I have a 96 OB as well. I don't think it has anything to do with the all wheel drive mode. Your running at 90F/10R power distribution in that case, almost front wheel drive.
I think that is just the steering force at very low speeds. The 96 might just have a heavier steering wheel than you are used to.
This was actually an issue with my wife, she did not like the low speed steering on my 96. She said it required too many turns and she had to put too much effort into it. Once the car got moving it was fine. We also test drove a 99 OB and it was the same. Now the 00 and 01 are different creatures. The steering is much lighter than the 96-99.
I'm not sure if there are any advantages to that low speed steering or not, maybe off road there might be. Doesn't really bother me one way or another.
I don't mean to offend anyone on this Outback board, but another vehicle you may want to consider is the new, restyled Honda CR-V coming out this fall. That's what we are waiting for before we make our final decision.
And I would be very disappointed if it is not a quantum leap over the current model in terms of performance, features, refinement - much like the improvements of the 2nd generation Odyssey over the 1st. I always felt that the 1st generation CR-V was rushed to market because Honda needed something to go against the RAV4, and therefore not all bases were covered. Now Honda has had the time to be able to swing for the fence.
BTW there are two things that the CR-V need not improve on to compete with Subaru ,or anyone else - reliability and affordability.
Hi, The Honda CR is not a viable option for me. With the on going bus strike, I take my parents shopping and to appointments. The Honda CR would be too high for older and short people to enter and exit.
What is really interesting is the story that Honda is bringing back the Accord station wagon, but for how much? Can anyone verify the rumor?
After Consumers said things like.. "The ride is reasonably compliant, but handling is just adequate. The engine is fairly noisy, acceleration is less than sizzling, and road noise is very pronounced." and "We prefer the Subaru Forester and the redesigned Toyota RAV4."
They will need to completely retool the CR-V to compete with... "The Forester is one of the best of the car-based SUVs. It's also the only small SUV to receive a "Good" rating in an insurance-industry offset crash test."
It was an Outback Beige wagon was it not, and some where in South Van near the Fraser River. The two Mastiffs are Heidi and Greta, the driver would have been a blond women. My wife and I know her well, and that is why we are looking for a Legacy L. wagon or OBS!
Small world, we are heading up to Kamploops area to do some fly fishing next week. A few days at Knouff lake and then up to Jasper Park to fish Maligne Lake. After which we will be heading to Bonaparte Lake for a few days.
Need room for all the gears, Zodiac, motor,anchors, float tube rodssss:))
You got it. The dogs were waiting in the car at the Safeway at 70th & Granville. Thought it was a Legacy, but my memory is vague. I hope to get up the the Kamloops area within the next couple of weeks. I haven't fished Knouff in years but have fond memories. Enjoy your trip and don't forget to sharpen your hooks.
Hi, I was reading some of the earlier post, trying to soak up some knowledge. I came upon #1472 and though what a coincident! My wife walks our Siberian Husky Tara at Fraser River Park. The two Mastiff are Tara's favourite pals since they were puppies.
Their owner introduced us to the Subaru wagon, at present my wife is trying to decide between Legacy L. or OBS 2002 5 both in 5 speed )
Time will tell! I am keeping quiet in the mean time )
Earl, just talked to my daughter who is a big time fly fishing person and lives in Whitecroft (between Heffley Lakes and Sun Peaks). She reports that the fishing at Knouff Lake is now great and even better at Badger Lake which is just behind Knouff. Badger has smaller fish but they are plentiful. Ross - I am going up to see her on Friday and will E-mail you a full fishing report as previously promised when I return.
It's a slow and subtle coup. It started with the Thursday chats. Soon we will rule all of the Subaru boards . Thanks, I look forward to the report - it's greatly appreciated.
Hello All, I have read some of the comments on the Subaru boards over the past several months, but this is my first post. It is now definitely time to replace my current car (a '94 Saturn SW2), and I have narrowed down my choice to either an H4 Outback Limited (automatic) or the H6 OB LL Bean. I am concerned about the lack of acceleration with the H4, although - in a limited test drive of both cars - I did not feel too much of a difference. Is the Bean worth the extra ~$2000? I will be moving to Indiana (West Lafayette, next to the Subaru plant), commuting 10 miles a day on mostly flat country roads, and doing some occasional trips on flat, straight IN freeways. I know that the Bean will give me better acceleration, but I had some questions about the possible downsides. I have read that the front passenger legroom is ~4 inches less in the Bean. Also, there was apparently an issue with cold start problems with the first H6s, although it sounds like this has been solved. In addition, does anyone have a feel for how much less the mileage is with the H6 in the real world? I am looking in particular for comments from people who just bought the H4 or H6 - and their reasons why. In addition, do people have any recommendations of good dealerships in either central Indiana or southeastern Michigan? Thank you very much. PS I have thought about some of the other Subaru offerings, and here are my reasons for not considering them - Legacy GT - We wanted the extra ground clearance of an Outback, for trips down dirt roads; Forester - we wanted to buy the "hometown" car, and I like the looks of the OB better; Impreza or OB Sport - too small in the back. PPS - I am not Canadian, but I can see Windsor from my office window - I hope that can still post a message on this Canada/Subaru board
Off the line both vehicles feel similar from a power standpoint. The H6 is clearly the better engine as speeds rise. It's also much smoother, and has some features not offered on the H-4 models. If you want an automatic, the H-6 is the clear choice, IMHO.
My wife and I just purchased a base AT OB (H4). I started out favoring the Bean, mainly for the extra power. However, the price difference between the base and Bean was not worth it for us just to get the 6 cylinder. My wife is more practical than I. All the other features in the Bean were not that important for us. We added the AWP, auto, security and CD to the base. As I look back on it now (we bought a month ago) if I were going to spend the extra money I would probably pop for the VDC since we drive on very windy and hilly roads (NY state). However, the H4 could use a little more mid-range power with the AT, but, I am not dissappointed at all in the power and tend to prefer 4 cylinders. For your traveling (flat roads) the H4 will be fine. As for gas mileage, I'm getting between 22-25 mpg depending on how I drive. The car only has 2300 miles so I expect it to climb a little. I would expect the H6 to be lower (how much???) since more power=more fuel unless Subaru figured out how to significantly improve the efficiency of the engine (not likely). For your situation, since you are looking at the limited it is not that much more for the Bean. Keep in mind that the Bean comes with routine maintenance for the first 3 years which could tilt the money picture. Bottom line as usual - you need to sit down and decide what is important to you, what you can do without and is it worth the extra $$. Good luck and sorry for the long post.
When I bought my Bean I had already test driven a whole variety of vehicles...my criteria for selection were: auto, 4wd, suv/station wagon...or possibly 4-door pick-up truck. I wanted more ground clearance, more doors, reliability etc. I was driving a 2 door Honda Accord and with 2 kids (plus one on the way) the coupe just wouldn't cut it for the times when the van is not available. So, I narrowed it down to Subaru after driving them and being blown away by the handling and performance. I first drove a VDC, then the Limited. Since I wanted an automatic, the 4-cyl (although it was strong) just didn't provide the power or smoothness I wanted. I ultimately chose the Bean because of the price being very competative with the limited, plus, conditions here in Atlanta don't merrit the additions handling control. Also, my insurance wanted to charge me $100 more per 6mo due to higher anticipated costs of repair!
As for my car, it is a Bean Ed in Wintergreen and has the spoiler, rear-diff. protector, 6-cd, subwoofer, and cargo mat. I drive 40 mi each way to work plus up to the mountains on weekends to go on bike rides. I average 23 mpg on mostly highway with some stop-and-go and city driving along the way. I routinely allow the car to shift at the red-line...it sounds soooo nice at higher rpm. Soon I will be taking a long road trip Atlanta-Miami and I will find out how good the mileage is on strait highway.
BTW other vehicles I test drove: Rav4, Tundra, 4-Door Tacoma, CR-V, MDX (would have been first choice if $$ allowed), GMC Z71 4x4 xtra cab, Mazda Tribute.
However, I would also recommend taking both for (long, if possible) test rides. In addition, I would test several models on different days. That way you can sit back after the test ride and digest your impressions. When you go back and test the vehicles again, that will either confirm or reject your original thoughts. Also, multiple test rides, in my experience, always uncover new things that you may have missed on your first test ride.
One more thing to consider, the H-6 will probably be the better vehicle when its fully loaded. If you do a fair amount of driving with "stuff"—people/cargo/towing, I would go with the H6.
I have a '00 OB Ltd wagon (H4, 5-speed), owned since March 2000, around 12K miles.
In general, I feel that 4-cylinder engines are more appropriately matched with manual transmissions. Having said that, the 2.5L H4 is a large 4-banger. Your message implied that you'll mostly be a flat-land user. In that case, you could probably get by with the H4 and an auto. If you plan any trips to mountain country, you might want to reconsider; ditto if you plan a really full load on a regular basis.
We got our OB just before gas prices took off last year, and are glad to have the drive train combo we have - including getting by with regular gas. But for us mountain types, the H4 calls for a 5-speed. Headed across Stevens Pass to Leavenworth (Washington) yesterday, and was glad on a couple of occasions to be able to hang back behind a slow-mover (uphill) in third gear, then be able to jump on it and get by in a short passing zone. BTW, averaged just a shade over 28 mpg on the trip - 3 adults and not much else in the car. Typical of my trip mileage.
Your situation is pretty equivocal - I'd suggest you drive all the combinations, including the 5-speed.
I figured my 1st post was not long enough, so: One thing I noticed about the H4/AT combo is that sometimes the 1-2 short shifts (i.e. shifts before its time). This appears to be less frequent as I drive the car and I believe is due to the fact that Subies "learn" your driving habits and adjust accordingly. Also, the AT has a "power mode" that delays the shifts when you accelerate hard to get the most out of the engine. As for the cold starting probs with the H6, some people are still complaining about it. It appears related to the ECM, but I'm not sure if it has been addressed. Patti, can you help here? Bottom line, even though we got the base and it's an AT, I really love this car. The more I drive it, the more I want to drive it and let my wife have the Sienna.
I just got my 01 Outback. I love the car, but I notice that the doors do not close easily. If I do not slam them they will not fully close. My father inlaw says that is a good thing because it is a sign of a good solid seal. I think he is nuts. Does anyone else have a similar problem? With their car not father inlaw that is.
My LL Bean wagon now has slightly more than 5,600 miles of travel. Miles per gallon on the last fill up was 21.6. Miles were about 80% city driving. The air conditioning is on constantly as the temperature range is between 75-88 degrees here in southern Florida. The best mileage I've recorded was 27.1 on our drive to Florida from Illinois at speeds between 70-85. The "air" was on and I do have a bike rack on top.
I previously owned a '96 Outback. The difference between the two is quite pronounced. The new one is so much quieter, more powerful and filled with lots of creature comforts. With the narrow difference in price over the LTD, you should strongly consider the LL Bean.
My '98 OB AT does something like that too, and 3 years later it still does it. It is like the car is rushing you to accelerate. It expects you to be at a certain mph/rpm, and if you're not it will rush, or rev the rpm, and shift (and then "thunk" rude reminder).
I think it is normal. Both my 00 and 01 needed extra effort at first (especially with all other windows up and door closed). But after a few months it gets easier. Nice snug fit.
If you literally have to slam them to get the doors to latch, I'd say that they (meaning the latching mechanisms) are out of adjustment (assuming, of course, that they can BE adjusted). A somewhat more ominous possibility is that something structural happened to your car before you took delivery, and the door is fundamentally out of alignment with its frame. That would not be a trivial problem (more like a "return the car" problem) but is not unheard of in unibody cars (almost all, now).
I think you're describing something significantly more difficult than Bit's "extra effort."
Chris, Given that you just got your car, I think it just need time to break-in. Have you ever noticed in the showroom cars (if they've been there awhile), you'll find that the doors on the driver side closes easier than the passenger? Hey, your car never made it to the showroom.
boilermaker... We had the exact same decision to make re the LTD vs the Bean. We actually would have liked the 5 speed but of course it's n/a in the H6. Spent alot of time driving both cars. We did not feel too much power difference off the line, but these being new cars with few miles we didn't press the issue too boldly. The initial reaction was that there was a great difference in smoothness between the 5 speed LTD and the auto Bean. The Bean was much quieter as well We could have done w/o some of the LL Bean logos and stuff, but no choice there. After much debate we decided on the Bean. Picked it up in Irvine ,CA for $100 over invoice with no garbage fees and took the 2.9% for the entire price except for the $2K they let us put on the credit card (for FF points) We have just completed 1000 miles and feel like we made the right choice. Most of our miles are highway so the extra power on hills at our elevation (8000-10000) Power keeps on coming right up to redline with no strain. Milage has been right at 25 (using 91-92 octane) with 90% hiway time. No problems of any kind. The ECM problem was solved from what I understand around March (we were sure to get a late production car...April of 01) I think which ever model you decide on you will not be disappointed. This is our 3rd Subaru and the other 2 are still around (an 86 with 250K miles and a 95 with 150K) Let us know what you do Goodf Luck
The doors should take a little bit of an effort to close if all the windows are up and the other doors are closed. Try lowering all the windows and the doors should close without having to slam them then. The doors on my 00 wagon seem solid and well sealed, they sound just like I would expect on a quality car. I've even had passengers give positive comments on the satisfying "thunk" they produce.
Can't help you much with the engine thing. When I bought my wagon I didn't have the choice of the H6, but even if I had, I'd have gotten the H4 for the lower sticker price and better gas mileage. And even if I had the money to burn for the bigger engine and gas, the lack of a manual tranny would have kept me out of it. I spent eight years driving a mini van, I couldn't wait to get back into something I could shift! Good luck with whatever you end up with.
I'm with you on 5-speeds (haven't driven the few 6-speeds that exist), but here's a tidbit for you to ponder about minivans. The vehicle my OB was bought to replace (until my 17-year-old daughter adopted it) was a 1989 Dodge Caravan LE - 5-speed turbo (2.5L OHC 4-banger) - had to special order it, of course. Excellent linkage, nice clutch if a bit stiff, terrific performance - both mileage and acceleration, and a ball to drive (well, for a minivan that is) with the sports suspension and bigger wheels/tires. And best of all, it was actually reliable! In 1989, the turbo 4 produced more HP than the Mitsubishi 6 Chrysler used in the minis. I've driven that van all over the country, and have often gotten 30 mpg at "low" highway speeds (55-60 - 2-lane type roads in Texas, etc.). Darn near got 600 miles out of a single 20-gallon tank, but the boss made me refuel as she was getting pretty nervous! A major reason I went for the OB was because I could get it with a 5-speed; I don't think anyone makes a non-commercial minvan with a manual anymore. Now, if Mazda had put their 3.0L V-6 and a 5-speed into that new MPV (instead of that dog 2.5L), I could have been had...
Hello, Has anyone tried putting 3 booster seats across the back seat on the Outback wagon? Is there a shoulder belt for the middle seat? I have a 96 and it doesn't have the shoulder belt in the middle, only on the ends. I heard the new one does. I have 3 childern and need the shoulder straps. Thanks for any info in advance !!
Richard, I have the LL Bean. It has almost 2000 miles and is averaging 20 mpg, mostly city driving. I chose it over the Limited because I felt like the Bean demo shifted a little more smoothly than the Limited demo I drove. I also preferred the feel of the steering wheel in the Bean (I like the wood and leather combo). And the 3 years of basic service helped take the sting out of the extra cost of the Bean. But my favoritism was slight. The Bean and Limited are both very nice. My Bean was manufactured in February and has a starting problem, but I am hopeful that my dealership will fix it. Patti put me in touch with the service manager and he was very nice. For now, I am keeping a daily record of how the car starts, the temperature, time of day, and octane level of the fuel. They want to recreate the problem, but I have found that it is inconsistent at temperatures above 40, so I may have to wait until winter. It has started ok 8 out of the last 10 mornings. One morning, it turned over more than 12 times before it would start. Usually it turns over 3 to 4 times before it starts. But you probably won't have the problem if you get one made recently. Just be sure to pick the wagon out yourself. Don't let the dealership pick it. That was my mistake. Other than the starting problem and some rough shifting (maybe that will get fixed when the ECM is fixed), the Bean is very comfortable. Someone mentioned earlier that their friends remarked that the back seat is very comfortable. One of my friends said she gets car sick whenever she rides in the back seat of a car, but she didn't feel sick in the back seat of the Bean. She thought it was because she had a better view over the front seat than most cars. It will be going on its first road trip this month. I'm expecting an enjoyable, smooth, and relaxing 10 hour drive with doggie port-a-kennel and thermoelectric cooler in the back. No stopping at Stuckeys or Dairy Queen this time. Gonna try to stick to the healthy snacks in the cooler. I don't know though.... a road trip without fries and Doritos just doesn't seem natural.
In your post #1536, what do you mean by "Power keeps on coming right up to redline with no strain." (Ha! Pardon my ignorance, but I actually got in my car and looked for a red line, but I don't think you mean the red line at 75000 rpm, right? I know what off the line is, but what's the redline?) I'm curious because I lose quite a bit of power when I encounter a gradual hill and that's when I get some rough shifting. I have a long, gradual hill I drive every day at 40 mph. As I start up it at 40, the wagon slows and I start pushing on the accelerator, but don't get an immediate response, and have to keep pushing until I've almost floored it, then the wagon shifts roughly back and forth. I can avoid some of this if I drop it into 3rd as I start up the hill. I also lose a lot of momentum when I encounter a gradual hill when cruising along the highway at 75mph between Denver and Colorado Springs. When the wagon starts to slow and I start pushing on the accelerator, I don't get a quick response. The ECM's memory has been cleared at the dealership, but I haven't noticed an improvement. It feels awkward to me, but I'm not sure because this is my first automatic. How does yours react on hills and when merging into fast moving traffic on the highway? Thanks, Becky
3 booster seats won't fit the back seat properly or at all(at least 3 Century Grand Explorer's). We have a 2000 OB and use 2. It leaves enough room for another child without the booster (or an adult in a pinch). Yes, all three positions have shoulder belts and they all have ratcheting ALR/ELR mechanisms. Hope this helps.
I had that same engine, in my 89 Shadow ES. With a five speed. Knowing what it did for your van, you can imagine what a blast it was in my little hatchback. It was the first car I ever special ordered, and I thought it was pretty good performance for the money. I remember a salesman telling me how they sold that engine in the mini-van with a five speed, and how it out-performed the V6. But by 1992 when I bought my mini-van, the 3.0 liter six in it put out the same horsepower (150) as the turbo four used to. The Shadow ES by that time was also getting the 3.0. As far as I know, the 2.5 turbo was no longer available at that time. After having said all that, I can only imagine what the WRX with 227hp must feel like!
The doors on my 01 L take a little push to close with the windows up. I think it's the glass pressing on the seals. Some people think it's the air pressure bouncing inside. I wouldn't adjust anything unless it's really a problem. In my experience, it is hard to beat the factory at aligning body parts.
I just wanted to post a short message, and thank all of you who posted in response to my question about the H4 Limited versus the LL Bean. You have raised some very good points, but I think that I need to follow rsholland's advice, and take both cars on another test drive, to compare them again. I will post again to let you know how it goes. In any case, after taking a couple of drives in OBs, I am definitely a convert to Subaru. To me, the difference between FWD and AWD is like the difference between walking in dress shoes and walking in sneakers. At the same time, OBs ride very well (or as well as you can expect) on our very rough Michigan roads.
Yesterday I took my OB H4 on a semi-long highway drive. I went over 150 miles on a 1/4 tank of gas. Typically, I've noticed I get about 200 miles on 1/2 tank with mixed driving and that equates to about 24 mpg. So, if I exptrapolate I am guessing I was equal to or greater than 30mpg during my first 1/4 tank. Unfortunately, the rest of the tank will be mixed driving. This is with an AT and I was driving at 70-75mph, no AC but with windows open, music going and passing all the SUVs who seemed to be going particularly slow - probably to save their precious gas!
As for windows, my Camry used to do the same thing. It definitely was air pressure - so your father in law still has his mind in tact. If I cracked the window a little the door closed easily, if the windows were all up the door took extra effort. I do notice a little bit of a difference with my OB with the windows up vs. down.
Most people, when buying a car, just test the model they're considering once. I think that's a big mistake. I have seen several posts here at Edmunds (in different forums) of people who have purchased just after one test ride, and are now very unhappy with their purchase.
I strongly recommend that anyone considering a new car purchase, to test the model they like, several times, several days apart, and perhaps at different dealers too. The more you test it, the more informed you are, and the better able you are to make the correct decision.
I am shopping for my first car and had questions similar to boilermaker4 in terms of the subarau engine. Since I am looking at the outback Limited sedan, I don't have the option of the L.L. Bean Ed. of the VDC (at least not in sedan form until 2002, but I think it will be pricey). My other consideration is the Galant LS by Mits. It has a V6, but I don't recall a significant difference in the pep of the engine when test driving. I tested the Subaru twice and the Galant once. Is there any additional advice or info that may be helpful to me in additional to what was said to boilermaker4. How do H4 engines compare in terms of the quality of their power over the life of the car? Is the V6 better in terms of this? I have to say that the comments I read about the Galant were not even close to the positive sentiments that you all seem to have about the Outback. That plus the 4-wheel drive almost make me feel more confident about the OB despite the difference in engine!
The tach has a red section in the 7000 PM range. As I mentioned the engine seems to rev easily into this area. If you keep the revs up in the 4000 + range there is plenty of hill power. The grade from Bishop to Mammoth climbs over 3000 ft and the Bean can easily maintain 80 MPH if you keep the revs up. Once the upshift takes place the power naturally drops off and you got to keep kicking it down. Just don't be afraid to keep it on the boil. My car was April production and I have not had any starting or swiftness roughness. One thing this car should have however is a select shift section like the Acura (or many other sporty automatics) where all it takes to change gears up or down is a slight push. On the sub you can easily go 3rd to 4th but down to 2nd takes a move to the right. Again , once your car is broken in don't be afraid to keep the revs up
Question: Are the spark plugs in a 2000 Outback Wagon, 2.5 regular plugs or platinum? The owners manual says to change them out at 30K, my dealership says they are platinum and do not need to be changed until 60K. Who's right? Patti?
Comments
I don't think it has anything to do with the all wheel drive mode. Your running at 90F/10R power distribution in that case, almost front wheel drive.
I think that is just the steering force at very low speeds. The 96 might just have a heavier steering wheel than you are used to.
This was actually an issue with my wife, she did not like the low speed steering on my 96. She said it required too many turns and she had to put too much effort into it. Once the car got moving it was fine. We also test drove a 99 OB and it was the same. Now the 00 and 01 are different creatures. The steering is much lighter than the 96-99.
I'm not sure if there are any advantages to that low speed steering or not, maybe off road there might be. Doesn't really bother me one way or another.
Sheesh!
BTW there are two things that the CR-V need not improve on to compete with Subaru ,or anyone else - reliability and affordability.
The Honda CR is not a viable option for me.
With the on going bus strike, I take my parents shopping and to appointments. The Honda CR would be too high for older and short people to enter and exit.
What is really interesting is the story that Honda is bringing back the Accord station wagon,
but for how much? Can anyone verify the rumor?
Regards,
Balifly
"The ride is reasonably compliant, but handling is just adequate. The engine is fairly noisy, acceleration is less than sizzling, and road noise is very pronounced." and "We prefer the Subaru Forester and the redesigned Toyota RAV4."
They will need to completely retool the CR-V to compete with...
"The Forester is one of the best of the car-based SUVs. It's also the only small SUV to receive a "Good" rating in an insurance-industry offset crash test."
http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORDwagon/
bit
Tom
http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORDwagon/env/environment2_1.html
bit
It was an Outback Beige wagon was it not, and some where in South Van near the Fraser River.
The two Mastiffs are Heidi and Greta, the driver would have been a blond women.
My wife and I know her well, and that is why we are looking for a Legacy L. wagon or OBS!
Small world, we are heading up to Kamploops area to do some fly fishing next week. A few days at Knouff lake and then up to Jasper Park to fish Maligne Lake. After which we will be heading to Bonaparte Lake for a few days.
Need room for all the gears, Zodiac, motor,anchors, float tube rodssss:))
Hoping to have a new fish mobile by the fall!
Tight line and screaming reel.
>><<<<<@>
Balifly
Ross
I was reading some of the earlier post, trying to soak up some knowledge. I came upon #1472 and though what a coincident! My wife walks our Siberian Husky Tara at Fraser River Park. The two Mastiff are Tara's favourite pals since they were puppies.
Their owner introduced us to the Subaru wagon, at present my wife is trying to decide between Legacy L. or OBS 2002 5 both in 5 speed
Time will tell! I am keeping quiet in the mean time
Regards,
Balifly
Ross - I am going up to see her on Friday and will E-mail you a full fishing report as previously promised when I return.
Cheers, Tom
p.s. I didn't know this was a Canadian Site ;-)
Dave B.
Ross
I have read some of the comments on the Subaru boards over the past several months, but this is my first post. It is now definitely time to replace my current car (a '94 Saturn SW2), and I have narrowed down my choice to either an H4 Outback Limited (automatic) or the H6 OB LL Bean. I am concerned about the lack of acceleration with the H4, although - in a limited test drive of both cars - I did not feel too much of a difference. Is the Bean worth the extra ~$2000? I will be moving to Indiana (West Lafayette, next to the Subaru plant), commuting 10 miles a day on mostly flat country roads, and doing some occasional trips on flat, straight IN freeways. I know that the Bean will give me better acceleration, but I had some questions about the possible downsides. I have read that the front passenger legroom is ~4 inches less in the Bean. Also, there was apparently an issue with cold start problems with the first H6s, although it sounds like this has been solved. In addition, does anyone have a feel for how much less the mileage is with the H6 in the real world? I am looking in particular for comments from people who just bought the H4 or H6 - and their reasons why. In addition, do people have any recommendations of good dealerships in either central Indiana or southeastern Michigan? Thank you very much.
PS I have thought about some of the other Subaru offerings, and here are my reasons for not considering them - Legacy GT - We wanted the extra ground clearance of an Outback, for trips down dirt roads; Forester - we wanted to buy the "hometown" car, and I like the looks of the OB better; Impreza or OB Sport - too small in the back.
PPS - I am not Canadian, but I can see Windsor from my office window - I hope that can still post a message on this Canada/Subaru board
Bob
Greg
When I bought my Bean I had already test driven a whole variety of vehicles...my criteria for selection were: auto, 4wd, suv/station wagon...or possibly 4-door pick-up truck. I wanted more ground clearance, more doors, reliability etc. I was driving a 2 door Honda Accord and with 2 kids (plus one on the way) the coupe just wouldn't cut it for the times when the van is not available. So, I narrowed it down to Subaru after driving them and being blown away by the handling and performance. I first drove a VDC, then the Limited. Since I wanted an automatic, the 4-cyl (although it was strong) just didn't provide the power or smoothness I wanted. I ultimately chose the Bean because of the price being very competative with the limited, plus, conditions here in Atlanta don't merrit the additions handling control. Also, my insurance wanted to charge me $100 more per 6mo due to higher anticipated costs of repair!
As for my car, it is a Bean Ed in Wintergreen and has the spoiler, rear-diff. protector, 6-cd, subwoofer, and cargo mat. I drive 40 mi each way to work plus up to the mountains on weekends to go on bike rides. I average 23 mpg on mostly highway with some stop-and-go and city driving along the way. I routinely allow the car to shift at the red-line...it sounds soooo nice at higher rpm. Soon I will be taking a long road trip Atlanta-Miami and I will find out how good the mileage is on strait highway.
BTW other vehicles I test drove: Rav4, Tundra, 4-Door Tacoma, CR-V, MDX (would have been first choice if $$ allowed), GMC Z71 4x4 xtra cab, Mazda Tribute.
I hope this helps! Good luck.
One more thing to consider, the H-6 will probably be the better vehicle when its fully loaded. If you do a fair amount of driving with "stuff"—people/cargo/towing, I would go with the H6.
Bob
I have a '00 OB Ltd wagon (H4, 5-speed), owned since March 2000, around 12K miles.
In general, I feel that 4-cylinder engines are more appropriately matched with manual transmissions. Having said that, the 2.5L H4 is a large 4-banger. Your message implied that you'll mostly be a flat-land user. In that case, you could probably get by with the H4 and an auto. If you plan any trips to mountain country, you might want to reconsider; ditto if you plan a really full load on a regular basis.
We got our OB just before gas prices took off last year, and are glad to have the drive train combo we have - including getting by with regular gas. But for us mountain types, the H4 calls for a 5-speed. Headed across Stevens Pass to Leavenworth (Washington) yesterday, and was glad on a couple of occasions to be able to hang back behind a slow-mover (uphill) in third gear, then be able to jump on it and get by in a short passing zone. BTW, averaged just a shade over 28 mpg on the trip - 3 adults and not much else in the car. Typical of my trip mileage.
Your situation is pretty equivocal - I'd suggest you drive all the combinations, including the 5-speed.
Cheers from the PNW.
Ken M.
Greg
I previously owned a '96 Outback. The difference between the two is quite pronounced. The new one is so much quieter, more powerful and filled with lots of creature comforts. With the narrow difference in price over the LTD, you should strongly consider the LL Bean.
Good luck.
Don
My '98 OB AT does something like that too, and 3 years later it still does it. It is like the car is rushing you to accelerate. It expects you to be at a certain mph/rpm, and if you're not it will rush, or rev the rpm, and shift (and then "thunk" rude reminder).
bit
Thanks Mike
If you literally have to slam them to get the doors to latch, I'd say that they (meaning the latching mechanisms) are out of adjustment (assuming, of course, that they can BE adjusted). A somewhat more ominous possibility is that something structural happened to your car before you took delivery, and the door is fundamentally out of alignment with its frame. That would not be a trivial problem (more like a "return the car" problem) but is not unheard of in unibody cars (almost all, now).
I think you're describing something significantly more difficult than Bit's "extra effort."
Good luck - and keep us posted.
Ken M.
Given that you just got your car, I think it just need time to break-in. Have you ever noticed in the showroom cars (if they've been there awhile), you'll find that the doors on the driver side closes easier than the passenger?
Hey, your car never made it to the showroom.
We had the exact same decision to make re the LTD vs the Bean. We actually would have liked the 5 speed but of course it's n/a in the H6.
Spent alot of time driving both cars. We did not feel too much power difference off the line, but these being new cars with few miles we didn't press the issue too boldly. The initial reaction was that there was a great difference in smoothness between the 5 speed LTD and the auto Bean. The Bean was much quieter as well
We could have done w/o some of the LL Bean logos and stuff, but no choice there. After much debate we decided on the Bean. Picked it up in Irvine ,CA for $100 over invoice with no garbage fees and took the 2.9% for the entire price except for the $2K they let us put on the credit card (for FF points)
We have just completed 1000 miles and feel like we made the right choice. Most of our miles are highway so the extra power on hills at our elevation (8000-10000) Power keeps on coming right up to redline with no strain. Milage has been right at 25 (using 91-92 octane) with 90% hiway time. No problems of any kind. The ECM problem was solved from what I understand around March (we were sure to get a late production car...April of 01)
I think which ever model you decide on you will not be disappointed. This is our 3rd Subaru and the other 2 are still around (an 86 with 250K miles and a 95 with 150K)
Let us know what you do
Goodf Luck
Can't help you much with the engine thing. When I bought my wagon I didn't have the choice of the H6, but even if I had, I'd have gotten the H4 for the lower sticker price and better gas mileage. And even if I had the money to burn for the bigger engine and gas, the lack of a manual tranny would have kept me out of it. I spent eight years driving a mini van, I couldn't wait to get back into something I could shift! Good luck with whatever you end up with.
Dave B.
I'm with you on 5-speeds (haven't driven the few 6-speeds that exist), but here's a tidbit for you to ponder about minivans. The vehicle my OB was bought to replace (until my 17-year-old daughter adopted it) was a 1989 Dodge Caravan LE - 5-speed turbo (2.5L OHC 4-banger) - had to special order it, of course. Excellent linkage, nice clutch if a bit stiff, terrific performance - both mileage and acceleration, and a ball to drive (well, for a minivan that is) with the sports suspension and bigger wheels/tires. And best of all, it was actually reliable! In 1989, the turbo 4 produced more HP than the Mitsubishi 6 Chrysler used in the minis. I've driven that van all over the country, and have often gotten 30 mpg at "low" highway speeds (55-60 - 2-lane type roads in Texas, etc.). Darn near got 600 miles out of a single 20-gallon tank, but the boss made me refuel as she was getting pretty nervous! A major reason I went for the OB was because I could get it with a 5-speed; I don't think anyone makes a non-commercial minvan with a manual anymore. Now, if Mazda had put their 3.0L V-6 and a 5-speed into that new MPV (instead of that dog 2.5L), I could have been had...
Cheers!
Ken M.
Becky
Thanks, Becky
3 booster seats won't fit the back seat properly or at all(at least 3 Century Grand Explorer's). We have a 2000 OB and use 2. It leaves enough room for another child without the booster (or an adult in a pinch). Yes, all three positions have shoulder belts and they all have ratcheting ALR/ELR mechanisms. Hope this helps.
Live Happy,
Chris
I had that same engine, in my 89 Shadow ES. With a five speed. Knowing what it did for your van, you can imagine what a blast it was in my little hatchback. It was the first car I ever special ordered, and I thought it was pretty good performance for the money.
I remember a salesman telling me how they sold that engine in the mini-van with a five speed, and how it out-performed the V6. But by 1992 when I bought my mini-van, the 3.0 liter six in it put out the same horsepower (150) as the turbo four used to. The Shadow ES by that time was also getting the 3.0. As far as I know, the 2.5 turbo was no longer available at that time.
After having said all that, I can only imagine what the WRX with 227hp must feel like!
Dave B.
As for windows, my Camry used to do the same thing. It definitely was air pressure - so your father in law still has his mind in tact. If I cracked the window a little the door closed easily, if the windows were all up the door took extra effort. I do notice a little bit of a difference with my OB with the windows up vs. down.
Hope this helps,
Greg
I strongly recommend that anyone considering a new car purchase, to test the model they like, several times, several days apart, and perhaps at different dealers too. The more you test it, the more informed you are, and the better able you are to make the correct decision.
Good luck.
Bob
I have to admit that my 01 OB makes a most solid and pleasing Thud as it closes compared to my 96.
Bob
Again , once your car is broken in don't be afraid to keep the revs up
John
Thanks