Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

revka

"After a week in the Outback Sport, we — that is to say, the author — wanted one"

Here's a direct link to Edmunds' Road Test: 2002 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport, by Erin Riches. Let us know what you think. Happy Motoring! ;-)

Revka
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Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

ateixeira

Interesting review. Mosty positive, but mixed, likely because they keep comparing it to more expensive alternatives (Jetta 1.8T and the WRX wagons).

It's a shame they didn't have any snow to experience the AWD system for all its worth.

-juice

bluesubie

The funniest thing about the review, like juice mentioned, is the comparison to the Jetta in price. I took a friend to see the Jetta. After she loaded it up with options and saw the price, she ended up going with a Legacy GT. More car for similar money.

And those RE92's! Patti, you must admit that those tires are probably the biggest point of criticism across the board. SoA/FHI should look at some alternatives. Even other all-season Bridgestones.

Pretty good review though.

Dennis

paisan

Actually. I've taken a poll of std Subaru owners. And you know what? 80% of them actually like the RE92s. They are a great compromise between:

Tread Life
Noise
Grip
Gas Mileage
Price

For the average car driver they are fine. It's a small niche of performance drivers like you and I that find fault in them. I say, let the buyer upgrade them himself if he finds they aren't good enough on the performance side for him.

-mike

bluesubie

From what I've heard/seen people say, the RE950 is a much better tire.
Check out the tire rack's customer survey.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/hpas.jsp

The 950 placed 2nd while the 92 placed 14th. There have been some people here on Edmunds that wanted a better all-season tire (and not just summer performance tires) and switched to the 950.

You do have a point regarding price though.
Dennis

ateixeira

I've seen sticker prices in the $27k range for Jetta wagons. For more than $22k, I'd want a Passat.

-juice

hypov

I , for one, am not performance oriented and I do agree that the RE92s are just fine for (average) drivers like me. However, from this average driver, the RE92s (on Mom's '99 OBS) are crappy on snow - and the tires were barely worn.

-Dave

paisan

Surely you jest "I for one am not performance oriented"... Need I remind you that you are bringing in your car for some kind of noise that can only be generated @ 80-90mph...

-mike

hypov

comparison...
I'm average (non-performance) he he :-D

-Dave

seamus53

An interesting review, mostly positive. As Subaru usually does, the OBS provides a nice balance of features and performance for the money. The OBS does,however, seem disappointingly slow when equipped with the automatic. An impression I also had during my test drive. Not slow enough to keep me from buying one, but slower than I had expected. Could use another 20 hp or so.

The VW comparisons are interesting and you can't really fault the tester for making them. Yes, they are somewhat more expensive, but it all depends on what you want in a vehicle. Although AWD is certainly a nice feature, it is not a "make or break" feature for everyone, including myself. I've driven FWD cars for years and, with good snow tires, and even with all-season tires, have never had a problem in the moderate weather areas where I drive. As far as handling goes, an AWD vehicle with high horse-power like the WRX will indeed have an advantage over a FWD car of equal power. But with less powerful vehicles, the AWD is less of a factor as far as performance handling is concerned.

While a loaded 6 cylinder Jetta Wagon may approach the 27k mark, I believe the Jetta 1.8T Wagon starts at $20,350 or thereabouts. Although it lacks AWD, that may not be vital to every buyer. The Jetta is in some ways a more refined feeling vehicle than the OBS (just my opinion). Better quality interior materials, better paint quality and, it offers some items as standard which the OBS can't match. More power (180hp turbo), standard antitheft & keyless entry, standard power sunroof, 4-wheel disk brakes, side airbags, available 5-speed tip-tronic automatic transmission.

I'm still leaning towards a 5-speed OBS because of the balance of what you get for the money. But after driving the Jetta Wagon and a Golf GTI, I can't really fault the VW's either. They are fine cars. It just depends on what you want and what you are willing to pay for.

bluesubie

I've been pretty satisfied with my OEM BF Goodrich Radial T/A's. Even though they have the SUV wannabe raised white letters, I think they are very good in the snow and can handle some occasional hard driving without much protest. Same for the Michelin's on my wife's OB (the snow part anyway).

My friend was looking at the VW with the base engine (or maybe the 1.8T). When she loaded it up with the options she wanted, it approached 27k. That's why she went with the Legacy GT.

Dennis

ateixeira

For the price of a base Jetta 1.8T wagon, you could get a larger Legacy L. Also, you'd be really tempted to chip it (more $) and change the relatively soft suspension (even more $). At least I would.

I like that VWs have character, and the Jetta wagon is attractive and practical. It's just a tad pricey for its size, and reliability is a question mark.

-juice

celeste2

I wonder why this factor is played down in these reviews. Why wouldn't I consider a VW? Probably for the same reason a service manager at a VW dealer wouldn't. My son is in a mechanics program. They visited different dealerships. The service manager go to talking to my son on the side about WRX's, other Subaru's, etc., etc...
He said he loved VW's because they kept his service department busy because they always needed something worked on. He said however that he would never personally want one because of that! Only confirmed what I've heard and read...

bpmcavoy

I am proud owner of 2002 OBS. It has 800 miles on it so far and I'm really enjoying it. However, I notice that the automatic transmission has quite a hitch going from 1st to 2nd gear. I have seen some sort of oblique references to this on other groups, but nothing really direct. From what I gathered this was because the AT is "tighter" than those on other cars, which is actually a good thing.

Now, when I say hitch, I mean that the acceleration is not smooth from 1st to 2nd like it is in just about every other AT I've driven. This is less noticeable when I really punch it, though I'm not doing that too hard as I'm not over the magic 1000 mile mark yet.

So, before I bug the dealership to have them reprogram the AT, I was wondering if this is something many OBS owners have noticed, or if I may have a problem.

ramon

doesn't all ppl who works in their respective car dealerships need to own on of their own car brands? Exceptions are those Ferrari and Austin martin dealers.

paisan

no one I know owns the same cars they sell. Not a good idea, but the amount salesmen get paid I don't blame em. most can't afford what they sell.

-mike

paisan

My XT6 does the same thing 1->2, my dad's 2.2l '97 Legacy L does that, my uncle's '97 OB, my cousin's '00 Outback, etc. etc.

It's just the nature of the beast. Basically they have less torque converter loss which leads to longer life, but harder shifts. Nothing to worry about, eventually you'll get a technique down that will make it a little smoother. Also as it breaks in it will get smoother.

-mike

bpmcavoy

Thanks Mike! Now the goofy grin can return to my face.

-Bryan

ateixeira

I agree - it should get smoother as it breaks in and as it "learns" your driving style (i.e. the ECU adjusts to your type of driving).

Congrats. Saw a white one today and I still think they are quite handsome. I've only seen about 3 on the road, so they still stand out, IMO.

I agree that reviewers don't factor all the stuff that a buyer has to. Like gas mileage, resale value, reliability. They aren't paying for the cars they test, nor are they footing the gas bill. Finally, they don't keep them long enough that reliability even matters much.

-juice

brekke

I was reading a tutorial on shifting and it said to press the accelerator as you let off the clutch. I only do this when starting from a stop, otherwise I let off clutch completely before I touch the gas. Am I wrong, but I thought slipping clutch was unnecessary.

Also, when downshifting, I press clutch, put car in gear, blip throttle, let off clutch. I think I'm supposed to blip in neutral, but I couldn't get the hang of it. My way is easier, but am I doing more harm than good?

rsholland

blip the throttle when downshifting.

Bliping the throttle (in neutral), also referred to as "double-clutching" is a carryover from the old days of stick shift, when there wasn't any syncros. You had to double-clutch in order to avoid grinding gears. Truckers still do it on big rigs, but it's really not necessary on cars with modern manual transmissions.

Bob

ateixeira

If you can match revs, especially on down shifts, you'll help preserve your clutch. My Escort was totalled at 107k miles still on its original clutch.

Rowing up through the gears, it's less important. Anything under 3000rpm isn't going to cause much wear on the clutch anyway.

-juice

brekke

I blip only to eliminate that annoying jerk-slam when downshifting, but I was only concerned that I was being lazy by not double-clutching or at least blipping in neutral.

emulous

I have a 2001 RS with 22k miles and I noticed a severe (feel and hear) groan from the rear diff area when downshifting from fourth to third. In order to prevent this, I double-clutch on down shifts, which seems to work. I never had to do this in my Civic Si. I attribute it to awd and that transmissions for awd are much more complicated than fwd/rwd only transmissiions and the subaru's just doesn't seem to be as smooth/easy to use as my past honda and nissan. I took a long while getting used to the transmission in the Subaru, it works fine and I love the car. just my two cents.

bluesubie

Someone on the i-club wants OBS pictures.

Wanna post yours?

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107648&referrerid=767

Dennis

bluesubie

Not since I switched to Amsoil synthetic gear oil last winter. Whether it's 90F or 32F, I shift smoothly.

I had been thinking of synthetic for a while and last December we had two consecutive weeks of temps in the teens. Every time I got in my car, I had to sit and let it warm up or I couldn't shift.

If you check the i-club, you'll see that this is a hot topic. Mainly because people have different results with the same brand of gear oil. Some people grinding gears, some having problems shifting.
Not me. :-)

Dennis

brekke

Thanks, Dennis. Are you saying you were only having trouble with the shift lever? I was referring to non-smoothness when letting up the clutch. Are we talking about two different things? But I would think the Amsoil would solve my problem as well?

I don't know anything about transmissions to know.

bluesubie

Yes, I was referring to the shift lever itself. When temps fall below freezing, the 75W90 conventional gear oil turns to molasses. Amsoil won't help the clutch itself.

I think what you're experiencing has to do with clutch shudder. In some earlier Forester's, RS's and occasionally in my car, there was a very bad shudder when cold. My problem went away after I got a new clutch for a different reason. Sometimes the car would lurch/shake ahead as you're letting off the clutch. I think a little bit of this though is considered "normal".

Check the UK Impreza Driver's Club FAQ for more info:
http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm#3.5

Dennis

bcohen

Has anyone had any experience towing with the OBS or at least the 2.5L? I'm particularly interested in the 5sp. I'm tired of driving an automatic! I have an older S-10 that I tow our 1200 pound pop-up with, but that won't be towing for much longer. I'm very impressed by the value, versatility, performance, and reliability of the OBS, but I'm concerned about how "real-world" their claim of a 2000 pound tow capacity is. Thanks.

Ben

rsholland

It's 2000 pounds only if your trailer has brakes. If your trailer has no brakes, the tow limit is only 1000 pounds.

Juice has towed my 5'x8' utility trailer with his 5-speed 2.5L Forester, with a load of mulch. He'd be the best one to comment on towing, even though his car is a Forester, and not an OBS.

Bob

ateixeira

My Forester has the Phase I engine (4 lb-ft less torque) and weighs just a tad more than the OBS, but it's also a 5 speed. It pulled what I guess was about 1500 lbs pretty well, just deliberately. If felt like a 140hp Forester, put it that way. Braking distances were also longer, but I always left plenty of space in front of me.

I hauled wood chips, and when I asked for one "scoop" full, I ended up getting 3 cubic yards, a little more than I bargained for. It towed the load fine, not too much clutch slippage, but you do need to rev higher than normal.

I think 1200 lbs is okay, perhaps even without trailer brakes. You're probably going much longer distances that I was, though.

I've heard autos are better suited for towing, and something with rear disc brakes may also help (Forester S, Outback) when it comes time to stop, but odds are your OBS will get the job done, just be careful.

-juice

barresa62

Is that 1500 lbs w/o cat (I mean, dog?). Just razzin' ya! :-)

Stephen

ateixeira

Hadji rode along inside the car with me. I'm glad he was harnessed. After I dropped the trailer off, on the way home, I was hit by a Saturn.

Good news is I had only cosmetic damage (bumper cover and tail light). The Saturn was wasted - hood, 1/4 panel, head lights, turn signal, wheel well, tires, possible frame damage.

It was like a glass car compared to the sturdy Soob.

-juice

bcohen

Thanks guys for your comments. I'm hoping the OBS will only be a secondary tow vehicle and that I can get my wife to buy a Taurus or something as the primary. I'll let you know if I do ever tow with it. Thanks. Good driving.

Ben

paisan

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

-mike

ateixeira

If you like Fords and want to tow, check out the upcoming Mercury Marauder. RWD, 300hp, it should be a great tow vehicle.

-juice

celeste2

My son's teacher in auto mechanics says that Ford circles their problems!!

(if you don't get it, think about the Ford logo)

racheluk

Still reading and enjoying this thread...

I've just passed 2000 miles and had my first oil change. Do you think the genuine Soobie oil filter is the way to go? I had the guys swap mine out for any old oil filter at the oil change place, but i could easily head to the dealer for the genuine article.

I seem to be getting about 25.5 mpg, mostly fwy driving. From full to the moment the fuel light goes on seems to be exactly 14 gallons, and I'd done 360 miles on those 14 gallons of 87 octane fuel - which is very satisfying.

My antenna still sucks at times, but i'm living with it. And my qualms about the brakes are all resolved - it was just a matter of making the transition from the Forester. I love the keyless entry - never had that till now!

I'm very interested in the conversation about the ganz flow to increase power when shifting from a stop into first gear. Once i'm through this next extra busy phase of my life i may turn some attention that way. Anybody have an opinion about why Subaru got rid of the air vent on the hood on this year's model?

best to all,
rachel

ateixeira

The hood scoop is only on the turbo models, which have an intercooler under it. The non-functional ones are gone.

Where do you change your oil? Some filters are not so good, others are fine. There was an oil filter study that circulated, and I recall that Purolators (what Subaru uses, actually) were rated high. Also ask the shop if they use a new crush washer for the drain plug at every change.

-juice

ramon

mine functions. Ppl constantly stare at my car in awe and gawk at the scoops and louvres. So it does function as a visual accoutrement.

ateixeira

I stand corrected! ;-)

-juice

celeste2

You might want to check and be sure it's NOT a Fram!

ateixeira

Maybe it's the free cappuccino at the dealership. You have to keep going back to fix those 13 recalls. ;-)

You have to get used to the frameless doors, which can feel tinny if you close the door with the window down (they rattle). Still, the structure is solid and Subies have aced the toughest crash test in the industry, the IIHS offset test.

-juice

brekke

I think people are put off by the frameless doors and think that makes the whole car a "tin can". Someone panned their new OBS at epinions and ended up trading it in for a V6 Accord. But then his OBS developed squeaks and rattles after a week or two. He's happy with the Accord's creature comforts.

FWIW, the OBS I test drove felt just as quiet and solid as mine.

I guess everything is relative.

ateixeira

Hmm, the Legacy did better than that Accord in the IIHS offset tests, the toughest in the auto industry. The OBS isn't even in the same price range.

This is funny, though. The Accord got 4/4 stars in side impact tests, while the Legacy got 4/5 stars. The Forester got 5/4 stars, also better.

So looks like frameless doors win.

-juice

celeste2

Have you seen the photos of the 2002 OBS that was totalled after the guy only had it a few months? Accident was not his fault, his car flipped and smashed badly, he and his sister (these were old folks, waaay older than me!) were ok except some bruises--the other car was absolutely about torn in two, the people were in the hospital about 4 weeks... some kind of chevy, I think.

Anyway go to the yahoo outback sport club. This was probably 4 to 6 weeks ago. There is an album in the photo section. The pics are a pain to view as they are very large but wait till you see what impact that car took! Nothing like seeing to believe they will withstand alot...

Brekke... you did get the hang of that shifter? Any power launches yet? Just don't be tearin' up that clutch, now... Remember how paranoid you were when you got your car? I sense that you're pretty secure now.

celeste2

yes, they do show everything. Mine was a mess of swirls and we have an I-club meet on Saturday. I did some research and ordered some Klasse All-in-One and Sealer-Glaze. Heard it did wonders for black.

Put it on yesterday, two steps, and it looks like glass. Very hard and reflective. Some people like that buttery soft shine and use wax over the top, but me, I'm not that picky if it just looks smooth and shiny and I'm not looking for more work to do unless I have to. It's synthetic and supposed to last at least 6 months, some say as long as 10, we'll see...

Anyway, it looks like pure sex and you should have seen heads turn when I was out driving today, what an ego trip...

Go to autopia-forums.com and learn alot about different waxes and detailing products. Geez some of those guys are crazy and waxing once a week isn't enough for them. They should be doing this for work and getting paid. Some of the guys on this forum are detailers, though, and know their stuff.

ramon

maybe they are gawking at that hottie behind the wheels? Any browny points?!

lark6

Celeste - you've about sold me. I think I'll give Klasse a shot when I get my black Forester back from the shop. Any product that can make black Subie paint "look like pure sex" has to be worth it.

Ed

ateixeira

Good to hear the little Subie holds up in real world crashes, but I hope that other couple in the Chevy was OK.

Hey, you're making me want to go out and buy some Klasse so my car can look like pure sex! Yowza! :-)

-juice