Who's right, Edmund's or the GMC dealers?!?
    Please help ASAP.
    Thanx, Sheldon
  • mrh3108mrh3108 Member Posts: 41
    Funny,

    Autopedia shows the same $1000 rebate. My brief experience talking to dealers about "dealer cash" is they get all uptight and try to tell you their info is better than yours.

    I bet if you talk to more than one dealer you'll get multiple variations of the answer you are seeking.

    I've had some confirm dealer cash and others say it doesn't exist. One dealer went on to say that they only get dealer cash at the end of the model year. I knew better--he should have. Heck, some dealers didn't even know consumer rebates existed on the 99's until I told them to look it up.

    Try this web site:

    http://autopedia.com/html/RebateDlr.html

    Edmunds, please confirm the dealer cash is correct. While your at it, could you verify it is $1000 for the Chevy conversion (also known as YF-7). Thanks.
  • cherricherri Member Posts: 1
    I'm trying to figure out how dealers come up with their costs for conversion vans. I don't want to get into negotiations without knowing what the dealer invoice price was. I can find dealer prices for everything but conversion stuff. How/where do you research, so you can negotiate with some level of knowledge?

    Thanks.
  • WarrengWarreng Member Posts: 1
    I am looking to buy a cargo van for business uses. I am looking at (all 1998 models) the Ford Econoline 150, Chevy Express, and GMC Savana. Does anyone have any experience with either of these vehicles, or offer any advice on which is better?

    Thank you,

    Warren
  • LarryboyLarryboy Member Posts: 1
    I currently have a 1995 Windstar LX. We would like to trade for a 1998 new leftover Ford E-150 conversion van. My problem is that..1. I have a balance which is more than the Windstar is worth..2. I don't know what the dealer cost is on this van. I know that the invoice is about 25k and that the conversion list shows about 10k worth of upgrades. How do you calculate actual dealer dollars involved and am I pursuing a possible good deal since it is a 98 leftover?
  • stevevanmanstevevanman Member Posts: 1
    I have a similar question about conversion van pricing. I'm looking at a '93 Ford E150 with a Carriage Navigator conversion package but I've no data upon which to judge the fairness of the dealer's $12,950 asking price. Jerry (jboater, 2/16/98) mentioned N.A.D.A. conversion data for a '97 Dodge. I've not seen such data in the N.A.D.A. books I've found. Are there special books for conversions and, if so, how far back do they go?

    Thanks, Steve
  • jboaterjboater Member Posts: 199
    stevevanman,

    '93 Ford E150 Cargo whsle 7,225, retail 9,225.
    Carriage Navigator whsle 1,830, retail 2,320.

    Average mileage range for '93 is 65k to 70k

    Last model year for Carriage Conversions was 1995.
    No longer in production.

    NADA publishes a van/truck conversion and Limousine appraisal guide which is updated 3 times per year.

    Jerry
  • jekylljekyll Member Posts: 4
    We took delivery of a '99 E150 van two weeks ago. It is a loaded Tuscany Roadstar conversion, with all options you mention above. The curb weight is about 5650 pounds. We just traveled 900 miles from Georgia to Connecticut and the 5.4 liter barely flinched going through the hills of NC, VA, PA, and NY. Your E250 weighs a few hundred pounds more than an E150 as a base vehicle, but if not a conversion, should net about the same without a power rear seat.
  • pete2pete2 Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone Know?
    Is it possible to get swing-out, hinged windows,
    for the rear doors of a 1999 Ford E150?
  • antsepantsep Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone have experience about V8 diesel 6.2 liter?
    I have very bad experience with my GMC Vandura G2500 -87 (http://www.dlc.fi/~antsep/auto.jpg) with this unlucky diesel. I have had two very expensive repairs with its motor. First time the chamber went cut off and now the pistons stuck in. The van was driven about 250000 km and the motor was already the second in this vehicle, it was replaced by ex-owner before me, becouse the chamber was snapped then also. So I don't know how much kilometers this used motor have had, but however they made some repairs and service to it, when it was taken in use.

    Do you anybody know, what is the fault in the motor or what is the reason for this?

    I would like to trust in my vehicle, but I think I never can trust in such american products.
  • drfifedrfife Member Posts: 1
    I have a 99 Chevy Express Conversion. Love it.

    Is it possible to replace the existing climate control panel with the climate control panel from a Chevy Suburban?

    The Express does not allow you to control the compressor as the Suburban does. Also air at upper and lower vents only works in the A/C mode.

    I guess I am spoiled but the climate control system in this van is a relic from the 70's. Everything else is modern. GM, duh?

    Russell
  • newport61newport61 Member Posts: 4
    I am thinking about a ford E-350 wagon with the diesel engine, does anyone have any experience with this combination?
    Also I had a bad experience with a 90 Chevy conversion van done by Mark III, The Chevy problems ranged from roof and hood repainted 4 times under waranty, Cruise control replaced twice, Anti lock brake module once, rear end problems and finally a leak in the AC core. Also after about 60K miles parts of the conversion package broke and came off, final problem was half the ceiling falling while driving. I traded this vehicle in 96 for a winstar but miss the room of the big van.
  • walshjwalshj Member Posts: 5
    Wow, nice to find a forum for full size vans. Certainly it's a forgotten segment within the automotive industry. My wife and I just had our fifth child and no longer fit in our Villager minivan. Actually, I we didn't fit very well after number four:) Anyway, we are actively researching full size vans and are leaning towards the Chevy Express/GMC Savanna twins. We are considering a new 1/2 ton 1500 series with the 5.0 liter Vortec engine and would like to hear from anyone who has had experience or just an opinion about this vehicle. We will tow a small pop-up camper that weighs about #2000. Thanks for your help!
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    I'm interested in the same van; probably the same engine. I hope some people post their experiences.

    This is a great forum sometimes, but it gets overrun with conversion vans, which have 2 other topic areas of their own.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    We just ordered a Savana two weeks ago - anticipating delivery some time in late March. It's a 2500 (has to be 2500 to get 12 seats - 1500s only have up to 8 seats). Has anyone else noticed how the configuration of the center console ("doghouse," whatever - the big thingy sticking out from the middle of the dash with the storage bin and two cupholders, which covers the part of the engine that protrudes into the cabin) *changes* with engine size? We did a double-take when different brochures for the Express and Savana from different years showed differences in that console. We finally figured it out - look at the Express pages of Chevy's website and find where you click to show different seating configurations. Then watch the center console change sizes! (More seats = bigger engine.) :-)
  • joe58joe58 Member Posts: 1
    I am thinking about buying a extended cargo van for my business, in all the reports the only prices and information I can find are on the passenger type vans. Where can I get a fair report on all 3 manufactures extended cargo vans.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Joe:
    Good question. Here, I hope.

    Midas:
    I like that 12-passenger van a lot. I used to drive rented ones pretty regularly, and the extended wheelbase provides a really decent ride, for a truck.

    For what it's worth, I've heard that only GM has a dedicated chassis for their 12-passenger vans; that the other manufacturers use the same chassis for both wheelbases, varying only the side frame rails and increasing rear overhang a lot, to provide the added length. Maybe somebody here knows whether this is true. At any rate, I lean toward GM, particularly GMC.

    The engine cover must vary with engine size, no? Maybe they used the larger engines for the greater number of seats for the brochure even though you could get the 302 with 12 seats. Maybe they assume that you'd want the bigger engines. Maybe they want to train your brain to request the larger engine when you make the purchase.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    The engines available on these vans (depending on tonnage and seating capacity, though one can upgrade to a larger engine than what comes standard) are: 4.3L V6, 5.0L V8, 5.7L V8, 7.4L V8, and 6.5L diesel. Our 12-seater 2500 comes with the 5.7L standard - I'm guessing that means the larger engine cover (with an extra coin tray above the cupholders), but I won't know for sure 'till we get our van.

    C13 - why do you prefer GMC over Chevy? Just curious.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Nicer logo. Plus 'GMC' sort of says "truck", where 'Chevy' says "cheapest domestic car you can get". I'm not saying it has anything to do with logic or rationality or anything. It's strictly an aesthetic / emotional thing. On a more serious note, the GMC's generally have a little better resale value, but you're also liable to pay a couple hundred more going in, so it usually balances out.

    I've found those half-ton, 3/4-ton, 1-ton categories to be a rough guide at best. It generally has no connection with reality. For my money, 'light', 'medium' and 'heavy' would be more apt, but the other way is more traditional.

    That 5.7's a nice engine, but you really think your gonna have enough coins left after making this purchase to fill a second coin holder?
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    We went for GMC over Chevy because our local GMC dealer has an excellent service reputation, while our local Chevy dealer has a lousy one.

    FWIW, on the aesthetic side, we do like the GMC grille slightly better (though it's really not important), and GMC has a new color of gray interior this year, called "pewter," that I think is a little darker (might hide stains better) than the old gray that Chevy still uses.

    As for the coin try - you're right: ours will probably have a couple of pennies, a bobby pin, and a bottle cap or two. :-)
  • twc_detwc_de Member Posts: 10
    As a professional mechanic, I know engines. I did however, still research the Chevy/GMC vans before I purchased mine. (Read my logical decision making process at the end of this note.)

    I am almost certain that GM is the only manufacturer with 2 wheelbases (1 for the normal van, 1 for the long van)

    GM engine sizes are about the same (except for the 7.4 L (454). The V-6 is a smaller engine, but the extra space is outside (on the front of the engine) under the hood. The only advantage I can see is if you plan to do your own engine work. The 5.0L and 5.7 L (305 & 350) use the same engine block and the differences are ALL internal. In a nutshell... If you sat the 5.0 L & the 5.7 L engines oun and set them side beside in the floor, you couldn't tell the difference without taking them apart. The 4.3 L looks exactly like V-8 with the rear 2 cylinders "cut off". They then move the remaining 6 cylinders backwards to meet the transmision. The 7.4 L (454) however is what is known as a "big-block". The outside dimensions are a lot bigger, but AS FAR AS I KNOW, they still use the same engine cover.

    GMC and Chevrolet vans are identical in EVERY aspect (except for trim and hood ornaments)

    What I bought and why.
    Chevy 2500 (3/4 ton) extended (155" WB) with the 5.7 L (350) V-8, trailering package and locking differential.

    Why Chevy? Dodge vans don't have a frame and Ford is a little more expensive and the ford Tritan engine is junk. (Tritan engines use a plastic intake manifold that warps when the engine is left idling or driven at high RPM'S for a long time) Chevy costs less than GMC and more Chevy "goodies" (dress up/ performance parts) are available with the Chevy bow tie.

    Why 3/4 ton? I will be doing extensive conversions (raised roof, sofa/bed wheelchair lift, etc) All those extras (don't forget the weight of your passangers) add up. Whenever you add weight to a heavy duty suspension, it smoothes out the ride and the extra load capacity will last longer and handle better than a lighter duty suspention.

    Why the 155" wheelbase? Better ride quality and who can't use extra room? Something else to remember, is if the rear seats are behind the rear wheel, the rougher the ride for those passengers. (remember setting in the back of the bus as a kid?

    Why the 5.7 L engine? More power means it works "easier" to get the job done, therefore it will last longer. The 5.0 L engine only gets 1 more MPG than the 5.7L (in fact, the 4.6 the 5.0 and the 5.7 all get within 2 MPG of each other. The 7.4 L engine has endless power and apettite for gas.

    Why the locking differental? It's almost as good as 4WD. Both rear wheels need to get stuck before the van is stuck.

    Why the trailering package? It adds engine oil and transmission oil coolers. This means longer oil life, more miles between services, longer lasting engine and transmission.

    Please feel free to ask any questions.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    twc_de

    Very nice. I'd like the exact same set-up.

    I'm not sure if I need the 2500-series for the low weight I plan to haul, but I figure it couldn't hurt.

    I'm looking at 10-yr old vans. I don't believe the GMC/Chev has changed much in that time. I think 3 to 4 thousand for say, late 80's 2500 with 350, trailering, locking diff is feasible.

    What's your opinion of the older ones? What would you look out for?
  • twc_detwc_de Member Posts: 10
    I am not 100% sure of the rear suspention of the older Chevy vans. The new vans do have a 2 stage rear leaf suspention. What this means is there is "extra" leaf springs that are attached to the axle but not to the frame. When the van is putting along with little or no load, the van is actually riding on a "heavy duty 1/2 ton" suspention (slightly harsher ride than the regular 1/2 ton van, but still not a harsh ride. As the weight increases in the van, it settles down on the extra springs for support. At that point the ride MAY become a little harsher, until more weight is added to effectively "use" the extra springs.

    Things to beware of in older vans...

    Older vans (pre 93?) used a freon 12 A/C system. These systems are VERY expencive to repair and they will soon (3-10 years) be un-repairable at any cost. Then you need a new A/C system.

    Plan on having the timing chain replaced around 100K miles. This repair will also require the A/C to be removed and put back.

    Try to avoid a USED van that has towed a trailer. The previous owner MAY have pulled a trailer too heavy for that vehichle and caused some damage. (this happened to me once on a used pick-up. 6 weeks after I bought the truck, my transmision died. Cost me $400. 18 months later the engine spun a bearing. Another $600 I would never buy a used vehichle that even had a hitch)

    There were some older vans (70's?) that had speakers mounted in the engine cover. These speakers were always having trouble, getting kicked, engine heat, vibration etc.

    I always recommend buying used vehichles from the dealer. They know that type of vehichle and in many cases they know that exact vehichle and probably have it's service records from the real previous owner.

    PS Never beleive the salesmen! They say they will let you call the previous owner... All you realy do is call another salesman at home and he tells you everything you want to hear (he babied it, serviced it every 3000 miles, never hauled or towed anything, etc.
  • familyvanfamilyvan Member Posts: 8
    I am working with a local (L.A. CA.) conversion

    company to build my perfect van. The question I

    have is what is the best van to have converted?

    Ford, Dodge, Chevy etc.??? It will mainly be used

    as a kid mover with the occasional hauling and

    trip. No towing in the near future but will

    probably get the package just in case I get more

    time to play. No extended length needed. Standard

    length should be O.K. So now you can bombard me

    with all your personal opinions on who is best.



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    This is what I wanted to know and I was leaning toward GMC/Chev at the time. twc_de has me convinced now that that's the right choice, though their advantage is smaller if you don't need the long whjeelbase.

    I have a greater concern about the conversion. There are some things I'd like to add to a van, but BOY do I NOT want to end up with one of those particle-board specials. I'll probably have to resort to using plain old studs and plywood, though that's not all that much better. What I'd really like is metal, shaped by a real sheet metal mechanic and welded and bolted on.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Great stuff for a vehicle, eh?

    Weak but heavy. Made of poison. Get it wet and it swells like a sponge.

    I'm not anti-wood necessarily, even in automotive applications. Wonderful low-production airframes are still being made from wood (very special stuff though), and good old Morgan still uses a lot of nice ash in their chassis, but the only use I know of for particle board where it's actually better than some of the competing materials is speaker cabinets. 'Course, in MY van, I wouldn't even want speaker cabinets made of that stuff.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    Thanks for your posts! I do have a couple of questions/comments:

    Re: GM Engine sizes -

    There's definitely a difference in engine covers to correspond with different engine sizes - whether the change happens between 4.3 and 5.0/5.7, or whether it's between 5.0/5.7 and 7.4, I don't know. But I'll let you know which cover we get with our 5.7 (2500 w/ short wheelbase) when it arrives... I was wondering, though, since GM has replaced the 5.7 in the new '99 Silverado/Sierra pickups with a new 5.3, if this new engine would eventually find its way into the vans, where it might free up more cabin space?

    Re: Conversion -

    Are you buying a window (passenger) van, or a cargo van and then converting it? The reason I ask is that all the conversions I see start out as cargo vans (almost invariably 1500s, too!). One of my pet peeves about it is the way the aftermarket windows look mismatched, because the sheetmetal on the cargo vans has scored window outlines for non-existent factory windows, and the aftermarket windows have totally different dimensions that clash with those outlines. It makes the aftermarket windows look, well, aftermarket - you know what I mean?

    Anyway, what I'm curious about is that the brochures show a "conversion" van that has factory windows! It looks just like a factory passenger van, but has the custom fiberglass running board / bumper combo that the usual conversion vans have. I have no idea what the ineriors are like, though. Maybe they're ordered without seats and then customized just like the cargo van conversions. We ordered a 12-passenger "window" van, but it sure would be nice to be able to get those nice color-matched running boards!

    Re: Locking differential -

    Glad to see you like it - we ordered that, too! :-)

    Re: Trailering package -

    We didn't order that, as we intend to never tow anything, and all the brochures and websites say is that it includes a heavy-duty hitch and a wiring harness - they didn't say anything about engine oil or transmission oil coolers! Could you please tell me more about where you got that information - and do you really think it's worth changing our order to get it? Thanks!
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    I'll throw my thoughts in too.

    Without the oil coolers, I'd say that you just need to be particularly diligent about changes and always use the best oils. Never take it to a Jiffy Lube type of place. Coolers are great, but for light use it's not bad to go without em.

    The new range of engines in the pickups go with the new pickup chassis. I would figure that the new layout will eventually be used for vans, but I know of no plans to do it anytime soon.

    A 2500 with a 5.7 and locking diff sounds like a really nice van.

    I don't know the conversion you mentioned, but I agree that one of the bad things about most (and there are so many bad things about most) is the poorly designed window frames.

    Conversions are incredibly profitable for a dealer and incredibly unprofitable for the owner at trade-in time. One good thing about this is that you can get used ones for the price of a regular, unconverted van. I would never buy a new one.

    I can see running boards on a 1930's car, but on a van they seem to me pointless at best. If you just like the look of them, more power to ya, but I don't think they help anything.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    C13 - Hey, nice to see you here as a shopper, for a change... though I do enjoy and appreciate your input from the salesman's point of view over at the Smart Shopper conference! :-)

    Anyway, I think that the running boards that conversion vans have would be nice for helping the little kiddies climb up into the thing - though a left-side one is ridiculous, except for just below the driver's door. (Hmm, wonder if the left-side sliding doors that are all the rage in Minivan Land will ever make it to the full-sized vans - nah, probably not). I have seen a left-side running board, though, that's like a skirt for most of its length, with a step for the driver. And one conversion van I saw (I think the co. was Explorer) had running boards with a really nifty feature: they lined up with matching cladding on the doors. When the doors were closed, the running boards were covered by the doors' cladding to keep snow or dirt from piling up on them, and they looked like an extension of the cladding. When the doors were opened, the running boards would be revealed. It only works with a van that has a swing-out side door - which is what the conversion vans have to have in order to have room for one of those gigantic windows on the side (the window would interfere with a sliding-door track). We ordered a slider for our van.

    As for the silly-looking conversion-van window frames - it wouldn't be so bad if GM wouldn't stamp the cargo-van sheetmetal with the grooved factory-window outlines in them. I guess it's more cost-efficient to use the same mold for both the window vans and the cargo vans. I've only seen one or two conversions (in Chevy/GMC brochures, not in real life) that configure their large windows in such a way as to conceal those telltale grooves (air-deflectors help). I would think that a conversion company that pays attention to this detail would be a higher-caliber company overall.

    I know what you mean about conversion vans being profitable - some dealerships have dozens and dozens of 'em - all ligned up on the lot like a colorful candy-store window. Ask them about a factory window van, and forget it - they don't even want to bother ordering one! When we were Savana-shopping, we got the most positive responses from those dealers who were more "trucky"-truck-oriented (you know, commercial and even heavy-duty trucks), rather than those who focused on selling plush Yukons and conversion vans to non-commercial customers.
  • familyvanfamilyvan Member Posts: 8
    The van I am looking to do is with a sliding side door and possibly even a 1 piece rear door. The conversion companies I am talking with laugh when I say I want this but they will do it anyway. It will also have fiberglass running board down both sides that also wrap up over the fenders. The flats on the running boards are only at the door areas so the right and left are different. I am also having 2 benches custom made. The rear at 66" will seat 4 and the middle at 49" will seat 3. They will also fold back (manually) to make into a bed or flat area where I can throw so ply wood or something else quickly in I need to haul. The reason I am going for the manual folding benches is because they have nothing underneith so I can also have the extra storage under. I inquired about the windows because you can order a cargo van with the factory windows but the conversion guys said that thier kits are set up for the bigger windows so if you wanted the factory windows they could do it but it would probably end up being more expensive because they would have to do everything from scratch. I still want to know what van I should use. I like the Dodge because they are a bit smaller than the rest but the style is very old and not much has changed in who knows how many years. It did drive nice. The chevy seemed real big and RV like but had the new widder back doors. It was also real noisy inside. The Ford has absolutly no leg room on the front passenger side. SO WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS ON WHAT ONE IS BEST. I am also on #520 if you want to inquire there on your opinions.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Wow. A real custom job.

    I have a certain soft spot for some of the earlier Dodges because I used to drive them for work. Now I lean toward GMC/Chev, though it's based more on reading and talking to people. I haven't driven them much.

    I've driven a few 15-pass Fords, and they were fine, but 1. I'm kind of allergic to Ford. It's probably irrational and I should get over it. and 2. In the 15-pass (which is really 14 at best unless they're all very small), only the GMC/Chev has a dedicated chassis. The others weld in some frame members to stretch them - much weaker.

    But you don't want the big guy, so I guess it's moot.

    What kind of noise did you get in the GM? Engine? Wind? Road? Squeeks? Rattles? Was there carpeting and seats and all? I find it very odd. I wonder if they're all like that. Maybe that one had an outrageously low (numerically high) final drive.

    You probably couldn't go too far wrong on any of them. I'd drive some more and confirm your impressions. Dodge vans used to have a good rep.They may be really good.

    PS Boy, you guys are really makin me van-hungry. I'm gettin ready to go check the piggy bank.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    Familyvan - AFAIK, the only company that does (or at least did) a one-piece rear door is Dodge. One advantage is that you don't have that center window pillar interfering with your rear view. The design is older than that of GM or Ford, but they've been forced to make significant improvements in the last year or two - to compete with Ford's and GM's recent total re-designs ('92 and '96, respectively, I think).

    Of the big three, the ones I see most often on the road as factory passenger vans are Fords. I rarely see a GMC Savana or Chevy Express in that configuration - though they are becoming pretty common as work/cargo vans and conversions. Some people have written that the high taillights are weird-looking, but I've gotten used to them by now. I also see Dodges from time to time, which I think are the most affordable of the three. As for the Ford, I've heard some comments regarding something about the way the front wheels are angled - has anyone else ever noticed that?
  • familyvanfamilyvan Member Posts: 8
    I went directly from the Dodge dealer after driving a 1999 Passenger van to the Chevy Dealer and drove theirs. I immediatly notices the bigger front windshield and boxier configuration. When I started to drive the Chevy it was much noisier. I later asked one of the conversion guys who doesn't like Chevy anymore why he doesn't like Chevy anymore and he said that with the new frame design on the 99 it is much noisier. I then remembered that I also had noticed the noise. The noise is hard to explain. It was not really an engine or ground noise it was just an over all everything louder noise. And it was not just a little it was a lot!
  • twc_detwc_de Member Posts: 10
    The oil cooler is only on the smaller (maybe only the V-6) engines. The coolers "become" standard on the larger engines, higher GVWR's, etc.

    In a sentence... The oil coolers are standard in some configurations and part of the towing package in others.

    Just check the specs. and remember an oil cooler can be added later for under $50 and a few minutes to install.
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    Thanks for the Custom Craft info - now you've got me thinking about getting running boards and maybe pleated window shades for our 12-passenger van (we ordered it 4 1/2 weeks ago; only about 5 1/2 more weeks to go - that is if GM's bug-infested new vehicle-ordering computer system doesn't get us!) - and how 'bout those new TV/VCPs that fold down from the ceiling without the need for a high-top - where to get one of those? I'll start checking around w/ Custom Craft and the other converters, as well as local shops - anyone have any recommendations in the greater NY area?
  • midasgoldmidasgold Member Posts: 65
    You took the words right out of my mouth about the oil coolers being standard - I just studied GMC's "1999 Trailering Guide"; it mentions an engine oil cooler (code: KC4) as an option for some of the other GMC trucks. For the Savana, however, it says: "Base cooling system for each powertrain includes all content required to attain maximum trailer rating. No optional cooling equipment is required."

    Whew! Thanks again!
  • llounge125llounge125 Member Posts: 7
    I am brand new to all this. What is the difference between a conversion van and a factory window passenger van? Thanks.
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