What Does Subaru Know That Others Don't?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is it a concept and doesn't even have an upgraded engine.

    I think this is more of an SPT catalog item than a new model.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Subie hawtness

    Man I would love to this one come to market unchanged but I won't get my hopes up :( Still a fantastic looking concept :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like it, too. Bob had e-mailed me that photo.

    I love the front and rear views. From the side, the flares are a bit exaggerated, but this is a concept, after all.

    I hope the production model stays true to this concept.

    Also, they imply it is a through-the-road AWD system, well, I wonder if the motor will power the front axle or the rear axle only? Electric power only to the other axle, I read.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    All recent posts here look pretty much like cgi dreams to me.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Subaru Advanced Tourer Concept is an awesome angry wagon

    Unfortunately, with Subies releases lately, the concept gets watered down... alot. I'm hopeful that this one will be different but I'm not holding my breath. Still, the good news is maybe Subie will bring back the Legacy wagon! :D
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    Gorgeous! I really like those wheels, too, despite their being oversized for the car.

    We'll never see anything like it on the road, but it sure holds promise, doesn't it?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJMember Posts: 10,379
    Bring back the Legacy wagon? Oh, please, oh please...... I would LOVE that.

    I suspect that would be the wife's next car. If they don't make it it's probably on to an Outback.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too much watering down when it came to the Impreza concept, but note that the BRZ turned out just fine.

    I don't expect the Legacy to look like that, but at least the concept is inspiring.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJMember Posts: 10,379
    Oh, I'd be stunned if it looked like that but am pulling for a return of the Legacy wagon.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    GT with a manual, please. ;)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited November 2011
    Well, as AJ said, the BRZ is pretty close to the concepts that were shown. That said, for this type of vehicle, real-world reality will set in negating some of the extreme styling aspects. Still, I'm sure it will be better than the current frumpy-looking Legacy and Outback.

    One thing in its favor: Kia and Hyundai have shown that really attractive cars will sell to mass-market customers—and Subaru knows that! That plus the current Legacy and Outback are a clear step backwards in terms of looks—and Subaru knows that as well.

    So the pressure is on the Subaru decision-makers to let the designers do what they do best—design!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2011
    The current Legacy and Outback easily outsell the outgoing model, though likely due to size, not styling.

    Still, when the 2005 Legacy came out, people called it boring, Camry-like. Then again people complain no matter what Subaru does. I'm surprised few are complaining about the BRZ, first non-controversial looking new product I can recall.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited November 2011
    They're outselling the old Legacy/Outback—in spite of their styling, not because of it.

    The new cars are just better at being "family" vehicles; thanks to increased size, better content and pricing.

    Just imagine how well they would be selling if the styling was exceptional. The dealers would be sold out.

    Bob
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,013
    edited November 2011
    2005 Legacy was nothing like Camry. It was smaller and nimbler (which of course for many was a negative - not for me), it had a great looking wagon (2005 and 2006 - then discontinued). I was really disapointed with this new one. It's a barge. :( The specs etc. may be all good, but the size is not for me. OTOH Impreza is already too compact, both in terms of size and and equipment. Even current STI (I own 2008) is not exactly "premium" - $18K Impreza roots are visible.

    I really liked the older one, especially in GT trim, it was a true sports sedan/wagon, but I understand why they did what they did (pretty much same as Mazda). For one lost customer they probably picked up couple of new ones.

    All those things made me pony up additional 10 grand for 328 wagon w/ manual tranny :P .

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I didn't think that way, but those were the comments from the peanut gallery. The 05 model was very conservative, perhaps too much so.

    I happened to like it a lot.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    I thought the 05 was a big improvement over the outgoing model, very clean. The new one, too big and bulky looking.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Does your 328 have AWD? I would love to buy one of those but they are about as common as a Bugatti Veyron :(
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    +1000! :D
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    And this is a pretty cool video of the new BRZ (Not a fan of the name...)

    Subaru BRZ gets sideways to some adult contemporary in first film

    Looking forward to test driving this one!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    BRZ does remind one a bit of a Plymouth.

    Seems like Subaru and other companies have better luck tagging numbers and initials onto words, at least in North America. It's not the WRX, it's the Impreza WRX (or WRX STi). The B9X concept became the B9 Tribeca and then just the Tribeca.

    Most people in NA never say MX5; they drop that and just say Miata. But Audi and BMX get away with the hard to decipher names.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    I wonder if it will end up being nicknamed "Breeze", not the best association IMO - one of those lovely cars with stickers instead of actual emblems, IIRC.

    Yeah, BMX gets away with a lot, darn those Redline and Mongoose people :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think "Brazil", maybe because I was born there. Not a fan of the name, but it won't matter.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here's the time line of the peanut gallery's reactions to Subaru:

    1998: The Forester is just a tall wagon!
    2002: OMG what's with the bug eyes on the Impreza, and the rear looks like a Kia!
    2005: The Legacy looks like a Camry!
    2008: This new Impreza is so conservative, I miss the character of the bug-eye model!
    2009: This new Forester is just another SUV, I miss the old wagon!
    2012: Horrors! The old Legacy was the best looking sedan ever, now this?

    Simple fact: everyone's favorite design is one generation back. This is always the case, even as time goes on.

    The BRZ is shocking, absolutely SHOCKING, in terms of the lack of controversy. Besides whining about little things like wheel design, at least.
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    The BRZ is shocking, absolutely SHOCKING, in terms of the lack of controversy. Besides whining about little things like wheel design, at least.

    So everybody is OK with it not having AWD?? :P
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited December 2011
    I am... keeps the weight down and for a sports car with what, 5 inches of ground clearance, I wouldn't want to drive it in the snow anyways! :D

    In the tradition of "Hot" Subies, I would like to see the option for the trademark STIi Gold wheels tho, that would be killer.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,386
    Give it a turbo first, then the gold wheels. Do that, though, and I have to imagine the wing would come mandatory. :sick:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    What, you're not a high schooler or a chav? :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    1998: it was, right?
    2002: greatest crime was the loss of the coupe
    2008: the notchback sedan is almost Corolla-esque in its invisibility. I liked the weird bullnose Saab inbetween year Impreza, just to look at it and say "what the hell?".
    2012: Nobody will look back at the current Legacy as being a styling benchmark.

    BRZ is non-controversial because of the Toyota DNA and that it has been hyped up for so long, everyone has seen it before and become used to the overall shape.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Like rubbing salt into a wound. No, I HATE the fact that it's not AWD.

    Bob
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 16,561
    Impression off the bat, it's average but I don't think I'm in the intended audience.
    My guess is a 20 year old mustang/camaro with a couple of suspension mods could make it's life a challenge.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,013
    edited December 2011
    No, I actually did not want one.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What Toyota DNA?

    OK, they added DI tech (to a boxer), but it's even being made in Gunma Prefecture. Subaru said the Toyota staff were invited to attend some meetings only when they were needed.

    This is a Subaru at the core.

    And you guys are right, the controversy is the lack of AWD, not styling related.

    Look at it this way - what does it have in common with ANY other Toyota? Nothing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is probably closer, but I'm sure it will get cross-shopped with the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, 370Z, and maybe even G37c and 1 series.

    Heck, plus Miata, while I'm at it. I own a Miata and without a doubt that would have been cross-shopped had it been available.

    If it really does come in at $24k, it'll be a hit. That may be too cheap, and result in markups.

    TRD will supposedly offer a supercharges, but at 26xx lbs it shouldn't really need one. I think we're all used to bloated 3000+ lbs vehicles even when we're talking about compacts.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    The styling is more Toyota to my eyes, and the body of the car is what makes the impression. I can't believe Toyota had more or less zero input - but claiming so certainly couldn't help sales or image.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Big boats like the Challenger, V6 and V8 cars, prestige brands that cost 50% more? Nah, I don't know about that one. Maybe the prestige brands when they are about 3 years old. Miata though, I can believe, Scion tC for sure. Maybe even some sedans bought by people who want something like the Breeze but can't get it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    http://www.insideline.com/subaru/impreza/2012/2012-subaru-impreza-legacy-outback- -recalled-for-faulty-brake-pedal.html

    That will slow down Subaru sales a tad... including the new Impreza. At least they caught it early on the Impreza, before many cars hit the roads.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Indeed, Subaru engineered all the hard points, Toyota basically designed a body around that.

    I guess we're using the term DNA differently. DNA to me are the insides, which are pure Subaru.

    Toyota just did the surface.

    I hear Navi may be included at the $24k price. Get ready for markups.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just when they got the Gunma factory chugging along...not good. :(
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    There will have to be severe supply limits to get away with the ADM game, however...the economy isn't quite that strong in many areas, and younger buyers often have less money than they have in a long time. This thing won't sell to many boomers.

    I do like how Toyota had to hit up someone else to make a cool car. I also like the "Boxer" emblem I have seen pics of, it made me think of an "SS" symbol, and I don't mean the one on a Chevy. Funny.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For the BRZ the sales forecast is unusually low, IIRC 5-7k units annually. I think that estimate is nuts.

    Guess it depends on how many Toyota will get, will the US allocation be split 50/50 or what? Maybe 60/40 in favor of the one with bigger pockets?

    I like the boxer emblem also, and ironically it goes on the Scion!

    At least they did a good job with the overall shape and styling. The best part about it, despite a couple of iffy details, is that you can't say "that looks just like a ___".

    It's inspired by the 2000GT, early Z cars, the fenders seem familiar, but it does not look like any other car on the road, and that's cool.
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    edited December 2011
    I guess we're using the term DNA differently. DNA to me are the insides, which are pure Subaru.

    I'm so confused. If Subaru DNA includes AWD, where did the engineers hide the extra driveshafts??

    ;)

    Sorry, I'm just chuckling at diehard AWD Subaru fans praising love on a RWD Subaru. But I'm happy to see them accepting change.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good one...

    Toyota did add their DI, which I think is a good thing.

    Early reviews are positive towards the sounds and revving nature of the FA20, not something Subarus have been known for. Actually Subaru's been the opposite way for a while now, more torquey, less revs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Well they started life in the USA as a FWD, so now they've tried everything. They even seem to have hired a styling department after all these years.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    That is low. Initial demand will be double that at least. This thing has been hyped up for years and some no doubt have simply saved the cash to buy one.

    Allocation is a good question, I wonder over the life of the model which will be the better seller. Subaru will attract more sport minded people, but the RWD will be troublesome.

    I don't find it offensive, the design doesn't wow me, but there's not a lot to complain about. It's a hell of a lot cooler than a tC anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the Scion will outsell the Subaru roughly 2 to 1.

    Toyota has more dealers, a much bigger marketing budget, plus Subaru dealers are concentrated in snowy states and this is RWD.

    Tell you what, though, Florida and Texas Subaru dealers are dancing in the streets. I think we will see a bigger surge in more moderate climates.

    I like the styling, but I would have been happy to see the return of affordable RWD coupes even if it had been ugly. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Good point about the dealers. And although Subie has grown closer to mainstream IMHO, it is nothing like Toyota (and maybe should never be).

    Genesis coupe is affordable and RWD, and another one that although not pretty isn't offensive either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    it is nothing like Toyota (and maybe should never be)

    Hopefully. Amen.

    I was hoping the BRZ would get AWD, even if they did electric power to the front axle.

    Or...let Toyota do HSD versions of the platform-mates, while Subaru could market diesels.

    Genesis coupe is a car I thought I would like, but I hate that they used a Genesis name and didn't bring the much nicer interior from the sedan. It is such a disappointment when you sit in them side-by-side. Even if it had cost a lot more, it would have made more sense to me.

    Hyundai will add some nice powertrain upgrades now but for me it's too late. It needs a new interior.

    Supposedly the FT's interior is a bit nicer, plus the name doesn't promise things the interior can't deliver.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    A diesel coupe...that could be something, I think the MB C123 might have been the last one in this market.

    Hopefully for the Breeze, the interior won't be typical of some recent Toyotas.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thankfully they avoided the center-mounted Scion guages. Well, xA/xB/xD anyway.

    Can't stand those.

    Navi is standard, oddly. HIDs and torsen LSD.

    I think the Subaru engineers gave LSD to the Toyota bean counters for all that to happen. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,234
    Oh, center mounted gauges would have been a death knell, enthusiasts hate those. I wouldn't doubt if a Scion exec tried, though :confuse:

    I wonder if anything in the normal production Toyolex stable can even be equipped with LSD.">
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