Subaru Legacy/Outback

dcab

Thanks for the input on the spark plugs and brake fluid.

What's your opinion on changing out the fuel filter at 60k? I've never changed mine because I figured that if there was any material trapped in the filter the engine would run rougher, mileage would decrease etc.

D

fibber2

I stand corrected!

But IIRC, (and I am hoping not to have to eat crow a second time in as many posts!), DOT-5 is not common as OEM fluid????

Steve

fibber2

The fuel filter is fairly inexpensive and pretty easy to get to. Again, as a filter medium that cannot be cleaned (would require back flushing to do so), it will eventually clog. There have also been report that they eventually punch thru and no longer filter! Fine metal particles can tear holes, especially under the force of 30-40psi fuel pumps.

Also, some OEM filters have a sort of water separator and can hold a few ounces of garbage fluid/crud at the bottom. Eventually that head space is used up. I think 60k miles is more than enough use for that component!

Steve

ateixeira

The fuel filter is easily accessible and pretty easy to change. I have a pic if you're going to do this and want some help.

-juice

tamara6

Hi all,

A friend here says they nearly bought a Forester but then the thought of the dealer going out of business and leaving them stuck turned them off. They ended up with a Toyota minivan.

I much prefer the Outback to the CR-V (or other options). But I, too, don't want to get stuck. So just how different are Subarus? Are they a tough car to fix? I realize a new car shouldn't break down, but what about when the car is 5 years old? Or what about one of the regular check-ups that it needs? The next closest dealer is 2 hours away. Could somebody else perform the recommended services instead?

Thanks,

Tamara

hashman

I'm not sure if the warranty covers hauling your vehicle to the nearest dealership for service. I would think not...it may pay to have AAA or other auto club membership. That would be a question to the dealership. My 00' OB, has had work done at misc. garages without problems...once had to wait longer for OEM parts...but other facilities worked fine. There's enough Subies around that I havn't found garage that wouldn't work on one...in fact I get complements on what a neat machine to have. Good luck! I have the red...love it.

tidester

DOT-5 is not common as OEM fluid????

Agreed!

tidester, host

kens

I've spoken to several independent mechanics and they all say that Subarus are relatively easy vehicles to work with. The overall layout of the vehicle makes sense so it shouldn't cause any experienced mechanic problems.

I've even heard that it's the rally heritage of Subarus that also lend to it's easy to access layout. In the rally, you need to be able to access everything *quickly*. I think some of that trickles down into our everyday cars too.

Also, I do some of my own maintenance and I also feel that it's easier to work with Subarus compared to some other makes.

Ken

c_hunter

The only thing I can add is that it's been a heck of a lot easier to maintain my Subarus than it was to maintain previous Hondas I owned. Even an oil change on a Honda was a major hassle -- tight engine compartments, and really cruel placement of the oil filter. Extra ground clearance on the Subes is nice too -- I don't even use ramps for the Forester or Outback, though I am thinking I may need them for the WRX.

Craig

bravadajon

I have the 03 LL Bean Wagon with the H6. I have used the 93 octane since day 1. I know...people have advised me that I could use the lower octanes but I would sacrifice some hp. Premium gas is now $1.77 cents/gallon in St. Louis. With the S. American and Iraq situations....I expect to see $2.00/gallon prices soon.

So I am considering the switch to the lower octane gas. How low can I go....89 octane....87 octane. I hate to do this to my peppy H6, but this is getting expensive. I don't want to listen to engine knock.

I am sure glad I got rid of my 2002 Bravada that got 15 mpg in the city, although that I6 engine used 87 octane. My Subie has been getting 23-24 mpg city.

I noticed Honda is advertising their H2 fuel cell car.

I would drive a hybrid if everyone else did....but I don't want to get run over by a Lincoln Navigator.

This current episode in our history may be the turning point for the big SUV...no one will be able to pay for gas.

Thanks for listening to me. Your opinion?

bravadajon

I posted the same sentiments at the GM Triplet site...I am sure
I will here about this.

I really do think this is a turning point for the SUV market.

stever

Check out the new Grab Bag poll on the main Town Hall page if you haven't already. It sounds like you submitted the poll question!

Steve, Host

jay_24

I don't think higher gas prices will end SUVs. It might slow sales. Consider this. I have a 98 plymouth grand voyager and 3 kids (oldest is 5). 3 car seats/booster seats will not all fit on one bench seat. Even the 'three person' seat is too narrow. The seat measures 48" across. The Chevy Trailbalazer seat measures 54". Probably enough to fit three across. A Tahoe has even more room.

Why need three across? Try buckling a kid in back in that third row on a daily basis. It stinks.

So that SUV has advantages over even mini-vans just for people moving. Also the gas milage isn't that different from the vans. our van currently gets about 18mpg mixed highway/city.

Now if subaru added another 3 or 4 inches of width it would be even better! subie back seat measures 51 inches.

--jay

ncvol

I remember getting all worried about gas prices for the first Gulf War, and as I recall, not much happened beyond an initial spike by profiteering gas stations.

ateixeira

Pop the hood of any Subie - all the fluids are clearly marked in bright yellow. Access is tight for some things (like spark plugs) but it's not rocket science. I managed the 30k service without a manual.

There are about a million 1995 and newer Subies on the road, so you are not alone. Stick with us and we'll even point you to wholesalers so you (or your mechanic) can get parts cheap.

The H6 makes 208hp on 87 octane, vs. 212hp on 93 octane (at sea level). So no big deal if you use regular. Most people cannot feel a 4hp change.

-juice

schiza

Purchased my ll Bean 3 weeks ago. It has stalled 3 times at red lights since new. It starts up no problem. Taking it in for service in 2 weeks. It seems to idle fine. We use super gas. Has anyone else experienced this or have a solution.

ateixeira

Just a guess, but maybe there's water in the fuel lines? Try a bottle of DryGas.

-juice

c_hunter

I would also wonder about the gas, or having some water in the tank (common problem in winter).

Can you give us more details on the stalling? Does it happen right after you stop, while idling after the stop, or when you hit the gas to go?

Craig

schiza

It happens after I stop at a light, it idles for a few seconds before it happens. It starts up no problem. There is no hesitation what so ever when accelerating from a stop. thanks

c_hunter

That's a tough one. Two things come to mind:

1) When you stop, fuel sloshes in the fuel tank. It may be possible that this aggravates a problem, either contaminants in the tank or a problem in the fuel delivery system (pump, etc). Has your tank been low when the stalling happens, per chance?

2) When you slow down, an idle speed adjuster kicks in to keep the engine from stalling. Perhaps this is not working correctly. If this were the case, you could also reproduce the problem by gently revving the engine and letting off the gas (while in Park or Neutral).

Let me ask this -- is the engine fully warmed up when the stalling happens, or cold? If warmed up, have you been driving for a really long time?

Craig

tamara6

Hi all,

I finally found a nearby dealer willing to take just $160 over invoice. The only problem is that I was figuring invoice to be $20909 + $525 = $21434. Minus $500 cash to dealer = $20934. But this saleswoman says that their actual invoice is $21709 (including freight and holdback), and she could let me have it for $160 over that ($21869). The problem is that this is over what we had decided the maximum we could spend is. So I guess a new OB is just not in our future.

Sigh.

Tamara

tamara6

I've had a problem like this almost from the beginning with my Mazda. The guy at the Mazda place says it is dirty fuel injectors. Could this be your problem, too?

Tamara

schizas

The tank has gas at least 1/2 tank, when it happens. I have revved and in park and it didn't stall. Maybe it's some contaminants in the gas. The service rep told me they might have to re program the computer or something to that effect. The car seems to run well and smooth, except the rare occasion it stalls. thanks

tamara6

I've had a problem like this almost from the beginning with my Mazda. The guy at the Mazda place says it is dirty fuel injectors. Could this be your problem, too?

Tamara

c_hunter

Edmunds invoice is accurate, and I would not be surprised if the sales person had the wrong numbers (or was pretending you were wrong). They try to act dumb sometimes, as if you have wrong info. So, make sure you're both on the same page. You should be able to get an Outback for the price you want, perhaps $200-300 over invoice tops.

Craig

c_hunter

Well, it seems random to me, which points to fuel contamination. It can take several tankfuls to resolve problems like that. Try switching to a different gas station for a while and see if it helps while you wait the 2 weeks for your appt.

Sorry you are having this problem. I have had my LL bean for over a year now, with 20,000 miles, and it has been flawless. Really wonderful car.

Craig

lucien2

We should plan a weekend to do the 60k together; I just crossed that mark, although I was a little late on my 30k so I suppose I could wait for better weather...

jfl

Loosh, remember that it doesn't have to be completed in one day. I've spread mine out over 5k. Started with plugs and tranny/diff fluids, will be finishing with fuel/air filters and coolant.

My most difficult decision is brake fluid. The original pads still have quite a bit of life remaining. Should I flush and bleed the system now or wait until I change the pads?

Jim

lucien2

DOT4 about 10k ago in anticipation of some track time this season. Maybe. I won't do it again until I upgrade rotors to WRX spec.

lfdal

Saw your earlier post asking about the dog guards.....
I just put the Subaru dog guard in my wife's 03 Outback wagon this morning. She gets to keep the draw shade, which is good. The gate is a press fit between to lower and upper rear side window trim pieces. Once you get it in place, there are adjustment bolts on both sides with a round knurled nut that you adjust until it stays in place. They include a little post that slides into a hole in the nut to give you better leverage for tightening it, although it really didn't take any pressure to tighten it by hand. It's well made and we like it because it doesn't press on the floor ( I didn't want to have to remove it to get the rubber tray out) nor does it press into the headliner, which I really wanted to avoid as most grates I've seen tend to leave marks after they've been in for a while. The downside - its not cheap.

mrk610

I know this really shouldn't be in this forum .Just got back from a week sking up at Elk mountain . Its above Scranton in Northern PA. 1st time to stay up there all week . Got a good deal on a house in South Gibson. 120 year old farm house 5 brms 2 bths good for the 10 of us that went. Got up there last sunday nite very cold . Had a fun drive up in the snow, we got about 5" there that nite . Outback did great keep up with my friends tahoe at 50mph in the snow. I felt very secure at that speed outback never slipped once . Got up there to a frozen house . Heating oil tank empty ,was able to get service guy to come out and give us some oil . Took us about 3 hours to defrost the pipes and water pump. I loved driving the outback on the mountain roads ,it was so secure and felt like it was glued to the road. I still have the oem tires ,really didn't feel all that bad . I did have to take a side rip to the Emergency room on thurs . I hit a icy patch on one of the slopes and knocked my self out for about 4-5mins . I was discharged from the er with a level 2 concussion . I went sking the next day and the 1st slope I went down was the one that got the best of me the day before.Funny thing is the name of the slope was kick-a-poo .During my driving I noticed a burning smell when I stopped the car . One time it was the brakes I know because I was really using them on the moutain roads. The other times I think it was just the awd system ,I hope this is normal. I have read other posts about this smell. Still waiting for the dealer to call to schedule my car for the tranny recall, and the tensioner replace . Sorry again for the long post .

Mike k

fibber2

The post is fine - good to hear from you! Hope you are fully recovered.

I got the strong burning smell again this morning, and I wasn't doing anything unusual. Probably should list it as a complaint when I go in for the tranny recall.

Steve

c_hunter

Ouch, that must have been some wipeout! Hope you feel better. I once did a faceplant on a mogul at high speed, and came out with a minor concussion and bruised ribs. Was knocked out for a few seconds. If it wasn't for my goggles (which were destroyed) I probably would have broken my nose.

Best part was the little kid who skied up to me and asked "you OK mister?" and then proceeded to blast down the moguls better than me...

Craig

stever

I bought a used rental ski helmet for ~$35 and it's saved my bacon at least once on a "mousetrap" fall (I trying to learn to snowboard). The amazing thing is how comfortable and warm it is - highly recommended.

Steve, Host
(7 weeks away from picking up my Outback)

smo615

The Car Connection said today that the newly designed '04 Legacy will come with a 350 hp bi turbo. But it might run $45,000. Very expensive for a Subaru, too bad they will not be offering something in the 250 hp range that will be affordable to many more of us.

Also too bad that the turbo Forester will come with the WRX 2.0 instead of the 2.5, so it would have better low end torgue. I never understand why car companies make the decisions they do. They alway seem to just miss the mark.

ateixeira

We had a 626 that was stalling - it turned out to be a dirty throttle body. It also performed a LOT better after that service, so it may be worth a try.

Loosh: start collecting the parts you'll need. Maybe mail order some, or pick them up at NAPA or where ever you usually go. Get an air filter, oil filter, oil, gear oil, spark plugs, etc. Maybe on the 17th, is that a holiday for you too?

Wow, Mike, you were out skiing the day after you got a concussion?

Got a link to that Car Connection article? Everything I've read implies the Forester will get a 2.5l turbo. Also, the base Legacy won't have 350hp, that would only be the STi.

-juice

cptplt

According to other sources that is the STi version which may have a H6 turbo, there will be a slightly more vanilla version with mid 200hp with a variant of the Impreza STi's 4 banger 2.5 turbo

mrk610

Yep getting a helmet is next step. The funny part is that I have no marks on my head from the hit or bruising anywere alse . Ohh well just glad I can still enjoy my subie. I took my car in for the tranny recall, and to have my tensioner replaced . I hope this will take care of my cold engine knock . Had a talk with the district service rep and he said they have no documented cases of piston slap on the phase 2 2.5 l engine . I told him he should log on to here . He says I have and it is just a couple of unhappy car owners. I started to disagree but decided to keep my mouth shut . He also said that SOA has a new policy were they will not reimburse dealers for loaners or rental cars . Its up to the dealer to provide that service . I was lucking to get a loaner from my dealer ,but he said it is the last time . Funny thing is that the other side of the service center is chevy/gmc/jeep. They have 4 loaner cars . My service center is subaru and volkswagan . No loaner cars .I'll let you guys know if the fix helps my noise .

Mike k

warpas

Just bought a 2001 VDC with about 30K. Idles pretty rough when stopped. I'm taking her to the dealer, but anyone else experience this? What was the fix?

ateixeira

Try test driving another one to see if it feels significantly different. Boxers do tend to growl a bit, even have that characteristic at idle.

-juice

cosmookie

The cd player in my 00' OB Ltd wagon has died, and I want to put in a new head unit.
1) Does anyone have instructions or comments about removing the stock radio?
2) For an easier install, is there a wiring harness available so that I can use the existing stock harness?
3) The din opening looks very large. Is additional trim needed to install say an Alpine or Pioneer radio? I will miss the weather band, but want to add MP3 and XM options.

Thanks...Bill

lucien2

they send you virtually fool proof instructions and a custom wiring harness that plugs right in.

ateixeira

If you want to keep a stock look, buy a take-out WRX radio. They have a cassette plus 6CDs in dash, and the harness plugs right in. I've installed two of them myself, one in a Forester and another in a 2002 Legacy L.

The Forester was cake, the Legacy a bit harder, but I'd still only rank the difficulty about a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 (Forester's was about a 3).

I think bit had tips on-line, or scanned in, those helped me. You basically remove the shifter surround, then the radio surround. The radio has one harness and the antennae that plugs right in.

That unit is a double-DIN, so you lose the storage compartment below a single-DIN radio. No big deal, it looks custom and says "Subaru" right on the front.

I bought each for $250, though I've heard prices have come down further. Considering they'll add to the resale value, it's a worthwhile investment.

-juice

originalbitman

http://bitman.com/soobinstall/

Juice - did you get the plood?

bit

ateixeira

Yeah, got it and wanted to install it Sunday, but the wife ran late and I was watching the kids. I hope to do it soon, maybe this weekend, or on the 17th at the latest (that's a holiday for me).

-juice

web3

Does anyone know what parts of the leather interior are really leather. The manual says seats but if I am not mistaken it is the seating surface only. I'm not sure about the arm rests etc. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

c_hunter

Certainly not the armrests, and not the sides or backs of the seats. The headrests have leather wrapping around the front and back, but the sides appear to be man-made. I think the only real leather is on the seat surfaces that come into contact with people! I guess the wheel and shifter knob are leather too, on some models.

Craig

mortpeaberry

get yourself an iPod (5, 10, 20GB) I have a 10 GB. If your cassette works, you have a factory look, if not get a head unit with an aux input. people have spent $300 for a disc changer and that holds maybe 100 songs. The iPod ROCKS! (and it works with PCs now, too) it takes 10 minutes to load 1700 songs into it, with different playlists - you can search by song, artist, album, genre. The only problem is no one has come up with a good car cradle (yet)
Peace
-steve-V

c_hunter

When warmed up, the H6 in the Bean and VDC is all but silent and so smooth it's nearly imperceptable (a little noisier when cold). If it is idling roughly, something is definitely wrong. I would have the dealer look at it.

Craig

c_hunter

Several companies make double-DIN aftermarket radios that will fit right into the Subaru opening without a face plate. You could also install a single-DIN radio on the top and put another CD-cubby or covered storage bin on the bottom, with no face plate required. I imagine those cubby/bin parts would only be a few bucks from the dealer. The question is whether or not you can find a suitable single-DIN or double-DIN MP3/XM radio.

Craig