Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?

dubforclunker

What is too many? New car had 5miles and I drove it home which was another 35miles. If say I’m nice and drive it back to the dealer for additional 35miles which brings a total of 75miles return the whole car, they would be that much of a jerk to bill me for the miles? If that’s the case, screw them I might not feel so nice and see them in court.

dubforclunker

Not that this would be a legal avenue for me but what triggered me to go trade in my 1997 Mitsubishi Diamante Sedan was after reading a Washington Post Article about a guy in New Year with the same car traded in for a brand new Honda CR-V.

Link to the Article

I guess I’m not the only person that “SUPPOSEDLY” traded in non-qualifying Cash for Clunker car. I suspect there would be at least a few more out there. C’mon fellas maybe a class action suit or something?

dubforclunker

That’s a very smart and logical thing to do but what if I finalize my deal without such addendum? I can see that you can go after the government if they don’t give you the rebate or money runs out, but in the addendum, do you have something that say your customers are required to bring the car back after driving it for a few days with about 500 miles on the car?

mitchflorida

Why did you pick a non-official website like www.cashforclunkersheadquarters.com to show to the dealer? Were you trying to pull a fast one? It specifically tells you NOT to use it for Cash for Clunkers calculation.

"This website helped promote the C.A.R.S. bill during the legislative process and has helped to inform the public about the program before the government launched their official information portal (www.Cars.gov). Now that the government has an official website for the program, we encourage you to visit it to view up to date information"

paul007

A good attorney could make a helluva good case that you acted in good faith and the dealer by not exercising due diligence in verifying that you car qualified for the program did not act in good faith. This might become a class action situation.

It might very well be that some dealers knew that the car would not qualify, but went ahead with it anyway. They are probably figuring that after driving the car for a few days you will fall in love with it and not want to give it back or pressure you to buy it straight out. You then ante up the difference. I would not put this past some dealers.

nortsr1

kernick: You have left out some other details in your statement!! The dock workers that unload the vehicle, the trucker that delivers the vehcle, the person at the dealership that then preps the new vehicle....and don't forget the truck driver had to stop and buy gas and food, etc., etc. There is a lot of money spent all around in this country for those "overseas delivered vehicles".... all helping our ECONOMY!!!!

disneygirlwv7

The dealership is the one who looked up and said my car qualified...before the date of July 24, sold us the car and took our clunker. My issue is can they really ask us to return our car and take the clunker back or pay them 2,000 more for the car??? I already payed for it!!!!!!

shoeymis

Just curious as to what state you purchased in that allows the use of Credit Cards to purchase a car? I tried to put a used one on my credit card (to get the points) in Minnesota as was told that was illegal by the dealer.

nortsr1

Well, it worked for my son yesterday. I went with him yesterday to a KIA dealer in NJ. He had previously checked the net for a good deal on a low priced basic vehicle. After he found a really inexpensive one in the dealer inventory, he called and was told they would sell him this vehicle (a 2009 Kia Spectra) for invoice and then also take toe 3000 dollal rebate off plus also take the 4500 dollar CFC off if his vehicle qualified. (He had already checked the cars.gov site and knew his 1990 Chevy Silverado 4x4 was eligble) ( that sucker was getting 9 miles per gallon) (he purchased it 5 years ago from thew original owner for $4500 and used it to snow plow in the winter and then just for local useage otherwise).
We arrived at the dealer at 9:30 A:M .. looked it the aforementiond Kia.. (an automatic with A/T, A/C and a radio)( no power windows,just a basic piece of transportation) (rated at 34MPG highway). The salesman started the paperwork and going on the computer for all the govt. required entries, etc., etc. No paperwork need as he paid cash for the approx. $9000.00 OTD price.
We left the dealership at 12 Noon (2.5 hrs. later) in his new 5 year, 60,000 miles warranty car. The car was very quiet, ran great and he was happy.
On the way home we had to go on an interstate hwy. and it merged swiftly and we got of to 75 mph with no problem.
End of CFC story.

mitchflorida

It would be based on what the contract said. Does it have a provision that you have to return the new car if your trade-in doesn't qualify for Cash For Clunkers? Did you mis-represent the car in any way? If not, I think they are stuck with their own mistake.

disneygirlwv7

No, it was not misrepresented in anyway....they checked and we were on the list at first...then congress changed the list and then it didn't qualify...but we already had the car for 2 weeks. It has a usual new car contract...nothing special for clunkers...but seems they have 30 days to do what they want....but if we wanted to return the car in 30...we have no rights to do that. I just think they are trying to get money out of us because they screwed up and I feel that is their issue, not mine....but still not sure. We are sitting on it right now. They want us to sign the papers, but I am not.

czp

Yeah, the car is in rough condition- needs new tires, A/C not working, check engine light is on, crack in the body under the rear window, and the passenger door won't open from the outside. Like I said, it has close to 145,000 miles on it, so it is what it is. Anyway, we figured we wouldn't get as much money on a private sale or trade-in as we would via C4C based on this:

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/ford/explorer/100002015/options.html?tmvaction=- - - - vdpresult

I don't think it's showing the values I entered in, but it pretty much states that we could expect around $2413 for trade-in, and $3338 private sale for a 2002 Explorer XTS 4WD in our car's condition.

nortsr1

follow-up to my CFC story...There is a big Chevrolet dealer next door to the Kia dealership and we had to go over there with the Kia Salesman to finish up the paperwork (the dlalerships are all under one ownership group). The Kia deralership we lft was busy,busy, busy. The Chevrolet dealership had four salespeople standing around and one customer finalizing a deal. On the way back we had to drive by a Honda Dealership and a Nissan dealership....both very busy showroom traffic!!

gagrice

I'm thinking you are right on the money. It is pretty simple to put the C4C car into the CARS.GOV website and the new car to find if it fits the criteria. Unless this deal was done prior to 7/24. Sadly hiring an attorney would probably be a huge waste of money. It will depend on how many deals go south because of dealers acting out of greed. I cannot find any evidence that the Diamante ever qualified. The old MPG was 21 and it has 19 MPG on the new EPA fueleconomy website. Someone is trying to pull a fast one.

just_looking09

The car I turned in does qualify, the car that they sold me is the one that does not qualify! The new car is listed as 20 mpg average and the minimum I think has to be 22mpg.
why should I have to pay because of their mistake. I have put at least 500 miles onthe new car , we got it 16 days ago.
if they want me to return the car and charge me for the added miles or pay the 4500 that was deducted I just don't think I am willing to do that.
I did not sign anything about the c4c program at all, nothing!
They want me to do that now.

Still need help on this one.
I don't want to be an [non-permissible content removed] about this , but they sold me the car, their car is the one that does not qualify and I am not paying for the mileage i put on a car that I thought was mine.

thanks

gagrice

Your best bet is to take the car back. Get your cash and your clunker and start over elsewhere. The program is very clear that any passenger car has to be 22 MPG combined. That precludes you from using your Clunker. If they want the deal to go through and use your old car as a regular down payment then you should sign the car over. I would not sign any C4C paperwork on an obvious fraudulent claim. They could drag you into their problems. Sounds like an over anxious dealer, without any knowledge of the program.

ldisler

What did you buy? Is it a car or truck? A truck only needs 5 MPG more to get $4500.

just_looking09

if you buy a car it has to have at least 22mpg combined mileage or it does not qualify,

and I bought a car that has 20 mpg combined, turned in a suv with 14 mpg combined

my old car does have a kbb trade of 2000 in fair condition

so.................................... ? still do not know what to do

kathyc2

The dealer is the one that screwed up not knowing the rules. From what you are saying, you didn't do anything wrong. If this is the car you really want, stick to your guns.

They can take your trade in at 4500 and not turn it in for C4C. They may hit a little hit on the deal, but that's not your problem.

just_looking09

thanks,
that is what i think..............................
but, that does not stop the dealer from coming after me..........
i hate this feeling
I do love the car but only bought it because of the deal and may have been able to buy the car and been close on the money without the c4c money and with trade in or private sale on mine.
i loved my suv , ford explorer Eddie Bauer, loaded, but, too high mpg

94gs

Just received email from CARS.gov saving "The CAR Allowance Rebate System (CARS) is still operating. (CARS Update 8-1-09) "

The problem is that if the processing system is so slow and dealers have many transactions pending without any status update, then they will have *no confidence* in keeping this program going.

The key is to fix the processing system and restore confidence for dealers waiting to get paid!

kathyc2

Because if the dealer "comes after you", you will make it very public. Bad word of mouth is going to hurt them more than a few hundred dollars.

They didn't know the rules when they wrote the deal. Or, possibly they did know the rules and tried to pull a scam. Either one is poor business practice. It's not like the MPG requirement changed from the 16th to when the official rules came out.

I would advise taking a strong willed support person in with you when you talk to them, so they don't try to guilt you into paying more.

What model car did you get?

just_looking09

2008 Hyundai Tiburon GT v6 auto

isellhondas

Yesterday, the website was totally bogged down. We couldn't even get in to see if a particular car qualified.

dubforclunker

I didn’t show a non-official website to the dealer to get the CFC deal. I happened to randomly read an article on the Washington Post about some guy trading an exact same car as my for a brand new Honda CR-V. I then google and clicked on www.cashforclunkersheadquarters.com and saw my car had MPG at 18. Then went to the dealer the next day and got the car without them telling me I didn’t qualified till after I drove the car off the lot. God honest truth. :surprise:

I didn't start reading about this edmunds.com forum board till I came home wanting to find out if people had the same problem as I did. I wish I read this thread before, but sort of got caught in the whole excitement of buying a new car and intense negotiating a car.

imidazol97

>There is a lot of money spent all around in this country for those "overseas delivered vehicles".

But think how much more would have been spent in the US and for the future of the manufacturing of US companies if the cars actually had been made here. :P

ldisler

Hold to your guns. They don't want the Tiburon back, it's a 2 year old car.
I think I would just ignore them, and park the car in a garage @ nite. I think legaly
they are in a corner. THEY SCREWED UP.

imidazol97

>The Chevrolet dealership had four salespeople standing around and one customer finalizing a deal. On the way back we had to drive by a Honda Dealership and a Nissan dealership....both very busy showroom traffic!!

Further proof this administration set up a program that benefits foreign manufacturers more than the US companies it was capable of helping jumpstart.

michnisjimenez

I am sorry but nowadays, even if it is a Honda or Toyota or Nissan, they have already been produced here in the US... your thinking is already a myth. Our Congressmen-politicians will no longer allow 100% foreign-made cars dominate the american market. You may say they are foreign-based BRANDS but STILL made in the US.
Worthwhile to note that there are American made [non-permissible content removed] brands that are a mix of production. You will see that the steel body is made in the US, the assemby of the body was made by the Mexicans, the engine came from Japan and the interiors were made by Canadians. What a mix!!!!!

stephen987

I agree that it would've been desirable to target US manufacturers more effectively. But there are a few facts that make it very difficult to do so:

1. The US is bound by a number of very detailed trade agreements that govern not only the sale of automobiles but also automotive components (steel, electronics, rubber, glass, and more). To provide preferential treatment to US manufacturers on the basis of the location of their headquarters would have created far greater economic problems as other nations retaliate against US products of all types.

2. There's no such thing as a truly US-made vehicle. Even vehicles made in the US by a US company (such as an F250) still include significant non-US content. Furthermore, many US brands assemble vehicles for the US market in Mexico (Ford Fusion, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Dodge Ram, and more), Canada (Chevy Camaro and Silverado, to name two popular choices), and Korea (Chevy Aveo).

3. Every major automaker in the US market has at least some manufacturing capacity here. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, BMW, Subaru, Mercedes-Benz, VW, Hyundai, and Kia all have or are building US factories. The largest-selling brand in the US that does not is Volvo.

4. US automakers trail the rest in the manufacture of ecologically sound vehicles. Some D3 vehicles are at or near the top of their class in fuel economy, but they are special versions (Cobalt XFE, Fusion S) that can be difficult to find on dealer lots. Compared to that, most of the Asian companies are ahead, at least in terms of the number of vehicles on the lot that will produce a meaningful mpg gain compared to the typical clunker.

It would be possible to overcome all of these objections, but not overnight. So while your idea of aiding US automakers in their time of need is potentially an admirable one, it is not viable within the current global economy.

Sandman6472

Personally think most people still aren't convinced at how much the Americans have improved over the years and want what they know. Also, when one can get a fuel efficient fun to drive Hyundai or Toyota, why would they even look at a Chevy Cobalt or Ford Escort...makes no sense. The big 3 know how to do it...why has it taken so long to bring new fun cars to market that either meet or beat their foreign competition? Guess with private planes & perks for the head honchos at GM, Ford & Chrysler, product quality & desireability just didn't seem to matter much.
What am I missing here?

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

stephen987

Also, when one can get a fuel efficient fun to drive Hyundai or Toyota, why would they even look at a Chevy Cobalt or Ford Escort...makes no sense.

Well, if they're looking at an Escort, they are looking at an eight year old car! I agree--that makes no sense.

imidazol97

>your thinking is already a myth.

That is dead wrong.

This reply has no relevance to what I stated.

Sandman6472

That's why we own 4 foreign brands, the Cobalt & Focus that we tested were just subpar compared to the competition that it was a no brainer to us. Being a 29 year government employee, it just irked me that we just can't "get 'er done"! If we could, I'd have 4 U S made vehicles in the driveway!!!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

jeffyscott

It would also have been a violation of free trade agreements to have had the law specify American cars only (no matter how that might have been defined).

mitchflorida

Exactly. If we ban the purchase of foreign made vehicles, don't you think that they would retaliate against American-made goods? That is what exactly happened in the Great Depression , which eventually to the World War 2.

stephen987

Yep--google "Hawley Smoot Tariff" if you want to find out where that road leads.

michnisjimenez

Upon arriving home, I reviewed the long cumbersome retail contract of the new '09 Versa I got from a Nissan dealer. I noticed that the C4C rebate of $4,500 is included in the list of taxable items charged to me. I called the dealer but the manager insisted that those incentives from the car manufacturers and rebates from the gov't are classified as INCOME taxable to the buyer.
NO way, I said bec I remember reading a section in the CARS.GOV rules that the Dealer should be taxed, not me. I just couldn't find that section. Had anybody been taxed of the C4C rebate lately by a dealer? Please let me know how you have handled this case. I suspect the dealer is trying to pass on to me the tax that it should be paying. This must be a case of fraud, but do not know where to report it.

stephen987

It's not taxable to you as income. But it may be subject to sales tax depending on the laws of your state. These are two completely different things.

donwhiteauto

As a dealer I have taken every possible measure to make sure I have filed the "Cash for Clunkers" voucher system properly. I am speculating that quite a few dealerships will incorrectly process the "Cash for Clunckers" voucher.

imidazol97

>I am speculating that quite a few dealerships will incorrectly process the "Cash for Clunckers" voucher

Based on reports here, anecdotal though they be, you are right. I suspect not all workers at dealerships are the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to following the steps frequired by the website. However, it also sounds like the government folks, current administration, really botched up on processing and system setups for this program. And that is making it doubly hard for dealerships to do their part correctly and in a timely manner.

zimbochick

This is the only specific information I have been able to find, but it doesn't include all the states. I hope it helps:

link title/

chinhn

I wanted to trade my gas clunker, 1997 Mazda B4000 truck, 4.0 L 6 cyl. engine, 5 speed AT for 2009 Nissan Frontier 4 cyl AT but I can't. I can not trade category 1 truck (mine) for category 2 truck( Nissan Frontier) . Anybody knows why the Nissan Frontier is category 2 truck when Toyota Tacoma , Ford Ranger, Mazda B series are category 1 trucks. I am confused.

jamartinco

I have a 1998 Oldsmobile Silhouette minivan that the new CAFE ratings put at 19mpg - which is an immediate disqualifier. Did the car ever get a combined 19 mpg? Probably a few years ago, but my mileage has declined over the past couple of years, and 18mpg combined is what I get when I do highway driving. I called the CARS.gov hotline and was told that there is no way around the seemingly arbitrary CAFE calculations, and no way to handle exceptions. How frustrating, this car is as close to a clunker as most of the other cars. I will post any updates to my quest for cash for my clunker.

michnisjimenez

Thanks for the info it's helpful!

stat_daddy

I just bought a 2009 Civic Hybrid. We made room for this in our garage by selling a 2000 Ford Explorer 4wd Automatic XLS. I averaged combined 15 MGP which is what the government web site shows. There was 100K on the odometer. I sold it a few weeks ago for $3900. I am sure I could have gotten $4500 for it had I taken it to a dealer. I had taken great care of this vehicle and am sure it has another 100k on it easily. I was unable to justify sending it off to the trash heap after the care I took of this SUV. I feel very good about taking the $600 loss to provide someone else with what I think was a steal of a deal at $3900.

british_rover

Hey I assume someone at your dealership has a smart phone with internet capability? I can always get on fueleconomy.gov or CARS.gov with my iPhone even when I can't get on using a regular computer. I guess that they have a separate server handling mobile internet requests and it is not getting bogged down.

Give it a try see if that works.

stephen987

Anybody knows why the Nissan Frontier is category 2 truck when Toyota Tacoma , Ford Ranger, Mazda B series are category 1 trucks.

The folks who put together the categories don't really understand trucks. Not only did they base the category on wheelbase, which is dumb, they based the category on the shortest version of any given model. Since the Frontier isn't offered in a regular-cab version, the shortest wheelbase offered is in the King Cab version, which squeaks into Cat 2.

As I've said in these forums before, they should've based it on GVWR. Failing that, they should at least have based it on the specs of each particular truck, so that you could swap for a comparable (compact/midsize) truck such as the Frontier, as long as the mileage was better.

But they didn't. This is one of the problems when automotive regulations are assembled by folks who don't really know much about cars.

gracenumber2

I WAS taxed by Dealer(in GA) and should not have been. i was the first C4C deal they did on 7/24/09. Today, I reached the Finance man by phone after sending him EMail on sales tax explaining the law ... I sent him the link to GA law specifically stating C4C IS NOT subject to sales tax and explained the mistake. He is sending me a check the sales tax charged to me on the 4500...

gagrice

I feel very good about taking the $600 loss to provide someone else with what I think was a steal of a deal at $3900.

Good for you. You saved the pollution of building another car to take its place. Something this program has not addressed. It has more to do with getting rid of this years inventory than anything else.