Subaru Legacy/Outback

toboggan

The Blizzaks have 5 winter seasons in Minnesota (Twin Cities area). They have only accumulated about 25,000 miles so far. This year, since I'm now retired, they might accumulate 3,000 miles. Of course, the multi-cell grippy part has worn off by now.

MNSteve - 2" of snow, 30 degrees all day

sebberry

What is the deepest anyone has tried their Outback in?

I am picturing driving from a bare garage out onto a driveway covered with snow. 6 Inches? more?

ladywclass

I'm not sure how deep I've driven through in snow ... but the first year I was here (first year I had the Outback) we had 78 inches of snow from the end of October til the end of December ... there were days I went out at the apartment and went through at least 8-10" (and I really think more in places) ... never had any problems ...

ateixeira

Full-size Alloy spare, thank you, I stand corrected! :-)

I've driven in about 12" of snow in my Forester, no problem. It packs down quickly. I drove on more than two feet of snow, pre-packed, last winter.

-juice

ozman62

My opinion.. The amount of snow any vehicle can navigate is going to vary tremendously depending on the composition of the snow, and the available traction at the base. Obviously, light, fluffy snow would be much easier for any vehicle to pass over (through), in fact, a decent 4 wheel or AWD vehicle could probably drive through snow of this nature at depths much greater than the vehicles' available clearance assuming good traction conditions. Obviously, the reverse is also true; you're not going to get far in heavy wet snow once the snow depth exceeds the vehicles' clearance. Am I overstating the obvious?
Later, Owen

jb_shin

I just read an article in "evo" magazine, (puts US magazines to shame) and it praised the driving dynamics, and the interior ergonomics, and the quality. They felt that it would compare favorably to the German trio. The test car was an H-6 with slush box. I have to admit, though, the exterior looks something like a slightly face-lifted Altima. Still, I think I found my wife's new car.

c_hunter

10" with my LL Bean, no problem. I was making first tracks too, which was cool.

If it got a lot deeper than 15" I'd worry about snow packing into the radiator opening, but otherwise the car would probably be OK.

Craig

ateixeira

Yeah, in my case it was powdery snow. Packed, hard, or wet snow is another story. You would basically high center once you exceeded your ground clearance.

I rarely drive on untouched snow, however.

-juice

paisan

With my SVX I drove up my aunt's driveway in about 3' of powder, the snow just came over the hood and roof and I plowed through it. Last winter when we had a ton of snow here in nyc, I put the SVX through about 1.5-2' of wet snow.

And here are some pics from our last 48hrs of Tri-state drive:





More pics at http://Isuzu-suvs.com/events

-mike

ateixeira

Funny thing is if it snows during a Subaru meet, more people show up! :-)

-juice

nygreg

Drove my 01 OB up my inclined driveway and through hilly and twisty roads fully loaded with family during the height of last year's Christmas storm (12+ inches at time) with all season tires. Really wanted to get them to the train. jk

Greg

ateixeira

"We'll have to stay a couple of extra days."

"NO. I'll go buy a new Subaru and be right back..." ;-)

-juice

subaru_team

funny. I never thought about that. I think it's something that Marketing should consider!

Patti

ateixeira

Yeah, free delivery. And maybe a $500 quick "in-law" rebate. ;-)

-juice (who gets along just fine with his in-laws)

otis123

ah, your significant other reads town hall, too!

lol!

Ralph

nygreg

because Juice drives 2 Subarus there are no extended stays for in-laws, thus preserving the "peace".

Greg

amsbear

You've just got all these great marketing ideas!!!

First with Dame Edna as spokes model for BMW and now this

Keep up the good work.

Alan
98 OBW Ltd

amsbear

I still can't look at a new BMW without that image popping in my mind and a good grin on my face.

I imagine that others here experience the same. That jpeg should be bookmarked here.

Alan
98 OBW Ltd

rsholland

Now that I had a chance to see and study these cars in person, I don't mind the new look so much. Still not wild about the Z3 as a complete visual package. There things I like about it, but it all doesn't come together for me as a cohesive unit. I'm really quite fond of the Dame Edna 5-series.

Bob

trautmak

I am thinking of buying a used '03 Legacy GT Wagon or Outback Limited Wagon (automatic transmission). I like the leather interior and the side airbags both have. I see that the '03 Legacy GT has many changes such as VTD, but I don't really know what that means.

I'd like to hear people's comments / advice that might help me make the decision. I live in New York City and travel 100 miles upstate every weekend (25000 miles a year). We often take trips in the car with our teenage daughter. I am used to driving old Volvo station wagons and have had it with their high maintenance, but like the roominess, solid feel, and leather interior.

Neighbors bought from a dealer in Orangeburg, NY, Bill Kolb Jr. He posts on the internet a large inventory and listed a GT with 13000 miles for about $21000. He listed a regular (not Limited) Outback with 11000 miles for about $19000. I have never bought from a dealer before and thus don't know how reasonable these prices are. I assume one pays less than the asking price. I have checked the Edmunds TMV dealer prices and they seem quite a bit lower than all asking prices I have seen-- but are they what I should really pay? If I had more time, I would try to buy it privately, but I need a car pretty soon.

Thanks for you help!

rsholland

VTD stands for variable torque distribution. It comes on Legacy GT automatics, WRX automatics and Outback H-6s with VDC. The long and short of it means, in default mode, the front-to-rear torque distribution is normally 45/55, whereas the other Subaru automatics are more biased towards front-wheel drive with a default torque distribution of around 90/10, front-to-rear.

In either case all the wheels are getting power to the wheels all the time. VTD equipped models, with their slight rearward power bias tend to be a bit sportier to drive, as rear wheel drive is often preferred by driving enthusiasts.

Regardless of which you chose, I'm sure you will be happy.

Bob

pathtomax

Hello,

My trusty Outback is now around 32k miles so I have to decide on the extended warranty. I was quoted First Extended Warranty Service from my dealer. I drive OVER 24k/ yr so they offered me:
3yr/ 100k miles: $1,400

I questioned it not being Subaru and he offered me the Subaru warranty for the same price. They informed me that the First Extended Service was offered at more dealerships/ shops.

I welcome all comments!

-Waiting for snow in NH!

ateixeira

Yeah Greg, actually we can leave in any weather, or lend them a car so they can leave, LOL!

It actually has snowed twice while we visited them in CT.

Bob: you mean Z4, the new one, right? That's actually OK to me. The 7 is hideous, the 5 only slightly better:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p47f97fefc9e77d1d861d- - 75e9af728e14/fc64cc8c.jpg

Extended warranties: the rule of thumb is to get one from the manufacturer. Others are basically just insurance policies, and if the company goes under they are worthless. There is a discussion thread here on Edmunds about that.

Go for that used GT! Heated leather, sporty suspension tuning, the best AWD Subaru has to offer, plus SportShift manual controls for the tranny. $21k is not bad because those run $24k or more when new.

-juice

toboggan

16" of fresh snow from garage about 300' to road. Had to make several attempts to get through the end of the driveway where the snow plow had piled up snow. Had ( and still have) Blizzak WS-15 snow tires installed from November to March/April.

Went through at least 1.5' of fresh snow in Montana on a back road short cut from I-90 to Bridger Bowl ski area several years ago.

Love the Subie in the snow!!!!! Hate when slow-pokes are blocking the road.

MNSteve - 15 degrees tonight - skiing Friday

squeezedlemon

My Subaru Outback has developed a front differential oil leak from what appears to be the ATF vent. My trusted corner mechanic noticed no transmission problems nor obvious mixing of diff oil and ATF. The dealer suggested that the oil was leaking into a void space between the back-to-back seals and exiting out the ATF vent. Both noted that the trans case was siliconed an indication that previous work had been done and yet I have not noticed any transmission problems.. Subaru said the back to back seals must be replaced and that $1000 would solve my problem. The transmission specialists I've talked to said that was merely a band aid approach, that the oil is likely mixing with ATF and that the problem was likely transmission related and considering the 129 K miles on it the only
> viable option was to re-build the transmission. My dilemma is that the transmission seems sound i.e no slipping and how could I justify such a costly repair and yet the dealer has failed to explain where the pressure is coming from to push the diff oil out the ATF vent without mixing. Does the Dealer's explanation seem plausible and have you seen anything like it before? Sorry but I am not technically savvy when it comes to autos and would appreciate any lay person explanation if you are able to understand my description. I have a parts diagram if that would help.
>
>I realize that its a gamble with my cars estimated value at $3K for a private sale. What chance would you give me for not developing a transmission problem if I go ahead with the dealer's recommendation? I live in the city and commute to work yet I try to go easy on the acceleration and breaking. Possibly 8 or 9 thousand miles out of the 12K that I put on the car since purchasing it 2 years ago are highway miles. The only other repairs have been some front end body work/realignment and replacing engine oil gaskets.

An on-line buddy with family connections to an out-of-state subaru dealership wrote:
 
"If it is leaking higher than halfway up the case won't
be leaking from the top. Those things are only filled
halfway with fluid. If the fluid is leaking from the
top tell him to look up that it is not the
differential. It is also impossible for the
differential fluid to come in contact with the trans
fluid as they are 2 separate items. He is most likely
losing the fluid through a shaft seal not a big deal
like 200 bucks takes about 2 1/2 hours and part is
like 25-40 dollars."
 
What's your opinion about that possibility? Subaru is claiming that it will take them 6 or more hours to replace the back to back seal. I haven't noticed the leak within the past two weeks in the place I noticed it before. Although I have been driving it less and had a shop clean out both vents. Also I recall there were some loose bolts on the transmission case that had been worked on under a previous owner. They have since been tightened. Yet I still smell a hint of diff oil when the car is at operating temp and the heater is on. The smell is not as bad as before though although the weather is considerably colder than before. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Thanks,

Matt
Boston,MA

lfdal

Matt - From what your describing there's been "issues" in that part of the system before. Always a cause for concern.

I would think the fluid on the AT dipstick would look and smell awful if you were getting gear oil in the case. It's normally a nice bright pink and doesn't have a hint of burned smell nor gear lube in it.

My first inclination would be
1) check the stick myself
2) price out the seal job at an independent
3) after the seal's done, flush the ATF (not just a drain and fill).

If the fluid on the stick is dark or smells of gear oil, I'd get it done in a hurry. But - as long as the AT is still working fine I'd be tempted to just get a fluid flush done after the seal.

Larry

paisan

Start with the seal job on the diffy and take it from there.

-mike

stever

Chat starts in an hour forty minutes. Link's on the left.

Steve, Host

dude

Hello folks, I have a problem with my power antenna. It's not going up or down, but I can hear the motor running. I called subaruparts.com and they quoted me $40 bucks for the part, but they don't have the installation manual. I was wondering if anybody has replaced it themselves and is it difficult to do?

Thanks in advance.

cpp788x

Pathtomax,

Don't buy the extended warranty unless it is a Subaru factory warranty.

I have decided to keep my leased Forester (only 19,000 miles)and replace my older van with the new outback or 7 passenger crossover. So I shopped around for an extended warranty.

For cars under 36,000 miles/3 years subaru offers a Classic used car warranty which adds 5 more years and 60,000 more miles(for a total of 8/96). cost: with a $50 deductible - I was quoted 1,050.00. This is not on the web, but offered through the dealer only.

Subaru also offers 2 new car extended warranties.
Total from day one - 7yr/100,000 mi.
I was quoted : Classic - ($50. deductible) - 1,150.00
Gold - (50 ded.) - 1,375.00

the gold covers everything except ware & and tear items.

Other dealers quoted as much as 300.00 more for the same packages. Shop around and most importantly compare sevices and items covered. - you have until the last day and mile to buy the warranty. I bought the ext. warranty for my van at 8:45PM on the last day!

If you must buy a non factory warranty you should pay considerably less since the dealer pays considerably less.

Good luck.

ateixeira

dude: I removed a damaged power antennae from my Miata. Didn't seem hard at all, though I actually replaced it with a fixed rubber mast antennae. $10 at Wal Mart, plug and play. Reception is fine.

-juice

gord7

Is there a way to disconnect the link that switches the aircon on when the heater air flow is directed to the windshield? I can understand using the aircon to dehumidify but when temperatures are very low there is no moisture in the air for the aircon to remove!

When starting off to work in a morning I need heat on the windshield as quickly as possible to get rid of any ice build, not more cold air from the aircon. If I need to dehumidify I can press a button to switch on the aircon, anybody else have this peeve with the system?

sebberry

Even tho there is little moisture in the cool air, it blows the air conditioned (de-humidified) air on the windshield to absorb the moisture on the windshield.

It clears up much quicker than without the air conditioner on. (I have the automatic system and I can turn off the A/C with the defroster on)

Besides, you would have to wait for warm air to start blowing up anyway, so let the A/C do it's job, then the warmer air will come.

mjw1948

Hello,

I just brought my 1997 Legacy Outback to the dealer for an oil change. The car has 83,000 and just over the last week ,I noticed some small oil stains on the driveway.

The dealers recommendations--Norwood Subaru in Ma., are:

Oil pumpseal leaks $359
Both valve cover gaskets leak oil $397
PCV Plate/Rear mainseal leaks oil $680
Both frt axles outer boots dry cracked $550

This from a car that was serviced regularly and had no previous problems. Does this sound reasonable and if I do go through with the repairs, are the prices fair and is the engine likely to experience these problems again?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
MJW

lfdal

You're looking at 2K of repairs - how long do you plan on keeping the car? If the answer is a long time sounds like you'd want to get the repairs made.

But: $400 for valve cover gaskets sounds ridiculous - I'd shop the price, either with another dealer or an independent. Those aren't Subaru rocket science. I would think it would be less than 1 hr per cover - in fact the crash book for an 03 6 cylinder shows it at 0.8 hr per. So $80 x 2 hrs + cost of gaskets - $60 per set = 220.00. That makes $359 sound kind of high, esp for a 4 cyl.

Someone like juice or idahodoug, or paisan would have a better idea on the oil pump and PVC seal leaks. I haven't had to do one of those myself so can't even guess...

If the boots are cracked and dry but not cracked all the way through you could douse them with some kind of plastic/rubber treatment to hold off replacing them. If they're cracked all the way through on the other hand, you might want to check on getting new or rebuilt L/R axle assy's. He's charging about enough for those anyway.

Just a thought.

Larry

robr2

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you are driving along with the defroster running on a cold morning, it is amazing how quickly your breath will fog up the windshield.

ateixeira

Doesn't sound like they traced the leak to one source. They are taking educated guesses at what it might be, but fixing everything that it could be. That gets needlessly expensive IMHO.

Get her up on ramps, crawl under there. Get a handy friend to help if you can.

OK, if you see oil on the front of the block, it's the O-ring, oil pump seal. $359 or less. Consider doing your timing belt if you have not already, since you've just paid for half the labor.

If you see stains at the outer edges of the block, the very outer edges, that's probably the valve cover gasket. Still, you could only do the side that needs it. So $200 or so, $400 for both if you wanted to.

Rear mainseal would be on the back of the block, again check there. $680, mostly because access is tough, this is a lot of labor.

The boots? You can visually inspect them, see if they still flex. If they have little cracks go ahead and change them.

Ask me why.

why juice?

Because our 626 boot cracked and leaked grease all over the wheel well. That shorted out the O2 sensor. So we had 2 big bills instead of 1.

The boot was $220 IIRC, one side, and the oxygen sensor was very costly, $500 plus.

Any how, trace the problem to the one, true source, and I think you'll get it fixed for a couple hundred.

-juice

gord7

I wasn't looking to be convinced that the aircon coming on when the heater control is in the defrost mode is a good thing. From long experience and a large number of vehicles it isn't! If I want to dehumidify I can switch on the aircon. The way it is set up at the moment is a nuisance and doesn't help with getting the windshield clear as soon as possible.

sebbery, what automatic system do you have that enables the A/C to be switched off in the defrost mode - full climate control?

squeezedlemon

I have been dealing with a leak in the front differential of my '96 Legacy Outback 2.5 L and couldn't help but wonder how much longer before I can expect to have my transmission replaced/rebuilt. Currently I have 29 K miles with mostly highway/rural driving. The tranny is currently working fine. I am trying to decide whether to get a rebuild since the tranny comes off anyhow to replace the leaking seals. The dealer estimate is $1000 to do the seal job whereas it would be $2.5K to $3K for a rebuilt tranny from an independent. I expect to put a good 10 to 15K on it over the next year or so with a cross country road trip to Alaska planned. My main concern is reliability of the transmission over the next 15K miles on the road away from home. So can I reasonably expect my transmission to hold out that long?

dcm61

Is that a typo? 29k miles on a '96?

FWIW, my '96 OBW w/ AT had 128k miles when I traded it. Never had any transmission problems except for binding in slow speed turns (possible worn extension housing, clutch pack or duty-c solenoid).

DaveM

sebberry

Yes, I have the auto climate system in the H6

jlemole

Can't imagine there could be anything wrong mechanically with a 29k mile tranny. ALthough seals may fail due to age, lack of use, old lubrication, etc., the tranny itself should be fine.

Jon

ateixeira

I agree. I would not worry unless you meant 129k miles, or at least 89k miles...

-juice

squeezedlemon

Thanks for the replies. I guess I should edit a bit more closely. So Juice, I should worry, huh?

Sorry, but I will ask the question again: what is the average life expectancy of 96 Legacy Outback transmission? Should I anticipate failure at or before 140-145K?

Another fact I neglected to mention is that the transmission case has a silicone bead around it indicating that its been worked on sometime prior to June 02 when I bought it. But again, its been working fine. How would I determine if the original was replaced with a used tranny?

-Matt

ateixeira

OK, I thought so.

Now, tough question, would I just replace the seals and lube it up, or go ahead and rebuild?

Hmm, if you have a trusted mechanic, why not ask him to open it up and inspect the insides. Then let him come up with a recommendation. Of course that costs money.

paisan has 155k on his Impreza L and he's been racing it for the last few K miles. Some of them do go on forever, they are pretty robust. It's a really tough call.

-juice

stever

I have 41k on my '97 OB - for a minute there I thought my record was in jeopardy :-)

Steve, Host

paisan

AT.
155K on my '96 L AT and that has about 1200-1500 track miles at 5-6000 RPMs for 1/2hr-1hr at a time.

-mike

squeezedlemon

Based on your worthy advice I think its just going to be the seal job. Now, how much should I expect to pay to replace the seals. I assume if they have the tranny off they should replace all the seals even if the front diff leak is the reason, no?

Is there anyone out there living near Boston, MA who would recommend a mechanic for such a job?

Matt

gail9900

Somewhat in response to MJW:
I have a 1996 Subaru Legacy and it currently has 191,000 miles on it. I have had two major problems related to oil leaks. The first involved bad seals and ran me over $1000 and the second involved a cracked head gasket which ran me another $1400. The first problem occured about 4 years ago when I probably had closer to 100K miles on the car. Both times required replacements of timing belts etc. While this was a big pain and very expensive, I must say I expect to hit 200K miles in the next 2 months, and the car seems to be holding up.

c_hunter

Similar to the WRX rig I did last week, I set up my Outback today. Wire from the cassette adapter runs into the dash, where it hooks into the Belkin Auto-Kit (I stashed it under the console, next to the shifter). Dock cable from the Auto-Kit runs back out the dash under the ashtray. The iPod is hanging on a cell-phone swivel mount (stuck to the center console cover).

Looks and sounds great!!

Craig