Make the tax on gas and diesel the same. And yes I think fuel tax is good for America. The throngs of SUV owners dumping their over kill vehicles during the last spike in fuel prices proved just how smart fuel tax could influence proper vehicle choices.
I own a big SUV that gets 12mpg - its a fantastic truck we use it for SUV stuff - it seats 7 - hauls everything you can pack in it - on it or behind it and we do that. If we don't need it we simply take the car. Up till this year I had a 50 mile commute - so we had a 3rd car that got good milege which I drove to work. Now I'm based from the home office (no not laid off - still employed and part of a cost savings program at work) So we sold our 3rd car and simply have a car and the big SUV.
Our small car will get replaced with an even more fuel efficient vehicle - probably one of the new VW 2L diesel wagons 40mpg is nice! Till someone comes up with a AWD wagon capable of seating 6 or 7 in a pinch - or 4 and hauling lots of stuff that gets good milege we will simply keep our old paid off SUV and continue to pack it full - of butts or junk and enjoy it. 12mpg is fine when its hauling people and stuff.
12mpg just because I like having a big car and have no need for its capability - thats just stupid. Raise the taxes on fuel Please!!! It won't bother me one bit maybe we'll finally get fuel efficient large vehicles in the US for once. Till taxes or fuel prices go up people will not see any value in buying fuel efficient cars and the companies that build them will see no need to build them.
We might agree if you lived near the coast. You also might have a different view on nuclear power if you lived near Three Mile Island or Chernobyl. The closer you live to this stuff, the more you like the idea of someone keeping an eye on these guys.
I live less than 15 miles from Three Mile Island and am in favor of nuclear power plants.
The real issue with drilling for oil in this country is oil prices are too low. They had an article talking about oil exploration drilling stopping in western PA because oil prices are too low to make it worth while. I'm guessing the real reason you are hearing more about offshore drilling is no oil compnay wants to invest in "potential" oil resrves with oil at $50 a barrel.
It's all about money. It's the same reason GM killed the original Volt back in 1999. They didn't want to invest in the battery technology when they could make $8,000 to $10,000 profit on SUVs and pickup trucks. Also gas was cheap. Same issue now. Oil is cheap now so no one feels it's necessary to invest in finding home grown sources for oil. Wait until gas prices are approaching $3 this summer.
Actually, the Europeans use far less fuel for transportation, per capita and in aggregate, than we do. That's a fact. They also drive clean diesels, which are a whole lot more efficient than gas engines.
If you live in CA you know then that CARB has effectively blocked all but a few of those very efficient diesel cars from the USA. The ones now making it are neutered with Urea injection. A very poor way to deal with NoX. CARB has managed over the last decade to keep the emissions just far enough ahead of the EU to block diesels from the CARB states and effectively the US market. VW is the only company with the resources to push through the ridiculous regulations imposed by CARB. So one group in CA wants to cut CO2 and the other group of enviro whackos want to block diesel cars. Living in CA is like a bowl of granola. What ain't fruits and flakes are nuts.
By the way Obama is clueless about energy. They did not worry about that as community organizers.
That is an elitist attitude, that is very counter-productive. We all must be willing to have oil-drilling, nuke plants, windmills, hybrid battery plants, steel plants, and other in our general neighborhood; if our society uses those items. You should accept the fact that you can not just have the good without the bad. We all have things in our area that we would PREFER not to have - my local problem is a nuke plant that is running 10 years past it's planned lifetime.
So really stop with the "put it somewhere else" bulloney. I've heard enough of that from people like the Kennedy's who don't want to look at windmills on the horizon.
And BTW oil companies do not act sloppy on purpose - they're there to make money - and spilling oil is certainly not in their interest. No company or operation, or individual can accident-proof themselves. If CA is worried about the cost of an oil-spill cleanup, they could simply get a "security deposit" from the oil companies, before letting them drill.
So it's better to have China drilling off Florida than US companies?
Nope. But they're subject to the same restrictions that US companies are when drilling in US territory. In any event, oil is fungible and as far as the world market goes, it doesn't really matter if China pumps oil from US waters, if the US pumps oil from Malaysian waters, etc., etc.
Besides, the Chinese bought these leases during the Bush Administration. Additionally, we can't really tell the Chinese to get lost because they're our banker now.
You are misinformed. The Chinese were exploring the possibilities of drilling for oil off the shores of Cuba. That is NOT US waters, even though it is just a few miles from Key West. No leases were let to China by the Bush government. That was just one of so many myths put out by the left.
The point being as Cuba comes out of the 19th century they will probably do some oil drilling off of their coast line. As close as it is to Florida, I would think it best that we do it rather than a country with less interest in protecting our coast line.
While it's true that as many as 4.6 billion barrels of oil and 9.8 trillion cubic feet of natural gas may lie off Cuba's coast, no country, including China, is drilling for a drop of it
Cuba has leased exploration blocks to foreign companies for areas as close as 60 miles off Florida's southern coast. A 2006 New York Times article said China was one of the countries that had negotiated an offshore lease. But experts quoted recently by The Associated Press say none of the companies involved are Chinese and all are only allowed to explore for now, not drill in the region. Another exploration deal was announced between Brazil's state oil company, Petrobras, and Cuba. The deal would allow Petrobras to explore in Cuba's offshore territories in the Gulf of Mexico, with a potential drilling start-date in two years. fastcheck.org
Its a lot of money and probably well spent. I am more concerned about the other $749B that was pushed as creating jobs through projects dealing with infrastructure. I think we were sold a huge pot of PORK. Very little lean meat in the bill. Mostly fat for the crooks in Washington to pay off supporters.
Here is where some of the stimulus is going. $25,000,000 per mile to repave. :sick: Sounds like we will have streets paved with gold. :confuse:
April 14, 2009 Getting started in California
A list of 57 transportation projects totaling $625 million has been adopted by Caltrans as the first in line to receive federal infrastructure money. The projects include:
$75 million to repave three miles of rough pavement on Interstate 710 in Los Angeles.
$50 million to help reconstruct Doyle Drive, the southern access to the Golden Gate Bridge.
$46.7 million to replace two aging bridges on Highway 99 in Merced County.
$17 million to rehabilitate a stretch of Highway 99 in Butte County.
$16.8 million to construct two new lanes on Interstate 805 in Chula Vista to ease traffic congestion.
$13 million to replace the Russian River Bridge in Mendocino County near Ukiah.
For a complete list of the 57 transportation projects that were adopted and allocated funding, visit: www.dot.ca.gov/
Must be hiring all high paid UAW workers for those jobs. Or using illegals and the CEO pockets the gravy.
Oil addiction is a US specialty and its geographic challenges can't always be an excuse.
We are successful, making sufficient money to buy the fuel we want. If Europe wants to deprive themselves by enacting ridiculously high fuel taxes to fund their socialist programs - fine.
I for one don't want to have 1 beer when I have the $ in my pocket to buy 3 beers and enjoy myself. The reason I go to work is to buy what I like, not to pay tax for some lazy, slow-witted people to live off of my taxes.
In Ohio, of all the money for projects shovel ready, 7% of the stimulus amount is being spent on studies for things that we will have no money for in the future. While PA is spending all theirs on roadbuilding, we're doing studies. Democrat gov supported Hillary then BO and has raised 150 fees and charges; he ran on the platform of no new taxes. A little hypocritical for a minister to me. They are hell bent on building a railroad from Cleveland to Columbus to Cincinnati (allegedly through Dayton to buy votes in this area).
This is subject to discussion, especially when the current world crisis wasn't started in Europe.
>making sufficient money to buy the fuel we want
or setting fuel at such low prices so that cheap gas was the easy answer to the complex question of transportation.
Answering to your previous post, the gas tax is not to replace the income tax, but to trim the effects of a situation where someone can pay up to 45% of his/her wage.
You advocate a situation where the many pay little or no tax, whereas the few would pay for the bulk of it. This is the demagoguery that helped the socialists win many elections in France, and started the budget deficit spiral.
Good or bad, Us taxpayers must finance the stimulus package. what other better (or less worse) alternative do we have? The gas tax is one of the few tax you can legally evade if one really mean to.
I understand you want to keep your hard earned money for you and so does everyone, But the current price of gas is not the total and fair cost. Al mentioned the Exxon Valdez, I would mention the Amoco Cadiz, which was 4 times bigger than the EV and which pollution took 2 decades to get washed away from the Brittany coasts. This is a very small part of a tip of the iceberg. Maybe one million tons of oil is discharged in the oceans every year by ships which company did not want to pay for ballast cleaning.
Careful, there are some around here who consider the "C" word a dirty one. Some are actually referring to the pirates as "volunteer coast guard members". :confuse:
On the lighter side I got a laugh when steve suggested that any gas tax could be rescinded if the price of gas got too high. Sure, Washington would do that for us...sure. LMAO :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
So it was Ohio that sent us the politicians that like to spend billions on studies rather than tangible projects. :sick: We are spending billions studying High Speed Rail that will never get past the eco terrorists that screamed for it.
or setting fuel at such low prices so that cheap gas was the easy answer to the complex question of transportation.
With oil at $50/barrel, and the yield of gasoline from that barrel + needed taxes, our current prices in the U.S. are about correct. The U.S. government does not subsidize gasoline.
But the current price of gas is not the total and fair cost. Al mentioned the Exxon Valdez, I would mention the Amoco Cadiz, which was 4 times bigger than the EV and which pollution took 2 decades to get washed away from the Brittany coasts.
What's the logic to this? The higher gasoline taxes in Europe did not prevent a spill in Europe. Gasoline taxes really are not a factor in spills; I don't see how they could be.
Maybe one million tons of oil is discharged in the oceans every year by ships which company did not want to pay for ballast cleaning.
Again what's the logic here? How are you tieing a gasoline/road tax in the U.S. to the general issue of dumping bunker-oil from ships globally, together?
Oil demand will continue to increase globally for the expanded markets worldwide and as populations grow. I will continue to use oil to heat my house, as well as millions of other Americans. And the world will continue to use oil to make our plastics and such. We will continue to use all the oil we can get, until it runs low some day.
Gas taxes does not change the fact we will use it all. Gas Taxes may delay that day by a few percent, but it does not change the course we are on.
I can assure you that Companies like Exxon try hard not to have such accidents. That one cost them about $3 Billion and is still in court with leeches trying to get more. I knew many people involved in the cleanup. Most of the fishermen made big bucks during the cleanup. The state was in a bad recession at the time and that pulled them out of the recession. So most every cloud has a silver lining. I know it is still argued the long term affects of the oil spill. I don't think it has hurt the salmon industry nearly as much as the farm salmon has hurt it.
Good or bad, Us taxpayers must finance the stimulus package. what other better (or less worse) alternative do we have? The gas tax is one of the few tax you can legally evade if one really mean to.
Why must we finance the Stimulus. It is just added to the National Debt. We have NOT paid back ONE PENNY of the National debt since 1957. Why should we start now? And we all will be strapped with road taxes whether we drive a car, ride a bus or use a bike. The folks that suck our veins dry of blood will keep coming up with new ways to tax US if the old ways do not fund their wasteful spending. California just got an illegal 1% added in sales tax. They imposed it this month and next month we vote if we want to keep it.
Yup. Ohio, "The Heart of It All" is the slogan. Ohio gave you Helen Keller-Jones who could run the welfare system and look up info on Joe the Plumber but the same computers couldn't find a lost bank account from 25 years ago in unclaimed funds run by the state of Ohio. I have lived in Ohio every year, paid Ohio taxes income and others, Ohio driver license, registrations on multiple cars, and listed on other databases. They couldn't find me to give the money back.
It's a free country, and you can buy and use as much gas as you want in an SUV/PU, V-12, large boat, or RV as you want, and can afford. It is not up to government to decide the personal subjective decsion each individual has of - what is waste and what is need.
Even though I may personally think something is wasteful, I will fully fight for someone's right to do so.
I agree kernick. People can buy whatever car is on the market as long as they can pay for it. There are some people who actually NEED a vehicle like the Tahoe and Suburban. I consider it wasteful as well but it's a free country.
I just don't want to hear anyone driving a Hummer or Suburban complain if gas hits $4.00 again.
I thought they say Clinton left us free of debt when he left office...?
Clinton supposedly balanced the budget one year he was in office. The National debt rose $1.4 Trillion during his 8 years in office. Every President since Ike has added to the National debt. Looks like this will be the biggest addition yet.
We have one consolation. Most of the biggest economies are in a similar debt situation. With Japan having the largest debt to GDP ratio.
It already does in many ways. The guy that gets 15 MPG pays twice the gas tax as the person getting 30 MPG. When the vehicle is deemed a "gas guzzler" by the EPA it is taxed even higher. For cars that get 12.5 MPG or less combined their is a tax of $7700 added at purchase. This has been in place since 1978.
The purpose of the Gas Guzzler Tax is to discourage the production and purchase of fuel inefficient vehicles. The amount of any applicable Gas Guzzler Tax paid by the manufacturer will be disclosed on the automobile's fuel economy label (the window sticker on new cars).
I wonder if there have been any cases, recently, of more mainstream, less exotic cars getting stuck with a guzzler tax? I remember at some point in the 1980's, the Plymouth Gran Fury, Dodge Diplomat, and Chrysler 5th Ave got hit with a $1000 guzzler tax. They were EPA-rated 16/22, with the 318 V-8. Similar weight GM and Ford V-8 cars were rated around 17/24, thanks to 4-speed overdrive automatics. By that time, most Diplomats and Gran Furys were sold either as police cars or taxis. I'd imagine the police cars were exempt from the guzzler tax, but I wonder if the taxis were? I imagine the extra $1,000 penalty on a fairly cheap car was probably a deal killer for civilian models, and sent a lot of people to Ford or GM. The 5th Ave stayed pretty popular, though.
The 1990-91 Cadillac Brougham, when equipped with the optional 350 V-8, got hit with a guzzler tax. It was rated 15/22. Somehow they got it up to 16/25 for 1992, and it evaded the guzzler tax. That went to 17/25 for '94, and 17/26 for '96. Pretty impressive, actually, for something of that size and power.
If you think that's a good thing, a higher gas tax could keep oil prices depressed. Until the drilling completely stops and supplies get tight. Or maybe that would be good too?
At what point does waste become societally indefensible?
Ask the wealthy and powerful of the world. They use far more resources creating more waste than we do. Anyone who has and uses a private plane or large boat uses more resources than any driver.
Companies must manage their waste wisely or suffer fines.
Yes - manage, but not necessarily limit. I work for a company that runs 12 hours/day producing product and we have waste emissions (vapor and solid). There is no law saying that we can't operate 24 hours/day, or to put up 5 more buildings here in the U.S. and make 5X the amount of product and waste.
But you are mixing two uses of the word waste. In an industrial process waste is anything other than the desired product that is created. There is no known way around producing that waste. Others here are using "waste" in the other meaning - as the entire process (product and waste) are not needed.
For some reason the Lexus LS600L Hybrid gets off and it only gets 21 MPG combined. I think it depends how much you slip the head of the EPA under the table as to whether you get hit with the Gas Guzzler tax. They show the LS460L as a midsized car and it only gets 18 MPG. According to the chart at the EPA it should be assessed a $2600 Gas Guzzler tax. Ain't our regulators GRAND?
Ask the wealthy and powerful of the world. They use far more resources creating more waste than we do. Anyone who has and uses a private plane or large boat uses more resources than any driver.
Just ask the High Priest of the ENVIRONMENT? He has a Gulf Stream, Yacht, 11,000 square foot McMansion and who knows how many limos. That should be the benchmark. We should all use no more energy than Al Gore. Same goes for our CO2 emissions.
Yep Al Gore uses much more resources than almost anyone else on the planet. And while I'm not a fan of how he's earned his money, he certainly has a right to spend it as he wants.
In this country we are free to do many things whether others think they're excessive or waste. We're free to eat a dozen donuts everyday, smoke 5 packs, not exercise and just watch TV, or drive in a circle in an Excursion 24hr/day.
I'm seeing too much H2s, Tahoes and Suburbans on the roads with current gas price. What i waste of gas!!!
It is only a waste of gas if you like gambling with your life in a little econobox. I am sure you have read this latest report from the Insurance institute.
Danger even in 'safe' small cars The Insurance Institute crashes small cars into larger ones to show what could happen in real wrecks.
"There are good reasons people buy minicars," said Institute president Adrian Lund in a prepared statement. "They're more affordable, and they use less gas. But the safety tradeoffs are clear from our new tests."
I will keep my Sequoia gas guzzler till I find a decent diesel SUV to replace it. GO ahead and take a chance in your Yaris or Fit. That is what freedom is all about. Being allowed to gamble your life for a few bucks worth of gas.
Buying a car with the intent of surviving a crash with a larger vehicle is an idiotic proposition.
No matter what car you drive, there is something bigger out there.
You pick your odds and place your bet, I'll pick mine. How about if I fit somewhere between you and Al Gore. Don't sacrifice yourself on my account. I personally think people in a Fit on the freeway have a death wish. I would not get in one on our freeways. Maybe around town and back streets.
So, since one Hypocrite wastes a lot of fossil fuel, then everyone should be able to waste all they want?
Why do you want to label using a lot of fuel (or energy) waste? Waste is subjective; there is no predetermined amount someone can use, and then beyond that it is "waste".
Al Gore is entitled to spend his money anyway he wants. He can spend his millions on jet fuel and fly around the world 1,000 times. It's his to spend and enjoy as he wants. Or he can buy a Bentley and drive 100,000 miles/year, or his neighbors can get 3 mpg RV's and drive around the country until their money runs out.
We can have our opinions on whether we think that is foolish or wasteful, but that is as far as that goes. Our opinion does not matter a darn, compared to the individual's right to purchase as much energy as they want.
Your odds of dying in something other than a fatal car wreck are far far greater
Absolutely, that is why I get a physical every couple years, even though I feel great. You forget one thing. The car we drive the most is smaller than your Camry. It is a little ole LS400 Lexus. I just spent a small fortune putting the best Michelin Primacy tires on it, so I am stuck at least another 5 years with it. It will be 25 years old and may hit 120K by then. So when your Camry hits 20 years old you can feel you are as conservation minded as Gagrice.
I have bought ONE lottery ticket in my life for a dollar. I scratched it off and won $5. I quit a winner on the CA lottery debacle. Another gigantic rip-off by our crooked government in CA.
I will have spent less to maintain it than your LS400.
I imagine your payments this year were more than I have spent in the last 5 years maintaining the LS400. The high cost I have quoted was when my wife took the car to the Lexus dealer for maintenance. Before we were married. A routine maintenance from that batch of gangsters was about $1000 each time. She did not put a lot of miles on so would take it in about once a year. She still has all the records. I have spent about $2500, including the $550 set of tires last week, over 5 years. The same service from El Cajon Lexus would have topped $10 grand. I got $10 that says that TCH will see the crusher long before it reaches 20 years of age.
"Motorists could save a little at the gas pump if the wholesale gas tax rate drops, but they'll wind up paying more for auto repairs if there's less revenue to maintain roads, officials say."
they'll wind up paying more for auto repairs if there's less revenue to maintain roads
That has already happened here in CA. Not a whole lot of difference between the roads here and in Mexico. CA is like a third world country. You need a heavy duty SUV or PU to avoid damage to your suspension. Foo foo cars, vans and CUVs just will not take the abuse of 6" potholes.
Here is the scenario as I see it. People buy Prius to save gas. State takes in less money and quits maintaining roads. Wimpy Prius cannot handle 6" potholes and geek owners spend all they saved on gas to repair their suspension and replace LRR tires. :shades:
Comments
I own a big SUV that gets 12mpg - its a fantastic truck we use it for SUV stuff - it seats 7 - hauls everything you can pack in it - on it or behind it and we do that. If we don't need it we simply take the car. Up till this year I had a 50 mile commute - so we had a 3rd car that got good milege which I drove to work. Now I'm based from the home office (no not laid off - still employed and part of a cost savings program at work) So we sold our 3rd car and simply have a car and the big SUV.
Our small car will get replaced with an even more fuel efficient vehicle - probably one of the new VW 2L diesel wagons 40mpg is nice! Till someone comes up with a AWD wagon capable of seating 6 or 7 in a pinch - or 4 and hauling lots of stuff that gets good milege we will simply keep our old paid off SUV and continue to pack it full - of butts or junk and enjoy it. 12mpg is fine when its hauling people and stuff.
12mpg just because I like having a big car and have no need for its capability - thats just stupid. Raise the taxes on fuel Please!!! It won't bother me one bit maybe we'll finally get fuel efficient large vehicles in the US for once. Till taxes or fuel prices go up people will not see any value in buying fuel efficient cars and the companies that build them will see no need to build them.
We might agree if you lived near the coast. You also might have a different view on nuclear power if you lived near Three Mile Island or Chernobyl. The closer you live to this stuff, the more you like the idea of someone keeping an eye on these guys.
I live less than 15 miles from Three Mile Island and am in favor of nuclear power plants.
The real issue with drilling for oil in this country is oil prices are too low. They had an article talking about oil exploration drilling stopping in western PA because oil prices are too low to make it worth while. I'm guessing the real reason you are hearing more about offshore drilling is no oil compnay wants to invest in "potential" oil resrves with oil at $50 a barrel.
It's all about money. It's the same reason GM killed the original Volt back in 1999. They didn't want to invest in the battery technology when they could make $8,000 to $10,000 profit on SUVs and pickup trucks. Also gas was cheap. Same issue now. Oil is cheap now so no one feels it's necessary to invest in finding home grown sources for oil. Wait until gas prices are approaching $3 this summer.
If you live in CA you know then that CARB has effectively blocked all but a few of those very efficient diesel cars from the USA. The ones now making it are neutered with Urea injection. A very poor way to deal with NoX. CARB has managed over the last decade to keep the emissions just far enough ahead of the EU to block diesels from the CARB states and effectively the US market. VW is the only company with the resources to push through the ridiculous regulations imposed by CARB. So one group in CA wants to cut CO2 and the other group of enviro whackos want to block diesel cars. Living in CA is like a bowl of granola. What ain't fruits and flakes are nuts.
By the way Obama is clueless about energy. They did not worry about that as community organizers.
That is an elitist attitude, that is very counter-productive. We all must be willing to have oil-drilling, nuke plants, windmills, hybrid battery plants, steel plants, and other in our general neighborhood; if our society uses those items. You should accept the fact that you can not just have the good without the bad. We all have things in our area that we would PREFER not to have - my local problem is a nuke plant that is running 10 years past it's planned lifetime.
So really stop with the "put it somewhere else" bulloney. I've heard enough of that from people like the Kennedy's who don't want to look at windmills on the horizon.
And BTW oil companies do not act sloppy on purpose - they're there to make money - and spilling oil is certainly not in their interest. No company or operation, or individual can accident-proof themselves. If CA is worried about the cost of an oil-spill cleanup, they could simply get a "security deposit" from the oil companies, before letting them drill.
Nope. But they're subject to the same restrictions that US companies are when drilling in US territory. In any event, oil is fungible and as far as the world market goes, it doesn't really matter if China pumps oil from US waters, if the US pumps oil from Malaysian waters, etc., etc.
Besides, the Chinese bought these leases during the Bush Administration. Additionally, we can't really tell the Chinese to get lost because they're our banker now.
You are misinformed. The Chinese were exploring the possibilities of drilling for oil off the shores of Cuba. That is NOT US waters, even though it is just a few miles from Key West. No leases were let to China by the Bush government. That was just one of so many myths put out by the left.
The point being as Cuba comes out of the 19th century they will probably do some oil drilling off of their coast line. As close as it is to Florida, I would think it best that we do it rather than a country with less interest in protecting our coast line.
While it's true that as many as 4.6 billion barrels of oil and 9.8 trillion cubic feet of natural gas may lie off Cuba's coast, no country, including China, is drilling for a drop of it
Cuba has leased exploration blocks to foreign companies for areas as close as 60 miles off Florida's southern coast. A 2006 New York Times article said China was one of the countries that had negotiated an offshore lease. But experts quoted recently by The Associated Press say none of the companies involved are Chinese and all are only allowed to explore for now, not drill in the region. Another exploration deal was announced between Brazil's state oil company, Petrobras, and Cuba. The deal would allow Petrobras to explore in Cuba's offshore territories in the Gulf of Mexico, with a potential drilling start-date in two years. fastcheck.org
What would that do to the economy and the average middle-class worker?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
When gas hits $3 a gallon, roll back the gas tax to keep RUG at $4 a gallon.
That'll get people used to the high gas prices again and further encourage alternative fuels, downsizing, transit, whatever.
Not much. Only 3.3% of $797B for roads and bridges.
2,000th Transportation Project (ABC)
$48.1 B is a lot of money to me and Mr. Dirksen.
Its a lot of money and probably well spent. I am more concerned about the other $749B that was pushed as creating jobs through projects dealing with infrastructure. I think we were sold a huge pot of PORK. Very little lean meat in the bill. Mostly fat for the crooks in Washington to pay off supporters.
Others prefer to zero in with a rifle. (Navy seals used rifles recently.)
Riflemen are usually Conservatives. You know the rest.
Agree with full post. I just wish more people got realistic. Oil addiction is a US specialty and its geographic challenges can't always be an excuse.
>By the way Obama is clueless about energy. They did not worry about that as community organizers.
This is great humor. Better than Leno.
Somehow I feel we've been through the same "save the world with ______ form of energy alternative" before with earlier administrations.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sounds like we will have streets paved with gold. :confuse:
April 14, 2009
Getting started in California
A list of 57 transportation projects totaling $625 million has been adopted by Caltrans as the first in line to receive federal infrastructure money. The projects include:
$75 million to repave three miles of rough pavement on Interstate 710 in Los Angeles.
$50 million to help reconstruct Doyle Drive, the southern access to the Golden Gate Bridge.
$46.7 million to replace two aging bridges on Highway 99 in Merced County.
$17 million to rehabilitate a stretch of Highway 99 in Butte County.
$16.8 million to construct two new lanes on Interstate 805 in Chula Vista to ease traffic congestion.
$13 million to replace the Russian River Bridge in Mendocino County near Ukiah.
For a complete list of the 57 transportation projects that were adopted and allocated funding, visit: www.dot.ca.gov/
Must be hiring all high paid UAW workers for those jobs. Or using illegals and the CEO pockets the gravy.
We are successful, making sufficient money to buy the fuel we want. If Europe wants to deprive themselves by enacting ridiculously high fuel taxes to fund their socialist programs - fine.
I for one don't want to have 1 beer when I have the $ in my pocket to buy 3 beers and enjoy myself. The reason I go to work is to buy what I like, not to pay tax for some lazy, slow-witted people to live off of my taxes.
No doubt...well connected contractors who are able to build well under those budgets and keep the surplus for themselves.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is subject to discussion, especially when the current world crisis wasn't started in Europe.
>making sufficient money to buy the fuel we want
or setting fuel at such low prices so that cheap gas was the easy answer to the complex question of transportation.
Answering to your previous post, the gas tax is not to replace the income tax, but to trim the effects of a situation where someone can pay up to 45% of his/her wage.
You advocate a situation where the many pay little or no tax, whereas the few would pay for the bulk of it. This is the demagoguery that helped the socialists win many elections in France, and started the budget deficit spiral.
Good or bad, Us taxpayers must finance the stimulus package. what other better (or less worse) alternative do we have? The gas tax is one of the few tax you can legally evade if one really mean to.
I understand you want to keep your hard earned money for you and so does everyone, But the current price of gas is not the total and fair cost. Al mentioned the Exxon Valdez, I would mention the Amoco Cadiz, which was 4 times bigger than the EV and which pollution took 2 decades to get washed away from the Brittany coasts. This is a very small part of a tip of the iceberg. Maybe one million tons of oil is discharged in the oceans every year by ships which company did not want to pay for ballast cleaning.
Careful, there are some around here who consider the "C" word a dirty one. Some are actually referring to the pirates as "volunteer coast guard members". :confuse:
On the lighter side I got a laugh when steve suggested that any gas tax could be rescinded if the price of gas got too high. Sure, Washington would do that for us...sure. LMAO :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
With oil at $50/barrel, and the yield of gasoline from that barrel + needed taxes, our current prices in the U.S. are about correct. The U.S. government does not subsidize gasoline.
But the current price of gas is not the total and fair cost. Al mentioned the Exxon Valdez, I would mention the Amoco Cadiz, which was 4 times bigger than the EV and which pollution took 2 decades to get washed away from the Brittany coasts.
What's the logic to this? The higher gasoline taxes in Europe did not prevent a spill in Europe. Gasoline taxes really are not a factor in spills; I don't see how they could be.
Maybe one million tons of oil is discharged in the oceans every year by ships which company did not want to pay for ballast cleaning.
Again what's the logic here? How are you tieing a gasoline/road tax in the U.S. to the general issue of dumping bunker-oil from ships globally, together?
Oil demand will continue to increase globally for the expanded markets worldwide and as populations grow. I will continue to use oil to heat my house, as well as millions of other Americans. And the world will continue to use oil to make our plastics and such. We will continue to use all the oil we can get, until it runs low some day.
Gas taxes does not change the fact we will use it all. Gas Taxes may delay that day by a few percent, but it does not change the course we are on.
I can assure you that Companies like Exxon try hard not to have such accidents. That one cost them about $3 Billion and is still in court with leeches trying to get more. I knew many people involved in the cleanup. Most of the fishermen made big bucks during the cleanup. The state was in a bad recession at the time and that pulled them out of the recession. So most every cloud has a silver lining. I know it is still argued the long term affects of the oil spill. I don't think it has hurt the salmon industry nearly as much as the farm salmon has hurt it.
Good or bad, Us taxpayers must finance the stimulus package. what other better (or less worse) alternative do we have? The gas tax is one of the few tax you can legally evade if one really mean to.
Why must we finance the Stimulus. It is just added to the National Debt. We have NOT paid back ONE PENNY of the National debt since 1957. Why should we start now? And we all will be strapped with road taxes whether we drive a car, ride a bus or use a bike. The folks that suck our veins dry of blood will keep coming up with new ways to tax US if the old ways do not fund their wasteful spending. California just got an illegal 1% added in sales tax. They imposed it this month and next month we vote if we want to keep it.
Yup. Ohio, "The Heart of It All" is the slogan. Ohio gave you Helen Keller-Jones who could run the welfare system and look up info on Joe the Plumber but the same computers couldn't find a lost bank account from 25 years ago in unclaimed funds run by the state of Ohio. I have lived in Ohio every year, paid Ohio taxes income and others, Ohio driver license, registrations on multiple cars, and listed on other databases. They couldn't find me to give the money back.
Great state, exceeded maybe by California. :grin
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I thought they say Clinton left us free of debt when he left office...? :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's a free country, and you can buy and use as much gas as you want in an SUV/PU, V-12, large boat, or RV as you want, and can afford. It is not up to government to decide the personal subjective decsion each individual has of - what is waste and what is need.
Even though I may personally think something is wasteful, I will fully fight for someone's right to do so.
I just don't want to hear anyone driving a Hummer or Suburban complain if gas hits $4.00 again.
Companies must manage their waste wisely or suffer fines.
When does that filter down to individuals?
Clinton supposedly balanced the budget one year he was in office. The National debt rose $1.4 Trillion during his 8 years in office. Every President since Ike has added to the National debt. Looks like this will be the biggest addition yet.
We have one consolation. Most of the biggest economies are in a similar debt situation. With Japan having the largest debt to GDP ratio.
It already does in many ways. The guy that gets 15 MPG pays twice the gas tax as the person getting 30 MPG. When the vehicle is deemed a "gas guzzler" by the EPA it is taxed even higher. For cars that get 12.5 MPG or less combined their is a tax of $7700 added at purchase. This has been in place since 1978.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/info.shtml#guzzler
The purpose of the Gas Guzzler Tax is to discourage the production and purchase of fuel inefficient vehicles. The amount of any applicable Gas Guzzler Tax paid by the manufacturer will be disclosed on the automobile's fuel economy label (the window sticker on new cars).
The 1990-91 Cadillac Brougham, when equipped with the optional 350 V-8, got hit with a guzzler tax. It was rated 15/22. Somehow they got it up to 16/25 for 1992, and it evaded the guzzler tax. That went to 17/25 for '94, and 17/26 for '96. Pretty impressive, actually, for something of that size and power.
OPEC sees 'devastating contraction' in oil demand (AFP)
Ask the wealthy and powerful of the world. They use far more resources creating more waste than we do. Anyone who has and uses a private plane or large boat uses more resources than any driver.
Companies must manage their waste wisely or suffer fines.
Yes - manage, but not necessarily limit. I work for a company that runs 12 hours/day producing product and we have waste emissions (vapor and solid). There is no law saying that we can't operate 24 hours/day, or to put up 5 more buildings here in the U.S. and make 5X the amount of product and waste.
But you are mixing two uses of the word waste. In an industrial process waste is anything other than the desired product that is created. There is no known way around producing that waste. Others here are using "waste" in the other meaning - as the entire process (product and waste) are not needed.
Just ask the High Priest of the ENVIRONMENT? He has a Gulf Stream, Yacht, 11,000 square foot McMansion and who knows how many limos. That should be the benchmark. We should all use no more energy than Al Gore. Same goes for our CO2 emissions.
In this country we are free to do many things whether others think they're excessive or waste. We're free to eat a dozen donuts everyday, smoke 5 packs, not exercise and just watch TV, or drive in a circle in an Excursion 24hr/day.
It is only a waste of gas if you like gambling with your life in a little econobox. I am sure you have read this latest report from the Insurance institute.
Danger even in 'safe' small cars
The Insurance Institute crashes small cars into larger ones to show what could happen in real wrecks.
"There are good reasons people buy minicars," said Institute president Adrian Lund in a prepared statement. "They're more affordable, and they use less gas. But the safety tradeoffs are clear from our new tests."
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/14/autos/iihs_small_vs_big/index.htm
I will keep my Sequoia gas guzzler till I find a decent diesel SUV to replace it. GO ahead and take a chance in your Yaris or Fit. That is what freedom is all about. Being allowed to gamble your life for a few bucks worth of gas.
Buying a car with the intent of surviving a crash with a larger vehicle is an idiotic proposition.
No matter what car you drive, there is something bigger out there.
No matter what car you drive, there is something bigger out there.
You pick your odds and place your bet, I'll pick mine. How about if I fit somewhere between you and Al Gore. Don't sacrifice yourself on my account. I personally think people in a Fit on the freeway have a death wish. I would not get in one on our freeways. Maybe around town and back streets.
Your odds of dying in something other than a fatal car wreck are far far greater than dying because you chose a Yaris over a Sequoia.
Why do you want to label using a lot of fuel (or energy) waste? Waste is subjective; there is no predetermined amount someone can use, and then beyond that it is "waste".
Al Gore is entitled to spend his money anyway he wants. He can spend his millions on jet fuel and fly around the world 1,000 times. It's his to spend and enjoy as he wants. Or he can buy a Bentley and drive 100,000 miles/year, or his neighbors can get 3 mpg RV's and drive around the country until their money runs out.
We can have our opinions on whether we think that is foolish or wasteful, but that is as far as that goes. Our opinion does not matter a darn, compared to the individual's right to purchase as much energy as they want.
The odds of being injured or killed in an auto accident are much higher than winning a lottery, and look how many people buy those tickets.
Absolutely, that is why I get a physical every couple years, even though I feel great. You forget one thing. The car we drive the most is smaller than your Camry. It is a little ole LS400 Lexus. I just spent a small fortune putting the best Michelin Primacy tires on it, so I am stuck at least another 5 years with it. It will be 25 years old and may hit 120K by then. So when your Camry hits 20 years old you can feel you are as conservation minded as Gagrice.
Hopefully if I have the TCH in 17 more years I will have spent less to maintain it than your LS400.
I wish it were not.
I imagine your payments this year were more than I have spent in the last 5 years maintaining the LS400. The high cost I have quoted was when my wife took the car to the Lexus dealer for maintenance. Before we were married. A routine maintenance from that batch of gangsters was about $1000 each time. She did not put a lot of miles on so would take it in about once a year. She still has all the records. I have spent about $2500, including the $550 set of tires last week, over 5 years. The same service from El Cajon Lexus would have topped $10 grand. I got $10 that says that TCH will see the crusher long before it reaches 20 years of age.
Sagging gas tax worries officials (Charleston Daily Mail)
That has already happened here in CA. Not a whole lot of difference between the roads here and in Mexico. CA is like a third world country. You need a heavy duty SUV or PU to avoid damage to your suspension. Foo foo cars, vans and CUVs just will not take the abuse of 6" potholes.
Here is the scenario as I see it. People buy Prius to save gas. State takes in less money and quits maintaining roads. Wimpy Prius cannot handle 6" potholes and geek owners spend all they saved on gas to repair their suspension and replace LRR tires. :shades: