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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Sounds like Hertz rental.

    -Dave
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    bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    'Got the notice for my 03 LL Bean Outback Wagon today. Do they really have to remove the transmission to do this fix? I hate the thought of that.....
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    xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    Tamara wrote today,

    "Went to the local dealer this morning. The salesman was pretty unwilling to deal with me. He said the best he could do on a 2003, manual transmission, base OB was 3% less than MSRP.

    Ok, List is MSRP is $23570 including freight. So, they were willing to sell this car to you at $22863. Almost $1000 profit. Except I am pretty sure there is a $500 dealer incentive on Outbacks right now. The invoice, including incentive and freight is $20,944. 103% of that is $21572. That's over $600 profit.

    Don't mind me I am rambling. Went with my brother and stopped by a dealer I hadn't noticed. They had leftover 02 OB's with auto and AWP. They said "under 20"...

    - Lou
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I believe the first year the Legacy GT was introduced with the 2.5L engine was back in 1996. However, I'd start with 1997 since the 1996 version required premium fuel and made only 155HP. From 1997, the GT received the 165 HP engine running on regular octane.

    If I recall, the GT got extra features like sunroofs, stiffer suspension, shorter gearing, fog lights and some other perks over the L.

    Check the Edmund's used car section for more specific info.

    Ken
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I don't buy (no pun intended) what the salesman said. You should be able to get a 2003 close to invoice. All 2002 & 2001 OBs came with a rear, rubber cargo tray and cross bars. Do you have a Costco near you? They offer the car for $500 over invoice, which is still a little higher than you should be able to get it for. My advice - e-mail all Subaru dealers within a 60 mile radius and tell them exactly what you want, give them the invoice price and ask them for their best deal.

    Greg
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    xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    That's how many Subaru dealers are in Arkansas!
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    xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    http://www.thecarplace.com/03leggt.htm or for the cut & paste impaired just Click here. :)
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    It's about time someone realized what Subaru is all about. Nuff, said.

    Greg
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I think it's safe to assume that's not the Bob Bowden who coaches FSU's football team!

    I searched around that site and found this excerpt from a 2003 Forester review (won't quote in full, but recognizing fair use exemption):

    "Order the 5-speed manual transmission and you'll get Subaru's Hill Holder, a device that helps keep the car stopped when the clutch in fully depressed but the car is on a slight incline. Didn't Studebaker come up with that? I had a 1959 Studebaker Lark that used the same type of technology and boy did I love that... I digress. Either way, it's a really great idea and sort of points to Subaru's innovativeness and where they're headed as a company."

    It made me wonder: am I the only person who owns one of each?

    Ed
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Subaru dog guard pushes against the windows and floor IIRC.

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ed: yes. ;-)

    Tamara: I do think even the base Outback had cross bars, so I wouldn't trust that salesman.

    -juice
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    They are standard on ALL Outbacks, as is the cargo tray.
    I wouldn't trust that salesman either, that's ~$300 he's going to skim (scam) you for.

    -Dave
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    rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    The CROSSBARS and the RUBBER CARGO MAT are definitely standard. I believe, however, that there is an add-on accessory called the 'cargo tray'.
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
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    tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Hi guys,

    Yes, I even found a 2002 brochure that says the crossbars were standard on all outbacks. It doesn't say about the mat, but we all know it was standard, too.

    On Saturday I emailed many of the other dealers within a half a days drive (as was pointed out, we only have 2 dealers in Arkansas, so I'm talking about people in Oklahoma and Missouri). I haven't heard back from any of them, yet. I am hoping to get a little leverage or something. Although at this point the only reason to buy from the local guy is to save driving 2-3-4 hours, and to keep some sort of good feelings going in case I need to have the car serviced.

    My husband has a business trip in June or July to Gaithersburg, MD (isn't that convenient?), so as a last resort he can buy a car there and drive it back here. It would just be a shame to have to wait for summer....

    Tamara
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Excellent, in that case start shopping at fitzmall.com. Prices are much lower than what you've been quoted. He could drive back, or maybe take the Car Train part of the way and then drive the rest.

    We bought our Legacy there, I'd recommend them in a second.

    -juice
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    tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Hi Juice,

    What's the car train? Where can I find info about it on the web?

    Thanks,

    Tamara
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.amtrak.com/services/index.html

    I thought amtrak ran it, but I can't seem to find it. Anyone more familiar with it? I've had friends take it from DC to Florida. They load the car in the train and it goes with you. It ain't cheap, though, my friend paid $900 or so IIRC.

    Anyone else have more info on this service?

    -juice
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    ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    Bob Bowden loves the Bean as well. Check out this gushing review:

    http://www.thecarplace.com/01bean.htm
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Is picked up just south of DC. I forget the town.

    Bob
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    mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    It runs between Lorton, Va. and Sanford, Fla. with no stops, so unless you want to go all the way to Central Florida, it won't help you get back towards Arkansas.
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    mfsbmfsb Member Posts: 17
    I live in Okla. City and bought my LL Bean from Cable Subaru in OKC. I found them to be cheaper than Travis in Norman. They probably won't be as cheap as Fitzmall though.

    Bill
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    scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    I have a '01 VDC and I'm looking to buy 4 tires. I checked online with tirerack. I looked at Bridgestone's RE950's, Michelin XGTH4, and a host of other tires ranging from $90.00 to $135.00 per tire. I notice that there is a tire brand called Kumho with the ECSTA Hp4716. Their price is $53.00 per tire. Who can explain why this tire is less then 1/2 the price with reviews that state it is an excellent tire? Can anyone shed any light on this brand of tire? Thanks.
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    cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    They are a Korean brand trying to break bigtime into the US market. Some of their products have been very favorably reviewed by various sources and some of them stink like any tire manufacturer with an extensive range. You pay premium prices for Michelins name. I had the XGT H4 on my Legacy GT. They were far better than the stock Bridgestone Potenza RE92 but from what i've read the RE950 is better still.
    Some of the cheaper brands may not wear as well or their performance may degrade more quickly with wear but some are a real bargain.
    Another brand trying to get into the market again with usually great reviews is Sumitomo which is owned by Dunlop.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They make great auto-x tires Victorracer V700s, for the most part their other tires are not very good at all, IMHO and from what I've seen.

    I'd go for Dunlop Sport A2s or SP5000s for the VDC over the others, they are a good mix of quality and price.

    -mike
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I have them and I am very happy with their performance. They seem to be wearing well also. I typically keep them at 35 PSI, although they are smoother at around 33. Very quiet when new and get a little noisier as they wear, but, nothing that is bothersome. I am leaning towards a set for my Sienna also.

    Greg
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    matty3matty3 Member Posts: 5
    I have a 1997 Legacy GT wagon that is in need of it 60,000 mile tune-up. Since price is definitely an issue, I am curious as to what essential checks and adjustments need to be made at this time. I know that the plugs need to be replaced, but other than that, my knowledge is limited to the fact that valet parking costs $10. If anyone can tell me what is essential, I would appreciate it. I just don't want to have to pay for things that can wait to be addressed until they break since, as I said, I have a limited budget at this time. Thanks for any help!!
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    originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Got em. Love em.

    bit
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    60k is the first major, essential service. This is not the time to cut corners. I would do at least all of the following:

    oil + filter
    air filter
    fuel filter
    O2 sensor
    PCV Valve
    spark plugs
    plug wires (at least inspect them)
    coolant flush/refill
    bleed brakes
    ATF or Gear Oil change
    Differential oil change
    Tire rotation
    Consider an alignment if tire wear uneven

    I think that just about covers it. I'm at 49k miles so I'm getting ready to do all of the above myself.

    -juice
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Here is the data since Nov 18:
    20
    20.8
    19.3
    20.7
    Oil change
    20
    19.6
    19
    21
    New K&N air filter
    19.6
    New head gasket, plugs, fluids, reset ECU, brakes
    20.1
    22
    Rotate, balance tires. Fix flat
    21.5

    That's it. In god we trust, all others need data.

    Greg
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    dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    With 57,800 miles and counting, I have a few questions about the 60k service:

    1. if I drive less that 1k miles/month, should I have had the service done after 5 years even if I had less than 60k miles on the odometer. Since my car is now 71 months old and was running fine last year, I didn't have the service done at that time. I have always replaced the oil, coolant and air filter on time intervals rather than mileage.

    2. why is it essential to replace the spark plugs (or the fuel filter, PCV valve and O2 sensor for that matter) if the car isn't running roughly, mileage hasn't declined, etc.

    3. how essential is it to bleed the brakes? I'm under the impression that other car manufacturers don't require this service. In fact, a service technician at my dealership told me that it wasn't necessary. Was he off target?

    4. The owner's manual says to inspect the diffential oil (and I believe the gear oil) at 60k. Why change it?

    5. Aren't belts (not timing for 2.5 engine) listed for replacement at 60k?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1. Yes, I'd do it sooner if your mileage pace is slower than normal.

    2. You can wait for something to fail, or do preventative maintenance. You just might get lucky and all those parts will last forever, then again Murphy's Law says something will fail when you're 1000 miles from home in heavy rain in the middle of nowhere.

    3. There will be some moisture in the lines, and that'll make the pedal feel more and more spongy.

    4. If you're going to inspect the oil, you've done 90% of the work. It's a bear to get the plugs out, they are sealed with some sort of epoxy. Once they are removed, a quart of gear oil will cost you a buck or two for conventional 75w90. $8 or so for synthetic. You're not saving any money at all by skipping this service.

    5. Belts and hoses might be added to that list, especially if you're hitting 60k after 5 years. Visually inspect them to look for fraying, drying, cracking, etc, and then decide. I'd do them at 90k if you skip them now, though.

    That's my take on each situation, any how. Just my 2 cents' worth.

    -juice
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    ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    Either someone posted this or I read it on Consumer Reports, but it was recommended that on a scheduled maintenance check (like 60K), to copy the page out of the owner's manual saying what needs to be done and take that to the dealer who will be doing the service. Otherwise, the dealer will throw in a bunch of stuff that they "recommend" but that isn't really necessary.

    All this presumes, of course, that you don't have complete faith in the person doing your service (like me). The best option is to simply have a service shop that you are sure won't screw you.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd do that for 15k, 30k, and 45k, but 60k is the first major service where you can replace all the wear and tear items. So I'd go ahead and let the dealer add an item or two without making too much noise.

    -juice
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    dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    Do spark plugs, PCV valves, O2 sensors, fuel filters actually fail, causing the car to become inoperative, or will the engine begin to run rougher, mileage decrease, etc. if they are not performing as intended?
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    tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Hi All,

    As we continue to ponder which Outback to purchase, I have a question about the standard security system. How does it work? I know you push a button on the FOB, but beyond that - does an alarm sound if a cat jumps on the car? Or does someone actually have to break a window for it to go off?

    Also, is this one of those systems that honks when you set it and unset it? Is there a way to turn that off - so that it only flashes the lights but doesn't honk?

    Do all the 2002s come with this standard security system, or was that new on 2003 cars. If these used cars (that we are considering) that are missing the crossbars and rubber mat are also missing the security system, would it be fairly easy to turn it back on again?

    Thanks,

    Tamara
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they'd cause the engine to run rough, even perhaps set off a CEL and ODB2 could even force the engine to shut down if emissions go through the roof. I've seen engines cut off due to a simple vacuum hose being disconnected.

    Any how, the point is not to push your luck to find that out.

    -juice
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Tamara-
    If the security system is missing, then it is not installed. Since it is not installed, I would recommend going aftermarket [with the salesman you're dealing with], cheaper.
    Look into the Clifford system. I had them in Al Gator and still have it in Ginger [Pebbles will have it soon].
    Reason I like Clifford is that you could arm in normal and silent mode [one button] as well as putting system in and out of valet from the fob.
    Passive Alarm locks and arms within 30sec. should you forget to arm after closing the doors.
    It can be programmed to open garage door too.
    Anyway, I find the OEM kind of a crude, especially Passive Arming. You first must manually lock the doors before closing it in order to activate the Passive... duh?
    As for silent arm, yes it does that ... after some rituals to be performed which I forget.
    Will the cat jumping on the car set the alarm off? No, unless it fell from the roof (house) onto the car maybe. Actually, I've not tested if they come with shock sensors.

    -Dave
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    dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    You're probably right. I know some other folks who post on this board have had some serious problems with their Subaru's, but having had no problems in six years, I've been lulled into a sense of complacency. I hate the idea of paying for unnecessary work, but it's off to the dealership in a couple of months. I've got a couple hundred of the new Subaru bucks which should lessen the pain, but I was saving them for my next car! (we used $3100 in Subaru points when we bought our Forester last summer.

    Thanks for the advise.
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    bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    What are Subaru bucks?

    Where do you get them?

    Thanks
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Jon-
    try heading over here:
    https://www.ChaseCreditCard.com/Templates/Subaru2/Subaru-Splash-1- .asp?target=Subaru2&creative=10305

    -Dave
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    nine51nine51 Member Posts: 77
    Those things are a great idea. I got my Subaru card a month ago (missed the Christmas season) and I am using it instead of my other cards. I hope to get close to the $500 / year maximum so I can get $2K off on a new Sube in 4 years. The college my son attends allows payment for tuition, room and board with a credit card. That should rack up the Sube Bucks! I can let the money stay in the savings account for another month, and get the 3% Subaru credit.

    There are also several organizations that partner with Subaru, and offer the benifit of buying a Subaru at invoice if you are a member of that organization.
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    scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    I'd like to thank everyone who contributed the information on the tire purchase for my 2001 VDC. You guys have been a big help.
    Scarwaf.
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    ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    Changing the security system from a honk/flash to just a flash is a simple operation. I lived in a townhouse when I bought my Outback, so I went to a large parking lot in a shopping area nearby to "play" with the security system to see just what it would do. I'd need the instructions to remember what to do to make the change (but then I have to look at the instructions to remember how to change the setting on radio stations too since I do it so rarely ..lol)
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    With the system disarmed and the doors unlocked, press the red and blue buttons together for 2 secs to toggle the honk/flash setting. And if you're prone to forgetting like me, the instructions are on the back of the remote....

    Craig
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    warpaswarpas Member Posts: 8
    Been lurking and learning here, thanks. I'm looking at a 2001 VDC with 29k miles. The dealer is now at $23,000. Looks to be very clean in and out. Does this sound fair? What changes have been made since this model year. Any advice/feedback greatly appreciated.
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    ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    There haven't been any major changes to the VDC since its introduction in 2001. Some that I can think of are the additions of an "off" switch for the VDC system, the addition of the On Star System, and the addition of a 6 CD in-dash changer (and the loss of the cassette deck).

    $23K doesn't sound too bad to me, but I haven't ever seen any used VDC's for sale. The only one's I've seen were leftover 2002 models, one of which went for around $25K and change on Fitzmall.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $23k seems fair given the miles. Not a steal, but definitely a good deal.

    The 2002 leftover at fitzmall.com went for $25,571, so technically I would consider that a better deal, though it's probably come and gone by now.

    -juice
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    fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    The electrodes on spark plugs are consumed with time, increasing the size of the gap. They are a wearout item and it is best to change them before the begin to foul.

    Brake fluid is hydroscopic. The absorbed water not only changes brake feel, but is also highly corrosive to lines and caliper piston seals. Eventually the calipers either leak or stick, wiping out your brake pads and rotors in short order.

    I have never replaced an O2 sensor. While they may degrade with time, I would think their operation is more digital - they either work or fail. Usually most cars go to their graves with the original still in place.

    Steve
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Brake fluid is hydroscopic.

    True - for most (DOT #3,DOT4, etc.) brake fluids.

    DOT #5 is NOT hygroscopic! It is silicone based.

    tidester, host
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