How are you getting this mileage? I drive app. 100-120 miles a day 3-4 days a week with most of it being Highway. My speed is between 70-75 on normal Illinois roads. How can I successfully get what you are getting- OPEN AND READY FOR ALL THE HELP I CAN GET.
Mileage of Golf TDI Auto is 34/45 Mileage of Civic HX Auto is 35/40
HP of Golf TDI = 90 HP of Civic HX = 117
Purchase cost of comparable cars as of 02/16/01 on CarsDirect website
Golf TDI $17,770 This is for GL 2 Door Auto Civic HX $14,831 This is for HX 2 Door Auto (13,831 + 1,000 for dealer install AC)
Golf TDI requires new timing belt every 40,000 miles, requires synthetic oil, requires brake fluid every 2yr/24,000 miles. And a timing belt is around $350 including labor.
Civic requires first tuneup at 105,000 miles. (don't listen to those TDI owners who keep saying that you save money on tuneups with diesel)
Diesel fuel today is $1.57 in my area. Unleaded is $1.25.
Over 100,000 miles the fuel cost based on hiway mileage and above fuel costs would be;
$3488.00 for Golf $3125.00 for Civic
$700.00 can be added to Golf for the two timing belt replacements.
So you will save $2939 on the Honda at purchase, $700 for timing belts you won't buy, and save $363 on fuel after driving 100,000 miles.
Buy the Civic and you will also have an extra 27 HP compared to Golf TDI.
You won't have to buy your fuel at truckstop if you buy Civic.
Quality of Civic is generally considered to be superior to the Golf.
There are more Honda dealerships than there are VW dealerships in USA.
Civic is assembled by American workers, Golf is assembled in Brazil or Mexico.
Ergonomics are better in Civic than in Golf. IMO.
Golf is more fun to drive. IMO.
If VW makes you happy, then get a VW, but if cost and performance are your criteria, get the Honda.
It's the torque. The TDI has a lot more useful power than an HX. With 155 ftlbs of torque it will eat your tin box HX for lunch. The TDI gets better fuel economy. If you are paying as much for diesel as Premium you aren't looking hard enough. The TDI has a larger fuel tank and loner cruising range than an HX. Oh, well this sounds too bombastic, buy what makes you happy.
VW Golf TDI 12.5 Seconds (with the manual, auto is slower.
Honda Civic HX - 9.2 Seconds
The only thing the VW is eating for lunch is diesel fuel and the exhaust of the Honda Civic HX.
Does an increase in 4 MPG and 1.3 gallon larger fuel tank justify a diesel? The answer is no.
How hard do you have to look for Diesel?
I happen to like diesels. As soon as one is available that does not cost $3,000 more than it's competition, cost more to maintain, and cost more to operate, I'll own one.
And I have to add that trying to find a competent mechanic (other than VW dealer) to work on a diesel passenger car is much more difficult than it is for a gas Honda.
Re. Anyway, when I first start up the car and accelerate in Drive the engine revs up for a second, there is a clunk, and then the car takes off smoothly. Same in reverse. Is this common with the CVT or does this indicate wear? One I drive a mile or so the condition goes away, however, there still is the slightest hesitation compared with my Camry automatic.
My 97 Civic doesn't have CVT but it does have the clunk shifting between first and second gear. It seems to come and go depending on how I drive it. Apparently there is nothing actually wrong with it, it's just a quirk of the transmission design.
Perhaps Honda's oversight in design carried over to the CVTs. Regarding the airbags, you could do a Carfax check and see if your car had been in an accident. My car had airbags as standard equipment and it's the least expensive model of Civic (DX). In any case, I would say that you needn't apply such a harsh word as loser, since you still have a great car that will give you next to no mechanical problems, really low depreciation, and very fine build quality.
We have driven Honda since 1982 but this time we chose a 2000 Jetta TDI and 2001 Beetle TDI. This is why:
Fun! VW is way more fun... actually we left the Honda lot bored and there are not many option packages/color choices.
Value! Almost maxed out for $20k each I even got leather and heated seats, sunroof and power everything (not offered on the Honda we looked at.
Safety! 5 stars for the Jetta (the only car in its class with that rating. The Beetle is not far behind.
Economy! 700 miles of range on a 14.5 gallon tank! We fill up once per month for a total cost for BOTH cars of about $35 to $40.
Warantee! 10year/100k engine and drive train! Wow!
Maintenance interval (every 10k miles after break-in)
These Volkwagens are fun! More fun than any Honda I could afford. The TDI is plenty peppy enough for me and they are both a BLAST to drive.
I noticed my Beetle was featured in this month's American Way magazine on American Airlines. I think they got it right.
Our last Honda was not as good as we expected either (1992 our daughter now drives) needed a new transmission at 135k, wheel bearings about the same time. The engine has been good so far and has 180k on it. The transmission rebuild was $2500 with labor and new axles.
The jury is still out on how long these diesels will last but I am betting a long, long time. And (did I say it yet) really fun to drive!
I forgot to mention with 5 speeds in both cars the Jetta gets right at 50 mpg combined. The Beetle gets 45 combined (but I am harder on it than my wife is on her Jetta).
In North Dallas I payed 1.439 for my last fill-up for diesel. My daughter paid 1.379 for regular unleaded. 6 cents difference.
Earlier I posted a comparison of VW TDI to Honda Civic and used the current price of diesel and unleaded at it's actual cost in the area I live. Below is a national average, it is less biased.
National Fuel Price Average as of 02/20/2001
Regular Mid Premium Diesel
Current Avg. $1.483 $1.574 $1.631 $1.601 Month Ago Avg. $1.492 $1.584 $1.642 $1.615 Year Ago Avg. $1.395 $1.481 $1.535 $1.541
*Prices are in US dollars per gallon
Why is cost of fuel so low in Texas? Transportation of fuel to market adds less than 1 penny per gallon. Are the fuel taxes added by the state very low?
The tax on diesel is higher than on gas by a few cents. The price varies a lot just locally. I have seen 1.599, 1.499 and 1.439 all within a couple miles for diesel. I chose the 1.439 (and I only buy diesel about once a month with the 700 mile range).
Unleaded also varies, I saw 1.399, 1.439 and then one station lowered their price this morning to 1.299 from 1.379 yesterday.
Diesel does not move as fast as gas in price so it really lags going down and going up. Last summer diesel was much cheaper than gas.
Anyway, my monthly fuel bill for my beetle is usually less that $20, it was about $22 when diesel was 1.599.
Fuel savings is great but I like the torquie engine, leather heated seats, sunroof and powerful stereo, the 6 way adjustable seats. I also like how relativly quiet the car and it rarely smells like a diesel. Most of all it is blast to drive.
My wife likes the Jetta better. She thinks it looks cool, like a little Mercedes.....and I could afford it.
I looked at the Beetle, Golf, Civic, and Cavalier last summer. All were comparable for price, within $3000 for similar equipment. The Cavalier and Civic were doggy with little road feel and not much curb appeal. The seats were not as firm or as adjustable. The decision came down to the Golf or the Beetle, equipment and engine. After driving both on the same day, we decided that the Golf had a slight edge on the creature comforts but it reminded my wife of our old Dodge Omni. Not a fair comparison, I know, but I have to live with the decision. Besides, the Beetle is new and cool looking. The other reason for buying was to have a car to send my sixth grader to college in. I have no doubts that the Beetle and the TDI will still be alive and well for the next 10 years until she graduates.
We bought the TDI with the luxury package. Wanted leather but didn't want to wait for at least six weeks for a Cyber Green with Cream Leather. I could have gotten black leather, but in NC that would be like climbing into a hot oven in July. The TDI has plenty of pep. No, it won't beat you off the line, but I gave up on that kind of driving when I had to start paying my own insurance. What I care about is, will it get me out of trouble when necessary? The answer is yes. My wife's comment was that it hums at 90. Her ticket was for 82 and the Beetle was just floating. Am I looking forward to the high timing belt costs? No, but I have had many other vehicles that were more expensive to keep on the road.
Bottom line........ Buy what makes you happy and leave the rest of us alone.
Where in the NW do you live? I can recommend Rey Reece Friday VW in Portland, OR. Ask for Steve Burke. He will set you up great! I paid $500 over invoice for my silver TDI Jetta. No haggling. We had the negotiations completed in 5 minutes. DO NOT GO TO DICK HANNAH VW IN VANCOUVER, WA. I love my '01 TDI Jetta!
MY new HX hasn't come in yet (May), but all the reports are that it's fast 0 - 60 8.3 sec and has won awards for the best value in the world. The CVT is improved with a reduction in friction. Especially nice is the radio/cassette.
May i ask what you paid vs. sticker, excluding your state sales tax? Did the dealer say if the HX is a low production model, as I see few of them at dealers here in NJ. Thanks.
I took Delivery on a 2001 CyberGreen TDI in Dec. 2000 and I can't get enough of this little gem. Got the luxury package with black leatherette. My wife still complains about the smell of the leatherette, but she wasn't refused to drive it :-)I've read all the posting, both good and bad, and just wanted to add a little bit myself. I've owned bugs and microbuses on and off for 40 years. My best bug was a "71", and this new one just beats it all to pieces. As far as 40,000 miles for the timing belt replacement that has now been changed to be the same as the gas motor. My dealer says 60000 but we'll have to see about that. silage has been right between 45-52 ave., with the highest being 57.7 on a trip to N.Y.. This thing pulls like a little storm trooper, and is a highway cruisers delight, 90+ is a cakewalk. Trouble is that the local gendarmes frown on that kind of behavior, so I don't get to enjoy driving fast anymore. Too expensive. One of my few complaints is with the quality of dealer service. VW really needs to look at its' service organization. Unless the car is DOA the (mechanics??), technicians cannot fix anything that the diagnostic computer dosn't see as broken. My biggest complaint is the smoking when you first start it up in the morning. But, as someone said before, it keeps the bugs away. Fit and finnish where excellent. Dealer prep was great and it's a real pleasure to drive.
Timing belt replacement is 40,000 miles for automatic and 60,000 miles for manual trans.. If your timing belt breaks it will likely destroy the top end of the motor and require big $ for repair. If this happens and you did not have the belt replaced at the proper time then VWoA will not cover the repairs under the warranty. Word is that it is much more difficult to change timing belt on NB and cost at dealer is around $400 to $650 according to NB owners compared to $250 to $350 for Golfs and Jettas. What the heck is leatherette? Fancy vinyl?
Congrats on the new baby. Excellent choice of colors, I got my cyber green in June. The TDI runs like a champ. I've got 11,000 on it now. Try some Power Stroke from Walmat as a fuel additive. It helps with the smoke. Haven't seen any help with the milage. I get 45 in the city. Only had it on the open road once. I've got to get out more..............
Hi, I know that AC is not a standard option on the HX, but I want to find out what the invoice is for the AC. Could anyone direct me to a site that will tell me what that is. BTW, can I negotiate on the price of the AC when I purchase the HX, or is it something that I have to pay full price on? Thanks
In addition to the feedback here, you should check out Edmund.com's New Vehicle Appraiser, which will also give you a true market value estimate. Good luck and keep us posted. ;-)
Comments
How can I successfully get what you are getting- OPEN AND READY FOR ALL THE HELP I CAN GET.
Mileage of Civic HX Auto is 35/40
HP of Golf TDI = 90
HP of Civic HX = 117
Purchase cost of comparable cars as of 02/16/01 on CarsDirect website
Golf TDI $17,770 This is for GL 2 Door Auto
Civic HX $14,831 This is for HX 2 Door Auto (13,831 + 1,000 for dealer install AC)
Golf TDI requires new timing belt every 40,000 miles, requires synthetic oil, requires brake fluid every 2yr/24,000 miles. And a timing belt is around $350 including labor.
Civic requires first tuneup at 105,000 miles.
(don't listen to those TDI owners who keep saying that you save money on tuneups with diesel)
Diesel fuel today is $1.57 in my area.
Unleaded is $1.25.
Over 100,000 miles the fuel cost based on hiway mileage and above fuel costs would be;
$3488.00 for Golf
$3125.00 for Civic
$700.00 can be added to Golf for the two timing belt replacements.
So you will save $2939 on the Honda at purchase, $700 for timing belts you won't buy, and save $363 on fuel after driving 100,000 miles.
Buy the Civic and you will also have an extra 27 HP compared to Golf TDI.
You won't have to buy your fuel at truckstop if you buy Civic.
Quality of Civic is generally considered to be superior to the Golf.
There are more Honda dealerships than there are VW dealerships in USA.
Civic is assembled by American workers, Golf is assembled in Brazil or Mexico.
Ergonomics are better in Civic than in Golf. IMO.
Golf is more fun to drive. IMO.
If VW makes you happy, then get a VW, but if cost and performance are your criteria, get the Honda.
VW Golf TDI 12.5 Seconds (with the manual, auto is slower.
Honda Civic HX - 9.2 Seconds
The only thing the VW is eating for lunch is diesel fuel and the exhaust of the Honda Civic HX.
Does an increase in 4 MPG and 1.3 gallon larger fuel tank justify a diesel? The answer is no.
How hard do you have to look for Diesel?
I happen to like diesels. As soon as one is available that does not cost $3,000 more than it's competition, cost more to maintain, and cost more to operate, I'll own one.
And I have to add that trying to find a competent mechanic (other than VW dealer) to work on a diesel passenger car is much more difficult than it is for a gas Honda.
Anyway, when I first start up the car and accelerate in Drive the engine revs up for a second, there is a clunk, and then the car takes off smoothly. Same in reverse. Is this common with the CVT or does this indicate wear? One I drive a mile or so the condition goes away, however, there still is the slightest hesitation compared with my Camry automatic.
My 97 Civic doesn't have CVT but it does have the clunk shifting between first and second gear. It seems to come and go depending on how I drive it. Apparently there is nothing actually wrong with it, it's just a quirk of the transmission design.
Perhaps Honda's oversight in design carried over to the CVTs. Regarding the airbags, you could do a Carfax check and see if your car had been in an accident. My car had airbags as standard equipment and it's the least expensive model of Civic (DX). In any case, I would say that you needn't apply such a harsh word as loser, since you still have a great car that will give you next to no mechanical problems, really low depreciation, and very fine build quality.
Fun! VW is way more fun... actually we left the Honda lot bored and there are not many option packages/color choices.
Value! Almost maxed out for $20k each I even got leather and heated seats, sunroof and power everything (not offered on the Honda we looked at.
Safety! 5 stars for the Jetta (the only car in its class with that rating. The Beetle is not far behind.
Economy! 700 miles of range on a 14.5 gallon tank! We fill up once per month for a total cost for BOTH cars of about $35 to $40.
Warantee! 10year/100k engine and drive train! Wow!
Maintenance interval (every 10k miles after break-in)
These Volkwagens are fun! More fun than any Honda I could afford. The TDI is plenty peppy enough for me and they are both a BLAST to drive.
I noticed my Beetle was featured in this month's American Way magazine on American Airlines. I think they got it right.
Our last Honda was not as good as we expected either (1992 our daughter now drives) needed a new transmission at 135k, wheel bearings about the same time. The engine has been good so far and has 180k on it. The transmission rebuild was $2500 with labor and new axles.
The jury is still out on how long these diesels will last but I am betting a long, long time. And (did I say it yet) really fun to drive!
In North Dallas I payed 1.439 for my last fill-up for diesel. My daughter paid 1.379 for regular unleaded. 6 cents difference.
National Fuel Price Average as of 02/20/2001
Regular Mid Premium Diesel
Current Avg. $1.483 $1.574 $1.631 $1.601
Month Ago Avg. $1.492 $1.584 $1.642 $1.615
Year Ago Avg. $1.395 $1.481 $1.535 $1.541
*Prices are in US dollars per gallon
Why is cost of fuel so low in Texas? Transportation of fuel to market adds less than 1 penny per gallon. Are the fuel taxes added by the state very low?
The tax on diesel is higher than on gas by a few cents. The price varies a lot just locally. I have seen 1.599, 1.499 and 1.439 all within a couple miles for diesel. I chose the 1.439 (and I only buy diesel about once a month with the 700 mile range).
Unleaded also varies, I saw 1.399, 1.439 and then one station lowered their price this morning to 1.299 from 1.379 yesterday.
Diesel does not move as fast as gas in price so it really lags going down and going up. Last summer diesel was much cheaper than gas.
Anyway, my monthly fuel bill for my beetle is usually less that $20, it was about $22 when diesel was 1.599.
Fuel savings is great but I like the torquie engine, leather heated seats, sunroof and powerful stereo, the 6 way adjustable seats. I also like how relativly quiet the car and it rarely smells like a diesel. Most of all it is blast to drive.
My wife likes the Jetta better. She thinks it looks cool, like a little Mercedes.....and I could afford it.
We bought the TDI with the luxury package. Wanted leather but didn't want to wait for at least six weeks for a Cyber Green with Cream Leather. I could have gotten black leather, but in NC that would be like climbing into a hot oven in July. The TDI has plenty of pep. No, it won't beat you off the line, but I gave up on that kind of driving when I had to start paying my own insurance. What I care about is, will it get me out of trouble when necessary? The answer is yes. My wife's comment was that it hums at 90. Her ticket was for 82 and the Beetle was just floating. Am I looking forward to the high timing belt costs? No, but I have had many other vehicles that were more expensive to keep on the road.
Bottom line........ Buy what makes you happy and leave the rest of us alone.
If your timing belt breaks it will likely destroy the top end of the motor and require big $ for repair. If this happens and you did not have the belt replaced at the proper time then VWoA will not cover the repairs under the warranty.
Word is that it is much more difficult to change timing belt on NB and cost at dealer is around $400 to $650 according to NB owners compared to $250 to $350 for Golfs and Jettas.
What the heck is leatherette? Fancy vinyl?
I know that AC is not a standard option on the HX, but I want to find out what the invoice is for the AC. Could anyone direct me to a site that will tell me what that is. BTW, can I negotiate on the price of the AC when I purchase the HX, or is it something that I have to pay full price on? Thanks
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