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That would be a valid point--if the answers coming from Clunkers HQ were at all consistent. Unfortunately there are a number of examples posted in this very forum to illustrate that they are not.
You are WAY WAY off in all your statements. I've got the data to show you but it requires an entire thread. This subject has been beaten to death for 15 yrs now. Your position is always wrong, not sometimes wrong, always wrong. I have the numbers to show you why. But it doesn't belong in this thread.
Stop complaining about everything. Every subject that comes up ends up in some kind of whine about injustices.
Bottom Line: Not much of a difference anymore.
No vehicle that gets 20 MPG was included. If your old vehicle gets 20 MPG someone at the dealership screwed up. Before you give them back your new car talk to BofA. They may want a big penalty for early payment. The Honda dealer should get stuck with that. Let the Bank fight it out with the dealer. They have a lot more stroke than you do. Once you hand the keys back you could be nicked for all sorts of charges from the dealer and the bank.
[quote: kernick]
Even vehicles which are assembled in the U.S. do not mean that the majority of the labor and wages of the build are in the U.S. Someone mentioned Hondas - I know for years that many of the engines and transmissions are imported, along with almost everything else electronic. So a U.S. assembled Honda probably still has more hours of foreign labor in the parts than U.S. labor.[/quote]
I did this type of analysis for years. A good part of the data is available right here on Edmunds. These whines belong in another thread.
Today, dealers are frantically trying to move the old trade-ins to the scrap heap so that they can get reimbursement before the money tap shuts off. Until they can certify that the car has been decommissioned, they cannot submit their paperwork to be repaid.
“Oh my God, what a mess today,” Sally Ann Maggio, who co-owns Hackensack Auto Wreckers, also in New Jersey, said on Friday. We visited her car-crushing business on Thursday. She didn’t think much of the program to begin with.
Ms. Maggio said she generally makes her profit by reselling the engines, the most valuable parts of the cars she takes, but that’s not posible with the cars coming to her because of the cash for clunkers program, because they have been rendered unusable. That cuts down the salvage value of the cars — and the incentive for salvage yards and wreckers to take them — to almost nothing, considering the time and energy they must spend in going to the dealer, towing back the dead cars, removing the engines, crushing the bodies and shipping them to a metal scrap shredder and recycler.
And, of course, the process reduces the supply of used engines for people who can’t afford to buy a new car and come to the salvage yard looking to fix up old ones.
In any case, Ms. Maggio said, dealers are “hitting the panic button” today.
“We have been overwhelmed with phone calls from the dealerships,” she said. They have already killed the engines, and want her to pick up the heaps.
And on hearing the news that the government might be pumping more money into the program, she said, they are stepping up the process. “They’re worried that the new money might last only two days,” Ms. Maggio said. “But until it’s scrapped and the paperwork is done, it’s not a done deal,” she said. “They’re driving me crazy.”
Mr. Kurkin, the lawyer in Miami, said that many dealers are attaching clauses to their sales agreements, saying that if the government money does not come through, the customer will have to make up the difference.
“If a dealer doesn’t have a separate document addressing this possibility, the dealer will likely have to eat it,” Mr. Kurkin said. “I certainly see a lot of litigation over this.”
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/dealers-race-to-get-their-clunkers-c- rushed/?hp
While the government’s “cash for clunkers” program may be stalled at a yellow light, a group of private auto dealers is stepping into the breach.
The group, made up of about 50 of the nation’s biggest dealers, who sell both foreign and domestic makes, are hoping to capitalize on the popularity of the “cash for clunkers” program with their own “automotive stimulus program,” but with looser requirements.
“So many customers were so close to qualifying,” but their cars did not meet the government requirement of getting less than 18 miles per gallon, said Brian Benstock, general manager of Paragon Honda, Paragon Acura of Brooklyn, and one of the participating dealers. Still, he said, the government program was clearly successful, which is why it ran out of money. On Friday, the House voted to add $2 billion to the program; the Senate is to vote next week.
Set to run for 12 weeks, the dealers’ plan requires that the clunkers being traded in have been registered and insured by the owner for just six months, half the government’s requirement. It also allows customers to trade in their clunkers for used cars, not just new ones.
“Clunker customers would like the option of going from a 15-year-old car to a 5-year-old car,” Mr. Benstock said. The government plan requires that the customer buy a new car that gets at least 4 more miles per gallon than the clunker; the dealers’ plan says only that the replacement car be more fuel-efficient, so it could get just one more mile per gallon.
I may have to look them up.
In the meanwhile we booked 10 or 12 more today leaving us with a worse problem. We're running out of inventory. With August always being the biggest selling month of the year we now sit at 21 days of inventory on hand with maybe another 15 days of inventory inbound. That's impossible.
Pretty soon we're going to be selling new models of Corolla's and Prius', ones that even Toyota hasn't seen.
..the 2010 Toyota Corolla CrewMax 5.7L 4WD.
..the 2010 Toyota Prius SR5 V6 4WD
Right after that we're going to be selling white stripes with huge discounts. Why will C4C slow down? Watch, shortages of certain products come midmonth will mean that a good number of C4C orders won't be able to be sent to the DOT until the new vehicles are shipped and arrive on the lot.
I love comments like this from business people. They make it sound like someone else is forcing them to do this and someone else is deciding what they pay for the heaps. If they are worth less, then offer to pay less. If it isn't worth doing at all then don't do it.
Are you sitting in a dealership writing these? Because you sure sound like Mr. Slick Carsalesman with all the answers, who talks too much and doesn't take time to learn. Maybe you need to reevaluate what you think you know, like even Mr. Greenspan had to.
Anyway your dead-wrong about the new car sales generating much profit directly. Unless you're considering the gouging for the dealer-add-ons, selling of extended warranties, and getting people to take 10% loans.
And if you are working in the auto industry, then just about everything you say here is extremely biased. What is good for you and dealers, is certainly not the best use of tax-money.
You want to say that people who don't want their tax $ given away are "whining"? - are you really surprised; well it's better than the various begging and threats coming from those working in the self-destructed auto industry. You should consider retiring before you tie yourself to another self-destructing industry. :P
I only hope that the powers that be on both sides can get their acts together and finish the program with positive resolutions for all.
G-d bless america...the greatest country in the world!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I am writing to you concerning the Cash for Clunkers program that the government is doing. When this first came out I was excited because I own the ultimate gas guzzling clunk. I want to purchase a more fuel economical minivan that will seat my family. The average minivan is rated above 20 MPG. My vehicle is a 1990 Ford Club Wagon E250 passenger van with a 7.5L/460 engine in it and GVWR of 8550. The front has two seats for the drive and passenger and then the back has two bench seats that seat three people each. This van is lucky to get 10 MPG on the highway.
Due to the GVWR of 8550 and my vehicle not being listed on the fueleconomy.gov web site the cars.gov website puts my vehicle in category 3. Category 3 truck define by the 136 page PDF rule on cars.gov (http://www.cars.gov/files/TheRule.pdf) page 26 states A category 3 truck is a work truck and is rate between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight. This category includes very large pickup trucks and very large cargo vans. My van is neither a work truck nor a cargo van but a passenger van. The rules for purchasing if you have a category 3 is that you can only purchase another category 3 or category 2 vehicle, not a category 1.
In addition on page 25 the rule states that a category 1 truck is a non-passenger automobile. This category includes sport utility vehicles, medium-duty passenger vehicles, small and medium pickup trucks, and small and medium passenger and cargo vans. The footnote for medium-duty passenger vehicles states that it is defined in 49 CFR 523.2. 49 CFR 523.2 (http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title49/49-6.1.2.3.7.0.1.2.html ) as well as the glossary link from the cars.gov web site (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/carsglossary.htm) defines Medium Duty Passenger Vehicle (MDPV) A vehicle with a GVWR greater than 8,500 lbs. and less than 10,000 lbs. that is used primarily for transporting passengers. These vehicles are designed to seat 9 or fewer passengers behind the driver or designed with a seating capacity of 12 persons or less By the definitions and rules my van should be a category 1 vehicle. I have contacted the cars.gov hotline twice only to have my name and number taken down and that a specialist will be contacting me in two days. It has been a week and no one has contacted me. The hotline also told me to contact my representative if I did not like they way the government was doing the program. I have contacted many dealers, but all of them state if the web site says category 3 there is nothing they can do. I could live with my vehicle being a category 3 if it let me purchase a category 1 vehicle. My only option now is to by a vehicle considered a work truck as many of the larger passenger vans that would be a category 2 vehicle are not qualified under the program because they do not get at least 15 MPG.
I am turning to you as a last resort. I am not trying to cheat the system. I feel I have a legitimate gas guzzling clunker and it models what the program is supposed to do, get large clunkers off the road and newer more efficient vehicles on the road. I would like my van to be in category 1 on the cars.gov web site or the government should at a minimum change the verbiage in the 136 page rule.
People that get 10% rates deserve their 10% rates because they didn't pay their bills.
No...or by the time they change the category the money will be gone, anyway.
I do love the logic of this definition, though:
"a category 1 truck is a non-passenger automobile. This category includes...medium-duty passenger vehicles...and small and medium passenger...vans." :confuse:
link title
Correct.
Banks today only allow dealers to mark up rates by 2 points. This prevents a dealer from marking up an approved rate of say 5.99% up to 10.00%. It's unlawful to do so.
If you get approved by a bank for 10%, then you should pay your bills on time and work on reducing your debt.
That brings me to a point about our government.....see if you can follow me....
The original $700B bail out to the banks was because people were so far in debt that they could not repay their loans, especially mortgages. Now, the government approves a few billion more for people to trade their clunker and most everyone is financing their new car. This puts more Americans deeper into debt!! Gotta love it...
I was an engineer until just lately, mainly working in Mfg. I have an MS degree in Business and Project Management. I'm just retiring now, before age 50. I'm able to do this because I'm a news junky especially about economic issues, and that's helped me get to where I am today, not needing to work tomorrow. I didn't get this way by government bailouts, or ripping people off thru hidden clauses and fraud.
I think I'm going to spend my free time now promoting the concepts of working-hard, don't spend more than you make, and stop putting future generations in a bad financial situation.
Getting back to this C4C, I think that this can only hurt auto-sales when it is over. It is basically pulling in future sales, and I would guess it is hurting used-car dealers right now. Overall this stimulus will have little net effect, since it does not create an overall NEED for cars.
It's quite ironic that the government is paying 2 manufacturers to create cars that are not wanted or needed right now, and then having to again pay-out money to move some of them!
...
The House of Representatives allocated $2 billion more on Friday to continue the program after it apparently burned through its original $1 billion budget in the week since its official July 24 start date. The measure faces opposition in the Senate, however.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/31/autos/nada_no_deals/index.htm
NO. You are limited to one Clunker Rebate. So you could turn in two qualifying vehicles, and get one $4500 rebate plus the actual value of the other tradein.
July 31 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar slumped to the lowest level of the year, U.S stocks climbed to a nine-month high and gold, oil and copper rallied after a smaller-than-forecast contraction in the economy sent investors to higher-yielding assets.
Programs like C4C may look like they are doing good for the country. When in fact it is just the opposite. Of course I don't expect to convince someone feeding at the trough to agree. So when the C4C money is gone the lots fill up again and sales go back to where they should be. 17 million vehicles sold in 2007 was a bubble that should have not been allowed by the lenders. We paid for that screw-up with TARP.
Hopefully the government will get this program restarted and resolve all the issues and be done with it. Folks need to learn to depend upon themselves instead of our government...makes for a much happier life!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Thats easy to say when its not you that has $100K plus on the hook. If you owned the business you would be more then a little worried
Really? You don't?
I guess you have blind faith in our government that these funds will reach us in a speedy fashion.
"It would be best to borrow funds"
Again, really?
You sure make a complex situation sound so simple!
I missed this the first time I read your post. Why should we have to borrow funds and pay interest on it when the government could just simplify the claims process.
I process the C4C claims here and it is very repitishes. I have to key stroke the same information several times and then have to upload documents that have all the information on it I just key stroked. If I can log on to a bank site and get automated approval for a $300K house pending review documentation why can't they have an automated approval for $4500 pending review of documentation. It is silly that we have to wait 3-5 days for someone to look at the paper work and then another 10 days for the money. And thats best case scenario.
We as the dealer should not be put at a disadvantage over a program we have no control over. Luckily I work in a store who is not and will not be cash strapped. I don't care how many we sell we have enough cabbage in the bank to continue on. But it still does not make it right.
Has the government paid your company the transactions you entered on Monday or Tuesday?
I am wondering why the government had paid millions already when the system for entering the transactions was barely working on Monday? The pay out must be less than 10 days for that to happen.
Or the payment is approved but not paid? Why the delay between approved and pay-out?
No - one credit per person only, one credit per clunker only, one credit towards new car only.
Pretty clearly spelled out on cars.gov website - check it out for details.
I assume VIN number of the clunker?
Do you have to certify the car has been disabled/destroyed or is that the job of the salvage company?
Info about the new car?
What else are they asking you to spend your evenings doing?
Thanks for the info!