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2010 Ford Taurus

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Comments

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    More like apples and berries. The 328i is a fine little RWD car. Like the Taurus, it has 4 wheels and 4 doors. It has superior handling, due it its much smaller size (it barely makes it into the compact class), rear drive and BMW tuning dynamics. It has a tight interior dimensions with a rather spartan look at the leatherette price point. It is not particularly quiet. At base price, it is not well-equipped, but if you could find one there, it would be a satisfying ride for those who appreciate its merits. It includes 16-inch wheels, heated side mirrors, a sunroof, vinyl upholstery, automatic climate control and a 10-speaker CD stereo with an auxiliary input jack. Power seats or anything else requires the expensive premium package.

    The Taurus on the other hand is a full-size FWD sedan that starts at $25K list and usually goes for less than sticker. It has a quiet cabin and enormous trunk. Standard equipment on the strippo includes 17-inch alloy wheels, automatic headlights, keyless entry, SecuriCode entry pad, full power accessories, cruise control, 6-way power driver seat, 60/40 split-folding rear seat, a tilt/telescoping steering column, steering wheel audio controls and 6-speaker stereo with CD/MP3 player and auxiliary audio jack. It gets better mpg than the little BMW (which requires premium fuel), and has a higher safety rating as well.

    Now, you can compare and cross-shop any two models you want, but most people wouldn't see these two as competing on price alone, let alone class, intended use, capacity, etc. The Taurus will more often be cross-shopped with cars like the Avalon, the Chrysler 300, Chevy Impala, Buick Lacrosse and Lucerne.
  • So, anyone with AWD 2010 Taurus...how did it do in the snow?
  • I have a 2010 MKS with AWD - same system as the Taurus. It gets around like a mountain goat as far as traction is concerned - excellent grip and very confidence inspiring.

    Two things could be a bit problematic in heavy snow. The low front valance would become a snowplow in deep stuff or drifts - virtually any new passenger car would have that problem. Also, the way the lower doors are designed on the MKS and the Taurus leaves an indentation below the doors that trap snow and slush. If that freezes, opening the doors could be more difficult.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    By the way, the Taurus is two feet longer than the 328i. It is a foot longer than the 5 series BMWs. The Taurus is even longer than the 7 series BMW. Comparing the Taurus to the 328i is just odd.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    For all the naysayers who said that Ford's changes to the Taurus (both stylistically and the manner marketed) would not make a difference in the historically abysmal residuals...
    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/22/ford-brags-about-largest-residual-value-incre- ase-in-industry/
  • podpod Posts: 176
    I like Ford and have owned Ford cars for the last 25 years. This "projected" residual value rise would need to be tethered to the increased purchase price to be a meaningful number. 2010 non-base Tauruses have increased about $2k in price over earlier model years (becasue of improvements). Increased purchase price should result in increased residual value.
    And, of course, it is a projection for 3 years out. Projections are tricky, especially this early into the 2010 sales season.
    This is certainly worth highlighting by Ford (any even suggestive good news should be trumpeted) but I doubt it is a reliable or even meaningful stat unless the adjustment for purchase price is factored in. Whether it is or not isn't stated in the article.
    Predicting 2013 or 2016 values when it isn't even 2010 is a risky business.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Well of course the adjustment in purchase price is figured in. The fact is (and most people don't seem to realize) is that you don't get high resale, unless the vehicle sells for something reasonably close to list price. If a vehicle was very heavily discounted and loaded up with rebates and incentives (like the 09 Taurus), this always depresses resale. You have artificially created a market for a less expensive car than the car was designed to be. Detroit did this for years.

    However, resale is given more weight than it should have. If you pay far less at the beginning, of course the car will lose far more value as a percent of its list price (the way resale is usually calculated). But given that you paid less at the beginning, you SHOULD get less at sale or trade. Your actual cash outlay buy-to-sell is often no more with a car that has high resale v. low. Often, the buyer of a car with poor resale (if they caught all the front end discounts unavailable to the buyer of a conveyance with high resale) will come out money ahead. A high residual value is only important if you paid a BMW price in the first place. But car buyers don't get that, so the manufacturers will continue to crow about projected high residuals.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    Why do you say "of course" the purchase price is factored in. I read the article many times and there is no mention of purchase price only "resale value" and "residual value" neither of which factors the purchase price.
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    I read the article carefully as well and made the same assessment. The analysis specifically seeks to associate a discrete dollar value with the residual value of the car and then compare that dollar value to prior models and to competing current models.

    This is an entirely flawed analysis for the exact reason that "pod" identifies. Residual value is only meaningful as compared to initial purchase price. An increase in residiual value as a percentage of actual purchase price is what would be important here, or better yet, a comparison of the projected total cost of ownership over the first three years of the vehicle (assuming liquidation after year 3).

    Unfortunately, this is fairly representative of the type of analysis conducted in these types of articles, which is to say there's a reason they were journalism majors and not finance majors.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    But it is all moot, poodog, because even though you have a good point about actual purchase price, residuals and resale values are always figured against list price. That is because there is no good way to easily figure anything on actual purchase prices; those data are not readily available in aggregate form. And comparisons of total cost of ownership after three years also suffer from not figuring in actual purchase prices.

    There are high resale value cars like certain models of the Mini Cooper that sell over list. That is not figured in the "true cost of ownership" either. Bottom line, you more or less get what you pay for. If a model is in high demand or short supply, it will sell for at or near or even over list price. Used versions of it will sell for more as well. But since your outlay was more at the beginning, you damn well better get more at trade. However, if you buy a Lincoln Town Car for $12,000 off list price, you better expect it isn't going to be worth very much in three or five years. Usually, in the end you haven't lost anything, since your initial outlay was a bargain, compared to that Lexus that is now commanding $10,000 more five years later.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    Ford did very well in January. Deservedly, they have good cars including the Taurus line. However Taurus was the second lowest ford model in actual sales at 3768 units (only the Lincoln MKsomething did worse). This is up 121% from armageddon January 2009 which is like saying up from almost nothing. I think the price point for the non-SHO models is $3-4K too high and predict rebates, driver loyalty and other incentives will reduce the cost by about this amount by the end of the year and if that happens and I can tolerate the limited rear view and mamouth center console I will probably buy one. Its not the car,which is good, it is the price point that limits present purchases.
  • Could not agree more. Many have said this, but the fanbois just don't want to listen. A 30K+ Taurus is a very hard sell. Especially with the not-so-stellar 3.5L Duratec. The SHO is an excellent vehicle, but $45,000 ?!?!? Good luck with that.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    I don't think you'll see any big increase in incentives because Ford is no longer playing the volume game. You don't see a lot of Taurus' on the lots because they're matching production to actual demand and not creating artificial demand. And they should be reaping a nice profit on the ones they do sell. Throwing cash on the hood only helps volume, not profits and it kills resale values.

    What some of the non-fanbois fail to realize is that this isn't the old Taurus fleet queen. It isn't competing against the Camry and the Accord. It's in a different market segment now with the Fusion doing the dirty work in the midsize arena.

    So how did the Taurus fare against the Avalon last month? Or the 300C? Or the Buick LaCrosse/Lucerne? That is the competition.

  • Ok, Automobile says LaCrosse sales shot up an impressive 185 percent to 4246 vehicles. RTT News says sales of the Lexus ES350 was 2923 units, up 6.6% over January last year.

    Better then the ES350 which it competes with on price just larger.

    link title
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    Toyota Avalon sales Jan. 2010 - 944, down 56% from Jan. 2009..
    Chrysler 300 was 1654 vs. 2200 a year ago.

    Taurus seems to be holding its own against the direct competitors.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    I hadn't appreciated that strategy. If Ford is moving the Taurus to a more upscale category and intending the Fusion to fill from below that makes sense. If that is the case it may have been a good idea to change the name and leave the Taurus designation in the history books. This is obviously the case with the SHO model but I hadn't considered that they wanted to move the whole Taurus line. Since I didn't know ( an interested present Sable/Taurus owner) I wonder how many new to Ford buyers will shop the non-SHO Tauruses and find a sticker shock experience.
    I suppose I would prefer it to a similarly equipped Chrysler 300 or even an Avalon but, as outlined in earlier posts, I am looking for a reliable basic car not a Luxoliner with electronic doo-dads. My Sable has given 138,000 essentially trouble free miles and I will examine the Fusion and the new Focus when it appears. If I had to buy right now I would lean toward the new Hyundai Sonata.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    How could a Taurus shopper not know about the Fusion?
  • podpod Posts: 176
    You don't know when to stop being chippy, even when someone agrees with you and says you raised a good point. I think you should chill out. Maybe they don't read car magzines. Maybe they just stopped in to look. Maybe it's too small. Maybe they don't like it. Maybe you're right and everyone should think like you. Maybe they have a ten year old taurus and are satisfied. Maybe your question is a rhetorical one intended to be irritating. The are lots of possibilities. Not everyone is as all knowing about the Ford line as you are. Maybe they are from Mars.
  • Maybe they are from Mars.

    Who cares then if they are from Mars. It would be really hard to get then financed anyway! :D

    Thank you tip the waiters I'm here all week...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    I just find it next to impossible that a Taurus owner thinking about a new Taurus would not know that the Fusion exists as a smaller, cheaper alternative. You don't need to read car magazines - ads are everywhere including television. Not to mention the first thing the salesman would do if they balked at the Taurus price is show them the cheaper Fusion.

    I'm not talking about the average person on the street. I'm talking about someone who is seriously shopping for a new car. I just don't see someone walking into a Ford dealer, looking at the Taurus sticker, claiming that it's way too expensive and walking out without looking at a Fusion which is closer to the old Taurus than the new one.

    Sorry if that comes across as chippy, but I can't stand it when people compare apples and oranges.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    I think the qualifying phrase you missed is "non Ford owners". No matter.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    If you are looking for a quiet, solid, good-looking car with plenty of power, try the Taurus Sel and don't go for all the electronic stuff. The Taurus at any level is much more car than the Fusion. We have a Sel with awd (not necessary in many climates), Sync with reverse sensing, leather with passenger power seat. We paid $28,700 with rebates and Costco pricing---a true bargain, believe me., especially with 0% financing. We have everything we need. A fwd is less, of course. It is a big car and happiest on a freeway where we are getting excellent mileage. The level of refinement is above that of the Fusion, but a Fusion is more fun to park and drive in town. We also have a Freestyle which we like very much, even with its roaring CVT which always knows what it's doing.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    I wish the new products well. There are plenty of reviews from new or recent owners available on the forums. I wanted to extoll the trouble free history of my 2000 Mercury Sable now ten years and 140,000 miles old.
    1) no major unexpected repair charges except a fuel pump at 100,000.
    2) one brake job at 90,000 miles
    3) no exhaust system issues except new oxygen sensors at 120,000. No need for pipe repair or replacement!
    4) no electrical issues at all. No bulbs have even burned out.
    5) not a spot of rust.
    6) good fuel economy, even now 23 mixed and 31 highway with a V6.
    7) no leaks of oil, ps fluid or any other fluid.
    8) one battery replacement at about 100,000 miles
    9) Still retains about 85% of its get up an go. No major loss of power. I would expect a 140,000 engine to have lost some compression, etc. I still have all I need.
    10) no CV joint issues ever
    Are there some minor issues with interior wear, etc. Sure. But it is a trooper and I want to give a ten year review as testimony to Ford's excellent reliability which I expect has improved even more during the decade since I bought this one. Do not be skeptical about Ford quality. It has been a much better car than my prior BMW320i and Toyota Supra.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Had a chance to stop by the auto show. The new Taurus seemed like a really nice car. The only problem was that all the Taurus on display had sunroofs and they had very little headroom. I'm between 6'2 and 6'3 and my head was literally plastered against the roof. Not sure why they would have such low headroom in a big car? A lot of the Ford's on display had sunroofs. I know some people like them, but most cars you see in parking lots don't actually have them. It made the products seem cramped and also jacked up the sticker prices on the display vehicles. Not sure that was wise. The new Fusion was also nice and not quite as tight in headspace with the sunroof even though it is smaller and less expenssive than the Taurus.
  • Just a guess but those same Taurus models also probably had power seats. Those seats were probably powered off because the cars were shut down for the auto show. The seats are most likely 8 way adjustable so you can lower the seats down a good bit. I think Ford just tool the Volvo seats out of the S80 and put slightly different frames and upholstery so there should be three or so inches of height adjustment for both front seats.

    There is a good portion of the population that will not buy a car without a sunroof. I know you may not see them but I do see them while selling cars. No hole in the roof means no sale.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    What you say about headroom with the sun roof is true. We don't use sunroofs so we didn't order it. That's why it's so important to know what you want-need and try things out before buying. I have bought a car off the lot only once in my life, although the waiting was sometimes irritating.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Yeah, the Taurus on display had power seats, but they were connected. Lowering the seat all the way down my hair still seemed to slightly brush the ceiling and then the legroom was reduced. Disappointing for a big car. I think Ford may need to add some recent college grads to their design staff because kids in college are often 6 footers any more it seems and I think they could use some taller executives or something to preclude issues like this from happening. Americans are getting larger so they design a new larger Taurus with less space for the driver than in the previous mid sized Taurus??? Heck, the Accord has way more room and its smaller and more economical. I don't get it? When I'm in the market I may still take a look at it without the sunroof, but I was kind of let down and turned off which is a shame because the rest of the car seemed nice.
  • I wonder how many car-buyers are sharing my thoughts...my wife and I really like the new Taurus...and really like the upscale options for the seats...but we wonder if we will be better off waiting until the end of the '10 model year...for one specific reason: price. I cannot help but remember the large incentives that the summer of '09 brought to car-buyers...and the low-30's 2010 Taurus...in July-August...could it be a 27-28K Taurus at that time? I love the car...I really love the car...I'm just not sure it is worth what it now is selling for....
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    Possible, but doubtful unless you happen to find one that's been sitting for a long time. Ford seems to be intent on limiting production and limiting incentives rather than throwing big cash on the hood.

    A vehicle is worth what people will pay and a fair number of folks are paying current prices. Here is a question - what do you think is better for the same money or just as good for significantly less money? Or do you think all similar vehicles are overpriced?
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    I don't seem to see a lot of these on the road. I don't know if that is by intent or if Ford is anxious to get the new Explorer in the Chicago plant to jack up volume and efficiency? I've seen some ads with a $1000 bonus on the new Taurus, but for all I know it is just some dealer gimmick offsetting little off the sticker.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    They're simply matching production to demand - they're not artificially increasing or decreasing supply. If you look to the right of this page you should see the 2010 Taurus advertisement with 0% APR plus $1K cash back. Also consider that the 2011 model will not be very different from the 2010 model so buyers won't see much difference on the lot.
  • akirby: your points are all good. There are elements of the Taurus that my wife and I really like. We need to decide whether we are going to spend our usual low-low-mid 20's on a car...or go up what for us is an entire 'level'. In other cars we've looked at...going low-30's buys a lot more car than we're used to...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,062
    I wish more people would state it as you have - we don't want to spend that much on a Taurus, as opposed to just saying "the Taurus is too expensive". You get what you pay for in most cases.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    Present incentives on the 2010 Taurus in New England offer two separate promotions which allow $2000 back on the non-SHO models. Now we are getting to a very attractive price point.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    6400 units sold in February, nearly a 100% jump over last year. Obviously last year was a very bad year so the jump needs be seen in context. Nonetheless, Ford may get near the 100,000 mark for this year if this continues. There was no breakdown within the Taurus line (SEL vs. LTD vs. SHO, etc.). Good news for Ford.
  • jlcjlc Posts: 30
    The first think I had the dealer do when I picked up my Tauarus was to remove the rear seat head restraints. They take up a lot of veiwing space. I keep them in the trunk in case I have rear seat passengers, which I seldom do. Much better view with out them. The fronts don,t seem to be a problem. Maybe folks that are having a problem need to adjust the height to a more comfortable position.
  • famof3kidsfamof3kids Posts: 160
    I've wanted an SHO for years, and this model is awesome.

    Yes the price is high, but, in comparing the actual content, there is no other car below $50k or $60k that has the same available content. I've been following lots of media outlets and most say the competitor is the Acura TL, CTS, G8, 535i. But, in comparing those against the SHO, none of them have the same content, so, how can they say they are accurate competitors?

    For instance, none of those competitors have heated/cooled front seats and heated rear seats. Neither offer seat massage. None can come close to the 365HP. None offer collision warning. None have powered rear shade. One don't even have a 6spd auto. I think one might offer DVD in headrest as accessory. Of course, then there's the whole Sync system and 911 assist from Ford.

    Seems to me that the value alone for a loaded SHO exceeds all competition. Right?

    With all this going for it, a limited production run (instead of flooded market of 90's & 2000's), seems the residual value would have to be higher than 'before'.

    I'm also keeping my eyes out for those with 2010's with high mileage to see how they're holding up...

    Thanks all,
    Mark
    :shades:
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    I would rather deal with a Ford dealer than any other, but with the price of gasoline going way up soon. I prefer something that gets almost twice the mileage. Sorry Ford but you need to add a good high mileage diesel engine to the Taurus.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If you want high-mileage from a Ford dealer, you should check out the new Fusion S, or Fusion Hybrid. Not a whole-lot smaller, and 30-40 MPG easily achieved.
  • brspottsbrspotts Posts: 6
    I'm looking closely at the Taurus Limited.. Checked out the Fusion, but the seats are uncomfortable and seem small.. I'm 6 foot and so is my wife... Carrying three kids in back with luggage the Fusion will not cut it...

    As far the Taurus, how is the Adaptive Cruise Control and the multi-counture massage seats? How does everyone like these functions?
  • donl1donl1 Posts: 112
    I ordered a Taurus Limited FWD last week and the dealer said it might be the middle of June before it's built. Does that sound about right to anyone that has ordered one or has one on order?
  • brspottsbrspotts Posts: 6
    Wow... That is a long time... I know it takes at least one month to build and get to the dealership just in general case. I wonder if the Sales person is just trying to set the expectation so you won't be disappointed, or trying to convince you to buy one off the lot...

    Barry
  • podpod Posts: 176
    I have been trying to test drive a new Taurus at the dealership from which I purchased my Sable and they have only one Taurus on the grounds (usually unavailable). This is a large Ford dealership with 80 Fusions and 80 Focuses and multiple mustangs and tons of lincolns. I conclude the supply line is tight. This may be a prudent strategy; on the other hand you can't buy if you can't test drive.
  • I went to my local dealership to see a Taurus today and I was pretty impressed. The Taurus (SHO)'s interior felt luxurious with good quality materials. The seats were very comfortable as well. I am looking for a place where I can rent a SE for 3-5 days and see just how the car functions but no luck so far at my local Enterprise or Hertz. You guys got any suggestions?
  • dohrmcdohrmc Posts: 14
    My wife went off for her annual ladies bridge tournament with her pals. It is about a 2hr drive to where they were playing over the weekend. She rode with several ladies in a new Ford Edge. When she returned, she complained of a sore neck due to the headrests. They evidently stick forward, and cause discomfort. [at least for her]. Question, what are the headrests like on the new Taurus? My venerable, almost 12yr old Saab 95 has wonderful seats, and an active headrest set-up. Best seats of any car I have ever owned. I assume Ford has taken a cheaper way of insuring anti-whiplash, and the result is a sore neck in an Edge. Any comments on the new Taurus? I am considering this car, but bad headrest design would be a deal breaker for me, as my wife wouldn't get into the car if it was like the Edge.
  • I finally got to sit in a 2010 Taurus at the Ajc Auto Show. As nice as the car is, it is ridiculous how cramped the interior is for a car that is 202 inches long. I have more rear leg room in my 2000 Taurus and it is 6 inches shorter and the center console is so huge you feel like you sitting in a bumper car the way your surrounded. The trunk is a bit too big. Im 6 3 and couldnt even touch the back of it. Ford needs to take 3 inches from the trunk and give it back to the rear seats and that car will be well worth the price there asking, Otherwise a Fusion Sport has just about the same leg room front and rear with a small trade off in head room and a slightly lower steering wheel.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    I too am mystified by the size of the center console which cramps the driver's right side. Perhaps they could put hinges on it and then an extra set of golf clubs could be carried in the empty space. Also the rear view is quite cramped with the headrests and the roofline slope. It is a big car but not in an efficient way. Also the 4100 pound weight is unfortunate. I would certainly feel safe in a crash with all the space and weight about me.
  • esfoadesfoad Posts: 210
    I just picked up my new SHO. I spent alot of time searching for a replacement for my 2005 Infiniti G35X. I am a big guy (6'-1" and 270 lbs) and find no problem with driver space or space behind me when the seat is set for me. I agree there's not much more interior space than the Infiniti G but the trunk space more than offsets that for those times when you need it. My ONLY and major complaint with the Infiniti was the lack of trunk space for trips. This car has wonderful amenities not available on many cars and the price was right after finding the right deal. So, we'll see if Ford lives up to the quality image they are hoping for but so far I'm happy.
  • blueyfishblueyfish Posts: 36
    Looking for info on leasing a Taurus AWD Limitrd. Anyone have the MF and Residual? 36 months/12000 miles per year. Thanks
  • jlcjlc Posts: 30
    I have the Taurus Limited and I love the massaging seats. I do not have the adaptive cruise but it sounds like a great idea. The first thing I did when I picked up the car was remove the rear head rests and put them in the trunk for, if I need them I got them. The front head rests are not a problem. I think some folks may need to ajust the up or down to find their comfort zone.
    Joe
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