The GTI will run on other fuel, but not well, and you will get dramatically better fuel economy from the high test... Although you may wish to consider another vehicle, if the High-test is not you cup of tea.
I'm kind of getting tired of people asking whether or not they can use regular gas.
The turbocharged engine in the GTI has a higher compression ratio than a standard run of the mill 4 cylinder engine. In order to achieve the higher working pressures in the engine, a higher octane is needed to prevent early detonation. Use regular gas and cylinders may fire too early, throwing off the engine timing and introducing engine knock. This scenario leads to high stress on internal engine components and leads to premature engine wear.
If the car was designed to run on 91 octane - so just give it 91 octane. I'm not a big fan of people running regular gas in a higher compression ratio engine till it pukes. If the extra 2 bucks per fill is too steep, then get a Golf...errr... Rabbit.
With the fluctuations in gas prices over the past year in my area (Washington DC) premium gas (91 octane) has remained steady at 15 cents above the regular grade (87 octane) price. When regular gas increases in price, premium gas has been going up in parallel - always costing about 15 cents more. I don't think one has to worry about premium fuel costing outrageously more than regular (unless there is a big time fuel shortage).
The turbocharged 4 cylinder engine gives you the performance of a V6 with the economy of a 4 banger. Since most of my driving is city/suburbs I save quite a bit on gas operating the GTI as opposed to a V6 mustang which runs on regular.
If you make an assumption of 28 MPG combined for the GTI, then if you assume that premium gas is 20c more per gallon, you will spend an extra $100 in that year.
I am amazed too -- the manufacturer makes octane recommendations for a reason. I don't really see why everyone cares so much about that $100 a year considering a $22-28k car purchase.
Yes, and what amzes me even more are the schnooks who spend upwards of 60 Grand for a Mercedes diesel ... just so they can save a few bucks on gas. Then, they have to listen to that clatter day in and day out, live with the noxious exhaust fumes (I know, they are getting better), and finally, drive around searching for a diesel station. :confuse:
In NE, most gas stations only have 89 or 93 Octane gas, and no 91 Octane, is it harmful for the engine to fill in 93 instead of 91 or its just waste money for GTI Turbo engines that requires min. 91 Octane.
Using 93 octane over 91 won't hurt the engine, but it is a waste of money. If you can find 91, there is no reason to use the 93 instead. However it is definately better to use an octane that is too high rather than too low. Some people claim better performance or fuel economy with 93, but I think it is bull (but honestly I haven't tried it). One section is the link below addresses this.
An interesting thing to note is that octane is a linear additive. By mixing equal parts 89 and 93 you get 91. But don't take my word for it, check out this website:
It has basically everything you ever wanted to know about octane. To save you some trouble here is the blurb about mixing octanes...
6.15 Can I mix different octane fuel grades?
Yes, however attempts to blend in your fuel tank should be carefully planned. You should not allow the tank to become empty, and then add 50% of lower octane, followed by 50% of higher octane. The fuels may not completely mix immediately, especially if there is a density difference. You may get a slug of low octane that causes severe knock. You should refill when your tank is half full. In general the octane response will be linear for most hydrocarbon and oxygenated fuels eg 50:50 of 87 and 91 will give 89.
...or in our case 50:50 89 and 93 will give 91... check out the last paragraph in my post number 1159 in this forum. I'd show you the link I based that on but I can't find it...
On a separate note I gave my GTI some gallop time past 100 mph. Felt solid, but it was still quite exciting. For some reason my ride is like a wildlife magnet...I've inadvertantly run over 3 squirrels and had near misses with three rabbits and a few birds. I guess I'm getting the drop on them or something. Stupid wildlife, my fast doesn't like to stop!
So you will put only 91 into your GTI. Have you upgrade your brake or suspension or air flow? I used to fill only 93 to my VR6 for the past year, now I will try to mix the 93 and 87 using the formula of (miles driven X 0.033 to get the gallon of 93 to be filled, then I fill 93 first, and the remaining tank I will fill 87 until its full, this is the cheapest way to ge 91. This is based on the fact that I always get 20-20.5 mpg for every tank. I have not noticed any difference in power output or fuel efficiency for using 93 or 91.
I plan on leaving it stock. For normal daily use I doubt I'd notice any changes in the brake/suspension/airflow. On my last car I put in a cold air intake. I noticed a small increase in performance but overall I'm not sure it was worth it. I've noticed a lot of mods end up being transparent - you install them and you forget them. The only thing I might add would be a boost gauge. I need to check to see what that does to my warranty...
Right now I am worrying about the braking of my 04 Jetta VR6 which has tiny rear brake rotors, and the brake seems to feel spongy at the later part of the braking, do you feel spongy when you try to brake hard in your GTI VR6 or 1.8T? I may try EBC green brake pad if they will help. Talking about 100 mph, I usually drive at Delaware I95 at that speed if the traffic is clear.
i just bought the consumer reports summer car buyer's guide, and it predicted that overall reliability would be below average. it looks like it was based more or less solely on its electrical issues.
being a non-vw owner, i have no idea what kind of electrical issues vws have. i've heard that the worst of it actually is only that the check engine light comes on when you don't tighten the gas cap enough, for some reason. do any of you new MkV owners have any similar issues with your GTIs yet? i know it's only been out for like three months stateside, but i was wondering if you've had any problems at all.
i was also wondering about the real-world gas efficiency of the vehicle. there probably has been a lot of posts about this already, but consumer reports' june issue gave them 25 mpg in mixed driving. given that i drive roughly 75% hwy, could i expect the same kind of performance? would it be worthwhile to own this car?
After 2 months of ownership I've had no problems or funnys whatsoever. To get a better cross section of the GTI community check out: www.vwvortex.com
I believe the GTI threads are contained in the Golf MkV forum area. You can also check out the 2006 jetta forums here on insideline since many of the components are shared between models.
Yeah, it's no secret VW reliability has been a turd in the last decade. However I think the company has been working to shed that reputation. I guess I'll find out if I was right in the next 5 years.
As for the mileage, I'd say if you have an efficient driving style (i.e. if you get close to epa numbers in your current car), you should get around 27-29 mpg with 75% highway.
My last half tank had 55% highway and 45% suburban driving and I got 27.5 mpg. The GTI (like all cars) will get really crummy mileage with a cold engine. The only time I see below the epa numbers is when I do a trip less than 5 miles.
what does the "reliability" issue entail? besides the obvious things, such as doing my preventative maintenance on time, using the right octane fuel, and not crashing it, what else should i worry about? i don't know what previous GTI models are like - everyone loves their VW, but they consistently seem to get the same reliability issues. how often can i expect to have to bring it into the shop?
Happy to report that I'm now an official MkV owner! Now I've been studying my manual carefully these past few days but have not found any explanation of the valet key. Are there any restrictions when using this key or is it essentially the same as the main owner keys? (Minus the switchblade and remote arm/disarm features.)
Anyone who buys anything based on Consumer Reports is an idiot! Sorry, but it's true. They don't know diddly squat about cars and their so-called reliability ratings are pulled out of thin air in order to sell magazines. Supposedly, they are based on surveys of their subsciber/owners. I subscribed to CR for years and was never once asked to submit my opinion. Furthermore, based on many years' personal experience with products they recommended and said to avoid, I can only conclude that they full of ____.
I agree that Consumer Reports distorts information. If the Consumer Reports stats are based on user reviews, what is the sampling base? There aren't that many GTIs bought in the US each year - how many of these drivers are being polled by Consumer Reports?? 1000? 500?? 10?? 3?! Consumer Reports doesn't say how many people participated. As the sampling base shrinks, the statistical error goes up.
Consumer Reports also does not define what they consider to be a 'serious problem'. The reader when filling out the survey decides what he/she considers to be serious.
I have leased the following: 1995 VW Cabrio 1998 Passat 1.8T 2001 GTI 2003 Passat 1.8T Wagon
We have had no significant electrical problems with the 4 cars.
The GTI had the electric window lifts fail @ 18,000 miles, inconvient, but warranty repaired. Passat Sedan had a fuel pump problem, covered. Passat Wagon had heated seat and fuel pump problems, covered under recall program. Overall, I find the cars to be reliable, but there is wear over 45k and the ride is not as tight at turn in.
As to MPG, the GTI can get excellent mileage if you use the trip computer and try real hard. But, it is simply too much fun to drive. I accelerate entirely differently in my 2005 A4 1.8T. I actually get 3 MPGs more than the GTI despite > weight and the quattro AWD. But, it is a smoother luxury ride and I just don't have the impulse to hop on it like I did in the GTI.
And, I missed the POWER. I got a great deal on the last of the small mouth, 1.8T, A4s. My next car, if I was shopping today, would be a 2.0T GLI and the lease would be $50/mos higher than the Audi. I'd miss the AWD, but the car would be approximately the same size and I expect I'd enjoy the additional 10% HP.
As a former 2001 GTI owner I can attest to the fact that it was a piece of garbage. Electrical problems (Alarm, Door, Starter), Coils replaced THREE TIMES! I will NEVER buy another VW.
I had a '98 Jetta.. it had alarm problems, door lock problems and the car shorted out about 4 times when I drove through large puddles. Yeah, puddles. I bought a '06 GTI 2 months ago and I'm really, really hoping they've fixed those problems...
I had a Rabbit back in the 70s and never had a problem in 150,000 miles. Then I had an 87 Golf GT, sort of a 4 door GTI. Put 100,000 miles on it without any problems. After about 50k, I kept getting a low compression reading on one of the cylinders but it ran well and ran strong until I sold it in 1994. Had a 97 Passat GLX VR6 wagon and it was a joy to drive. After the warranty ran out, it started having all sorts of electrical problems (ABS system, horn, cruise control, rear window wiper motor, etc.) I think I had nearly 100k miles on it when I decided to sell it. I bought a Suzuki Verona after the Passat in 2004, and if you listen to the whiners and Consumers Reports the Verona is a lemon. I haven't had one problem (knock on wood.) It is probably the smoothest and quietest car I have ever owned. However, I know my wife would love the new GTI when it comes with 4 doors. A red hatchback would suit her just fine. I am sure I would enjoy it too. I can get one for $200 over MSRP in Oregon. Still a little nervous about those electrical problems with the Passat. I may go for it, though, if the "fast" bug bites me hard enough.
Business Week posted a letter from a user responding to their article about VW's new advertiser. The user mentioned the usual...major problems with his Jetta and little VW support.
Meanwhile, WARDS AUTOMOTOVE announced VW has announced the R32 with V6 and around 256 HP will be reappearing on our shores in July 2007. That is the only major VW introduction for 2007.
Get your checkbooks bulked up...your smiling VW dealer's in heaven with the ADM they'll get for this one!
While it would be nice for VW to rank high in J. D. Power, not even BMW achieves this (despite good general reliability ratings). This particular survey values things like "design issues" and "perception of quality" at the same level as actual defects - and all of that in the first 90 days of ownership. New releases (several VWs are not even counted, because they were not out yet) traditionally have a hard time with this survey - both because they introduce new, unknown features, and because they usually have some teething problems that get fixed within the first year.
OK - I just checked the J.D. Power site - they have no rating yet for the MkV GTI because the model "is too new". From previous reviews, VWs had at most twice as many complaints as the best rated cars. Even that I find acceptable, given what you get in the total package. I guess it depends on your priorities...
I'm considering buying a 2003 GTI w/45000 miles. Took it for a test drive. 3 or 4 times during the drive a humming/buzzing/whirring sound (sorry, hard to describe) would come on for maybe 3 seconds, then stop. Kind of sounded like a small electric motor was running, but it was so random & brief that it was hard to zero in on. The dealer (not a vw dealer) had no idea what it was. Also, when we shut the engine off, there was a sound like a fan or something running down. Turbo? Something else? I have no experience with vw or turbos, so this is all new to me. Thanks for any help.
A pity that one has to choose between driveability and reliability.
I would phrase it as "... between a great package of luxury, comfort, attention to design detail, performance, and handling --- and a small, but liveable decrease in reliability, on the other hand". YMMV.
PS: Getting close to a combined 250,000 miles on my current two VWs. Only (combined, two-car) problems in the past 80,000 miles: a small oil leak covered under warranty; and a failed windshield wiper motor and wheel bearing that both were fixed for very little money (plus got a free oil change on top). Got a free loaner for the oil leak; the other stuff took little time to fix.
I see that pulling stuff from thin air is a two-way street. Just because CR publishes data that you don't like or don't agree with doesn't mean it's a lie. I used to subscribe to CR and was polled several times about my cars. It was a very detailed process. They aren't an enthusiast magazine but never claimed to be. If a car rides rough and is noisy, they say so. If it's a performance car it's no less a fact. It's up to you to decide if that's acceptable.
I once owned a VW GTI and I won't go into the litany of issues I had with that car. But I still liked it when it wasn't making me scream at it, so I understand the dedication to this brand. But you need to stop pretending the world is against poor little VW for no reason. Your experience may be different, but VW earned it's reputation fair and square - by making cars that broke far too often for far too many people. It's not a bias, it's a fact. Even VW's management has said they need to cut warranty related costs by 50% to be competitive! If not for a relatively small core of diehard buyers, they might have left the U.S. market years ago.
And it's not just CR. Nearly every car mag review of a VW product I've read recently ends with something like "If VW can address their reliability issues..." It's common knowledge.
VW has been selling cars in the U.S. for a MUCH longer time than a company like Hyundai. Hyundai's early cars were a sad joke in terms of quality and reliability. But with a dedicated focus on making better cars, they have vaulted past VW in a few short years. Why? They build cars that people like, can afford, and recommend to others. Are they as fun to drive? No way. But that wasn't the priority. VW has had ages to build a reputation here and yet they sell a fraction of what Hyundai does. They have no one else to blame - and neither do you.
I hope VW gets it's act together because they build cars for enthusiasts. I look at every new model. That's why I'm looking in this forum. But even the most dedicated enthusiasts expect basic reliability for more than a short time. Having the flatbed guy on speed dial is something most people won't tolerate - and shouldn't have to. That's why VW is still on the fringe. It's not because of Consumer Reports.
thank you so much for this post. it's really helpful - i'm trying to make my decision on what i want to buy, so i want to get as much information as possible. i really appreciate it!
Anyone know how much more VW will be asking for 4-door GTI's over 2-door versions? I would really prefer a 4-door, but I am not willing to pay $2,000 more than a 2-door as is the case with the Rabbit. :confuse:
I really, really want VW to produce better cars. I think the GTI's very cool, and it would #1 on my list, but for their repair history.
Here is, withouth a doubt, the best perspective on VW that I've ever read, anywhere.
Mechanics Tale: VW, Heal Thyself
Luckily, as in politics, nothing good ever comes out of smearing your competition with unfounded, poorly-researched, transparent campaigns --- especially, when the source of money is easily traced.
Luckily, as in politics, nothing good ever comes out of smearing your competition with unfounded, poorly-researched, transparent campaigns --- especially, when the source of money is easily traced.
The author of that article is an auto mechanic. If anything, he has more to gain by having more VW's on the road.
Perhaps I'm missing your point; what, exactly, are you implying? Please be specific.
I don't know why everyone thinks VW's are poor quality. I know plenty of people who drive VW's and none of them have experienced even a vibrating interior panel. If your worried about quality I would tell you to stay away from Ford's, Hyundai's, Subaru's, and any Chrysler product except the Jeep Wrangler. Give me a VW any day.
"Do a search for "defective coil pack VW" on Google - you'll get 16,600 hits. Change it to "bad coil pack VW", and you get 83,000 hits."
"Do another search on "broken window lift problem VW" - I get 175,000 hits."
So what does that prove? Type in "Toyota sucks" and you get 680,000 hits. Better yet, type in "Toyota bad transmission" and you get 1,450,000 hits. Type in "bad transmission Toyota" and you get 1,460,000 hits. You know Google picks out any site that has a combination of those words right? In fact, a site doesn't even have to have all the words in the search to show up as a hit.
Now I'm not one to be blinded by brand loyalty. I tried that once with Dodge and it got me two bad transmissions. VW's problem is they, like all the other automakers, are putting too much gimicky, electronic crap in their cars.
Plus VW shouldn't be trying to move up-market. The Phaeton, while a supurb automobile and a bargain in it's class, is proof of that.
But in terms of actual people I know, hands down VW people are the most pleased with their cars and none have experienced problems. So far relying on that type of data has been working for me and I'll stick with it. :shades:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
Your limited sampling of "actual people I know" probably isn't valid, statistically-speaking. Check Consumer Reports. Check enthusiast websites like VWVortex - even there, you'll see tons of posts on the coil pack and window lift problems.
I TOTALLY agree with you about the "electronic crap" in cars!
It's going to be sad, in 10-15 years, that nobody will be able to restore these things, because they won't have all the parts available to make all that stuff work.
I read an article about a guy with a 2002 Chevy Venture van, who can't get it fixed, because GM can't supply a replacement catalytic converter!!! link title
Can you imagine how hard it'll be to track down some really obscure part in a few years??
Re: the Phaeton - I've only seen a few on the road - I saw one last week, as a matter of fact. From what I've read, they're nice, but overweight. VW should never have made them, at least as a VW. Perhaps sold them as Audis?
I don't know where you get your reliability information from. But, VW has been in the pits for years. I have owned VW's and believe me, its true. Hyundai has improved 1000 percent and is rated much better than VW. Subaru is also rated good.
Comments
The turbocharged engine in the GTI has a higher compression ratio than a standard run of the mill 4 cylinder engine. In order to achieve the higher working pressures in the engine, a higher octane is needed to prevent early detonation. Use regular gas and cylinders may fire too early, throwing off the engine timing and introducing engine knock. This scenario leads to high stress on internal engine components and leads to premature engine wear.
If the car was designed to run on 91 octane - so just give it 91 octane. I'm not a big fan of people running regular gas in a higher compression ratio engine till it pukes. If the extra 2 bucks per fill is too steep, then get a Golf...errr... Rabbit.
With the fluctuations in gas prices over the past year in my area (Washington DC) premium gas (91 octane) has remained steady at 15 cents above the regular grade (87 octane) price. When regular gas increases in price, premium gas has been going up in parallel - always costing about 15 cents more. I don't think one has to worry about premium fuel costing outrageously more than regular (unless there is a big time fuel shortage).
The turbocharged 4 cylinder engine gives you the performance of a V6 with the economy of a 4 banger. Since most of my driving is city/suburbs I save quite a bit on gas operating the GTI as opposed to a V6 mustang which runs on regular.
I am amazed too -- the manufacturer makes octane recommendations for a reason. I don't really see why everyone cares so much about that $100 a year considering a $22-28k car purchase.
One reason to avoid buying used cars, heh.
-TA
An interesting thing to note is that octane is a linear additive. By mixing equal parts 89 and 93 you get 91. But don't take my word for it, check out this website:
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline6.html
It has basically everything you ever wanted to know about octane. To save you some trouble here is the blurb about mixing octanes...
6.15 Can I mix different octane fuel grades?
Yes, however attempts to blend in your fuel tank should be carefully planned. You should not allow the tank to become empty, and then add 50% of lower octane, followed by 50% of higher octane. The fuels may not completely mix immediately, especially if there is a density difference. You may get a slug of low octane that causes severe knock. You should refill when your tank is half full. In general the octane response will be linear for most hydrocarbon and oxygenated fuels eg 50:50 of 87 and 91 will give 89.
...or in our case 50:50 89 and 93 will give 91... check out the last paragraph in my post number 1159 in this forum. I'd show you the link I based that on but I can't find it...
On a separate note I gave my GTI some gallop time past 100 mph. Felt solid, but it was still quite exciting. For some reason my ride is like a wildlife magnet...I've inadvertantly run over 3 squirrels and had near misses with three rabbits and a few birds. I guess I'm getting the drop on them or something. Stupid wildlife, my fast doesn't like to stop!
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/preamble.html
part 3 is what I posted in the previous message, but this link has a few more questions/answers.
Enjoy
I used to fill only 93 to my VR6 for the past year, now I will try to mix the 93 and 87 using the formula of (miles driven X 0.033 to get the gallon of 93 to be filled, then I fill 93 first, and the remaining tank I will fill 87 until its full, this is the cheapest way to ge 91. This is based on the fact that I always get 20-20.5 mpg for every tank. I have not noticed any difference in power output or fuel efficiency for using 93 or 91.
:shades:
I hear there are lot of nice places on the MD eastern shore as well.
I plan on leaving it stock. For normal daily use I doubt I'd notice any changes in the brake/suspension/airflow. On my last car I put in a cold air intake. I noticed a small increase in performance but overall I'm not sure it was worth it. I've noticed a lot of mods end up being transparent - you install them and you forget them. The only thing I might add would be a boost gauge. I need to check to see what that does to my warranty...
i just bought the consumer reports summer car buyer's guide, and it predicted that overall reliability would be below average. it looks like it was based more or less solely on its electrical issues.
being a non-vw owner, i have no idea what kind of electrical issues vws have. i've heard that the worst of it actually is only that the check engine light comes on when you don't tighten the gas cap enough, for some reason. do any of you new MkV owners have any similar issues with your GTIs yet? i know it's only been out for like three months stateside, but i was wondering if you've had any problems at all.
i was also wondering about the real-world gas efficiency of the vehicle. there probably has been a lot of posts about this already, but consumer reports' june issue gave them 25 mpg in mixed driving. given that i drive roughly 75% hwy, could i expect the same kind of performance? would it be worthwhile to own this car?
thanks!
I believe the GTI threads are contained in the Golf MkV forum area. You can also check out the 2006 jetta forums here on insideline since many of the components are shared between models.
Yeah, it's no secret VW reliability has been a turd in the last decade. However I think the company has been working to shed that reputation. I guess I'll find out if I was right in the next 5 years.
As for the mileage, I'd say if you have an efficient driving style (i.e. if you get close to epa numbers in your current car), you should get around 27-29 mpg with 75% highway.
My last half tank had 55% highway and 45% suburban driving and I got 27.5 mpg. The GTI (like all cars) will get really crummy mileage with a cold engine. The only time I see below the epa numbers is when I do a trip less than 5 miles.
what does the "reliability" issue entail? besides the obvious things, such as doing my preventative maintenance on time, using the right octane fuel, and not crashing it, what else should i worry about? i don't know what previous GTI models are like - everyone loves their VW, but they consistently seem to get the same reliability issues. how often can i expect to have to bring it into the shop?
Happy to report that I'm now an official MkV owner! Now I've been studying my manual carefully these past few days but have not found any explanation of the valet key. Are there any restrictions when using this key or is it essentially the same as the main owner keys? (Minus the switchblade and remote arm/disarm features.)
Thanks in advance,
Tulio
The GTI, which is a sporty version of the VW Golf, is now the top-ranked sporty car under $25,000 among the 11 different coupes and sedans recently tested by Consumer Reports.
Consumer Reports also does not define what they consider to be a 'serious problem'. The reader when filling out the survey decides what he/she considers to be serious.
Here is a pretty good article by some good 'ol boys at allpar:
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
1995 VW Cabrio
1998 Passat 1.8T
2001 GTI
2003 Passat 1.8T Wagon
We have had no significant electrical problems with the 4 cars.
The GTI had the electric window lifts fail @ 18,000 miles, inconvient, but warranty repaired. Passat Sedan had a fuel pump problem, covered. Passat Wagon had heated seat and fuel pump problems, covered under recall program. Overall, I find the cars to be reliable, but there is wear over 45k and the ride is not as tight at turn in.
As to MPG, the GTI can get excellent mileage if you use the trip computer and try real hard. But, it is simply too much fun to drive. I accelerate entirely differently in my 2005 A4 1.8T. I actually get 3 MPGs more than the GTI despite > weight and the quattro AWD. But, it is a smoother luxury ride and I just don't have the impulse to hop on it like I did in the GTI.
And, I missed the POWER. I got a great deal on the last of the small mouth, 1.8T, A4s. My next car, if I was shopping today, would be a 2.0T GLI and the lease would be $50/mos higher than the Audi. I'd miss the AWD, but the car would be approximately the same size and I expect I'd enjoy the additional 10% HP.
There have been 3 instances where all of my Sirius presets have been completely erased and reset. Has anyone else experienced this issue?
Meanwhile, WARDS AUTOMOTOVE announced VW has announced the R32 with V6 and around 256 HP will be reappearing on our shores in July 2007. That is the only major VW introduction for 2007.
Get your checkbooks bulked up...your smiling VW dealer's in heaven with the ADM they'll get for this one!
:lemon:
maybe in '07 ? :shades:
OK - I just checked the J.D. Power site - they have no rating yet for the MkV GTI because the model "is too new". From previous reviews, VWs had at most twice as many complaints as the best rated cars. Even that I find acceptable, given what you get in the total package. I guess it depends on your priorities...
Also, when we shut the engine off, there was a sound like a fan or something running down. Turbo? Something else? I have no experience with vw or turbos, so this is all new to me.
Thanks for any help.
I would phrase it as "... between a great package of luxury, comfort, attention to design detail, performance, and handling --- and a small, but liveable decrease in reliability, on the other hand". YMMV.
PS:
Getting close to a combined 250,000 miles on my current two VWs. Only (combined, two-car) problems in the past 80,000 miles: a small oil leak covered under warranty; and a failed windshield wiper motor and wheel bearing that both were fixed for very little money (plus got a free oil change on top). Got a free loaner for the oil leak; the other stuff took little time to fix.
I once owned a VW GTI and I won't go into the litany of issues I had with that car. But I still liked it when it wasn't making me scream at it, so I understand the dedication to this brand. But you need to stop pretending the world is against poor little VW for no reason. Your experience may be different, but VW earned it's reputation fair and square - by making cars that broke far too often for far too many people. It's not a bias, it's a fact. Even VW's management has said they need to cut warranty related costs by 50% to be competitive! If not for a relatively small core of diehard buyers, they might have left the U.S. market years ago.
And it's not just CR. Nearly every car mag review of a VW product I've read recently ends with something like "If VW can address their reliability issues..." It's common knowledge.
VW has been selling cars in the U.S. for a MUCH longer time than a company like Hyundai. Hyundai's early cars were a sad joke in terms of quality and reliability. But with a dedicated focus on making better cars, they have vaulted past VW in a few short years. Why? They build cars that people like, can afford, and recommend to others. Are they as fun to drive? No way. But that wasn't the priority. VW has had ages to build a reputation here and yet they sell a fraction of what Hyundai does. They have no one else to blame - and neither do you.
I hope VW gets it's act together because they build cars for enthusiasts. I look at every new model. That's why I'm looking in this forum. But even the most dedicated enthusiasts expect basic reliability for more than a short time. Having the flatbed guy on speed dial is something most people won't tolerate - and shouldn't have to. That's why VW is still on the fringe. It's not because of Consumer Reports.
Here is, withouth a doubt, the best perspective on VW that I've ever read, anywhere.
Mechanic’s Tale: VW, Heal Thyself
Here is, withouth a doubt, the best perspective on VW that I've ever read, anywhere.
Mechanics Tale: VW, Heal Thyself
Luckily, as in politics, nothing good ever comes out of smearing your competition with unfounded, poorly-researched, transparent campaigns --- especially, when the source of money is easily traced.
The author of that article is an auto mechanic. If anything, he has more to gain by having more VW's on the road.
Perhaps I'm missing your point; what, exactly, are you implying? Please be specific.
Without trying to sound like too much of a wise-guy, I'd say it's because VW has had a lot of problems over the years.
Do a search for "defective coil pack VW" on Google - you'll get 16,600 hits. Change it to "bad coil pack VW", and you get 83,000 hits.
Do another search on "broken window lift problem VW" - I get 175,000 hits.
Scroll up to post 1264, and follow the link "Mechanic’s Tale: VW, Heal Thyself".
Regarding the other brands you mention, well...this is a VW forum, so I won't comment on them one way or the other.
:shades:
"Do another search on "broken window lift problem VW" - I get 175,000 hits."
So what does that prove? Type in "Toyota sucks" and you get 680,000 hits. Better yet, type in "Toyota bad transmission" and you get 1,450,000 hits. Type in "bad transmission Toyota" and you get 1,460,000 hits. You know Google picks out any site that has a combination of those words right? In fact, a site doesn't even have to have all the words in the search to show up as a hit.
Now I'm not one to be blinded by brand loyalty. I tried that once with Dodge and it got me two bad transmissions. VW's problem is they, like all the other automakers, are putting too much gimicky, electronic crap in their cars.
Plus VW shouldn't be trying to move up-market. The Phaeton, while a supurb automobile and a bargain in it's class, is proof of that.
But in terms of actual people I know, hands down VW people are the most pleased with their cars and none have experienced problems. So far relying on that type of data has been working for me and I'll stick with it. :shades:
Your limited sampling of "actual people I know" probably isn't valid, statistically-speaking. Check Consumer Reports. Check enthusiast websites like VWVortex - even there, you'll see tons of posts on the coil pack and window lift problems.
I TOTALLY agree with you about the "electronic crap" in cars!
It's going to be sad, in 10-15 years, that nobody will be able to restore these things, because they won't have all the parts available to make all that stuff work.
I read an article about a guy with a 2002 Chevy Venture van, who can't get it fixed, because GM can't supply a replacement catalytic converter!!! link title
Can you imagine how hard it'll be to track down some really obscure part in a few years??
Re: the Phaeton - I've only seen a few on the road - I saw one last week, as a matter of fact. From what I've read, they're nice, but overweight. VW should never have made them, at least as a VW. Perhaps sold them as Audis?
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