New Beetle or Honda Civic

mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
edited April 2014 in Volkswagen
I am so torn and have read entries in this forum
till I am dizzy. I hope that it is O.K. with
"Carlady" that I have tried to start this new

We are buying a new car this summer. We live in
the deserts of Arizona and need a reliable car with
Air Conditioning blasting at 110 degrees. We are
interested in the New Beetle TDI with leather and
all options, or maybe instead the Honda Civic HX
with the CVT transmission. (best mileage Civic
without going into the Insight) We want a car that
is dependable and safe, but cute and sporty. I am 6
foot 1, 163 pounds, and need a car that will not
kill me on a 3000 mile trip. We are both in our
40's, so are not needing a "university run-a-bout"!
Our main objective is good mileage! The Honda is
suppose to get 45 mpg, the Beetle gets 45 to 50.
The Beetle has a somewhat questionable quality
problem and has to use Diesil, the Honda has a
questionable transmission, the CVT. The Beetle
comes with more perks, for 22 thousand. The Honda
will cost about 18 thousand with air conditioning.
With escalating oil prices that will never again
come down, (in my opinion) we want an economical
car. I have a 1982 Honda CX-500 Custom, with shaft
drive and water cooled engine. Bought it new, and
at 65 thousand miles still purrs like a kitten,
gets 56 mpg, and has never stranded me. This is the
most dependable vehicle I have ever owned, but a
little impracticle at times, and dangerous to use.
(Is this typical for a small Honda engine)?? We
also have a very nice 2 door 69 Buick Skylark, 19.5
MPG, and a 1986 1 ton GMC duelly at 10 MPG, 7 mpg
when towing. You can see why I am tired of
gasoline bills!

I have waded my way through so many cars,
eliminated the Toyota Prius...too weak of a
performer, not available yet. The Honda the idea..but you can only carry 365
pounds of cargo and passengers. That is almost the
weight of two 170 pound eliminated
it. There are only two of us, but we need a car
that can carry a little luggage and gear
occasionally. The Beetle can carry 920 lbs, of
passengers and cargo...very nice. Love the Outback
and the Forester...but they keep getting bigger and
bigger, and get less mileage every year. Like the
quality of the Camry, but it doesn't get good
mileage, hate 4 doors, and is too expensive. We
want a car that gets at least 40 mpg. We are
moving out of the desert mountains and don't need
the AWD. Also they both get pitiful mileage!
So I am really stalled.....want a gas saving car,
that is comfortable and dependable, but won't cost
a fortune to run. We rarely have any rear seat
passengers. But love to hit the open road and
travel! Any insight anyone..between these two
vehicles??! Any input would help greatly!


  • 181kmiles181kmiles Member Posts: 29
    i would tell you do go with the hinda. they have a more reputable name when it comes to reliability
    i drive a 91 honda civic cheese box (base model) i was lucky to get a/c with it. it doesnt even have a 5 spd manual. its the 4 spd. i just hit 183 k miles this past weekend and ive put 180 miles on it in 3 days. it still gets me 35 mpg. i ahve the original engine transmission and clutch in it. i have to replace the transmission because i want a 5 spd and the main shaft bearing is blown. but after 183 k miles what do you want.
    its the most reliable car for the money i think
    and hondas have only gotten better
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for your input, but the lingering question is, can a 6 foot tall man drive it for 6 or 7 hours and still move after sitting in it that long??.....Are the seats and interior comfortable or is it just basically a commuter car, good for shorter trips..that is the burning question. We need a road car for trips around the country. The rest of the car, I am sold on.....
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Member Posts: 29
    well honestly i dont know about the newer civics but in my civic i drive back and forth to maryland every other weekend. its a 4 hour drive each way. i feel very comfortable in my civic and that is supposed to be a commuter car. i dont see how it has the commuter car characteristics. ive heard that the newer civics offer more leg room to the driver and passenger. you being 6' tall does create a problem if you were driving my civic but the new civics are designed for more head and leg room. i also have never had a complain with the comfort of the seats in any honda. generally they are comfortable for everyone. i dont mind at all driving 4 hours in my civic to get to maryland. and obviously you know that any seat can get uncomfortable if sat in long enough. right??? but anyway. i feel that the civic's seats and room is very good. i would still recomend the honda over a vw.
    i have driven the new beetle and it seems weird to me. it bottom of the windshield is too far away from the driver. and the top is too close to the driver. i dont know if you understood what i just said. basically it is too round on the inside. it would get annoying to me after a long trip say to maryland. the first thing that i would say to you if you already havent done it is drive each car on a test drive. that is the best way to be sure what car youll be comfortable in
  • yellowbugyellowbug Member Posts: 7
    Mtnbunny27, Road and Track magazine did a long term test on a New Beetle in their Aug 99 edition. Here's a link to the article:,1169,_sl_RoadAndTrack_sl_Article_sl_0_cm_1182_cm_1817_1_2_cm_00,00.html
    I have the hard copy of the magazine, and in one of the pictures, it showed feature editor Andrew Bornhop at the wheel. It doesn't show this picture in the electronic article, but in the magazine the picture caption commented that Mr. Bornhop is 6-foot-4 and had plenty of head room. The tested Beetle was a 1.8 liter turbo-gas, but the comfort/convenience features are the same as the TDI engine beetle. A good source of info. concerning VW TDI's is Fred's TDI page:
  • sg207ptgsg207ptg Member Posts: 4
    another good article on the TDI engine can be founded at Kelly Blue Book website,, click on Reviews section, then select Jetta 2000. There are 3 articles for the Jetta 2000 but one of them is specifically on the TDI engine. This is the same engine used in the Beetle and the Golf, I believe. Hope it helps!
  • bug4pegbug4peg Member Posts: 15
    I have a '00 NB GLS 1.8T - so mileage isn't as great, but as for comfort.... well I love it. The seats adjust every which way, and they have good support. I also have the sunroof, which cuts into the headroom ... but yet my 6'5" husband still has head room... The beetle is a great car, lots of fun, and has amazingly LOTS of interior room (up front). You really should test drive them both. That's the only way to make the decision. Good luck!
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for the advice, you all.....I have driven a TDI New Beetle, my best friend had one, she sold it however, and bought a Volvo (S-40) She is really kicking herself now, as she loved the Beetle the best. She drove it from Oregon to here (Arizona) at 90 mph the whole way and back, and said she never had a car that performed so well! I have weeded through so many choices, and will probably go with the TDI New Beetle in the end....Everytime I start to get interested in something else, I always come back to the New Beetle TDI.....
    I have never driven the Honda HX CVT but feel the mileage is not good enough for us. The standard gets 38 city...45 highway, the CVT transmission only gets 35/41. We only want the CVT, so that may "oust" the Civic out of the running.
    On the other hand the Beetle is more expensive but more of a road car too, just what we need, as we want to do some nationwide traveling with it.....and the diesel gets 45 to over 50 mpg....the mileage is paramount to me, while I watch the price of oil go up and up......I think all manufacturers should start making cars smaller, and less thirsty, turning out lead sleds at 12 mpg is ridiculous!
    How do you like the quality of your Beetle??...the biggest worry I have is the integrity of them....are they really all borderline lemons? I want one so bad..but am concerned about constant breakdowns!
  • rysterryster Member Posts: 571
    Hi, sorry to jump in so late. I owned a '99 New Beetle for 8 months (put over 11,000 miles on it in that time) and promptly traded it for something else. It was a good car overall, but had several quirky characteristics that started driving me to the "brink".
    Build quality is not what I would call spectacular. Merely average. By the time I traded it had dash rattles, seat creaks, door vibrations, and a severe hatch rattle.
    Dealer service was severly lacking. Appointments needed to be made three to four weeks in advance for simple tasks such as oil changes. The mechanics were sloppy in their work (oil fingerprints on inside door panels, dashboard, hood, trunk, etc.) It would take approximately 3 hours to complete the oil change while I waited.
    My particular car was the 2.0L gas model with automatic transmission. No power. Did not inspire confidence in various driving situations. Fuel economy was average at 24mpg overall (I exceed that currently with my V6 Chevy Camaro driving the exact some daily route. I easily get 25 to 26mpg with the Chevy.) The New Beetle would also consume oil to the tune of 1qt every 3,000 miles. The owner's guide warns of this, and VW is not joking when they suggest checking the oil at every fuel fill-up.
    The car was very comfortable (I am 6'5" tall) and was a good highway cruiser on longer trips. It was fabulous in the snow (but the Camaro is just as good despite being rear wheel drive.) The Beetle was, however, highly unstable while driving in gusty winds. Air conditioning in the Beetle is barely adequate (the large glass areas tend to cause a greenhouse type of effect in extreme heat. Heat will build quickly in these little cars.) The factory stereo is very disappointing. Paint quality is average. Tends to nick and scratch very easily (mine was the Dark Blue.)
    The New Beetle is an adequate small car. I have driven the Honda Civic (my father leased a '96 Civic sedan for 2 years) and personally view it as the better of the two cars. Quieter, more refined, more solid, more practical overall (more usable storage space.) In fact, if I had to buy a car today the Civic would be my primary choice (regardless even of the type of car I was looking at.) The New Beetle, for me, lost its novelty very quickly and its quirky characteristics simply could not be overlooked.
    Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I know couple of Beetle owners who made a similar move. If a car is launched new, and you start to see it in used car lots in 6-8 months, (not one or two, but often), there has to be a problem. This is not to put down Beetle in any way. It is a distinctive looking car, and reminds many of its hay days in the 60's, but before taking a step to buy it, think about it, than being disappointed a few months later.

    If you have not driven Civic HX, you should go out and see it for yourself. I've read positive reviews about the car, and the 115 HP is powerful enough for its 2400 lb. curb weight. Gas mileage may vary depending on driving habits. My current car (Accord) is rated at 23/30 by EPA, but even with my heavy footed driving, I get something like 26/32 mpg of regular gasoline. It is no light weight car either, at 3200 lb. In Texas summer, use of a/c reduces the mileage a little. So, 35/41 in Civic HX may actually give you 37-38 mpg in city. However, you've to find out if it is the car for you.
    Based on the latest I know about next generation Civics (all new Civics will arrive as 2001 models in September-October), Honda seems to be continuing CVT tranny for American Civics, attached to even more fuel efficient VTEC-I engine. If you can wait until then, it could be worth it. (based on a rumor, the next generation Civics will be able to attain mileage to 50 mpg, I hope this is not at the cost of power though).
    There are other cars too, you might want to check out. Nissan too may bring its CVT to the US in Sentra and so on. Good luck.
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Thank you to everyone that has answered my earlier post..all this information does help! I may indeed decide to go with the Honda..hear so much bad about the Beetles
    Anyone else out there????????
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    Friends, post #4 is hidden above because it contains a link that skews our screen size. To read it, just click on "hidden."

  • 181kmiles181kmiles Member Posts: 29
    you have made the right choice to think about the civic. if you do in fact go with it i guarentee that youll be happy with it. robertsmx makes a god point about the new vtec-i. it has better gas milage and more power. but if you want the gas milage you have to go with a 5 spd tranny. there is no way your gonna get 50 mpg on an automatic tranny. it looses too much to slippage. if anyone wants to back me up feel free.
    i would go with what robertsmx says and wait for the new vtec-i engine to come out. and go with the civic.
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    If you haven't checked out this TDI site yet, it is worth the visit:

    FAQ on the TDI and TDI links as well...

  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for all the said that there is no way one would get 50 mpg on an Civic automatic, unless you went with a 5 speed manual. Actually this is in error..there is no slippage with the CVT automatic transmission. Very few people are aware of how they are designed or why they were designed. The reason of course, was to make an automatic that has no gears, that perfectly matches the engine RPM...with never any slipping....absolutely perfect power transfer that exceeds the manual, with an infinite number of gear ratios. I believe the 2001 Civix HX CVT may very well be capable of the added mileage going up to 50 mpg or higher...we will see, the new for 2001 specs are not available yet.
  • axle32axle32 Member Posts: 3
    i am a real big man that drives a 2000 civic dx hatchback and am getting ready to get a 2000 or 2001 hx coupe as soon as i get the money toghether.
    i have owned several honda in the past and can afford any car i want under the 35k range but i am tight enough to want the fuel mileage. my car gets a constant 34.3 miles / gallon . i live in a very mountainous area and never drive more than 37 miles at a time but usually i only drive about 11 miles at a time to go to work, each way.

    i looked at both the vw and the toyota echo in my decision , but , how could i pass up the 4.9 % interest and the $12,700 and change price ?
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Finally someone that could afford more of a car, but wants the better mileage. I wish other Americans had that kind of vision. I too could buy almost anything, but why should I settle for an irresponsibly designed machine that only gets 10 to 25 mpg, when I can have a car that is designed more in harmony with our earth and gets 35 to 45. People that think we can continue to drive wasteful and poorly designed SUV's and cars, in our fastly disentegrating environment, are truly narrow visioned. "Kudos" to Honda, and VW and others that are resposible and not trying to please the oil companies with gas guzzlers!
  • axle32axle32 Member Posts: 3
    i just looked at an insight made by honda , it is very pricey for a 2 seater , and since toyota is coming out with a four seater in june , i would bet on the toyota for around the same price , i do have some kids out there .
    as for the honda or bug , keep with the coupe at least for a couple of years until the newness wears off the bettle and then it will be a great deal with great interest rates, i have been waiting for around 6 years now for a bug, i have a automobile magazine with jerry seinfeld on the cover looking at and getting a test ride in the concept 1, which is the name of the new beetle when they were trying to figure out what to call it.
    like i said in my last response , even being in the higher income scale for a civic, i am a tight??? in the housing and in the car department anymore.
    i will keep investing in real estate for my kids and say to he?? with cars that are costing me 30 or 40 bucks to fill up and only drive the same distance as i do in the honda for 10 bucks.

    good luck mtnbunny
  • fkdcrxfkdcrx Member Posts: 6
    First off no one has mentioned that the new for 2001 vtec-i engines are Direct injection units And a whole new engine design since 88'? They look to be something of a revolution! BUT the new civics are a guess at the looks department and What has been confirmed is the shifters are returning to the dashboard (very querky) Im not shure how this would feel for a stick. Since I like my shifter low and attached to a rod not High and attached to a spongy cable (hondas are one of the few sticks that accuate the gears with a steel rod) (the cable bit is still a rumor but honda would be hard pressed to do a dash shifter with a rod)
    As for the HX CVT We just picked one up this labor day weekend. 15000 out the door with the cvt.
    We looked a the bug about 6 months ago and found it very small and lacking in interior finish. The VW used too many "untested" materials and had too much rubber exposed to the sun. The trunk was a joke and the folding seats jammed agenst the front seats. And no we didnt jam the fonts to thier limits. My mother (a paltry 5'1") had the seat pulled all the way fwd.(she owned an old bug years ago. I was trying to sway her) You need to remove the headrests to get the seats to lay somewhat flat without touching the fronts. If you never plan on takeing anything with you, other than a few bags then the interior should suit. Drive them, feel them, and hell if its realy important rent them! I feel the civic is the better buy with the facts that it runs on regular pump gas not diesil (which is hard to find in "my" area.) Hondas have great resale (was going to buy used but desided not to when I found the same car new with the same stuff for a 150.00 more and 2years newer).
    And yes all VWs eat oil its a main part of thier diet. My mother owned a 77 when I was growing up I loved that car (funky smell and all) It went through 3 rebuilds and 300,000 miles and consumed a quart of oil every other fill up. VWs have improved greatly over the past 10 years. Surpassing (in my opnion) the American auto manufactuers in quality and build. However they are weak in the engine area. I see plenty of late 90's golfs (jettas) and GTIs (they share engines as the bug) squealing and smokin thier way through life. (there are plenty on the road here because of the 299.00mo loans) The engines well....they just SUCK. The finish on them is horrid, metal flashing hanging off the valve covers scratches and dents on many engine parts . I first saw this deficit in 91? when the second gen was retired.
    And if you'r wondering our old car was an 88 Acura Ledgen L with 168,000 miles (never opened the engine except to replace the timing belt)Only other repairs were to the British designed bits (electronics) and items that wear after so many miles (brake rotors shocks and some hoses.)
    I think the hondas are the best enginerred autos on the road for under 100grand. You dont often see a car that can rev to over 9,000rpm and retain a 100,000 warrentee and get 25+ miles to the gallon.
    But I guess I am biased My last 2 cars were honda a 78 accord (killed on the interstate) and A 89 CRX which still exists as a commuter/rolling advertisement.
    For some enjoyment check out my site and be shure to click on the Temple of VTEC site LOTS of info!
  • hmbhmb Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a new TDI, new car euphoria not withstanding, I love it. With an automatic on the first tank I got more than 45MPG. To address some of the above posts. The car is affected by strong winds put not anything such as the old beetle was. I'm 6' 1", with the sunroof I have plenty of headroom, the Civic Si sunroof I tested my head touched the roof. Yes with the VW back seat folded for maximum space they do touch the front seats but the space inside is so much more usable than the trunked (no hatchback) Hondas. The Hondas only offer ABS on the 4 door EX sedan, I don't understand Honda's thinking about such a good safety feature.
    Safety wise the New Beetle was rated a good deal higher than the Honda in the crash tests. Cruise control is only offered on a few Hondas, the Beetle has other standard features the Hondas lack or don't offer on some models. Subjectively: I drove an Si and an EX coupe, I've owned Hondas before, great cars but they've got no soul, their looks are mundane. The Beetle but a smile on my face the Hondas didn't, life is too short to place quality control above all else.
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for the positive insights! I still am trying to decide, but mostly waiting for the 2001 models to come out. I think we will go with the TDI Beetle however, I like you, want all the added perks you get on a Beetle. But of course to be fair, you pay for it too. But I wish I could get more on the Honda HX than they are offering. I am anxious to see what will be offered on the 2001, for one, A/C will no longer be a dealer add-on......
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Curious if the HX can handle the A/C like the Diesel TDI. I need a car that can blast cold air on the Black Canyon Freeway and in Phoenix at 115 degrees stop and go traffic.....that has been one of my big concerns with the small engined Honda HX..(someone told me they are really screamers under any load and powerless when A/C is on)?? did yours do in hot Texas and Louisiana????
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541
    As an owner of a Honda Civic HX CVT coupe, let me give you my experiences!

    I myself LOVE the car. The nice thing about the CVT transmission is that you're always in the "right gear," so the car doesn't feel like being bogged down in the wrong gear. That makes it a great commuter car, because when you need quick acceleration all you need to do is press down a bit more on the accelerator pedal.

    And even with air conditioning running, the car still doesn't bog down, because the acceleration is still quick and smooth.

    By the way, you might want to know that CVT automatics may become the wave of the future. Audi in Europe started selling a year ago a new type of CVT automatic where instead of using a normal metal belt between two variable-width pulleys, it uses a very unusual drive chain between those same variable-width pulleys. You may want to check out the July 2000 issue of Car and Driver magazine, which has an article showing this new CVT design.

    Developed in cooperation with the German company LUK, this new drive-chain CVT (Audi calls it "Multitronic") can withstand a lot more engine torque than metal-belt CVT's. Audi was able to put this CVT automatic into their A6 2.8 model on an engine rated at 200 bhp and 207 pound-feet of torque with no wear problems.

    This bodes very well for Volkwagen, since Audi is a subsidary of VW. Don't be surprised that within two years we'll see the Multitronic CVT in VW models such as the Golf, Jetta and New Beetle--and that includes the TDI and 1.8 Turbo models. Since Multitronic allows for an infinite ratio of "gears," VW could adjust the engine computer so the car uses the most efficient ratio--lower RPM's for the TDI engine and higher RPM's for the 1.8T engine.
  • mtnbunny27mtnbunny27 Member Posts: 32
    Thank you for the in-depth information!! You are the first gentleman that actually owns a CVT, and knows the merits of the design and function. I appreciate your insights! Do you feel the Civic is comfortable on long trips?? Because of the price of gas we are trying to find an economical vehicle that is dependable too, as we want to travel the whole U.S. What kind of mileage do you get??
    There is a new compressor that VW and Beetle are using, can't remember the details without looking it up, but it is much more efficient than the older ones...wonder if Honda is using it yet too??

    I am still in the research mode on an automobile, right now the running is:
    2001 Civic HX CVT
    2001 Beetle GLS TDI
    (Would like the Passat wagon, but why won't they let America have the TDI??) Can't wait till 2002 or 2003!
    Also very interested in the Subaru Forester, as it would really fulfill our needs....(back roads, inclement weather, snow, etc.) But am very dissatisfied in their would get only 22 to 30 at best........that is rather pitiful in my book. All my life I have owned poor mileage vehicles, now it is time go the other direction!
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541

    My own experience with the 1998 Civic HX CVT coupe is that I get 35 to 37 mpg on daily driving. That's why US$1.65/gallon regular unleaded gas costs don't faze me.

    The car is quite comfortable for long trips, though I hope the 2001 Civic HX CVT (if such a model exists) will NOT have the dark-colored interior of the current Civics. The nice thing about the car is even with only 115 bhp, the car zips up to freeway speeds on freeway onramps extremely smoothly and quickly, so much so that you can do 85 mph before you know it! =:-O It does handle fairly well, though I did replace the original Firestone FR680 tires with Bridgestone RE92's lately for better overall handling.

    You may want to check with your Honda dealer on whether you can still get a 2000 model year Civic HX CVT on a good deal, though you should note that Honda's Marysville, OH plant will likely switch over to the all-new 2001 model any time now. Also, check with Autobytel, CarsDirect and other online sales sites and they can probably find you a 2000 model year Civic HX CVT coupe at a pretty reasonable cost.
  • garry8garry8 Member Posts: 1
    I usually buy about 4/5 new cars a year for my family and employees a year usually at invoice and receive all rebates and incentives problem is I personally want to buy a TDI Beetle and having big problems getting a good price. Anyone out there able to come up with a better price than 400 under MSRP please help
  • car2nscar2ns Member Posts: 15
    Why don't you make a visit to places like or There are numerous discussions (including problems with the Beetles).

    I think you will find that Beetle owners are having much more fun with their cars than when they had others. (I traded a four month old Civic LX sedan for a Beetle) I LOVE my car. You must realize that you will see more postings of problems than quotes like... "still running great".

    I know of someone that put over 60,000 miles on their TDI with only minor problems (window switch was one) before his car got totaled.

    Right now on the main page of BeetleBuzz there is a story of how solid the Beetle is. It is rated as the safest small car on the market right now and it's never boring to drive!

    Good luck with your decision!
  • caelacaela Member Posts: 2
    We purchased a 99 Beetle tdi in January of 99. We have had no problems at all, and even with all four of us (kids are teenagers) we have gotten over 50 mph! We paid less for it almost 2 years ago than we see the used car guides list it for TODAY!!. SHOP AROUND! At the time we bought it for just over 18k, the six other dealers within 100- miles radius were asking over 21k!! We refer everyone we know who is interested to the dealer we used. I look up used 99's now and still see our dealer as being an average 2k less than the others on used car listings. Sure we take our Suburban if we are traveling far away or need to take the dog, cat and camping gear. But for everything else, the beetle has been perfect for us. (I did see somewhere that the manual transmission, which we have, is not sold in California anymore. To us, that just makes ours worth more. We have had dealers ask to buy our car because there is a demand they can't fill here.) Even with diesel costing as much as unleaded, at least here in CA, getting an average of 45 mpg still sounds good! We intend to keep this car and give it to our daughter when she is older. This way, the car is paid for when she needs it, and she cleans it all the time because it's 'hers' :>) The beetle is sporty, comfortable and economical especially for in-town driving. The a/c works well and quickly. We live near a mountain pass and the car goes over with no trouble at 70 mph. We don't even have to downshift as we do with our pickup and Suburban. Only trouble we have had is with the am radio, and vw gave us a new one with no trouble, and no questions asked. When they change the oil, they wash the car. They call to see how our check ups went. You will love this car!
  • dsuperdjdsuperdj Member Posts: 1
    hi, i have been reading the posts and i appreciate all of the insights. i was wondering about the reliability of the cvt transmission and how well it works in cold weather. also, i deliver pizzas and i was wondering how the cvt would hold up. thanks
  • chrismarchrismar Member Posts: 18
    I think you would have more fun with the Beetle! Trust me on this one! I didn't get a TDI I have a GLX and its a blast to drive! I wanted a car that was not a car that you see a TON of everyday on the road! I am very VERY happy with my purchase :) Good luck in your decision!

    2001 CyberGreen NB GLX 1.8T
  • stolzerpastolzerpa Member Posts: 3
    Anybody know the DMV requirements for registering a car purchased out of state? I am looking at purchasing a 2001 TDI in Arizona or Nevada to bring back home to Calif. Any help would be appreciated!
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    You might want to call Calif. DMV...By the way
    there is a possibility that we will have a limited number of TDIs to sell here later this
    year or early next.
  • sach1sach1 Member Posts: 22
    any predictions on this? At $2.15 gallon for diesel last winter, any mpg benefit of the TDI was wiped out compared to $1.80 premium unleaded.
  • djlmh1djlmh1 Member Posts: 2
    I have owned 6 Hondas (another gas economy fanatic!). Honda's simply are absolutely best combo of reliability, performance, comfort, economy you will find!

    I had a 97 Civic HX w CTV for 1 year. I loved the tranny & engine combo, smmoooooth & relatively quick. Never drove long trips but am confident you could break 50 mpg on the highway with a cruise control (HX does not come from honda with CC, but I paid about $200 to have a very nice aftermarket unit put in). Now the HX bad news: My wife & I are similar sized (5-7 & 150 lbs), but we both found that the seat cushion put uncomfortable pressure on our thighs & the Missus got a sore back after 50 miles. That explains why we never took it on a long trip. For a taller person, seats may be fine.

    Now, CONSIDER THIS BEFORE YOU BUY an HX or TDI! We sold the Hx last month & are looking for our 2nd Del Sol. With my 1st Del Sol (94 Si with automatic) I could get over 45 mpg on the highway, the seats were very comfy & the roof came off in a minute. Unless you need the space, look at the Del Sol. The S model has a weaker engine & suspension, but will get another 2-5 mpg!
  • thinkdieselthinkdiesel Member Posts: 2
    It depends on which you prefer. The TDI will get marginally higher fuel mileage than the Civic HX and will be safer in an accident, but that aside the main difference between the two is driveability. If you like high-revving motors that you shift more often-- then the Honda is for you. If yoru prefer V6-like low end power and easy stop and go driving, then you want a TDI. Honda makes excellent cars, but I am a torque fanatic and personally cannot stand driving a car that you have to rev over 5000 RPM to feel anything resembling thrust. My TDI has as much torque at 1900 rpm as a Honda S2000 has at 5500 rpm! It all depends on what you like and your style of driving.
  • sach1sach1 Member Posts: 22
    Shudder...diesel sold for $2.15/gallon here in the northeast last winter vs $1.80 for premium, at the peak of the fuel spike.

    of course, if gas ever becomes scarce, there will be ample amount of diesel, if 1978-9 crisis repeats itself.
  • andre2752andre2752 Member Posts: 1
    In response to:
    #29 of 38: beetle tdi (caela) Thu 14 Sep '00 (10:28 PM)

    Where is the dealer that you recommend located?
  • eludwigeludwig Member Posts: 82
    If the sole purpose of comparing the Civic HX to the Beetle or Golf TDI is fuel economy, then it makes sense. If you are concerned about emissions, however, there is no contest. Diesel motors like the TDI have long enjoyed relaxed emissions standards in the U.S., and recently there have been numerous news stories about the need for cleaner diesel motors. One report said that diesel motors emit 50x more pollutants into the environment than an average gasoline motor. And Honda's are much, much, cleaner burning than the average. Just think about why diesel's leave clouds and fumes behind- it's emissions. Something to consider.
  • 668668 Member Posts: 13
    The TDI has 20% lower green house gas emmisions than a similar size gasser. The only two areas that the TDI has "issues" is NOX and particulate and as it is The TDI meets tier one standards. The TDI is NOT a "dirty motor." The biggest problem we have in the US is we allow ten times the amount of sulfur in our diesel as Europe does. Lower the sulfur content of the diesel fuel and further clean the TDI's emmisions. TDIs are not 18 wheelers or even Cummins diesels, they do not spew clouds of smoke.
    Proud owner of a 1998 Jetta TDI.
  • eludwigeludwig Member Posts: 82
    Okay, I had the details screwed up, but the bottom line is, as accurately pointed out by 668, the sulfur in U.S. diesel fuel. While the EPA has suggested some solutions, the oil industry lobbyists are launching their attack on The White House to prevent new requirements. We'll see if big business wins...

    To correct 668, the TDI emits 20% less carbon dioxide than a gas motor (due to MPG, not technology), while emitting barely less hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Nitrogen oxide and particle emissions is still greater than a gas motor. (Measurements figure in fuel efficiency, so mile-for-mile a Civic HX is cleaner. This is where my original comment stems from.)

    I just want a clean planet!

    ...a proud Honda loyalist
  • govugovu Member Posts: 62
    > While the EPA has suggested some solutions, the oil
    > industry lobbyists are launching their attack on The White House to prevent new
    > requirements. We'll see if big business wins...

    Take a look at the nominee to head the EPA. Who do you think is going to win?

    You're partly right about the TDI and carbon dioxide emissions, eludwig. But not fully. There are two reasons that the emissions may differ: 1) miles per gallon, where the TDI wins, and 2) the chemistry of combustion, where I'm not sure who wins. Diesel is composed of different molecules than gasoline. Both result in production of carbon dioxide. The question is, which contains more energy per gram of carbon dioxide produced?

    Here I am getting all defensive about my wonderful TDI, when I should be realize that Civic owners are also interested in a cleaner planet. There are other vehicles of much greater concern out there.

    I wouldn't buy either car, especially the TDI, for saving money on fuel. Last summer when I was paying $1.39 and my friends were getting gas for over $2, I figured out that I would still only be saving about $300 a year. Buy these cars because you want to use less fuel for conservation. (And I can't speak for the Civic here because I haven't driven one...but the TDI is fun to drive.)
  • toriephippstoriephipps Member Posts: 1
    #26 Garry, I live in the NW & was wondering where I might find $400 under MSRP on a 2001 TDI ?
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I love high mpg, and want the bells and whistles too. Don't get suckered into a TDI without doing the math for the full range of maintenance costs. Timing belt change at 40,000 for $500-$600. You knoew you will wind up at your friendly VW dealer to get it done. Fuel filter changes at 20,000 at $125-$150 a pop (yes, they do the first one for free). Add in a 10-30 cent premium for diesel over the cheapest unleaded in town and the lousy mpg gas VWs might wind up not costing any more than the diesel per mile of ownership. Gas VWs have 90,000 timing belt intervals and the 2.0 runs on regular unleaded. As for the HX Civics, I have no experience, but suspect it has better build quality than the VWs and costs less. Whether the HXs really do get 4 mpg more in the city and 5 mpg more on the highway than the 5 speed DX/LX I leave for HX owners to tell. Why won't Honda put the HX in a four door model? I notice they removed power windows from the 01 HX.
  • 668668 Member Posts: 13
    I own a 1998 Jetta TDI and there is NO filter on the car that costs anywhere close to $125 much less $150 a "pop." Just buying from the dealer, air filter $21.50, dsl(fuel) filter $45, that's the most expensive one, oil filter was $14.00. As to fuel costs, diesel fuel seasonal variation is the opposite of gas. In the summer I pay much less than 87 octane, even this winter I'm paying between the price of 87 and 89 octane. The other thing about diesel, in my experience, is the price varies much more station to station than gasoline. But, hey with over 700 miles cruising range on a tank of fuel there is plenty of time to find a good station. The other thing I like about my TDI, is the performance, I can acellerate hard and drive as fast as the cop's let me get away with and still get around 50mpg. It has a lot more "fun factor" than an HX. 2000 RPM is 60mph, 2500 RPM is 75mph. A heck of a lot lower RPMs than an HX at those speed. The torque plateau of a TDI is 1900-3500 RPM. So the two drive very differently. A diesel should never be wound out past 3500 RPM that is not where the power is. If you want to max acceleration shift 3000-3500, if you want to just drive, shift 2000-2500 RPMs.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Not sure about the 99 Jetta TDI, but I was told by 3 dealers about the 20,000 mile fuel filter recommendation. The cited cost was $125-150 including labor. They made it sound like it was a complicated task, and not a simple unclip the fuel line from each side and replace. Diesel still costs more than the lowest price regular unleaded overall, and coupled with the more frequent timing belt changes, fuel filter changes, and premium for the engine, overall operating costs are probably a lot closer than 50mpg would have one believe.
  • govugovu Member Posts: 62
    I haven't experienced the 10-30 cents more per gallon of diesel than for the cheapest unleaded in town. Sometimes it is 10 cents more per gallon. Sometimes it's ten cents less. Last summer I was paying 60 cents less per gallon.

    Where are you getting your info, mpgman?
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I've been paying $1.299 for unleaded regular in southern NJ. What are you paying for diesel? Also, anyone got any info on the true mileage of the TDI automatic? Thanks.
  • wordman93wordman93 Member Posts: 36
    Currently I pay 1.46 per gallon for diesel fuel at my friendly Fina gas station. That's about about 7 cents more than regular gas, 5 cents more than premium, and only 3 cents less than the supreme. I live in Dallas, Texas and the prices differ station to station. At alot of the Texaco stations, diesel is the most expensive fuel. During the summer months however; diesel is normally the same or cheaper than the regular grade. Doesn't really matter much considering I only fill up once every week or once every 8 or 9 days. Still cheaper than the gassers anyway you look at it.
    Also, at 25k miles my oil change cost me a total of $24 bucks at Central VW/Audi. Park Cities Jeep/VW was going to charge me a total of $60 dollars, while Metro VW charges $40 dollars. Ya gotta shop around I guess.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Thanks for the info. The TDI Golf looks like a winner, even with the higher routine maintenance costs.
  • 98civicloser98civicloser Member Posts: 1
    I just bought a 98 Civic HX with the CVT transmission from a private party. I was shocked to find out a couple of days later that there were no air bags! I could see that the car had been repainted so I looked for signs of accident repair. Everything looked good, but I did not think to check the air bags before I put down my cash. It will cost me about $1,800 to put new ones in. We all make mistakes and I am going to have to live with this one and make the best of it. I have also found some other surprises as well.
    My question has to do with the CVT. If I can believe the odometer it has 34,000 miles on it. The mechanical condition of the rest of the car looks right for 34,000. Anyway, when I first start up the car and accelerate in Drive the engine revs up for a second, there is a clunk, and then the car takes off smoothly. Same in reverse. Is this common with the CVT or does this indicate wear? One I drive a mile or so the condition goes away, however, there still is the slightest hesitation compared with my Camry automatic.
    Once I clear up the problems I think I'll love the car. I got 35 mpg on my first tank. The car has power everything and I payed $10,500. I live in Seattle, Wahington.
  • tdibugmantdibugman Member Posts: 5
    My 98 TDI New Beetle is turning 65000 miles tomorrow, so a few thoughts: At the Jersey Shore, I pay 1.50/ gallon, same as premium. With a five speed, I regularly get 45-54 mpg, depending on how hard I push her. I normally use Amoco (or BP) diesel - the cetane number is higher and there is less smoke. I do get a puff in the morning, but it keeps the mosquitos away :) When I had the timing belt changed, it was 149.99 at the dealer, including belt, labor, and new tensioner. Remember that even though this needs to be changed every 40k miles, there are no spark plugs to be changed, etc as there is on a gas motor. And on the fuel filter issue: its a forty dollar filter, and .4 hours of labor to change. I don't think they need to be changed every 20K though - i've got 45K on my current filter and all is well.
    Finally, the boatloads of torque this little wonder motor makes is phenomenal, even with the a/c on. You can mash the gas in fifth on the highway, and it puuls like a train (a small one, of course)
This discussion has been closed.