Why must we finance the Stimulus. It is just added to the National Debt. We have NOT paid back ONE PENNY of the National debt since 1957. Why should we start now? And we all will be strapped with road taxes whether we drive a car, ride a bus or use a bike. The folks that suck our veins dry of blood will keep coming up with new ways to tax US if the old ways do not fund their wasteful spending. California just got an illegal 1% added in sales tax. They imposed it this month and next month we vote if we want to keep it.
A good point that many will not understand.
Those worrying about 'our grandkids' being left with the bill...meh...the national debt is never paid back. It's just rolled forward and then rolled forward again each time parts of it come due. We do pay interest on it to the T-Bill holders but we don't pay it back. It would have to take fantastic period of growth beyond even the 80s and 90s where we generated so much in surplusses that we had nothing better to do with the money than payoff the debts.
The Feds use financial leverage based on our stellar credit rating.
Your road report decided I will spend Summer driving in BC again. Alberta roads are also in good repair.
If I ever visit Dizzyland or SC again, I'll fly in and rent a 4WD to get me out of the pot holes. Although the wife just returned from PS and said the roads around there were OK.
So you're in favor of reducing the U.S. lifestyle, and allowing the others around the globe to use the oil/gasoline instead? Make no mistake about it - there are billions of other people in the world who would use the fuel if it is available and affordable to them.
Who knows we might get creative.
There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. And scientists have been trying to be creative for many years. Wishing for something and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.
The higher the better. The only thing this country under stands is a bomb dropped on its head.
Who knows we might get creative.
What's this WE JAZZ? You got an alternative to oil and gas, let's here it? We have wasted $BILLIONS$ on Corn Ethanol and are getting less MPG. If there were viable alternatives they would be on the market. That is the capitalist way.
"The chairman of the House Transportation Committee, where a bill to impose such a tariff would ultimately be considered, said this week he thinks Congress needs to quit studying and start acting on a proposal to charge us for every mile we drive."
A VMT would require installation of mileage transmitters in millions of vehicles, and installation and maintenance of tracking and data recording centers to collect the information and levy the appropriate taxes.
One suggestion has been to outfit gas pumps to record mileage and add the mileage tax to the fuel bill when motorists fill their tanks.
Why not just increase the fuel tax to a reasonable level in the first place?
I say KISS to that. Keep It Stupid Simple. I see no compelling reason to institute technology that would cost many billions of $'s to retrofit to our vehicles, and then some amount of money to maintain each year, compared to Congress changing the value on a piece of paper.
The gas tax could be a variable number that's reviewed and reset each month. So the amount budgeted annually for roads could be divided into 12 months, and then if fuel demand changes for any reason, then the gas-tax is automatically recalculated and applied to compensate for the change. The cost would be 1 bean-counter in an office in DC, and the e-mails to the gas stations.
Personally I think the Feds should spend the 18 cents per gallon on just the Interstate highways and there would be plenty. Let the states charge per mile and just report your Odo reading when you get your new tags. Simple is always best. Our governments just do not like that concept. The states have a better idea of what they need than the Feds do. Think bridge to Nowhere with the Congressional Pork. This latest Stimulus is just more pork.
Let the states charge per mile and just report your Odo reading when you get your new tags.
Don't know how electronic/digital readout odos work today. Can they be bypassed or shut off? Some cars that I have had in past (distant) would get noisy odo cables and/or the speedo needle would start jumping around.
You had to disconnect cable connector from rear of speedometer/odo, pull out long steel cable and lube it with graphite. Sometimes you also had to put in a new cable. You could also get underneath car and see where odo cable was connected into trans.
Unscrupulous guys back then could keep cable off (then no speedo) and not accumulate miles on odo.
Don't know how electronic/digital readout odos work today. Can they be bypassed or shut off?
Let's just say anyone who can access the software to that display, can change that display. I'd guess that within a couple of days of any laws being passed to tax-per-mile, you'd be able to buy and download the software, so you can take your laptop out and plug it into your OBD-port and change your odo to what you like.
Oh, and no matter how secure someone tries to make software, all it takes is for the programmer (many times outsourced to Russia or India) to sell the code.
Here's a perfect example of why I feel the government has plenty of tax-money, and what we give them is currently more than adequate, if they didn't waste much of it.
$4M and 2 years if the government does it, or a small group of people working on their own for 8 days?
I bet they got a bunch of equipment from the feds (Barking Sands Missle Base is nearby). And then they probably applied for an after-the-fact Corps of Engineers permit to move a bunch of dirt.
No, not any more than usual. It's just that's there's probably more to the story. Like getting "federal" or "state" help and ignoring permitting requirements.
I'm sure if current permitting requirements were around 100 years ago we'd still be digging the Panama Canal, or waiting for approvals for the Hoover Dam.
Large government and intricate detailed rules and regulations, get you ineffective (lenghty and costly) results. Ex. research how much aid has ever reached the Gulf Coast following Katrina!
Our government is good at hindering individual capitalism and innovation, while collecting power and authority, and charging the common person an exorbitant amount in taxes for a relatively low level of service.
Our city street veered half Left from a state highway enabling traffic to travel at dangerous speeds four blocks until it met an arterial. Two blocks down the street is a cross street containing Stop signs. Rather than jump through city council proceedures and hoops, I just went out at 2 A.M. & dug holes on our street parking strips.
The next night I dug up the two Stop signs and transferred them to our street causing the traffic to stop on their way to the arterial. It worked and the daytime traffic count of speeders diminished in about a week. That was 1969 and they remain today where I put them
(Every time I see an old cannon in a park, I want to turn it around and fire a shot at City Hall). :P
Hoover Dam was proposed in 1922 and construction didn't start until the project was moved to the front burner after the Depresssion started. It was finished in '36. Not exactly an 8 day job. Of course now, after seeing what it did to the estuary and the river, it probably wouldn't get approved. But don't get me going on one of my canoer rants. :P
"Oil prices have risen in seven of the last eight sessions, as the market adjusts to shrinking supplies, after a long stretch of swelling inventories. Last week, U.S. oil inventories fell for the third-straight week, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, with a draw of 5.4 million barrels, far exceeding the average analyst forecast of a 500,000 barrel decline." Crude Extends Rally As US Supplies Tighten (Wall St. Journal)
So crude is pushing $64 a barrel, but the economy is keeping demand tempered. Even the summer driving season won't push the inventory down much it doesn't sound like.
All in all, I'd rather have higher gas taxes to discourage consumption than higher unemployment. It would be interesting to see someone expouse on how the oil shock affected unemployment and what the correlation is.
Higher gas taxes means a few things - better infrastructure for one (see, collapsing Interstate bridges in MN).
Another thing higher gas taxes does is encourage alternatives to driving with ICE (or at least gasoline) engines. There's a lot of opportunities there and another chance for the US to lead the technological way to less crude.
And less reliance on oil from countries that we have lousy relations with could mean less need for a Commander in Chief with experience in the trenches (although recent history indicates that chicken hawks cost us more in personnel, prestige and money than true military scions). :P
There ain't no free lunch and there's been too much of a subsidy to the automobile for too long. (assmotax.org)
How can you be for increased taxes when the government charges you and me an exorbitant amount in taxes for a relatively low level of service?
I have police and fire service a phone call away. I have a good (but not great) elementary school district and high school district, and 3 major universities are within 30 minutes of my driveway. There are 4 libraries (not counting the ones on university campuses) within 30 minutes of me. Crime is low, literacy is high, the workforce is reasonably educated, available and willing to work.
I live in a place where there is religious freedom so that I may worship as I see fit. I live in a place that has political freedom so I can agree or disagree with what I see fit (such as people in power wussing out on a gas tax and instead making the auto industry the scapegoat yet again by creating CAFE standards penalizing manufactures for making cars people want to buy, or thankfully coming to the realization that everyone needs health care). I can go to one of a dozen grocery stores and purchase an unbelievable variety of food. I don't have to carry weapons on my trip to the store. I can walk, ride my bicycle in a bike lane, or drive a vehicle. There is infrastructure to support goods and myself to get to the market. I don't have to live in fear that I will be abducted for my beliefs.
There is infrastructure set up to allow trade between my country and other countries, and within my country. There are rules that govern that trade to protect me. I think I am getting a great deal for the amount of services I receive. I think living in the US a bargain.
I think for those people that don't feel the same, there is a country just to our south overrun by drug lords where they can hang out.
"although the Energy Secretary thinks a gas tax would be effective, the rest of the government will satisfy itself with a plan [CAFE] that it knows isn't likely to work. Oh well."
And I can show some examples of highways that cost $1B/mile. Is that a great deal? Maybe you should also look at the national debt, and ask whether this sort of exorbitant spending and taxing is sustainable. No.
We have all those freedoms as there were when the Constitution was written. What was the government like then, and how big? How many departments? Give me that sort of government and I'd be very happy. The government today has grown exponentially larger into more and more detailed parts of your life. You sound like you're willing to give up your freedom, in the name of a false-sense of security and care of Big Brother.
Anyway, we as a nation need to stop the $1B/mile construction projects that enrich the local politicians, and mega-construction companies (Bechtel)
Just as an addition to your post. States like CA the largest employer is the state University system. 150,000 high paid employees for 10 Universities. How can that kind of waste be sustained?
Add to that the small part of the stimulus money that is actually earmarked for projects is being given to cronies. In CA many contractors are not allowed into the bidding process. So we know that the waste will be tremendous and the jobs created negligible.
You give politicians more money and they just waste more money. I am glad that this administration is backing off on additional gas tax. Though the VAT has me concerned.
What was the government like then, and how big? How many departments? Give me that sort of government and I'd be very happy
So you'd want the landed gentry running the show and building their fancy courthouses and elegant parish churches on the backs of the common people (not to mention the slaves the gentry owned). Sounds like a dream world for sure.
It was a step up from the old Salem days when the local magistrates got a little detailed and would send you to the stocks for working on Sunday.
I wonder what the taxes on whale oil were back then?
This society had better get ready to start doing more for itself, rather than expecting government to do everything for it. With the corruption, and ineptitude and delay caused by overregulation in the system, we can't afford what we should get for our tax $.
And increasing tax-rates will simply slow down the economy more. So the other option is to cut benefits paid thru social-security, gov't retirements or medicare (cut Medicare and medical costs are then shifted to insurers and employees with coverage!).
No more taxes. Feeding the government only makes the system worst. Fight to starve it and reduce the government influence. Give power back to the individuals, and the communities.
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -George Bernard Shaw
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. - Ronald Reagan
My shovelling is certainly better than the idea of the government steam-shovelling our tax money into "Big Digs", and subsidizing other transportation projects.
But actually I heard this morning that only 5% of the stimulus $ Congress has approved, has been spent. So just like Katrina, the government's bureaucracy is so complex they are ineffective.
I could put up with the ineffective part, if they were efficient.
And I can show some examples of highways that cost $1B/mile. Is that a great deal? Maybe you should also look at the national debt, and ask whether this sort of exorbitant spending and taxing is sustainable.
That wasn't the question. The question was:
How can you be for increased taxes when the government charges you and me an exorbitant amount in taxes for a relatively low level of service?
And my response is I feel I am getting good value with respect to the goods and services I receive for my money.
We have all those freedoms as there were when the Constitution was written.
I can write a check for any amount I want. It doesn't mean the check will clear. It takes capital to back up those promises, just like a check.
What was the government like then, and how big?
The 1800 census showed a US population of over 5,300,000.
Los Angeles Metropolitan Area population was 18,000,000 as of 2008
Nice apples to apples comparison there.
Give me that sort of government and I'd be very happy.
You might want to look at moving to the Ukraine or other Eastern European nations with small, weak governments...I heard there economies are booming.
You sound like you're willing to give up your freedom, in the name of a false-sense of security and care of Big Brother
I honestly have no idea how you formed that conclusion. I think its because you are out of arguments. I like being able to purchase the vehicle that meets my needs without the government mandating what I can or cannot buy. I also am no fan of photo radar or any other "big brother" gimmic, especially something in my vehicle that tracks when and where I drive for "tax purposes." Gas tax is simple and use based...drive a lot, pay more taxes, have a gas guzzler, pay more taxes. My mid-size sedan has a 31 mpg average over 25,000 miles. I am fine with it.
Anyway, we as a nation need to stop the $1B/mile construction projects that enrich the local politicians, and mega-construction companies (Bechtel)
Yup, corruption and abuse of power should be curbed. That really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand though.
"Cars with small fuel-sipping engines are now subject to a 1 percent sales tax, while sports cars and sport utility vehicles with the largest engines are subject to a 40 percent sales tax."
And my response is I feel I am getting good value with respect to the goods and services I receive for my money.
Get back to me on that note when you are forced onto Medicare that you have paid for all your working career. Only to find out that more than 50% of doctors will not accept you as a patient or drop you as their patient. That is the reality of our poorly run Federal government. Not to mention the fact that Congress has stolen over $3 trillion from the Social Security taxes and spent it on other social programs with no chance of getting it back.
Maybe all the roads around your home are smooth and lovely. I hate driving my wife's Lexus as I have to go down the road swerving to miss potholes that would destroy the suspension. That is why I like a heavy BOF truck or SUV that will hold up under our 3rd world roads that should be maintained by the highest gas tax in the USA, here in CA.
I like being able to purchase the vehicle that meets my needs without the government mandating what I can or cannot buy. I also am no fan of photo radar or any other "big brother" gimmic, especially something in my vehicle that tracks when and where I drive for "tax purposes." Gas tax is simple and use based...drive a lot, pay more taxes, have a gas guzzler, pay more taxes.
I agree with that fully. So why would you want more gas tax, when the government uses so little of it for what it was intended? I believe the accounting is somewhere around 15% of all gas tax is used to maintain roads and bridges.
>But actually I heard this morning that only 5% of the stimulus $ Congress has approved, has been spent.
Last week I saw a rollover map of how much had been spent in a few states. I believe IDAHO was the biggest recipient with hundreds of dollars per person.
And my response is I feel I am getting good value with respect to the goods and services I receive for my money.
Well then you must be paying little or no tax, or your Congressmen are taking more than their fair-share for your area.
For the rest of us, we pay much more then we ever receive back. Government on all levels wastes a lot of our tax money. Even if they don't "waste" or pilfer it, there still is the cost of collecting and redistributing the money. They have to pay for the millions of bureaucrats who simply push paper, not providing direct services. So even if the government were perfectly run with no corruption and no pilfering you'd be lucky to get $0.75 of service for every $ put in.
Get back to me on that note when you are forced onto Medicare that you have paid for all your working career. Only to find out that more than 50% of doctors will not accept you as a patient or drop you as their patient.
Sounds like a great argument for national single payer healthcare. All the doctors will accept you as a patient.
That is the reality of our poorly run Federal government. Not to mention the fact that Congress has stolen over $3 trillion from the Social Security taxes and spent it on other social programs with no chance of getting it back.
I don't see social security as some national pension like an entitlement. I don't really expect it to be there when I retire at all anyway. That money keeps the older generation in their homes and combines with medicare to support their healthcare needs. It addresses current need.
Maybe all the roads around your home are smooth and lovely. I hate driving my wife's Lexus as I have to go down the road swerving to miss potholes that would destroy the suspension. That is why I like a heavy BOF truck or SUV that will hold up under our 3rd world roads that should be maintained by the highest gas tax in the USA, here in CA.
I don't know, maybe we should just give San Diego back to Mexico. The central coast roads seem to be fine, if a little crispy. I spend a lot of time going from LA to SF along the 101, and have a lot of stops along the way to visit friends and family.
In Ann Arbor, most of the roads are passable. Huron River Drive is getting re-done because they did the drainage wrong the first time and it started to fall into the Huron River. I think that is one of the worst roads in the area. I won't drive my car down some roads in Canton or Dearborn (never had to change a tie rod or ball joint before moving to MI), but for the most part, the roads are in acceptable shape.
I agree with that fully. So why would you want more gas tax, when the government uses so little of it for what it was intended? I believe the accounting is somewhere around 15% of all gas tax is used to maintain roads and bridges.
I don't care what they use it for. The goal is to change customer behavior. Right now, those BOF cars are gone. You wont be able to get one because they don't meet CAFE requirements. If there was a tax, the car companies could make what people want to buy, and they can decide with their wallet if 17mpg is okay with them with $5/gal gas.
Just as an addition to your post. States like CA the largest employer is the state University system. 150,000 high paid employees for 10 Universities. How can that kind of waste be sustained?
California has one of the highest rated public systems for higher education in the world. A lot of the salaries of these people come from grants and private investment in research. I think its very shallow minded and dim witted to think of that as waste. It also creates an educated, thinking workforce. Ivory tower concepts support innovation in corporations.
Again, I think the California University system is a great value and one of the few assets California actually has.
Yep, we're a receiver state, not a donor state. It depends on the funding, but there's a formula for some of the stimulus money that says every state gets a minimum of X dollars, and then the money gets bumped up based on population.
So apparently small rural states get more dollars per capita than big urban states. There's a move afoot to change the formula since the more populous states are getting shafted.
I don't see a national map off-hand. USA Today supposedly broke the story and is supposed to have a "tracker" map, but I can't find it there.
"Idaho has not been as hard hit by the recession as some other states but it is reaping the most federal stimulus money per capita — $245.63 person has been awarded so far, according to a USA Today analysis. The national average is $13.
Michigan, which has the nation’s highest unemployment rate at 12.9 percent, has awarded about 21 cents worth of contracts per person."
A major highway heading west into downtown is getting redone this summer. Work's been going on for several weeks now and will last all of June. At least school is about out, but the construction has been playing havoc with people's commutes. Money was set aside for this project a few years ago.
Meanwhile, people are welcoming the stimulus money with open arms. I've seen some of the plans for using that money - we're talking lots of miles of new overlays on existing roads mostly. Those projects have been in the final planning stages for a while and were to be done as the money became available, likely over 5 to 10 years. Now those projects will get done fast since most of them are shovel ready.
People haven't seen anything yet with regard to road construction projects and difficulty getting around town. I can't wait to hear the griping. :P
A good compromise on a $5.00 gas tax increase would be to make it voluntary. Just push the yes button on the pump if you want to pay it or the no button if you don't. Then we would all be happy. Right?
I don't care what they use it for. The goal is to change customer behavior.
And with that statement we are 180 degrees out of sync. Totally opposing each other philosophically. You may think taxing people to control their lives is alright. I do not.
You may think that having 40,000 academics with 86,000 backup administration for a total of 226,000 University students is a good ratio and acceptable expenditure of tax dollars. I totally disagree. I think this last proposition election in CA leaves little doubt the bulk of Californians feel the same as I do. I am all for good education. Our system is way top heavy with wasted administration. I am all for good pay for teachers. The disparity between the average grade school teacher and university professor is on a scale of about 4 times. Average University CA professor approximately $15k per month, average grade school teacher is $4k per month. Which has the tougher job? If you don't know the answer you are not very knowledgeable on education.
A good compromise on a $5.00 gas tax increase would be to make it voluntary. Just push the yes button on the pump if you want to pay it or the no button if you don't. Then we would all be happy. Right?
I don't believe that would achieve the desired goal so I don't really see it as a good compromise, but I also think CAFE is a total joke. And CARB too.
Average University CA professor approximately $15k per month, average grade school teacher is $4k per month. Which has the tougher job? If you don't know the answer you are not very knowledgeable on education.
The average professor had between 8 and 12 year of post-high school education where a grade school teacher has 5-6. The "average" university professor is expected to perform leading research in a given field, publish that research so they can get tenure, apply for grants to support their research (and salaries), manage and support (financially) graduate students (at both the masters and doctoral level in the case of UCs, masters only for Cal States) and post-docs, and instruct undergrads. I think that doing 3-4 full time jobs is generally more challenging than doing one, especially if parents took the time to raise their children instead of outsourcing it.
And I think for a number of reasons, I am pretty knowledgeable on education. I think that a lot of people make bad decisions with incomplete information because it doesn't lead to the outcome they want. They also typically assume falsely that their needs and wants are the same as everyone elses.
Regarding Tenure: It only perpetuates mediocrity. Educators of all levels fear Competition so why not have all teachers at every level bid their jobs every two years?
Install Merit Pay for teachers who prove to be above average.
He couldn't make it in Engineering, Business, or Sociology so the Dean said major in Education. Nobody flunks out of that school! So he did and the the mouth breather retired at age 53 with 60% of his highest salary.
Theory teaching professors are not tuned to the real business world. Most profs of Pharmacy could not run a drugstore and make a profit.
You have stated your case plainly. We simply disagree on many levels. We do agree on CAFE and CARB, so there we have common ground. We probably want to accomplish similar ends, our methods just do not coincide. I realize we have taxed items to try and control their use such as alcohol and tobacco. We could probably all add items to the list we would like to see and hear less of. I would put a sin tax on big car speakers and rap music.
Sadly the taxes we pay on any level are rarely used for their stated purpose. The lottery for education in CA is a prime example. I just don't like the direction of government from the top to the bottom.
Mr. An estimated that the average new car, minivan or sport utility vehicle in China already gets the equivalent of 35.8 miles a gallon this year based on the American measurement system of corporate averages and will be required to get 42.2 miles a gallon in 2015.
By comparison, President Obama announced last week that each automaker will be required to reach a corporate average of 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016.
Gee whiz, the Chinese have already reached the standard we are giving our automakers another 7 years to reach??!! Guess our new and improved standard STILL isn't much to talk about in a global context....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You may think taxing people to control their lives is alright. I do not.
Control their lives? Or influence one purchasing decision they will make every five years or so (many more years in the case of your wife and her '90 Lexus)??
If the tax works as intended, you won't pay more tax anyway, you will do the smart thing and make a different choice. And in the long run, it will probably save you even more money, as the price of gasoline won't swing around wildly with each fresh "crisis" as it does now.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
A good point that many will not understand.
Those worrying about 'our grandkids' being left with the bill...meh...the national debt is never paid back. It's just rolled forward and then rolled forward again each time parts of it come due. We do pay interest on it to the T-Bill holders but we don't pay it back. It would have to take fantastic period of growth beyond even the 80s and 90s where we generated so much in surplusses that we had nothing better to do with the money than payoff the debts.
The Feds use financial leverage based on our stellar credit rating.
If I ever visit Dizzyland or SC again, I'll fly in and rent a 4WD to get me out of the pot holes. Although the wife just returned from PS and said the roads around there were OK.
Who knows we might get creative. :shades:
Who knows we might get creative.
There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. And scientists have been trying to be creative for many years. Wishing for something and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.
Who knows we might get creative.
What's this WE JAZZ? You got an alternative to oil and gas, let's here it? We have wasted $BILLIONS$ on Corn Ethanol and are getting less MPG. If there were viable alternatives they would be on the market. That is the capitalist way.
More taxes are not going to solve anything.
Pay-Per-Mile Driving Tax Wins Support of House Transportation Chairman (Green Car Advisor)
One suggestion has been to outfit gas pumps to record mileage and add the mileage tax to the fuel bill when motorists fill their tanks.
Why not just increase the fuel tax to a reasonable level in the first place?
I say KISS to that. Keep It Stupid Simple. I see no compelling reason to institute technology that would cost many billions of $'s to retrofit to our vehicles, and then some amount of money to maintain each year, compared to Congress changing the value on a piece of paper.
The gas tax could be a variable number that's reviewed and reset each month. So the amount budgeted annually for roads could be divided into 12 months, and then if fuel demand changes for any reason, then the gas-tax is automatically recalculated and applied to compensate for the change. The cost would be 1 bean-counter in an office in DC, and the e-mails to the gas stations.
Don't know how electronic/digital readout odos work today. Can they be bypassed or shut off? Some cars that I have had in past (distant) would get noisy odo cables and/or the speedo needle would start jumping around.
You had to disconnect cable connector from rear of speedometer/odo, pull out long steel cable and lube it with graphite. Sometimes you also had to put in a new cable. You could also get underneath car and see where odo cable was connected into trans.
Unscrupulous guys back then could keep cable off (then no speedo) and not accumulate miles on odo.
Let's just say anyone who can access the software to that display, can change that display. I'd guess that within a couple of days of any laws being passed to tax-per-mile, you'd be able to buy and download the software, so you can take your laptop out and plug it into your OBD-port and change your odo to what you like.
Oh, and no matter how secure someone tries to make software, all it takes is for the programmer (many times outsourced to Russia or India) to sell the code.
$4M and 2 years if the government does it, or a small group of people working on their own for 8 days?
http://www.qualitymag.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_100000000000005800- 46
I'm sure if current permitting requirements were around 100 years ago we'd still be digging the Panama Canal, or waiting for approvals for the Hoover Dam.
Large government and intricate detailed rules and regulations, get you ineffective (lenghty and costly) results. Ex. research how much aid has ever reached the Gulf Coast following Katrina!
Our government is good at hindering individual capitalism and innovation, while collecting power and authority, and charging the common person an exorbitant amount in taxes for a relatively low level of service.
The next night I dug up the two Stop signs and transferred them to our street causing the traffic to stop on their way to the arterial. It worked and the daytime traffic count of speeders diminished in about a week. That was 1969 and they remain today where I put them
(Every time I see an old cannon in a park, I want to turn it around and fire a shot at City Hall). :P
"Oil prices have risen in seven of the last eight sessions, as the market adjusts to shrinking supplies, after a long stretch of swelling inventories. Last week, U.S. oil inventories fell for the third-straight week, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, with a draw of 5.4 million barrels, far exceeding the average analyst forecast of a 500,000 barrel decline." Crude Extends Rally As US Supplies Tighten (Wall St. Journal)
So crude is pushing $64 a barrel, but the economy is keeping demand tempered. Even the summer driving season won't push the inventory down much it doesn't sound like.
All in all, I'd rather have higher gas taxes to discourage consumption than higher unemployment. It would be interesting to see someone expouse on how the oil shock affected unemployment and what the correlation is.
charges you and me an exorbitant amount in taxes for a relatively low level of service?
For example, our military Commander in Chief hasn't even taken one course in Junior R O T C. And we have to salute HIM??
Another thing higher gas taxes does is encourage alternatives to driving with ICE (or at least gasoline) engines. There's a lot of opportunities there and another chance for the US to lead the technological way to less crude.
And less reliance on oil from countries that we have lousy relations with could mean less need for a Commander in Chief with experience in the trenches (although recent history indicates that chicken hawks cost us more in personnel, prestige and money than true military scions). :P
There ain't no free lunch and there's been too much of a subsidy to the automobile for too long. (assmotax.org)
That should be good for a few rebuttal posts eh?
I have police and fire service a phone call away. I have a good (but not great) elementary school district and high school district, and 3 major universities are within 30 minutes of my driveway. There are 4 libraries (not counting the ones on university campuses) within 30 minutes of me. Crime is low, literacy is high, the workforce is reasonably educated, available and willing to work.
I live in a place where there is religious freedom so that I may worship as I see fit. I live in a place that has political freedom so I can agree or disagree with what I see fit (such as people in power wussing out on a gas tax and instead making the auto industry the scapegoat yet again by creating CAFE standards penalizing manufactures for making cars people want to buy, or thankfully coming to the realization that everyone needs health care). I can go to one of a dozen grocery stores and purchase an unbelievable variety of food. I don't have to carry weapons on my trip to the store. I can walk, ride my bicycle in a bike lane, or drive a vehicle. There is infrastructure to support goods and myself to get to the market.
I don't have to live in fear that I will be abducted for my beliefs.
There is infrastructure set up to allow trade between my country and other countries, and within my country. There are rules that govern that trade to protect me. I think I am getting a great deal for the amount of services I receive. I think living in the US a bargain.
I think for those people that don't feel the same, there is a country just to our south overrun by drug lords where they can hang out.
Energy Secretary Calls Gas Tax "Not Politically Feasible" (Straightline)
"although the Energy Secretary thinks a gas tax would be effective, the rest of the government will satisfy itself with a plan [CAFE] that it knows isn't likely to work. Oh well."
We have all those freedoms as there were when the Constitution was written. What was the government like then, and how big? How many departments? Give me that sort of government and I'd be very happy. The government today has grown exponentially larger into more and more detailed parts of your life. You sound like you're willing to give up your freedom, in the name of a false-sense of security and care of Big Brother.
Anyway, we as a nation need to stop the $1B/mile construction projects that enrich the local politicians, and mega-construction companies (Bechtel)
Add to that the small part of the stimulus money that is actually earmarked for projects is being given to cronies. In CA many contractors are not allowed into the bidding process. So we know that the waste will be tremendous and the jobs created negligible.
You give politicians more money and they just waste more money. I am glad that this administration is backing off on additional gas tax. Though the VAT has me concerned.
So you'd want the landed gentry running the show and building their fancy courthouses and elegant parish churches on the backs of the common people (not to mention the slaves the gentry owned). Sounds like a dream world for sure.
It was a step up from the old Salem days when the local magistrates got a little detailed and would send you to the stocks for working on Sunday.
I wonder what the taxes on whale oil were back then?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-05-28-debt_N.htm
This society had better get ready to start doing more for itself, rather than expecting government to do everything for it. With the corruption, and ineptitude and delay caused by overregulation in the system, we can't afford what we should get for our tax $.
And increasing tax-rates will simply slow down the economy more. So the other option is to cut benefits paid thru social-security, gov't retirements or medicare (cut Medicare and medical costs are then shifted to insurers and employees with coverage!).
No more taxes. Feeding the government only makes the system worst. Fight to starve it and reduce the government influence. Give power back to the individuals, and the communities.
-Winston Churchill
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man,
which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
-G Gordon Liddy
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson
Let the roads get a few ruts, and it'll keep down the speeding in the residential areas.
- Ronald Reagan
"The Republicans stroke platitudes until they purr like epigrams." - Adlai E. Stevenson
"In modern life nothing produces such an effect as a good platitude. It makes the whole world kin." - Oscar Wilde
link
Time to grab a shovel. You can pick what to use it for, lol.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But actually I heard this morning that only 5% of the stimulus $ Congress has approved, has been spent. So just like Katrina, the government's bureaucracy is so complex they are ineffective.
I could put up with the ineffective part, if they were efficient.
That wasn't the question. The question was:
How can you be for increased taxes when the government charges you and me an exorbitant amount in taxes for a relatively low level of service?
And my response is I feel I am getting good value with respect to the goods and services I receive for my money.
We have all those freedoms as there were when the Constitution was written.
I can write a check for any amount I want. It doesn't mean the check will clear. It takes capital to back up those promises, just like a check.
What was the government like then, and how big?
The 1800 census showed a US population of over 5,300,000.
Los Angeles Metropolitan Area population was 18,000,000 as of 2008
Nice apples to apples comparison there.
Give me that sort of government and I'd be very happy.
You might want to look at moving to the Ukraine or other Eastern European nations with small, weak governments...I heard there economies are booming.
You sound like you're willing to give up your freedom, in the name of a false-sense of security and care of Big Brother
I honestly have no idea how you formed that conclusion. I think its because you are out of arguments. I like being able to purchase the vehicle that meets my needs without the government mandating what I can or cannot buy. I also am no fan of photo radar or any other "big brother" gimmic, especially something in my vehicle that tracks when and where I drive for "tax purposes." Gas tax is simple and use based...drive a lot, pay more taxes, have a gas guzzler, pay more taxes. My mid-size sedan has a 31 mpg average over 25,000 miles. I am fine with it.
Anyway, we as a nation need to stop the $1B/mile construction projects that enrich the local politicians, and mega-construction companies (Bechtel)
Yup, corruption and abuse of power should be curbed. That really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand though.
China Is Said to Plan Strict Gas Mileage Rules (NY Times)
Get back to me on that note when you are forced onto Medicare that you have paid for all your working career. Only to find out that more than 50% of doctors will not accept you as a patient or drop you as their patient. That is the reality of our poorly run Federal government. Not to mention the fact that Congress has stolen over $3 trillion from the Social Security taxes and spent it on other social programs with no chance of getting it back.
Maybe all the roads around your home are smooth and lovely. I hate driving my wife's Lexus as I have to go down the road swerving to miss potholes that would destroy the suspension. That is why I like a heavy BOF truck or SUV that will hold up under our 3rd world roads that should be maintained by the highest gas tax in the USA, here in CA.
I like being able to purchase the vehicle that meets my needs without the government mandating what I can or cannot buy. I also am no fan of photo radar or any other "big brother" gimmic, especially something in my vehicle that tracks when and where I drive for "tax purposes." Gas tax is simple and use based...drive a lot, pay more taxes, have a gas guzzler, pay more taxes.
I agree with that fully. So why would you want more gas tax, when the government uses so little of it for what it was intended? I believe the accounting is somewhere around 15% of all gas tax is used to maintain roads and bridges.
Last week I saw a rollover map of how much had been spent in a few states. I believe IDAHO was the biggest recipient with hundreds of dollars per person.
Other states had a single digit number.
Does someone know the source of the map?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well then you must be paying little or no tax, or your Congressmen are taking more than their fair-share for your area.
For the rest of us, we pay much more then we ever receive back. Government on all levels wastes a lot of our tax money. Even if they don't "waste" or pilfer it, there still is the cost of collecting and redistributing the money. They have to pay for the millions of bureaucrats who simply push paper, not providing direct services. So even if the government were perfectly run with no corruption and no pilfering you'd be lucky to get $0.75 of service for every $ put in.
Sounds like a great argument for national single payer healthcare. All the doctors will accept you as a patient.
That is the reality of our poorly run Federal government. Not to mention the fact that Congress has stolen over $3 trillion from the Social Security taxes and spent it on other social programs with no chance of getting it back.
I don't see social security as some national pension like an entitlement. I don't really expect it to be there when I retire at all anyway. That money keeps the older generation in their homes and combines with medicare to support their healthcare needs. It addresses current need.
Maybe all the roads around your home are smooth and lovely. I hate driving my wife's Lexus as I have to go down the road swerving to miss potholes that would destroy the suspension. That is why I like a heavy BOF truck or SUV that will hold up under our 3rd world roads that should be maintained by the highest gas tax in the USA, here in CA.
I don't know, maybe we should just give San Diego back to Mexico. The central coast roads seem to be fine, if a little crispy. I spend a lot of time going from LA to SF along the 101, and have a lot of stops along the way to visit friends and family.
In Ann Arbor, most of the roads are passable. Huron River Drive is getting re-done because they did the drainage wrong the first time and it started to fall into the Huron River. I think that is one of the worst roads in the area. I won't drive my car down some roads in Canton or Dearborn (never had to change a tie rod or ball joint before moving to MI), but for the most part, the roads are in acceptable shape.
I agree with that fully. So why would you want more gas tax, when the government uses so little of it for what it was intended? I believe the accounting is somewhere around 15% of all gas tax is used to maintain roads and bridges.
I don't care what they use it for. The goal is to change customer behavior. Right now, those BOF cars are gone. You wont be able to get one because they don't meet CAFE requirements. If there was a tax, the car companies could make what people want to buy, and they can decide with their wallet if 17mpg is okay with them with $5/gal gas.
California has one of the highest rated public systems for higher education in the world. A lot of the salaries of these people come from grants and private investment in research. I think its very shallow minded and dim witted to think of that as waste. It also creates an educated, thinking workforce. Ivory tower concepts support innovation in corporations.
Again, I think the California University system is a great value and one of the few assets California actually has.
So apparently small rural states get more dollars per capita than big urban states. There's a move afoot to change the formula since the more populous states are getting shafted.
I don't see a national map off-hand. USA Today supposedly broke the story and is supposed to have a "tracker" map, but I can't find it there.
"Idaho has not been as hard hit by the recession as some other states but it is reaping the most federal stimulus money per capita — $245.63 person has been awarded so far, according to a USA Today analysis. The national average is $13.
Michigan, which has the nation’s highest unemployment rate at 12.9 percent, has awarded about 21 cents worth of contracts per person."
Idaho Statesman
WA is another big receiver state while OR isn't getting their "fair share."
Meanwhile, people are welcoming the stimulus money with open arms. I've seen some of the plans for using that money - we're talking lots of miles of new overlays on existing roads mostly. Those projects have been in the final planning stages for a while and were to be done as the money became available, likely over 5 to 10 years. Now those projects will get done fast since most of them are shovel ready.
People haven't seen anything yet with regard to road construction projects and difficulty getting around town. I can't wait to hear the griping. :P
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And with that statement we are 180 degrees out of sync. Totally opposing each other philosophically. You may think taxing people to control their lives is alright. I do not.
You may think that having 40,000 academics with 86,000 backup administration for a total of 226,000 University students is a good ratio and acceptable expenditure of tax dollars. I totally disagree. I think this last proposition election in CA leaves little doubt the bulk of Californians feel the same as I do. I am all for good education. Our system is way top heavy with wasted administration. I am all for good pay for teachers. The disparity between the average grade school teacher and university professor is on a scale of about 4 times. Average University CA professor approximately $15k per month, average grade school teacher is $4k per month. Which has the tougher job? If you don't know the answer you are not very knowledgeable on education.
I don't believe that would achieve the desired goal so I don't really see it as a good compromise, but I also think CAFE is a total joke. And CARB too.
The average professor had between 8 and 12 year of post-high school education where a grade school teacher has 5-6. The "average" university professor is expected to perform leading research in a given field, publish that research so they can get tenure, apply for grants to support their research (and salaries), manage and support (financially) graduate students (at both the masters and doctoral level in the case of UCs, masters only for Cal States) and post-docs, and instruct undergrads. I think that doing 3-4 full time jobs is generally more challenging than doing one, especially if parents took the time to raise their children instead of outsourcing it.
And I think for a number of reasons, I am pretty knowledgeable on education. I think that a lot of people make bad decisions with incomplete information because it doesn't lead to the outcome they want. They also typically assume falsely that their needs and wants are the same as everyone elses.
Install Merit Pay for teachers who prove to be above average.
He couldn't make it in Engineering, Business, or Sociology so the Dean said major in Education. Nobody flunks out of that school! So he did and the the mouth breather retired at age 53 with 60% of his highest salary.
Theory teaching professors are not tuned to the real business world. Most profs of Pharmacy could not run a drugstore and make a profit.
Sadly the taxes we pay on any level are rarely used for their stated purpose. The lottery for education in CA is a prime example. I just don't like the direction of government from the top to the bottom.
Mr. An estimated that the average new car, minivan or sport utility vehicle in China already gets the equivalent of 35.8 miles a gallon this year based on the American measurement system of corporate averages and will be required to get 42.2 miles a gallon in 2015.
By comparison, President Obama announced last week that each automaker will be required to reach a corporate average of 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016.
Gee whiz, the Chinese have already reached the standard we are giving our automakers another 7 years to reach??!! Guess our new and improved standard STILL isn't much to talk about in a global context....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Control their lives? Or influence one purchasing decision they will make every five years or so (many more years in the case of your wife and her '90 Lexus)??
If the tax works as intended, you won't pay more tax anyway, you will do the smart thing and make a different choice. And in the long run, it will probably save you even more money, as the price of gasoline won't swing around wildly with each fresh "crisis" as it does now.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)