But the majority of folks here don't think we need to reduce oil consumption, so there we reach our impasse.
That is not true for me at all. I would love to have a PU that gets 45 MPG. The State of CA has virtually blocked that type vehicle from being sold here. I can now get an SUV that will get 30 MPG if I want to spend $60k and lose a bunch on my current 15 MPG SUV. It is not the consumer that has kept out high mileage vehicles. It is the Feds and CARB. The impasse is between the consumer and the regulators. Adding more tax will not make it easier to use less.
that Oregon is suggesting was just on TV and if I want to be selfish it is one I might support. It is a tax by mileage as has been suggested here before. Sounds a lot like a road useage tax to be but one of the officials sponsoring the suggested tax explained the states reasoning. If they simply put in a gas tax people might switch to EVs and Hybrids and that would reduce the tax intake by the state. To assure the continued revenue to the state they want to put a black box in our car and tax us by mileage.
That is even creepier than the photo radar. Hi government, can you do me a favor and track my whereabouts and comings and goings. Maybe charge me more if I used roads during peak periods (adding to congestion) and also if I am in a bad part of town late at night you can charge more because of the necessary police presence, and track what vehicles are close to eachother...
Yeah, no thanks.
That makes Oregon even more weird then California. No wonder everyone in CA and WA pick on them.
Maybe the Oregonians are trying to discourage the Californians from moving there. :shades:
Maybe Oregon can go in with Progressive and not only will you pay your gas tax by the mile, but you can pay your insurance by the mile too (with a hefty surcharge for repeated speeding).
Maybe Oregon can go in with Progressive and not only will you pay your gas tax by the mile, but you can pay your insurance by the mile too (with a hefty surcharge for repeated speeding).
You should be sure to tell Larsb about that part.
Can I just have them track my whereabouts at all times and if I am not in my assigned region it can have the police from sector B come and try to kill me with laser beams? That'd be hawt.
I only drive my Outback about 5,000 miles a year, so the idea does have some appeal. But it's not available here. But they do offer it next door in Oregon. The gizmo hooks up to your OBDII connector and transmits speed, time of day and number of miles the car is driven. There's no GPS tracking.
There must be GPS tracking. How would they know if the miles were driven in Oregon. That was one of the issues. If you bought gas in CA and paid tax then came across the border into Oregon and had 200 miles mostly in CA. The state is only supposed to charge for miles driven within the state.
PS My Farmers gives my a big discount for driving less than 7000 miles per year.
Yeah I heard about the program. How does it transmit the data? If its cellular or wi-fi, then there isn't a need for GPS and they still know where you are and where you've been, even if they say they aren't tracking it. I also heard a lot of people *weren't* saving money and asked to be switched back to their old policy. I still personally feel like its a bit too invasive. On the other hand, I am fine with flight recorder/black boxes in vehicles. I feel like once you screw up and impact someone else's life, then you lose some of your rights to privacy, etc. I think that is also why I am a fan of secondary enforcement for driver distraction related issues.
One site said it was wireless but there's a blog at Progressive that says that "the MyRate device is equipped with nothing more than a cell phone chip that sends text messages. It talks to the car’s computer, gets speed and time of day, and texts that to Progressive."
So yeah, you could take that info and generally figure out where people have been driving, even though Progressive says they don't do that.
I read the article you linked. Sounds pretty complicated. I had the impression it was near a launch in Oregon, but it sure doesn't sound that way from what they wrote there.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
GPS is the only way it would work. Big Brother to the max.
January 5, 2009 PORTLAND, Ore. — For years, Oregon has been diligent about reducing the state's dependence on fossil fuels, but its environmental consciousness has come at a big price—gas tax revenues are down $4.8 million a year compared with 2006.
A state task force will look at equipping every new vehicle in the state with a Global Positioning System tracking device to quietly record every mile driven and where. Motorists would pay at the gas pump based on how much they drove, no matter how fuel-frugal their vehicle.
While Oregon appears to be out in front in looking at a mileage fee, several other states, including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Florida, Rhode Island, Minnesota and Texas, have also expressed an interest in phasing out the gas tax in favor of charging motorists for how much they drive.
The Oregon proposal already is running into opposition from some drivers who say it would discriminate against rural residents who may have to drive several miles just to get to the grocery store and raise inevitable privacy concerns with Big Brother keeping a satellite watch over where everyone is driving.
Just talked to my daughter that was in Alaska visiting her brother. She flew into Chicago last night. She had left her PU truck in long term parking. Yes she got used to dad's PU truck and just bought a new GMC built in Indiana where she lives. She checked gas in Illinois before crossing into Indiana. Gas was $2.09 on the Illinois side of the border and only $1.77 on the Indiana side both have high gas tax only 2 cents difference. Just bigger crooks in Illinois. No surprise there.
On MyRate scheme, doubt that cell phone chip sending text messages is viable without significant equipment and software upgrades in cell towers and cell mobile switching centers. Consider the volume of vehicles constantly on the road, especially in metro areas. GPS seems more likely as a tracking mechanism.
Wonder how Oregon citizens/drivers feel about this issue and ramifications of misuse of data to track peoples's movements.
Gas tax, to extent a state wants it, is easiest to run. States already do it, no new technology and extra costs are needed.
Very good chart. New York is highest at about 60 cents, and Georgia (in continental US) is lowest at 30 cents. Wonder if anyone travels both states frequently and if they observe that NY roads/bridges are twice as good as Georgia.
Even using GPS the system(s) can be programmed to "not save" the detailed tracking info but just collect the mileage.
So there will never be a situation where they would be lying if they said "no tracking information is being kept" if they can merely explain why it's not.
Besides - who cares if my insurance company knows "where" I drove to? If I'm not doing anything illegal, what harm could come from some clerk at Progressive knowing:
Lars drove 16 miles on Chandler Blvd then turned left onto Dobson Road then stopped at 1517 Dobson for two hours. then drove 14 miles north on Dobson Road then stopped for 10 minutes at 18715 Dobson Road
Tracking device in each car will of course be registered "specifically" to that car/vehicle. This would include the vehicle make, model, engine, EPA MPG ratings. The Oregon dot data bese could then look at each purchase of gas to see if amount of gas bought matches up to miles driven for type of vehicle.
Over a number of gas purchases, the State database/software would determine if miles driven and gas purchases are within bounds for MPG ratings of vehicle. If significant mismatch indicating lots of gas purchased, but small amount of miles travelled, then car/vehicle owner will get letter asking to bring vehicle in to some kind of State dot for inspection.
Well if you're in sales, or an executive in business, you've then given your schedule (especially who you visited) to a 3rd party. What's in the law to keep them from selling that information? Also, even if they can't sell the info., do you think Progressive's computer security system is impervious to hacking?
I can see my next vehicle might need to be a kit-car that I build myself.
The Oregon dot data bese could then look at each purchase of gas to see if amount of gas bought matches up to miles driven for type of vehicle.
So they'll be bringing in every landscaping company in Oregon regularly? Or anyone with a snowmobile, boat (most people who tow fillup at stations not marinas), or ATV? It sounds already like it's getting really complicated, and a lot of records need to be kept. The time people would need to divert to answer these questions and the state workers asking them is WASTE.
Also: You really need to consider if you think more and more questioning and rules from government is the way you want to go. Or do you think it's no big deal that the DOT can tell you to come down to their office M-F 8-5 (take time off from work?), wait in line, and bring records with you to prove that you used gasoline legally and did not alter the tracking device on the vehicle? No big deal right? As long as it doesn't conflict with the city inspector coming out to your house to see if you haven't tampered with the temp. limit controls on your HVAC?
Thats' your choice; I don't want anyone making that choice for me. You can put your schedule, credit card numbers and social security number all over the Internet; that's your choice, not mine.
I give info. to the government, insurance and banks only as needed. I applied for automatic deleivery of heating oil last week at a small local dealer, and they asked for a SS#. NO WAY, as they may lay the clerk off next week, who has previously downloaded the database onto a portable drive (doesn't get paid enough, or has a drug addiction and needs $), and 1-2 months later you'll find your identity was sold.
In this day and age your really stupid for giving out any information not absolutely necessary and required. It's not that you're doing something criminal, it's that people can use information to make you a victim of crime.
Oregon plan with GPS just too complicated and intrusive in sense of possible misuse in tracking citizens' movements. This is the time for Oregonians to call in their local chapter of ACLU to fight any kind of method that can track a citizen's movements.
Simplest method to collect taxes for roads/bridges is present method of paying tax when you buy gas. A supplementary method to get more funds is to tax by vehicle weight. In Illinois, one pays $78/year for license plate tag renewal regardless of vehicle weight. So, a gargantuan 5000+ pound Suburban pays the same as a tiny Honda Fit. The Fit barely touches the pavement while the Suburban pounds away and causes more pavement wear. The more your vehicle weighs, then the more you should pay in yearly license fee. If you can afford a Suburban, then you can afford to pay substantially more in yearly license fee.
It would be mighty handy for burglars. They could map your coming and going. Maybe you don't have anything you worry about. Others may. It comes back around to trust in the Government. Which I have very little, and it keeps being eroded daily.
Might also come in handy at divorce time. I prefer a simple reading of the odo when you renew your license. Add the charge on at that time. If they plan on charging 1.5 cents per mile that is $225 for the average 15k mile per year driver.
Maybe we should insist that the technology that does saves "tracking" information be disabled if so many people are worried about their location information getting into the wrong hands.
But for the more paranoid of you: this technology has been around for years, and I have never heard of any instances of the data getting into the wrong people's hands. Have you?
I've HAVE seen it used for GOOD, like when the cops tracked that dude who murdered his wife and found out where he had dumped the body.
Can one imagine the extra effort that cheaters will have to take when having affairs if the Oregon method of collecting gas/miles taxes is implemented. The cheater will worry about his/her Oregon GPS data being subpeoned by a spouse. The cheater would then have to set up and drive extra routes/destinations to camoflague their movements.
Don't really care if using "Preferred Card" at food store and they are tracking my bread, milk, coffee, vegetable purchases. Obviously, all would agree about some store asking for SS#. Some years ago, when switching to a new cell phone provider, the clerk in an authorized cell phone provider store asked me to fill in my SS on application form. I refused, got up to walk out, the clerk called the owner of store, and owner said that I did not have to provide SS.
Info getting into wrong hands? Happens all the time. Lots of instances of credit card info being stolen from retailers' data bases.
Here in land of Blago, Rezko, Daley, the Messiah, Illinois Tollway users can pay cash or open an account and put transponder on windsheild and get one-half the toll rate. Tolls debited to account as you drive through toll stations. Then, you can view your account details at Tollway website. It shows complete details: location of toll station, lane number, date, time of day, amount of toll debited.
Sometimes I wonder if there are not some people at Tollway office or otherwise in the State mulling how they can use this data beyond simple accounting.
Well, this is not credit card information or social security numbers.
It's a series of location tracking information, which when "untied" from the person would be useless.
We at my company could set up an internal database, completely detached from the Internet, which would keep the identity of the person completely separate from the insurance policy number.
The key of the file would be setup where even if a hacker got both databases, they would have a hard time matching up the tracking data to the right person.
And if we decided to keep the person's name and address in a different database from the policy number, NEVER would a hacker be able to put the data together in a usable form.
Keep the files in different file systems with different access permissions.
If a little company like mine has the personnel and system capability to do that, surely the insurance companies also do.
I think the simple solution for Oregon drivers would be to simply disconnect the device if it costs more to have. Then you would pay the normal gas tax like someone from out of state. It looks to me like at a penny and a half per mile it is optimized for a car that gets 27 MPG. For the Prius owner it would cost close to double the regular gas tax. For a Sequoia owner about half the normal gas tax.
The largest population base lives on the WA border. Just cross over the bridge and fill up. Same goes for WA drivers, many who cross over to Portland because Oregon has no sales tax. Think like a politician and you will come up with a sleazy way to avoid taxes. Just ask Tom Daschle.
Wonder what the little minds in the Oregon legislature plan for EVs. They already have pizza delivery companies using EVs. NO TAX when plugged into a home outlet. My favorite potato chip company Kettle brand powers their whole fleet on used cooking oil. So many ways to beat the tax men.
Every time I'm asked for a SS#, I give them a nine didgit number I've made up at the time. Who says it has to be accurate? They want a number, they get a number.
our state legislature is drafting a bill to change the Indiana state constitution to not allow Gitmo detainees into our state after Obama 'closes the Jail'. A good use of the 35% of my income they get in taxes.
How would these gas tax devices work for someone who spreads 21k miles a year across 5 vehicles with an avg age of 12-13 yrs old? How is the tax assessed? per person, per tax return, per houshold? Seems like it would cost the gov't. the first ten years of tax intake just to get me 'hooked up'. Then can I just pull the power wire out and call it a dead battery? The Feds can't even afford the $40 coupon program for DTV.
And whats $140k in back taxes owed? An honest mistake for a guy making 5 million a year.
I prefer a simple reading of the odo when you renew your license.
Hey, you and I agree on something! :-)
This is much the best way. All that other stuff is needlessly complicated.
The next question becomes: since the insurance companies and the DMV are tied together by computer these days, would these odo readings then go back to the insurance companies? If so, and the actual miles driven exceeded your previous estimate, could they raise your rates?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So if we paid our road-tax at the DMV once a year based on the number of miles driven, then we don't need a tax at the pump. With the tax removed, I believe gasoline becomes cheaper.
All that other stuff is needlessly complicated.
All the proposals presented here have loopholes, and are needlessly complex, requiring a lot of bureaucracy.
Here's my tax proposal for the nation, following the KISS principal: use the current colection, set the gas tax = to the amount needed to maintain the roads and bridges, only use the gas tax for roads and bridges (no diversion to the General Fund). And eliminate the waste of administering tolls and the toll-workers nationwide. Eliminate every toll, tollworker, and their overhead nationwide. No more EasyPass transponders, bills, paperwork, no more tolls at the George washington, the Mass Pike ...
Have 1 simple collection at the pumps that payys for every road and bridge.
If so, and the actual miles driven exceeded your previous estimate, could they raise your rates?
And if the security camera at your work catches you eating a donut every snack-time, and a Big mac w/fries for lunch, maybe that could be forwarded to the health insurance provider and they'll raise your rates? Or do you think the insurance provider will demand you come in once a year to get weighed?
For anyone who's single and using Match.com or other dating service, maybe we need to forward our dating plans and schedule to the insurance companies for approval, to keep the risk of contracting a disease down. I'm sure someone here would argue that there's nothing wrong with that as it is for the good of the individual and society (keep a person healthy, working, and not having medical bills).
Do you get the idea I'M SICK OF HEARING THESE IDEAS of having to provide information and possibly control of our lives over to some self-inflicted, wasteful bureaucracy! :mad: :mad:
That sounds like a good idea if the politicians could leave it where it belongs, road and bridge maintenance. But as soon as they had a little surplus for the roads instead of saving it they would have to spend it or use it somewhere else. I have been doing road construction for 13 years. I remember one interstate crack sealing job, we sealed all the cracks and the state inspector told us to "make some cracks." In other words, "Waste the rest of your material and the state will pay you for it, if we don't spend all the money that our county was given for maintenance we won't get as much next year." I was shocked. I couldn't believe they throw money away like that. That was the stupidest thing I had ever heard. But it kinda makes sense from the states point of view, after he explained it to me The whole tax system is screwed up from the way it is collected to the way it is handed out.
"I've got news for you folks, some people CAN'T cut back, they CAN'T buy a hybrid and they CAN'T pay any more taxes. If you insist on raising the price of gas get ready to start paying for more welfare as well. "
This is probably the best argument I have read so far against raising the gas tax.
oldfarmer50 says, "I've got news for you folks, some people CAN'T cut back, they CAN'T buy a hybrid and they CAN'T pay any more taxes. If you insist on raising the price of gas get ready to start paying for more welfare as well."
Well, the majority of people in that situation are ALREADY on welfare.
And people can adapt, too. Think about what retirees have to do, retirees without a nest egg, of which there are many retiring every year: My mom went from making about $2500 a month down to $806 a month when she retired and went on social security.
She adapted. Fewer frills. Moved into low-cost housing. Cut back on expenses.
I know the term "you can't get blood from a turnip" and some folks will hit that wall at some point.
But you can't, as a guvmint which needs money to survive and to pay it's social obligations, just say, "OK We are broke, America. Deal With It."
You know the poor guys on wallstreet are going to have a hard time adapting to $400,000 a year. Part of that is my money, I say cut them back to 40,000 that is closer to what I make. No new taxes, cut spending like everyone else in America is doing, and will continue to do for a long time!!!!
"My mom went from making about $2500 a month down to $806 a month when she retired and went on social security.
Hopefully your Mom built up a savings &/or investment account during her productive years because the first word of the Social Security Act is Supplemental.
I can't wait to hear how the Wall Street Executives adapt to their pay cut to 400k. Since I am paying taxes which will be used to pay these people I would like to see their paycut to 40k that is more like what I make.
I can't wait to hear how the Wall Street Executives adapt to their pay cut to 400k
The news is telling us one of the ways they are adapting is by giving 18 Billion in Bonuses. Our increased fuel tax would have to go to help pay that first 350 Billion in bailout that allowed them to pay such bonuses because they were broke and couldn't afford it before. But it is ok because some in here trust that the taxes will go to help people afford a new fuel efficient car.
I saw Mr. Obama on MSNBC earlier someone asked him about tax relief for Hoolywood movie producers. He said "The things the Senators disagree on amounts to only 1% of the total recovery pakage. The main thing right now is getting it passed." If my calculations are correct "only 1%" of 850 billion is approximately only about 85 billion. I think he might be trying to minimize just a little. :sick:
That is only $8.5 billion. And yes Obama is dreaming. His Stimulus plan is so loaded with Pork they should name it Miss Piggy. It is worse than the $700B bill for Pork. Congress is owned by special interest and this is a chance to pay back some of the debt. They will be fighting about it come next election. The amount left for roads and bridges will be insignificant by the time that bunch of thieves are done.
I cannot believe anyone could want to give them more money to waste.
The problem is that the monster is at the gate and the tax more people are trying to kill it by tossing money at it with a catapult.
There was a very funny commercial a few years ago where a bunch of midevil men were sitting around a table talking about a giant sloth attacking the village. when the leader asked for suggestions on how to fight it one of the men tossed a large sack of money on the table. Everyone looked at him like he was a fool. It was supposed to be funny but that is just what is being done today. And some want to toss more tax money at the problem?
I guess these suggestions are just depressing at a time when we as a nation have real problems far in excess of who is driving what. People are losing their jobs and their homes and people simply aren't interested in getting a new car. And we would even entertain the idea that we hit someone with a tax to try and get them to buy what they can't afford anyway? When did we turn into a nation that hates our neighbors that much? When did we turn on ourselves?
At least so far we have a chance to vote on most of these things and we can vote against the people that suggest these things.
Comments
That is not true for me at all. I would love to have a PU that gets 45 MPG. The State of CA has virtually blocked that type vehicle from being sold here. I can now get an SUV that will get 30 MPG if I want to spend $60k and lose a bunch on my current 15 MPG SUV. It is not the consumer that has kept out high mileage vehicles. It is the Feds and CARB. The impasse is between the consumer and the regulators. Adding more tax will not make it easier to use less.
http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/January_2009_gasoline_and_diesel_- summary_pages.pdf
That is even creepier than the photo radar. Hi government, can you do me a favor and track my whereabouts and comings and goings. Maybe charge me more if I used roads during peak periods (adding to congestion) and also if I am in a bad part of town late at night you can charge more because of the necessary police presence, and track what vehicles are close to eachother...
Yeah, no thanks.
That makes Oregon even more weird then California. No wonder everyone in CA and WA pick on them.
Maybe Oregon can go in with Progressive and not only will you pay your gas tax by the mile, but you can pay your insurance by the mile too (with a hefty surcharge for repeated speeding).
You should be sure to tell Larsb about that part.
Can I just have them track my whereabouts at all times and if I am not in my assigned region it can have the police from sector B come and try to kill me with laser beams? That'd be hawt.
Pay As You Drive
I only drive my Outback about 5,000 miles a year, so the idea does have some appeal. But it's not available here. But they do offer it next door in Oregon. The gizmo hooks up to your OBDII connector and transmits speed, time of day and number of miles the car is driven. There's no GPS tracking.
PS
My Farmers gives my a big discount for driving less than 7000 miles per year.
On the other hand, I am fine with flight recorder/black boxes in vehicles. I feel like once you screw up and impact someone else's life, then you lose some of your rights to privacy, etc. I think that is also why I am a fan of secondary enforcement for driver distraction related issues.
So yeah, you could take that info and generally figure out where people have been driving, even though Progressive says they don't do that.
WA gas tax is high to subsidize their magnificent ferry system. It should be self supporting, but it is not.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
January 5, 2009
PORTLAND, Ore. — For years, Oregon has been diligent about reducing the state's dependence on fossil fuels, but its environmental consciousness has come at a big price—gas tax revenues are down $4.8 million a year compared with 2006.
A state task force will look at equipping every new vehicle in the state with a Global Positioning System tracking device to quietly record every mile driven and where. Motorists would pay at the gas pump based on how much they drove, no matter how fuel-frugal their vehicle.
While Oregon appears to be out in front in looking at a mileage fee, several other states, including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Florida, Rhode Island, Minnesota and Texas, have also expressed an interest in phasing out the gas tax in favor of charging motorists for how much they drive.
The Oregon proposal already is running into opposition from some drivers who say it would discriminate against rural residents who may have to drive several miles just to get to the grocery store and raise inevitable privacy concerns with Big Brother keeping a satellite watch over where everyone is driving.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-oregon-gasjan05,0,6018141.sto- ry
Wonder how Oregon citizens/drivers feel about this issue and ramifications of misuse of data to track peoples's movements.
Gas tax, to extent a state wants it, is easiest to run. States already do it, no new technology and extra costs are needed.
So there will never be a situation where they would be lying if they said "no tracking information is being kept" if they can merely explain why it's not.
Besides - who cares if my insurance company knows "where" I drove to? If I'm not doing anything illegal, what harm could come from some clerk at Progressive knowing:
Lars drove 16 miles on Chandler Blvd
then turned left onto Dobson Road
then stopped at 1517 Dobson for two hours.
then drove 14 miles north on Dobson Road
then stopped for 10 minutes at 18715 Dobson Road
Who gives a darn about that information?
Over a number of gas purchases, the State database/software would determine if miles driven and gas purchases are within bounds for MPG ratings of vehicle. If significant mismatch indicating lots of gas purchased, but small amount of miles travelled, then car/vehicle owner will get letter asking to bring vehicle in to some kind of State dot for inspection.
Well if you're in sales, or an executive in business, you've then given your schedule (especially who you visited) to a 3rd party. What's in the law to keep them from selling that information? Also, even if they can't sell the info., do you think Progressive's computer security system is impervious to hacking?
I can see my next vehicle might need to be a kit-car that I build myself.
So they'll be bringing in every landscaping company in Oregon regularly? Or anyone with a snowmobile, boat (most people who tow fillup at stations not marinas), or ATV? It sounds already like it's getting really complicated, and a lot of records need to be kept. The time people would need to divert to answer these questions and the state workers asking them is WASTE.
Also: You really need to consider if you think more and more questioning and rules from government is the way you want to go. Or do you think it's no big deal that the DOT can tell you to come down to their office M-F 8-5 (take time off from work?), wait in line, and bring records with you to prove that you used gasoline legally and did not alter the tracking device on the vehicle? No big deal right? As long as it doesn't conflict with the city inspector coming out to your house to see if you haven't tampered with the temp. limit controls on your HVAC?
Thats' your choice; I don't want anyone making that choice for me. You can put your schedule, credit card numbers and social security number all over the Internet; that's your choice, not mine.
I give info. to the government, insurance and banks only as needed. I applied for automatic deleivery of heating oil last week at a small local dealer, and they asked for a SS#. NO WAY, as they may lay the clerk off next week, who has previously downloaded the database onto a portable drive (doesn't get paid enough, or has a drug addiction and needs $), and 1-2 months later you'll find your identity was sold.
In this day and age your really stupid for giving out any information not absolutely necessary and required. It's not that you're doing something criminal, it's that people can use information to make you a victim of crime.
Simplest method to collect taxes for roads/bridges is present method of paying tax when you buy gas. A supplementary method to get more funds is to tax by vehicle weight. In Illinois, one pays $78/year for license plate tag renewal regardless of vehicle weight. So, a gargantuan 5000+ pound Suburban pays the same as a tiny Honda Fit. The Fit barely touches the pavement while the Suburban pounds away and causes more pavement wear. The more your vehicle weighs, then the more you should pay in yearly license fee. If you can afford a Suburban, then you can afford to pay substantially more in yearly license fee.
Might also come in handy at divorce time. I prefer a simple reading of the odo when you renew your license. Add the charge on at that time. If they plan on charging 1.5 cents per mile that is $225 for the average 15k mile per year driver.
KISS :shades:
But for the more paranoid of you: this technology has been around for years, and I have never heard of any instances of the data getting into the wrong people's hands. Have you?
I've HAVE seen it used for GOOD, like when the cops tracked that dude who murdered his wife and found out where he had dumped the body.
Don't really care if using "Preferred Card" at food store and they are tracking my bread, milk, coffee, vegetable purchases. Obviously, all would agree about some store asking for SS#. Some years ago, when switching to a new cell phone provider, the clerk in an authorized cell phone provider store asked me to fill in my SS on application form. I refused, got up to walk out, the clerk called the owner of store, and owner said that I did not have to provide SS.
Here in land of Blago, Rezko, Daley, the Messiah, Illinois Tollway users can pay cash or open an account and put transponder on windsheild and get one-half the toll rate. Tolls debited to account as you drive through toll stations. Then, you can view your account details at Tollway website. It shows complete details: location of toll station, lane number, date, time of day, amount of toll debited.
Sometimes I wonder if there are not some people at Tollway office or otherwise in the State mulling how they can use this data beyond simple accounting.
It's a series of location tracking information, which when "untied" from the person would be useless.
We at my company could set up an internal database, completely detached from the Internet, which would keep the identity of the person completely separate from the insurance policy number.
The key of the file would be setup where even if a hacker got both databases, they would have a hard time matching up the tracking data to the right person.
And if we decided to keep the person's name and address in a different database from the policy number, NEVER would a hacker be able to put the data together in a usable form.
Keep the files in different file systems with different access permissions.
If a little company like mine has the personnel and system capability to do that, surely the insurance companies also do.
The largest population base lives on the WA border. Just cross over the bridge and fill up. Same goes for WA drivers, many who cross over to Portland because Oregon has no sales tax. Think like a politician and you will come up with a sleazy way to avoid taxes. Just ask Tom Daschle.
Every time I'm asked for a SS#, I give them a nine didgit number I've made up at the time. Who says it has to be accurate? They want a number, they get a number.
How would these gas tax devices work for someone who spreads 21k miles a year across 5 vehicles with an avg age of 12-13 yrs old? How is the tax assessed? per person, per tax return, per houshold? Seems like it would cost the gov't. the first ten years of tax intake just to get me 'hooked up'. Then can I just pull the power wire out and call it a dead battery? The Feds can't even afford the $40 coupon program for DTV.
And whats $140k in back taxes owed? An honest mistake for a guy making 5 million a year.
Hey, you and I agree on something! :-)
This is much the best way. All that other stuff is needlessly complicated.
The next question becomes: since the insurance companies and the DMV are tied together by computer these days, would these odo readings then go back to the insurance companies? If so, and the actual miles driven exceeded your previous estimate, could they raise your rates?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
All that other stuff is needlessly complicated.
All the proposals presented here have loopholes, and are needlessly complex, requiring a lot of bureaucracy.
Here's my tax proposal for the nation, following the KISS principal: use the current colection, set the gas tax = to the amount needed to maintain the roads and bridges, only use the gas tax for roads and bridges (no diversion to the General Fund). And eliminate the waste of administering tolls and the toll-workers nationwide. Eliminate every toll, tollworker, and their overhead nationwide. No more EasyPass transponders, bills, paperwork, no more tolls at the George washington, the Mass Pike ...
Have 1 simple collection at the pumps that payys for every road and bridge.
And if the security camera at your work catches you eating a donut every snack-time, and a Big mac w/fries for lunch, maybe that could be forwarded to the health insurance provider and they'll raise your rates? Or do you think the insurance provider will demand you come in once a year to get weighed?
For anyone who's single and using Match.com or other dating service, maybe we need to forward our dating plans and schedule to the insurance companies for approval, to keep the risk of contracting a disease down. I'm sure someone here would argue that there's nothing wrong with that as it is for the good of the individual and society (keep a person healthy, working, and not having medical bills).
Do you get the idea I'M SICK OF HEARING THESE IDEAS of having to provide information and possibly control of our lives over to some self-inflicted, wasteful bureaucracy! :mad: :mad:
I have been doing road construction for 13 years. I remember one interstate crack sealing job, we sealed all the cracks and the state inspector told us to "make some cracks." In other words, "Waste the rest of your material and the state will pay you for it, if we don't spend all the money that our county was given for maintenance we won't get as much next year."
I was shocked. I couldn't believe they throw money away like that. That was the stupidest thing I had ever heard. But it kinda makes sense from the states point of view, after he explained it to me
The whole tax system is screwed up from the way it is collected to the way it is handed out.
This is probably the best argument I have read so far against raising the gas tax.
Well, the majority of people in that situation are ALREADY on welfare.
And people can adapt, too. Think about what retirees have to do, retirees without a nest egg, of which there are many retiring every year: My mom went from making about $2500 a month down to $806 a month when she retired and went on social security.
She adapted. Fewer frills. Moved into low-cost housing. Cut back on expenses.
I know the term "you can't get blood from a turnip" and some folks will hit that wall at some point.
But you can't, as a guvmint which needs money to survive and to pay it's social obligations, just say, "OK We are broke, America. Deal With It."
You gotta keep the revenue flowing in.
No new taxes, cut spending like everyone else in America is doing, and will continue to do for a long time!!!!
Hopefully your Mom built up a savings &/or investment account during her productive years because the first word of the Social Security Act is Supplemental.
The news is telling us one of the ways they are adapting is by giving 18 Billion in Bonuses. Our increased fuel tax would have to go to help pay that first 350 Billion in bailout that allowed them to pay such bonuses because they were broke and couldn't afford it before. But it is ok because some in here trust that the taxes will go to help people afford a new fuel efficient car.
I guess we learned nothing from 1929.
loses safe driver discount.
If my calculations are correct "only 1%" of 850 billion is approximately only about 85 billion. I think he might be trying to minimize just a little. :sick:
I cannot believe anyone could want to give them more money to waste.
There was a very funny commercial a few years ago where a bunch of midevil men were sitting around a table talking about a giant sloth attacking the village. when the leader asked for suggestions on how to fight it one of the men tossed a large sack of money on the table. Everyone looked at him like he was a fool. It was supposed to be funny but that is just what is being done today. And some want to toss more tax money at the problem?
I guess these suggestions are just depressing at a time when we as a nation have real problems far in excess of who is driving what. People are losing their jobs and their homes and people simply aren't interested in getting a new car. And we would even entertain the idea that we hit someone with a tax to try and get them to buy what they can't afford anyway? When did we turn into a nation that hates our neighbors that much? When did we turn on ourselves?
At least so far we have a chance to vote on most of these things and we can vote against the people that suggest these things.