2011 Toyota Sienna

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  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    You can generate as much brake fluid pressure as you like, as much as you can, but unless the Prius' skid control computer enables frictional braking by opening the manifold ports NONE of that pressure will reach the brake calipers. That's how the Prius manages the apportionment of the braking effort between frictional/hydraulic and regenerative braking. The skid control computer has individual LINEAR manifold brake pressure porting controls for each of the 4 wheels.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But some pressure did reach the brakes, note how much they wore down. The article in the WSJ said the wear was not consistent with strong braking, either, so he was feathering the brakes and accelerating.

    Sikes also said he was standing on the brakes but the CHP reported he saw the brake lights coming flashing.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The CHP officer has now submitted a more detailed written report in which he says he saw Sikes in a "posture" that indicated he was using all the strength he could muster on the brake pedal but as the officer observed even though they were travelling uphill the Prius was not slowing.

    It was only after Sikes applied the e-brake that the Prius began to slow down.

    All perfectly consistent with the skid control not allowing frictional braking or minimal frictional braking.

    20-30 minutes, 1200 to 1800 seconds and a total of 500 combined brake/gas pedal applications, one every 2-3 seconds, does that even sound humanly possible..or even reasonable?? And is there even time for the drive train to react with any reasonable level of drive torque between those 4-6 second brake pedal depressions..??

    Sounds more like the kind of thing that would result from a rather serious computer coding fault.
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    I don't have much knowledge of how hybrids work in this case (I didn't really like the Camry I had opportunity to drive) but every other vehicle I've operated, pushing hard enough on the brakes will induce mechanical braking even if the brake fluid is completely drained. This mechanical braking is a matter of safety in case of complete brake failure and I cannot imagine why Toyota engineers would inhibit it. Pulling the parking brake- commonly and incorrectly referred to as the emergency bake- is something that really is not advisable at speed unless you want to spin out (I've did it a number of times in my foolish youth as a fun way to make a FWD car do a quick 180).

    I had a Shi.. er Chevy once that developed a blockage in a front brake line that mildly applied the brake on one wheel. Unknowingly, I drove a couple miles like that only noticing a pull to that side, but when I got out I found the brake disk glowing red with heat. When cool, the disk was badly warped, the pad wear was visibly different and the entire caliper had to be rebuilt. The point is even moderate braking pressure over an extended period of driving even at normal speeds will cause a dramatic heat buildup in the brake, causing easily observed damage.

    Conclusion: The guy wasn't pushing the brakes as aggressively as he pretends.
  • quattroheadquattrohead Member Posts: 12
    "pushing hard enough on the brakes will induce mechanical braking even if the brake fluid is completely drained"
    You are kidding, right ???? Or maybe confused.
    All brake systems have 2 circuits split diagonal and a loss of fluid in ONE circuit will still leave braking available via the other circuit.
    The Sikes case is an interesting one, I am sure it would be more difficult to discredit the driver if they were say a good catholic nun !!!
    I think there is a computer problem that would be much easier to track down if Toyota were more honest with themselves. You have to remember, most driver "control" is just inputs to a complex computer and in this case the guy could well have been pressing hard on the pedal but the computer overriding him via brake or engine control error.
    As of right now, I will not be buying a Toyota or Honda van until the situations are completely understood, explained and FIXED.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2010
    "..overriding him via brake or AND engine control error..."

    In the Sikes case BOTH.

    The HSD system control computer was "stuck" in cruise control "set/accel" mode while the skid control computer would not allow hydraulic/frictional braking without "permission" from the HSD control computer.
  • buytbuyt Member Posts: 1
    Looking for base Sienna + mats + security. Nothing else.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Source? I haven't seen the latest.
  • mbengembenge Member Posts: 18
    These are just my thoughts. I don't know if anyone will care, but I thought I'd share. If you don't care stop reading now. After a couple of months of going back and forth we've ended up with a 2010 Odyssey. For us it came down to function and preference. We have owned 4 Toyotas, and wanted to remain loyal. However, in our book the old Odyssey out does the new Sienna in some significant ways. This is comparing a 2010 Honda EX-L to the 2011Sienna XLE. First, power passenger seat in front not on the Sienna. Second, no FWD 7 Passenger option in an XLE. Yes, you can remove the 8th seat but then your left with that silly cup holder thing on the floor that can't be moved. Yet they can make an AWD 7 passenger XLE? :confuse: Third, visibility is not good. For my wife the rear view mirror was almost useless. Finally, and this is preference, the Odyssey just handles better. The Sienna's steering feels very vague and loose (especially at lower speeds). The Sienna is sharp looking and the instruments are all very sleek and cool. I am disappointed :( it didn't appeal more from a functional stand point.
  • fly2livfly2liv Member Posts: 2
    Mbenge- I understand your thought process. I had a 2000 Odyssey that I was tired of and ready to move into something newer and more exciting. I had been anxiously waiting for the Sienna, however when I finally went down to the dealer to check it out there were small details that Toyota hadn't really though out well. When I hit my head while sitting in the 2nd row seats of the Sienna Limited (I'm only 6 feet tall) that was the end of the road. I could either wait patiently for the new Odyssey and hope that they didn't make similar mistakes, or I could go back and check out the 2010 Odyssey.

    After reading about the 2010 Odyssey and the below invoice pricing deals currently in play I jumped on a 2010 Odyssey with nav and rear seat entertainment. It has been ten years since I bought my first Odyssey with no leather and absolutely no options for ~$32,0000 because dealers were charging several thousand over MSRP. I bought a fully loaded 2010 Odyssey ten years later for almost exactly the same price! Amazing.

    I love the exterior looks of the Sienna and really wanted to have one to call my own, but alas it wasn't the right time.
  • xando05xando05 Member Posts: 42
    While waiting for my car in service at my local Toyota dealer, to waste time, I decided to take a quick seat in the 2011 Sienna. I was really excited to sit in the big comfy looking barcalounger type seats.

    I was really surprised to find out, upon sitting in the seat that my legs were too long for the extended footrest. I would have to flex my legs(I'm 5'11) for my feet to rest comfortably on the footrest. I tried making some minor adjustments to the seat position, but without any luck. I guess the seat is designed for passengers a lot shorter than myself.

    Any thoughts?
  • mbengembenge Member Posts: 18
    Thanks for the affirmation... We didn't get quite the deal I wanted on the Odyssey. The nashville market is holding strong, but we were well under invoce, and the dealership provides some services that only the luxury guys usually do.
    One other thing occured to me about the Sienna. The Antenna on the XLE and lower trims. What is up with that 1990's, Corolla-esq antenna. At least on the Corolla you could push it down. Another thing that is better on the Odyssey.
  • hokiehighhokiehigh Member Posts: 16
    I went to Toyota dealer yesterday to test drive the Sienna, the ride is not as soft as I thought. One question I forgot to ask the sales guy was if the windshield wiper de-icer is standard on XLE, I remember the previous model has that feature.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That just means the CHP believed him.

    I'm sure the CHP would have felt differently if he knew this guy ran a porn web site, was bankrupt, had conducted fraud in the past, and owed Toyota $19,000.
  • jabcjabc Member Posts: 20
    Test drove an XLE during a test drive event in LA downtown on last Sunday.
    Got some gifts, but the parking is $8.00.

    Comparing with my 2002 Odyssey :
    The handling appears to be at the similar level (can’t wait to test an SE).
    The cargo space appears to be bigger.
    The center base is acceptable to me. It looks like a booster seat with 2 cup holders on the floor.
    The acceleration is not very impressive.
    Short test drive, so that’s all I got to share.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Finally drove a 2011 Sienna. I drove an LE 8 passenger. For background, I have an 07 Odyssey EX-L.

    Impressions:
    Likes:
    -Interior Dash Layout--love the 3.5 inch display, great place for trip computer info.
    -Modern electronics--far better looking than the previous generation (which looked very dated and ugly)
    -I'm fine with the dash materials
    -Lots of room up front--felt very open and airy, even compared to the Odyssey
    -Once up to speed, very quiet--very little wind and road news
    -Suspenion dampened well--without feeling too soft
    -Nice little details, like lighted cupholders
    -Bluetooth even on LE

    Neutral
    -Little disappointed in the powertrain-I remember it really feeling faster than the Ody in the previous gen--not so much this time. It IS quicker, but it doesn't feel as effortless and frankly it is pretty noisy--noisier than the Ody at full throttle.

    Dislikes
    -Steering. And ultimately, this is probably the deal breaker, at least for my wife. This thing has very, very loose steering at lower speeds. It just "feels" big--my wife remarked that it felt like she was driving a much larger vehicle and she didn't like it. The feelings were a bit artificial, with a lot of play. It took more concentration and effort to steer the car.
    -The way its packaged. I've ranted aobut this before--can't get a DVD without buying premium package in MidAtlantic
    -Fit and finish. In the car I drove, the cloth seat was misaligned with the base--so there was a big, ugly gap between the cloth and the hard plastic seat. Not good.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if the curb weight has gone up, to dull the acceleration?

    Steering on the SE is supposed to be better.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    I think that is probably exactly what it is--higher curb weight. I haven't checked but that is what is logical. I can't explain the engine noise though--certainly noiser than the previous generation.

    Unfortunately, the SE is only going to be available in that charcoal leatherette. We don't do dark interiors...beige or bust, baby! (Actually, grey is fine too unless it is really dark--the charcoal is really dark.)

    I was at the Toyota dealership today getting my TCH dealt with and I talked to a sales manager about packaging. He said they are not allowed to order a vehicle configured differently than Central Atlantic Toyota offers, and that they can't go a dealer trade because the values are never equal. The best they can do is for you to buy a vehicle out of region and have it shipped to the local dealer, which I wouldn't do.

    Sienna didn't see to be getting much traffic at either Toyota dealership I was at. One other person looking at it, but nothing compared to Prius/RAV4. Honda sold 12k Odys in Feb--up over '09--be interesting to see where Sienna comes in with a full first month. I've seen a fair number on the road, but then again I live in the minivan capital of the world.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Over 200HP in a FWD "soccer mom" minivan may mean DBW "mapping" may be used for partial engine derating/detuning in the lower gear ranges. Might not be so bad in the F/awd version wherein the low speed engine torque is more evenly distributed over the road surface.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 2GR V6 is noisier than the 3MZ (3.3l used from 04-06) likely due to the timing chain (vs. belt).

    Belt is quieter, but the chain doesn't need to be changed, so I'll accept that trade-off. They also added insulation to the firewall and door jambs for 2007 to compensate somewhat. I wonder if the 2011s have less insulation?
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    I don't know about insulation in the 2011 Siennas, but the two XLEs that I drove the engine noise was very noticeable to me. Not at all what I was expecting. From other posters' comments, I was anticipating a Lexus cabin. NOT.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    They are using the same engine as the pre-2011's, which is a little noisy, especially during acceleration. The Odyssey's engine sounds quieter and more refined, although road noise is more noticeable.

    Regarding packaging; it was mentioned so many times all over that Toyota needs to improve in this area. I guess they are deaf (until some recalls happen).

    IMO, they should offer the SE's steering in all models. Drop the loose, numb, power assisted steering. No one likes it (although many does not seem to care).

    And as someone above mentioned, the steering wheel is a bit bigger than the Honda's, giving you the feel of driving a bigger vehicle, but not too much. I think the Siennas steering wheel is still smaller than Chrysler's gigantic wheel.
  • daflipdaflip Member Posts: 1
    We took a chance and bought a 2011 Sienna limited. We already regret the decision and it has only been 3 weeks! The entire 3rd row seat is defective, the service dept at power toyota is over loaded with recalls and has been totally useless. The row has to be replaced but they do not know how long it will take, the fact that the seat does not secure to floor clips is very scary when you consider our children would not be safe if an accident occurred. It is another example of Toyota building an unsafe vehicle. It is a our 4th and last Toyota, regardless of the outcome of the current recall situation Toyota will never be the company it was and there are far better choices.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1 post? Why did you only decide to join the discussion now?
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    Sorry to hear about your seat problems. There was a 2011 Sienna buyer that posted on Edmunds within the last week. They were able to get the dealer to buy back the van because of AC problems. Maybe your dealer will do the same.

    I think Toyota has is so focused on CYA on the accelerator problem that they have lost vision on quality across the board. My wife and I really wanted to get a 2011 Sienna. A couple of test drives and close looks changed our minds. We went Honda Odyssey. They have their issues also.
  • frank_cfrank_c Member Posts: 19
    Does anyone know what "sport fabric inserts" in the SE seats are made out of? Is it leatherette-based mesh? Or some kind of nylon-based mesh? Could not find any information online.

    The key issue - is this water repellent material and/or permeable. With three young kids it is pretty much imperative to either have full leather seats or material which does not absorb whatever is poured etc. on it.

    Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I used to think that also, but then I realized - the kids sit on safety seats or boosters anyway.

    Plus spilled liquids would penetrate the seams, it's not just going to hold water.

    We wash the removeable covers for the seats often.
  • nikkib3nikkib3 Member Posts: 1
    So if you do the "internet pricing" and they give you a price, is that their final bottom line price or do you haggle over that price too? (I'm looking at a 2011 Sienna Limited)
  • ericd12ericd12 Member Posts: 7
    edited April 2010
    Within a couple days of picking up our 2011 Sienna we noticed the trunk was completely soaked with water - we had puddles in it! It had been raining heavy but we never had any windows or vents open. So back to the dealer our van goes with 140 miles on it! Turns out the service dept had to redo a factory seal - I cant believe it - is there any QA being done on cars any more? We have been fans of the product in the past (this is our 4th Sienna) but now questioning our decision.
    Anyone else have this issue?
  • mbengembenge Member Posts: 18
    I would take no less than an exchange for a new van. I would not be content at all with a vehicle that has had water sitting in it. How long had it sat on their lot, and gotten wet in it before? Even if they cleaned it up I would not be happy. The dealer we bought our Odyssey from has a 72 hour return period.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did they do a good job drying it up? Is there any residual smell?

    I keep a box of baking soda in each or our cars.
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    Wow, no excuse for that from Toyota. I would also be demanding a new van.
  • mahikmahik Member Posts: 1
    I recently purchased 2011 Sienna Limited for 39350$ +Taxes. Is this a good deal? or i should have negotiate more?
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    Since you already purchased your van it is a done deal. Just go ahead and enjoy your new van.

    To give you a feel of how well you did, it would be helpful to know the MSRP of the van.
  • avucarguyavucarguy Member Posts: 56
    If the van is less than 2 - 3 weeks old, I don't think it as unreasonable to ask for a replacement van. I think Toyota should give this person a new replacement Sienna considering all the bad press they've received lately.
  • ericd12ericd12 Member Posts: 7
    Yes, van came back dry and no residual smell. Still cant believe something like that can make it off the assembly line without being noticed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2010
    The probably test a small sample, not every one.

    Toss in a box of Arm & Hammer baking soda anyway.

    Once in a while I vacuum and I find 3 month old french fries back there. :sick:
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    edited April 2010
    Sitting again yesterday in the 2011 Sienna, I noticed that they removed the excellent, useful storage bins at the front doors armrests!! I can not understand why they did it? I loved it so much!! I was hoping for these, in addition to an in-floor storage, similar to Chrysler's vans; but NONE??

    And that's besides changing the interior door grab handles to something very disappointing. I would love to have the vertically aligned design, found on many other Toyota vehicles, like Camry, Highlander, Rav4, and more. They're so much more comfortable! But still the pre-2011 were much better than the 2011's.

    I think that in many regards, Toyota went backwards.

    Time for a re-re-design!! 2012 by any chance?? :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's always a struggle to contain costs.

    Given the prices went up a bit (V6 no longer standard, too), you'd think they could have kept everything. :(
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    edited April 2010
    that is one of the BIGGEST mistakes done in the new Sienna.

    Instead of trying to compete with the Chrysler minivans, which offer power rear door on most models, even on lower end (at least as an option); Toyota just "expanded" this option from Limited only (pre-2011) to XLE.

    I believe most people which opt for power sliding doors, are in need of a power rear liftgate as well.

    That's besides other dumb things not copied from Chrysler, like not adding in floor storage; and not offering a built-in hard drive based mp3 player, or hard-disk-based navigation system in higher end models (Toyota is using instead old fashioned DVD-based navigation).

    Bottom line, from all of my previous posts, I think Toyota have not done their research right. I must applaud them for many nice features added, and nice revised interior, but they must take notice, if they would like to stay stronger.
  • chatmanrchatmanr Member Posts: 11
    My internet sales person told me they are not available in the SE...can someone confirm? Why would they exclude that from a people hauler???
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    A quick look in my 2011 Sienna sales brochure indicates that your internet sales person is correct.

    Typical Toyota thinking on options. Make a buyer step up to next level to get what they want. I think the folks at Toyota that put these option packages together go around with their collective heads up their *****. l
  • eurotrash3eurotrash3 Member Posts: 8
    My biggest gripe was the fact that on non-Limited models the van comes with a mast radio antenna. What is this 1986? You can get a satellite-linked navigation sytem but it's old school whip antenna for the radio! The Limited models at least have a built-in diversity antenna like pretty much all modern cars on the road today. Also, the Limited AWD models don't have the power third-row seat feature like they do on the Limited FWD models. I wish they would have made this clearer in the brochures as most folks (myself included) will think the only difference between the AWD and FWD is the drivetrain. This missing feature coupled with the run-flat tire annoyance and the AWD's higher price made getting the Limited FWD an easy decision.

    I do very much like, however, that Toyota tucked the rear wiper underneath the roof spoiler on the back of the van. That's a nice design touch. Also, they kept the sliding door rails integrated with the rear window, something Honda has yet to figure out how to do.
  • nobonobo Member Posts: 305
    Toyota's mast antenna is a turnoff. So is the lack of "Blizzard Pearl" paint on certain models. I also like the rear wiper tucked under the Spoiler, and the push button start. Just don't like the fact you have to buy expensive packages to get a real antenna and the push button start. And, as another poster mentioned, you can't get NAV or DVD in the SE model.

    Agree the sliding door rails integrated with the rear window looks clean. Perhaps it is a design patent that keeps Honda from doing this feature. At least Honda puts the cruise controls on the steering wheel.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Rear wiper/spoiler.

    Nice styling but a lot less functional, limited rear view where you need it most.
  • chatmanrchatmanr Member Posts: 11
    Thanks for your reply. Because minivans were meant to haul people, and the technology is obviously out there for an OEM setup, I will either wait or look at the Odyssey again...I want a sporting minivan that I won't [non-permissible content removed] about driving, which was why I was excited that the SE was coming out...but no OEM entertainment solution for the SE means no sale to me and other likely other dads and moms that thought you guys had come to our rescue, and we could dump our SUV's...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the "power package", i.e. power sliding doors on both sides and a power hatch, should be offered across the lineup, even base/4 cylinder models.

    They did add 3 zone climate control to all models, plus the backup cam on most.

    Strange, because of those 3 I think the power hatch would be the most useful. Got something heavy in your hands? Just press a button.
  • 1022cj1022cj Member Posts: 1
    We've had our 2011 Sienna XLE for about 6 weeks now, and the battery has DIED twice already. Anyone else having this problem?

    Is it possible that charging a cell phone for 1/2 hour without the engine running could drain a new car battery?

    Thanks...
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