Subaru Legacy/Outback

evilizard

6 yrs and 67K miles later my 4 banger is still humming along fine. I have never noticed any drop in power output. Hard to say about the H6 as they have only been out a year or so.

breckco

boblee9,

We have a 2000 OB and not only are the spark plugs non-platinum but they are "champion" brand. Champion make the worst spark plugs on the market. Our OB developed a "miss" will idling and after I found out the car had these plugs I insisted they intall NGK plugs. Never had the problem again. Something to consider. Otherwise, great car!

Live Happy,

Chris

boblee9

Question: Are the spark plugs in a 2000 Outback Wagon, 2.5 regular plugs or platinum? The owners manual says to change them out at 30K, my dealership says they are platinum and do not need to be changed until 60K. Who's right? Patti?

Thanks

mtnshopper

I think I am driving my Bean a little too timidly. My rpms rarely even get to 4000. One of my co-workers suggested this morning that I just keep it in 3rd while I'm driving around town. So I tried that when I ran errands at lunch time and it performed better and even merged onto the freeway better. Yesterday I merged onto the freeway in front of a semi with the wagon in Drive, the accelerator floored, and praying for my life. Today, in 3rd, it accelerated quickly when I merged onto the freeway without a lag in speed. Then I put it in drive when I get up to cruising speed. I guess I'm not used to the automatic and need to get a better feel for driving it,especially at a little altitude. It will be interesting to see the difference in performance when I go from 6000 feet in elevation to about 1300 when I drive to Wichita.

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Bean and don't have any problems.

Becky

sb69coupe

I'm currently on the fence over whether to buy a Winestone 2001 LLBean OB, or wait for the 2002. I saw a color chip at my dealer for the new red that is replacing the Winestone. It's a nice bright metallic red, but I'm not sure if I like it better than the Winestone. I have a great deal lined up on a 2001, but I'd like to see a red 2002 in the flesh (Sheetmetal?) before I decide.

So, does anyone know when the 2002 models are due into the dealers?

Shannon

nellcoop

A friend of mine just called me asking about a deal that she was given by a local dealer here in CT. Can someone tell me if this is a good deal. The car is a 2001 Outback (no big bells and whistles) with 7000 miles on it and the dealer offered her $19,900. Unfortunately I don't know the exact package but it sounds like a standard package and the car is an automatic. They were really pressuring her that it's a good deal so I told her that I'd come here and find out if it really is? Thanks!

fc997

Last weekend, the dealer offered me $22,000 for a new OB H4 which I guess is your friend's one. Or $22,800 with leather seats.
But I ended-up buying a OB LL Bean - very satisfied.

$2,100 for 7000 miles, reasonable...
(I'm living in LA)

kens

Bob,

The 2000 OB uses the 2.5L SOHC Phase II engine which come with standard plugs. The standard plugs require a 30K service interval. The older OBs with 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine use platinum plugs because it's much more difficult to replace them on the older engine design.

The dealer needs to do his homework.

Ken

rsholland

not another Bob...

Bob

peka

Greg,
I noticed that you mentioned you were from Putnam County. My parents are considering buying either an OB or Forester (to drive on that darn Taconic in the winter), and I have been doing some research to help them out. They live in southern Dutchess County, so I was wondering what dealership you purchased your OB from and whether you would recommend buying from them. Thanks.

kturner1

I read a lot of postings on how comfortable the Sub is. I love my 01 L except for the seats. To me, they are too firm and the lumbar pokes me in the back. On my seats, the lumbar is not adjustable. Does anyone else feel this way? More importantly, does anyone have any suggestions? I would prefer to maintain the stock appearance. Thanks! This forum is great.

ffsteve

Just one more comment on our search that ended up with an LL Bean.

After reading about the alternatives which also included Ford/Mazda, Mitsubishi, VW and the Acura MDX, we drove the Honda CRV and Passport, Ford SportTrac (just for grins), Chevy Blazer (rental), Outback Wagon, Outback Limited and the LL Bean. A local car show made it easy to sit in the driver's seat, slam the doors, and just generally imagine driving each one. A great way to narrow down choices.

We liked the Outback from the first, but it wasn't until we did a back-to-back test drive comparison between the Lexus RX300 and the Bean that we made our decision. The Lexus was just too big and noisy, and it seemed that the engine had to try hard to push the vehicle around - and then we compared the prices! The decision was simple after that with no regrets (but why are so many others buying them?).

subaru_team

Good Morning!

They are not platinum plugs in your vehicle. 30K should be the maintenance interval.

Ken knows his stuff!

Patti

nygreg

I purchased my OB from Colonial Subaru in Danbury. They were the most professional, give the first maintenance (read: oil change) free and have loaner cars. They also claim to be the largest dealer in NE. I have used their service already and they were very courteous, although they did overfill my oil. I tried many dealers mainly through the internet and phone and Colonial was the best to work with. In southern Dutchess there is Wappingers Falls Toyota/Subaru where I purchased my Sienna last year and expected to purchase my OB there too. However, the turnover is high and they tried to play a bait and switch on me with cars. I told them to take a hike and unfortunately will not recommend them. Have your parents use Wappingers for test drives since they are close, but definitely try Colonial (ask for Mr. Jowdy). You can also try Smith Cairns Subaru in Brewster. I got my OB in winestone for $23,300. It has auto, AWP, CD, Security, and leather shift knob. That's a few hundred over invoice, but got a good deal on my trade in (also done very professional). Was on the Taconic this week and finally was able to push the car a little (now has 2300 miles on it). It handled the Taconic very nicely. Hope this helps,

Good luck,
Greg

hypov

Keith,
Give your contours a little time and it will conform to the seat(if you know what I mean)...
OK, kidding aside, the seat will settle in.

ochssk

My wife is thinking of buying a legacy or OB wagon. I got conflicting answers on another board so I'll try here. Is the 2.5L engine an interference or noninterference engine. And if we win the lottery is the 6 cylinder interference or noninterference?

Thanks

youscottmail

Has anyone had good or bad experiences towing a small trailer with their Outback? I plan to buy
a 2002 Outback, and I'm trying to figure out if I should get the tow hitch and really ever tow
anything with it. The specs sheet says it can tow 2,000 lbs...but the owner's manual says you
can forget about the warranty if any damage is done by towing. The manual also says the towing
limit is really 1,000 lbs. unless the trailer has its own breaks, and guess what...most trailers
designed for 2,000 lbs. service don't have breaks. The single-axle flatbed utility trailers I've found weigh 600-700 lbs (steel construction, available at some U-Haul rentals and Home Depot rentals), and an aluminum equivalent weighs 350 lbs. Subtract out the trailer weight, and I'm down to 300-600 lbs of cargo capacity. What do I want to tow? 362 days a year, nothing. The other 3 days, maybe some yard waste, an old couch, or some sheets of plywood. So I'm not interested in owning a larger, gas-guzzling, lousy-handling truck/SUV with REAL towing capacity just for a hypothetical 3 hauls a year...I can rent a U-Haul truck for that if needed. The LAST thing I would want to do is damage the Outback to avoid a $40 rental fee a few times a year. So...should I count on the capability and convenience of towing with my Outback...or should I just rent a truck on those days?

otis123

I (or my wife) drive our H6 LLBean Outback on Taconic everyday. We live in northern Westchester Co. (Yorktown Heights), and commute to White Plains - but often head up to Poughkeepsie on weekends. The car handles great on the 4 lane section through Putnam Co. (I freak my wife out driving in the left lane at 75mph, hugging the middle guardrail).

As with "NYGreg", we also used Wappinger Falls Subaru/Toyota for test driving (twice), but they didn't get the sale because they wanted MSRP (back in December) and were totally unprofessional. We bought from Curry Subaru (also test drove twice there) in Yorktown. Got a great deal from a professional car salesman named Pete Acton, who has been there for 7 years and is a full-time NYC fireman. Nice guy. Worth the scenic drive down the Taconic for your parents.

My $.02.....

evilizard

I'd just stick with the rentals.
After all you are talking about a $250 hitch accessory plus buying(?) a $300-600 trailer. Thats around $600 min to buy the stuff (don't forget you will need a place to keep it). $600/40=15 days of rentals before you break even. So your looking at 5 years.

In addition you have the additional risk to yourself and your car involved in towing.

Its much easier to drive a big truck than a car + trailer, especially backing up!

With the trailer your always wondering "Am I overloading it" as opposed to "Pile it on" with a truck. I'd much rather abuse rental equipment than my own stuff.

kmclean

Scott -

No contest - rent the truck. Save the OB.

Same reason I bought the OB instead of another minivan - on those few days (out-of-town guests) I might need to carry 6 or 7 people - you guessed it - I'll rent the truck (van).

Cheers,

Ken M.

mlpieper

I am considering the purchase of an Limited OB 1999 or 2000 - what are the differences?

javaswing

any idea? and I sure hope they change
the sun roof and cup holder designs.

sagresta

I purchased my 2001 H4/Automatic wagon in January and shortly after I noticed several weird noises, but the most irritating is stuttering between 2 and 2.5 rpms. It's at the dealer now for the 4th time for this (they've been unable to repair it). This past weekend the check engine light came on. We use only 93 octane gas and I don't think the noise is a spark ping like the service tech keeps suggesting. The dealer even drained the tank of gas and replaced it with 93 octane just to make sure I wasn't lieing about what type of gas I use. The car only makes this noise when it is warmed up sufficently.
The dealer is now giving me a bit of a run around and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a stutter problem like this? Any suggestions as to what could be causing it? I'm meeting with the regional manager next week and I'm looking into my rights under the lemon laws of my state.
Thanks

rsholland

This has been a subject of much discussion here at Edmunds. Everything you mentioned, we've covered at least once, and perhaps several times.

Yes, it's frustrating that Subaru's tow limit, and restrictions, are so low. For some of us, that issue is at, or near, the top of the list for future product upgrades.

Bob

ateixeira

Scott: coincidentally, I just borrowed Bob's trailer (yes, the Bob in the previous post) to haul some wood chips. A 700 lb trailer with 3 yards of wood chips was no problem at all for my Forester. Outbacks weigh more and have disc brakes all around plus bigger brake rotors, so it would only do better, especially an automatic.

Having said that, I would not push it any further. Mulch is heavier than wood chips, so I'd limit it to one or two yards of mulch, unless you get a lighter aluminum trailer.

I do recommend a 5'x8' size. 3 yards nearly fills it up, so a 4'x8' would be a real squeeze. The 5" width makes it more stable, too.

Then again, renting may be cheaper. I had the hitch for the bike rack as well, so...

David: my cousin puts 3 kids in the back of his '99 Outback, and the 2000 models are wider. Go to photopoint, look for ateixeira@ifc.org's photo album, and I think it's under family photos.

Steve: inteference or not? I think the underlying question is about timing belts and service costs. The H6 has a chain and requires no changes. The H4 has a 105k mile service interval that is far longer than most (usually 60k). I believe my Phase I is non-interference, but the new ones are - but the bigger point is you should not stretch the already longish 105k mile interval.

Michelle: 1999->2000 means many changes. That's when the redesign came. The 2000 is wider, bigger, heavier, and has a stiffer structure. It went to the Phase II engine with a bit more torque, and the new style with the V shaped rear window some like and others don't. The new one aced crash tests, so if you afford one go for it.

-juice

ateixeira

Start here:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1400062

Then go to Forester Photos, and look at photo 18 for the 3 kids in the back seat. I suggest taking your actual baby seats to a dealer to try it yourself, however.

Under the Hitch album, photos 23-26 show the bike rack and the trailer I towed. Even the load of wood chips is pictured.

Hope that helps.

-juice

breckco

sagresta,

Here's a long shot but worth a try. Our 2000 OB 2.5, 5 spd developed a miss in the idle. The dealer couldn't figure out the problem. Turned out it was the spark plugs (champion). After installation of NGK plugs the problem went away. Good Luck

Live Happy,

Chris

peka

Thanks for the info "nygreg" and "otis123." My parents are very close to Wappingers Falls, so Wappingers Falls Subura seems like a definite for test driving, but since both of you have had bad experiences there, that's probably all they are good for. I'll let them know Curry and Colonial get "thumbs up" for when its time to make a deal.

peka

I know that most of the people on this board are OB drivers, but I was wondering if any of you (especially those that have bought OB's recently) considered the Forester when you made your purchases. What made you go with the Outback over the Forester, if you considered it. They seem to have many of the same features to me and the only real difference I see is that the Outback is longer and the Forester is taller. Are there more substantive differences that I'm missing?

ateixeira

I did the opposite - drove an Outback first, then chose the Forester because it felt lighter and more nimble to me.

The Legacy is bigger and more comfy. It's probably a better choice to haul passengers long distances, and for long commutes and such. The ride is very smooth with the long wheelbase, and the interior is more upscale. Got 2-3 kids? This is the one.

The Forester is far lighter and quicker with the same engine. The short wheelbase makes it more manueverable too, and mileage tends to be a little better from what I've heard. It's tall and boxy shape means a clothes washer fit inside, even with the box, which is handy. I find the height very user-friendly, and the extra ground clearance may come in handy. It's also cheaper.

But to each their own. I helped my cousin buy an Outback in '99, and my dad chose a 2001 Outback over a Forester S Premium recently because it was more comfy. I think you can't go wrong - we've all been quite pleased.

-juice

jagarland

Have a 2000 OBL and my lease is up early next year. I have a small boat and with a trailer, gas and gear it weighs 2500lbs max, but I don't want to chance pulling it with my current car (warranty and insurance concerns) although I know it will do it easily. Since the VDC and/or the LLB have the same tow specs, I can't look forward to one of those and Subaru will lose me as a customer......and I really like Subarus. Please Subaru come up with a tow package that will allow higher towing weights!!!!!!!

Jack

kens

Similar story with me too. I was originally shopping for an OB then came across the Forester. What sold me was exactly what juice wrote -- quicker and more nimble.

Also, this was back in 1998 when the Forester was new and the previous generation OB was starting show it's age. I personally just liked the way the Forester looked both inside and out.

If I were in the market today, I think the "lighter and quicker" would stand out more given that the new OB gained considerable weight. However, the overall looks and build quality of the newer OBs have improved too.

It still would have been a tough choice.

Ken

rsholland

the funny thing is, in other markets, Australia for one, Subarus have much higher tow limits. There the H-6 is rated (with trailer brakes) to tow over 3500 lb., and the H-4 is rated (with trailer brakes) at around 3000 lbs. Without trailer brakes the ratings for both models is around 1100 lbs.

Yep, it's very frustrating.

Bob

grahampeters

G'day

I think the tow ratings here in Australia have a lot to do with legislation. My Outback tows beuatifully and I have towed both a caravan and more regularly a 6'x4' trailer. The trailer is 180kg empty (about 400lb) and loaded is about 500kg, the unbraked maximum weight for the Outback, I think. This particular trailer is built to my specs so is uprated for a couple of purposes but this is probably the best tow car and trailer combination I have ever had.

The braked maximum weight is 1400kg or about 3080lb. This is just under the weight of the Outback.

There are a couple of things which probably make Outbacks in Australia a better tow car. They are fitted with the dual range transmission which gives about 20% reduction on first gear for good pull away and the Limited version is fitted with a self levelling rear suspension. As a general proposition, towing is better with an automatic than a manual.

I would thoroughtly recommend the Outback as a tow car.

Cheers

Graham

2ndwnd

I looked into Subarus initially because I was interested in the Forester, and ended up with a Legacy Wagon. Never did drive a Forester. Coming from a mini-van, when I sat inside of one I knew it was too small for my purposes.
A lot of people who end up with the wagon get an Outback for that SUV type look. I was happy to stay with the L Wagon. To tell you the truth, I feel more unique and anti establishment with it considering all the SUV/SUWs out there today.
It all comes down to what suits you the best. I didn't have to drive both because I was able to eliminate one just by looking. If you are not sure, drive both and go from there. You won't lose either way, they are all very good vehicles.

Dave B.

jay_24

I agree with the others as well.
Forester is quicker and lighter feel. But also has a bit more road noise compared to the OB.
Look in the trunk area. The OB uses a lot more sound insulation and also a "doughnut" spare tire. The Forester uses a full size spare and leaves storage area.
I have the 2 kids and a 25 mile interstate commute to work.
I picked the OB after driving both.

--Jay

dlucas1

Our plan was to probably get a Forester, however after a test drive with both cars, I felt that the Outback was a smoother ride. I sat both in the front and back seats and I also their was more leg room in the back seat with the OB.

If we happen to get a second new car, I would get a Forester.

nygreg

We purchased an OB, but when looking my wife saw the Forester and liked it. However, we are car people and the car like feel of the OB we felt was better. We also needed the room with 3 kids (this was probably the main reason). If I were to get a second vehicle now it would most likely be a Forester in Sedona Red or Pearl Ridge Blue with the Premium pkg. However, our Sienna will have to do for a while.

Greg

rsholland

That dual-range transmission I believe is only on Subarus with manual transmissions. The automatics don't have that feature.

As to the self-leveling suspension, there's another feature I wish we had here in the States.

Bob

jagarland

Thanks for the input. I was aware that the European (and Australian) tow limit was much higher than here and Patty explained that they had to follow US begs which didn't allow them to authorize a higher limit. I hope that Subaru does what the have to do to raise the tow limit. Perhaps by offering a tow package that includes the modifications to meet a higher US limit.

Well, based on Graham's input, I may go back to considering an Outback. That brings up another question. Maybe the DC wouldn't be a good tow car unless you can turn off the DC when towing.... thoughts? I hear the 2002 VDC. will have an on/off switch. Any truth to the rumors?

jagarland

kens

John,

If I remember correctly, a VDC on/off switch is one of the confirmed features for 2002.

The best way to find out which is for you is to test drive both models. Both great vehicles, but they offer different driving experiences.

Ken

soon2bsubee

Susan got her first (and hopefully her only) flat tire yesterday...some piece of wood penetrated the sidewall of the rear driver side RE92. The car only has 3100 miles on it. $118 later, all is well. The only ones that carry them in stock here in S.Florida are the Firestone dealers. The good news...she called Subie Roadside assistance..they were great on the phone and arived in 15-20 minutes. She said they were very helpful and knowledgeable.

gtowngrad

I was the woman who wanted to know your opinions about the H4 of the OB versus the V6 of the Mits. Galant. I just wanted to thank those of you who shared your thoughts with me. On a side note, I posted a similar comparison question in the Galant forum and I got back one message that said how ugly the OB was and that the person wouldn't even consider a car if it wasn't beautiful on the outside, despite it's quality on the inside. I got so angry! I wrote back a message that defended the OB's looks and that basically said that I was trying to be a bit more practical, pointing out that many of the people in the forum felt they had been sucked in by the Galant's good looks only to find that it was a lemon. I shouldn't have taken it personally, but I guess my response shows where my heart lies in terms of which purchase to make! Thanks again!
Ann

armac13

you sound like a Subaru kind of person. :-) "The beauty of AWD."

Ross

nygreg

Many people get nasty when they are jealous. Just so you know, when it was time for my wife and I to get a new car we both said Outback, even though we never really discussed it before. 'We both love the way it looks, and she has good taste. ;-) Thanks for defending us and we look forward to you joining the ranks. BTW, my H4 has plenty of power for me and good gas mileage and seems to be running smoother and stronger as I break it in (2300 miles now).

Good luck in your search,
Greg

zintruder

I have a 1998 Legacy Outback. It has 120,000 miles on it. I have had all of the scheduled maintenance performed on it by the dealer. Just recently, after getting the 120,000 mile maintenance (60,000 x 2), done on it, the "check engine" light came on, the engine hesitates on initial excelleration, and the transmission SOMETIMES gets "stuck" in 1st gear. I took it back to the dealer and they don't know why the "check engine" light came on. They said it produced a code that they hadn't seen before, (It was either 0098 or 0099, I can't remember which), and turned the light off. The light came back on 4 days later. My main concern it the auto. trans. Any ideas?

goosegog

My wife and I bought an 00 OB 5spd after looking at Volvo wagons and Forester. We have a small tent trailer (about 1000lbs, no brakes). We used to tow with an old 6 litre V8 Dodge wagon...absolute buckets of torque but once up to speed you certainly knew the trailer was there, what with the side to side and back and forth movement it caused. And as for braking...don't even ask! The OB more or less ignores the trailer. There's an acceleration hit of course but that's it. This is a wagon with a trailer on the back, not a sports car. Handling is superb, better than most cars without a trailer, especially on wet roads. And the braking is fine too. If you are really interested I have some long posts on towing with this car, going back to October 2000.

US/Canuck towing capacity is 1000lb for a manual and 2000lb for an auto; why is this? I presume that the manual could also handle 2000lb but perhaps there's a clutch issue or something like that and Subaru want to protect themselves. But if, as someone says, the issue is also to do with legislation in the US, why do the Canuck cars have the same limit? Perhaps our legislators just slavishly follow the US example (although they didn't do that with daytime running lights...ours were mandated for the 1990 model year).

Luggage space in the Forester is simply not enough for our camping trips. Personally I don't like the square SUV type styling either, I'm a station wagon kind of guy (aargh! what am I saying?). They are the most practical of vehicles. But the Forester beats the heck out of toys like RAV4 and the totally useless Suzuki boy-racer Grand Vitara, which has less luggage space than most small hatchbacks.

I have never driven a Forester, but my wife has twice (dealership loaner) and she likes it, mostly because she finds it easier to park than the OB. It is shorter and she says it has better rearward visibility.

And I do find the Subaru people are fairly mellow, thoughtful and practical as a group. I read this before we bought and I thought, "What a load of BS!". But it seems to be true.

rsholland

Just read your profile. Interesting list of vehicles owned, to say the least. My only experience with a UK vehicle, is with an Austin Marina. Please... don't get me started on that...

Back to Subies: I wasn't aware of the manual vs. automatic restriction, in terms of trailer weight. I know, here in the States, Subaru restricts towing to 1000 lbs. if your trailer doesn't have brakes.

Bob

jagarland

Thanks for the response. My question was my concern with the VDC shutting off power when towing if it was activate. If there is definitely a VDC on/off switch, I don't have to worry.

Jack