My H6 with 8000 miles on it starts rough in the morning. After warming up no problem. Choke or idle acts weird when it's cold/damp. I live in Chicago area and we've just had first cold snap of season. Anyone else had this?
Too many to mention! Thanks much all of you. For paisan and cptplt I do have one question... For the situations you cited were you (or your relative!) using SNOW TIRES or the OEM tires? I haven't used snow tires in 20 years! How are the standard tires in moderate snow? Thanks again in advance and HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE! Ted
I usually put snowtires on in winter but I did make one of those trips to Iowa in the snowstorm with the OEM RE92s as I had just taken delivery of the car a few weeks before and my old snowtires didn't fit as they had made the brake rotors 1/2 in bigger in 98!!!!. If the RE92s have lots of tread they are ok, but once they start wearing down you are better off with proper snowtires. Snowtires allow you to stop in a shorter distance than with "all seasons" so its not just the traction aspect. CR did a comparison of all seasons and Blizzaks a few years ago, they consistently stoppped on ice/snow in the blizzaks in something like a car length or two less, more than enough to stop you getting into an accident. Of course the idiot with bald tires behind you will demolish your back end! The new winter tires these days also have special tread compounds in some makes which are much better on ice than in the past.
My H6 is just two weeks old and I have noticed the same thing over the last few days. At the same time I have been using a lower octane gas. It got worse when moving from mid to low octane gas. This could be just a coincidence but I will have to wait for the next refill to find out.
This is my take on it, most of you folks in the States have spent better than$22,000 to buy a base model outback, in Canada it is better than $32,000 to buy the same vehicle.
I think I would be correct in assuming that the AWD system was a big factor in choosing a Subaru, so my question is this. why would you severely hamper the capabilities of the AWD by saddling it with inferior all season tires.
After spending the amount you just did to buy the car in the first place $400 to$600 for snow tires seems piddling in comparison in order to fully exploit the AWD that you paid so dearly for.
I would agree that 400 bucks is a relatively small price to pay to keep your 20-30K car going. What really never ceases to amaze me though are the number of 50-60K German cars with bald tires. There are broadly speaking two types of people driving expensive imports IMHO, those who are OCD and would probably check their tire pressures daily and have a seperate set for every road condition and those who don't know where the dipstick is and think a 60K tire warranty means exactly that and you should drive until the tires are no longer legal even though they have 200+ HP going through their V or Z rated tires! Assuming they even know about tire ratings!
A while back, we were discussing the 30/29 psi F/R tire inflation recommended for the Outback. While I have not figured out why that is specified, I did find some tire design computations from a course I used to teach, and ran them for an Outback. Here are the results:
Some of the computations involve assumptions (elliptical tire cross-section) while others are very basic with no assumptions. For example, the contact patch area is just based on the weight the tire supports and the inflation pressure.
I put this stuff into an Excel spreadsheet, and have been playing with the numbers. Again, nothing jumps out that would explain the 30/29 spec. It may not be related to loading or the AWD system -- it could be a simple matter of directional stability or ride quality. And, if the inflations resulted in a different rolling diameter for front and rear tires, Subaru could account for it in gearing so that all else appears equal.
When I get some time, I may do a little experiment, by varying tire pressure and measuring the effective rolling diameter to see how it all correlates. Might provide some interesting results.
I know in auto-x I run the rears much lower than the fronts on my AT XT6 AWD. If I don't run significantly lower TP in the rear I will have the back end come around very easily in turns.
I have a question for you outback wagon owners. what are you all getting in gas milage for city driving? I'm only getting 18mpg. My salesman told me to wait till I have 5000 miles. well I have 7000 and still only 18mpg. any suggestions.
Cassieb, I believe the AWD city milage is very very dependent on your driving style. It is extremely adversely effected by lots of starts and stops. For instance, my XT6 gets about 17mpg in the city and 27 on the highway. My city driving is lots of stoplights, traffic, and heavy accelerations. It does seem like 18 is a bit low for a legacy though.
My Outback (an H6 but mileage should be about the same as for an H4 if that is what you are driving) has just over 2500 km and my mileage has varied between 22 and 24 miles per gallon. My mileage actually got worse after the 1000 mi break in. Almost certainly driver related.
Your 18 mpg is pretty low.
First, I would recommend you check your driving style. If you frequently go for a fast accel then that heavy outback body will suck gas like a pickup. Could be contaminated gas: try a different gas station. Check for blockages in the air intake.
It would help your case at the dealership if you went in with a list of things you have tried. When you eliminate the things you can control then it becomes more clear that it is a problem they have to fix.
I'm getting about 22 mpg overall, with most of it city driving (short commute of 5 minutes).
I have gotten 28 mpg on a nice long highway trip. My low is 17, which happened last December during the bitter cold snap we had (I let the car warm up a bit more also).
Keep in mind that also in the area where I live (southeast WI), we have to use a winter blend of gas that has more oxygenates and such in it to help burn better in the cold. This can affect MPG a bit (lower MPG).
Have you ever figured out what you get on a highway trip? There is some truth to engine mileage and MPG on Subies - when they're 'green' (under 5000 miles?), MPG may be lower than 'normal'. Some have posted that MPG has gone up over time and mileage. YMMV!
I have a 2K OB wagon, H4, 5-speed. In fairly intense suburban traffic (Seattle) with lots of short trips, we generally get about 21 mpg. On long trips, we've gotten upper 20s (at 75 mph or so with AC running) or a tad over 30 at slightly lower speeds (60-65) with no AC (fully loaded in both cases but clean roof). I know that winter formulated gasolines can knock or a mile or two, and cold temps in general don't help. Consider synthetic oils if you live somewhere truly cold.
Craig - Geez - what an analysis of the tire data! Am I allowed to stay on this site if I'm not an engineer? I'm only a molecular biologist, but I don't want to start down that road!
Depending where you live your gas formula varies greatly sometimes to bad results. In California, where we oxenigate our fuel with oil refinery by products which we pay more for in consumption & $$, my mileage has never been over 24 and now, Nov.-Feb. my mileage is 21mpg. Did I mention the new economic stimulus plan that gave big oil BILLIONS. <-sorry> steve-v
My winter MPG is similar to what you are experiencing (18-19 mpg) on my 2000 OB Ltd. Depending on where you live, "winter blend" gas, as Brian pointed out, can have a SIGNIFICANT impact especially if most of your miles are city miles. I have kept track of my MPG for the past year and there is about a 2-3 mpg difference between my winter versus summer MPG. Ron
Hi David, it is always confusing on these boards, are you talking Canadian (Imperial) or American gallon? If Canadian, your mileage seems low as well. I consistantly get 33 Hwy. miles per Canadian gallon with my H4 auto on midgrade.
I know what the sales people try to tell you, but does the H6 really perform as well as the H4 is terms of gas mileage?
Steve ~ I did not know that all those gas additives (I'm in Calif. too) lowered the mileage on top of the increased cost - may I join you in the rant?
Casseib ~ I'm now on my second full tank of gas in my new Bean, & the first tank gave me 18 MPG. Nearly all stop & go driving, but no heavy acceleration on the starts; I'm still trying to be gentle w/ the break-in. I was, however, running the climate control a lot, and also just sitting in it playing w/ all the doo-dads while I read the manual (I had to Read The Manual just to figure out how to defog the windshields - sheesh!). Anyway, the climate control runs the AC a LOT while warming up the interior, so I'm now overriding it & heating manually most of the time - the AC could certainly factor in to the low mileage. Might this apply to you as well, Casseib?
Gas price aside, I'm about to break the first 500 miles, and I'm still very much in love with this car! Main reason? The handling, the handling, the handling! I still could live without the bells & whistles, but I'm learning to like them anyway ;-). I bought a package of Meguiare's goodies at Costco - now if it would only stop raining long enough so that I could wash my car! (& believe me, this has NEVER been on my list of priorities before!)
Jillian, who is slowly starting to notice some of those OCD tendencies creeping in....
Hello C Hunter, I believe the reason for the higher front tire pressure is to keep the car from oversteering to a dangerous point. With equal pressure or more rear tire pressure the back end will have a tendency to come around on you during aggresive maneuvers.I personally run 32 frt & 31 rear.I find that to be an acceptable ride and to save the tire shoulders a lot of scrubbing wear.. GAS MILEAGE-- I now have 5000 miles on my ll bean and get 21 city driving with a high of 28 solid road trip.It does drop down to about 18 city this time of year in phila pa because of the oxygenated gas and the very short trips to the train due to cold weather,(1.1 mile). COLD WEATHER STARTING--- I to have expearienced the poor cold weather starting (have to crank for a good 10 seconds to start it when the temp drops below 30 first time in the morning.).I have heard a lot of other soobie owners of the h6 ,complain of the same problem. Some have had their computers reprogrammed to cure it. Also have the squeaky brakes when backing up first thing in the morning. LUCK TO ALL--JACK
Ken: if you're a molecular biologist, you know stuff that would blow most engineer's minds, and you automatically have my highest regards! So, stick around -- we need some real scientists here to keep engineers like me in check!
Cassie: I regularly got 23-24 mpg with my H4 Outback (5-spd) in mixed driving. Got 26 mpg on a trip once, but have never driven long enough distances (without traffic jams, that is) to get up in the 27-28 mpg range other folks get. Your 18 mpg does sound kind of low regardless of the mileage on the engine, so I would share your concern.
Mike, Jack: thanks for your input -- that makes a lot of sense. Lower pressure in the rear would definitely improve directional stability. I didn't think of it at first, but it's the same effect a vertical tail has on an airplane -- give it some yaw, and the tail kicks the airplane back straight.
I have an H4 5spd. and I been averaging 24 mpg. in 60/40 mixed city highway. The car has 1300 miles on it. It has gotten as much as 25+, however, that was in mid November. I am unsure, but I believe that here in central CT we are in "winter formulation" mode, and that has been responsible for not showing any improvement. I have been consistent at using Mobil 87 octane fuel, and the seems to run better every day! Not one single defect or problem detected......yet!
Has anyone experienced any wind noise in the Outback? I have an '02 Lmtd. This is on the driver's window and it's only a slight whistle, but is very annoying when driving. It only seems to occur while I am driving over 20 mph and it is slightly windy. I have pressed on the moulding of the window while driving and that doesn't seem to make it disappear. I have also examined the window from the outside and it seems to fit properly and it certainly doesn't leak. I drive the car, so I don't know whether the passenger side sounds that way or not. I have only had the car one month. Maybe it's something I just need to get used to.
Just test drove a L.L. Bean. Absolutely loved it. I found very few faults with it. Much less than any other car under $40,000 I’ve driven. I am looking for a nice looking reliable station wagon and have found none. So, I’ve been testing car based SUV’s like the VUE, CR-V and Highlander. My wife told me to try the Outback so reluctantly I did. I’m not too interested in AWD since I live where it rains very little. But I did enjoy this AWD, which turns both back and front wheels at the same time rather than most which only drive the fronts until slippage. There’s more sport in that than in any “sport” utility vehicle. I’ve read lots of reviews that said the H-6 cars were not worth the price. I whole-heartedly disagree. The interior was beautiful especially the wood and leather steering wheel. The ride was luxuriously smooth and quiet. Being fearful of seat comfort, I was pleasantly surprised how comfortable I was. The only thing I found lacking was a little too small back seat space. But I only have 1 boy and rarely carry anything large . There is no comparison on how good the Outback drives to any car based SUV. Yes you ride higher in a SUV but the ride is tippier and truckier. I think my wife would have no qualms driving the Outback but would be reluctant to pilot a SUV even a small one. Well, the only problem is I really didn’t want to spend that much. I know that you can deal more on an Outback than the trendier SUV’s. I researched carsdirect.com and found you can get the Bean close to invoice aprox. $27,700 and the only car I found comparable (price and desirability) was the 6 cyl. Highlander and its price is with 2WD and no leather. So after all the ranting here’s my question. I have a little boy and have a hard time getting out to test drive cars. Will I notice a big difference between the Bean and a 4 cyl Outback limited? Obviously it wont be as fast but I’m not buying a car to be Speed Racer. Will it ride the same? noise? Seat comfort? I’m afraid I’ve been spoiled by the Bean and probably won’t be happy with anything else.
I think the (desire for) AWD will grow on you. It's certainly the frosting on the cake. And, as you know, every cake needs some frosting...
The big difference between the H-6 and H-4 Outbacks is smoothness, and the H-6 has more highway punch. Around town, the power is similar. The H-6 also has a few more bells and whistles, such as auto-climate control which the H-4s don't have.
Also, while the gas mileage is similar, the H-6 runs best on high-test. That's the recommended fuel. The H-4s run on regular.
Steve: you may want to wait until the rebates come back. They had a $750 incentive for the 2001 models, so I expect at least as much for the 2002s. That and some aggressive shopping could get your price down to about $26,500.
I'm considering one, too. My dad has an Outback Ltd, and it's very nice, but we want the H6 or a turbo 2.5l.
I just saw the Vue at the DC Auto Show, and found it a big dissappointment. I have a soft spot for Saturns, but it was plasticky, with the worst seat comfort I've ever seen, especially the left rear for some reason. The cargo organizer was broken, too, and it generally was nothing special.
Today, we sold our '97 Outback after owning it for five years and driving it 78,500 miles. IT WAS AND IS A GREAT CAR.
In fact, my wife liked it so much (I wanted her to get a Highlander but I finally came to the inescapable conclusion that the Outback was such a good car and would get better mileage that I relented) we just bought an '02 LTD.
Well, it came in yesterday and, although not "deliverable" until Monday, we took it out on the road. It was late afternoon and the first thing that we realized is.....
WHEN YOU ADJUST THE PASSENGER SIDE MIRROR, IT BUMPS INTO THE AUTO-DIMMING REAR VIEW MIRROR AND KNOCKS IT OUT OF ADJUSTMENT. There are these extra lengths of visor on the upper left that UNAVOIDABLY contact the mirror.
THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY HAZARD! We immediately talked about it with the salesman and he more or less said he was aware of it, but it's just a stupid design and Subaru screwed up. He offered to see if there are any other mirrors in parts that they could install and eliminate this problem.
Has anyone else experienced this? If they can't fix it, I'm going to take it to a custom auto interior place, have them hack off that extension, finish it off nicely and SEND THE BILL TO SUABRU (I know......good luck!)
I only have Monday morning to rectify this before delivery. Any thoughts or help on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
I am confused. I have a 2001 H6 OB with the auto dimming mirror and there is no interference with any motion or part of the passenger visor. Are the visor designs different in 2002 or between OB versions?
I own a 99 Accord and assume all Accords with visor extenders have the same problem. It's a real pain but I think it's worth the hassle for the extra sun blockage, especially for my little boy who sits in the middle of the back seat. Can't figure any solution. Can't cut it because it's a leased car.
I sat in an '02 L.L. Bean and it has the EXACT problem as my LTD. On the passenger side, there is this extension on the upper left corner (a friend refers to them as "thumbs") that UNAVOIDABLY bump into the mirror when you move them. Do your visors have these?
Thanks for you input. Assuming the mirror is the same, maybe what I need to do is get '01 sun visors (lotsa luck there.)
Wind noise around the windows seems to come from two sources:
Door rubbers - fix is to check rubbers are seated properly in their seats by running your fingers around the moulding, flrexing it back and forward gently. Alos. leaving the dors open in hot weather eases the seals back. Probably not much use to you at this time of year.
Mirrors - Try taping around the various join lines on your drivers side mirror. progressively remoe pieces of tape and find if this returns the whistle. Often it is only a matter of folding and opening the mirror.
Steve: I agree wholeheartedly with your review of the LL Bean (I bought one about a month ago). It is a great car, but you may not realize that until you drive one. As a former 2000 H4-5spd Outback owner, I thought the Bean was overpriced. I figured it was just a regular Outback with a few bells and whistles and the H6. After driving a Bean, I was amazed at how much smoother, quieter, and more refined it felt compared to the H4 models, and the wood and leather look great. It is a totally different car, and lives up to it's more expensive pricing.
I test drove an Acura MDX and figured it would be on the top of my list. But, the LL Bean was a better vehicle overall. Compared to the MDX, the Bean's sticker price makes it a huge value. I really think the Bean can go head to head with the big boys, and it's not even a true luxury vehicle!! Kudos to Subaru.
If you feel like you have been spoiled by the Bean, then it's hopeless. Go buy one.
Bob: you need to adjust the mirror. If it is too high, it will interfere with the visors. Pivot the mirror down a little, and it will be fine.
Paisan makes a point in post 3811 that you would hardly need snow tires if you only got one to three storms a year.
Well today I had a chance to compare my GT wagon with snows back to back with a 2002 Outback that a friend just bought this week, it has the Potenza all seasons.
We had some light snow today about 3 or 4 inchs, so we went over to the local park and ride parking lot, it had the snow over some ice, while the outback was not out and out dangerous on the all seasons. it was definitely jittery and not confidence inspiring, the GT in comparison on snow tires felt like it was glued to the ground.
The upshot is that my friend was so impressed that he is buying steel wheels with snow tires for his outback tomorrow.
Now admittedly we live in Ottawa where snow is a given 4 or 5 months of the year but after this comparison today. if I only had those 1 to 3 storms a year I would want to be on snow tires rather than all seasons, they may just be the difference in whether you have an accident or not, or whether you get home or not.
My 01 VDC has the little extensions. I played with it some more; I can see that if you pull the visors out of the clips and push them down and back toward the window that the extensions will hit the mirror. I assume that is what you mean. The same thing happens on the drivers side, right? We actually never do that; we pull them out of the clips only to rotate over to the side windows. It would seem that the technique would be to pull the visor out, then push it in keeping the visor level, then it misses the mirror. But maybe I am not understanding the problem; it wouldn't be the first time according to the wife.
I've encountered severe whistling when driving in heavy cross winds. Seems to be coming from the windshield at the A pillar. Fortunately, heavy cross winds are not very common where I live.
Visors - Mike is right in post #3841. The inside mirror is "double jointed". The mirror can be raised or lowered as well as aimed. (At least the non-auto dimming mirror.) Try moving the the whole mirror downward.
I'm looking at a GT, maybe a sedan since I don't necessarily need the extra room in the wagon. Just curious how you compare the ride and handling to an OB. Also, your thoughts on why you opted for the Legacy. Thanks. Jack
zxrsizer: I, too, have noticed this noise coming from the driver's side window, mainly in a certain speed range (25-50). I don't think it is the cargo bars on top. That was a problem on one that I test drove but the salesperson showed me how to fix it, and it is a different kind of whistle. If the cargo bars are even SLIGHTLY off center, they will whistle. This is pretty annoying if you ever have to remove them because they have to go back on perfectly straight or the angle will induce whistle. Thanks for the tip on the mirror; I'll try that tomorrow.
Well, I've had our '02 OB (Base with an auto-dim mirror and that's about it!) for about 2 weeks now. I love it! It rides so well and the huge practicality jump from our old car (a Saturn sedan) is great. I feel like I could fit half of Home Depot in my car now!
We went with the AT. So far, it is pretty decent as auto's go (I prefer manual but wifey no drive stick). I have seen no problems with "gear hunting" or anything so far and this is a pretty hilly region. It does seem to be too eager to upshift sometimes, leaving me stuck at 1300 RPM's when it was only at 2400 before. Esp. with all the hills, I wish it would "hold gear" a little more and not be so concerned with fuel economy.
Two questions from me now: 1) The accelerator pedal seems awfully "stiff". I.e. it takes more pressure than I am used to to push it down. Is this normal? Is there a way to loosen it? Seems like it will get tiring on long distances.
2) Is it normal for the fuel gauge to take a LONG time to read full? I filled up and watched the gauge slowly climb as I was driving but it took forever to get to full. ODD.
I also wanted to add that this has been a great board and definitely helped in my decision to purchase the Subie.
I will occasionally get wind noise on my '00 Outback. It will usually go away if I lower the window 1/16" (just touch the power window button). The window is probably out of adjustment slightly. My 5 speed gets 23-25 mpg on our S.E Wisconsin crap fuel, 24-28 mpg on non-reformulated good gas, and 21-24 mpg on winter blend fuel (only the government could come up with such STUPID fuel requirements). GAM2
You all have the same mirror. I have an 01 Bean and had the interference problem also. The fix is right there on the mirror stalk. It articulates on two ballbearings. Just adust the mirror so it is a little lower and it will not touch the sunvisor. It is possible that someone might complain about the rear visibility after the mirror is lowered a little, but I didn't have any problem at all (I'm 5-11)
New subject: I took my son to Portland today to pick up a 2k Forrester which was a lease return. It's a black L with 30kmiles and it looks very nice. First time I have driven a Forrester and was very impressed. From Portland to Longview, Wa where he lives is about 45miles of I-5. I set the cruise at 80 and it drove like a dream. We both had Hondas for about 10 years and it took about three drives in the Bean for him to decide he wanted a Sube. My other sons wife if driving a Camry and she is also casting a covetous eye at the Bean. You just can't beat that old work of mouth advertising.
BTW the Bean has 13.5k now and if there is anything wrong I haven't found it. What a great handling car. Oh the brakes still squeal when backing up in the morning (after the dealer shim kit), and the rubber mat in the back slips back and keeps the hatch from closing properly, but hey, these are not worthy of mention in the great sceme of things.
I haven't been posting much but I read the board pretty regularly. Everyone have a happy new year.
Just wanted to wish evrybody a safe and happy New year . Just turned 4k on my 02 outback and I love it . I have not noticed any problems with the auto trans .My shifts smoothly and when I want it to . It took about 500 miles of driving for it to adapt to the way I accelerate . I still have that knock on cold start up so I'm going to have the dealer look at it at my next service . Finally got the cold weather but no snow . Ohh well thats all .
Comments
If it's not being affected by a recall or stop-build order, you can find them in abundance at your local Fazda dealer. ;-)
-juice
Anyone else had this?
Thanks, Dan
For paisan and cptplt I do have one question...
For the situations you cited were you (or your
relative!) using SNOW TIRES or the OEM tires?
I haven't used snow tires in 20 years! How
are the standard tires in moderate snow?
Thanks again in advance and HAPPY NEW YEAR
EVERYONE!
Ted
-mike
Bob
I think I would be correct in assuming that the AWD system was a big factor in choosing a Subaru, so my question is this. why would you severely hamper the capabilities of the AWD by saddling it with inferior all season tires.
After spending the amount you just did to buy the car in the first place $400 to$600 for snow tires seems piddling in comparison in order to fully exploit the AWD that you paid so dearly for.
Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.
Cheers Pat
-mike
Tom
-mike
What really never ceases to amaze me though are the number of 50-60K German cars with bald tires. There are broadly speaking two types of people driving expensive imports IMHO, those who are OCD and would probably check their tire pressures daily and have a seperate set for every road condition and those who don't know where the dipstick is and think a 60K tire warranty means exactly that and you should drive until the tires are no longer legal even though they have 200+ HP going through their V or Z rated tires! Assuming they even know about tire ratings!
Some of the computations involve assumptions (elliptical tire cross-section) while others are very basic with no assumptions. For example, the contact patch area is just based on the weight the tire supports and the inflation pressure.
I put this stuff into an Excel spreadsheet, and have been playing with the numbers. Again, nothing jumps out that would explain the 30/29 spec. It may not be related to loading or the AWD system -- it could be a simple matter of directional stability or ride quality. And, if the inflations resulted in a different rolling diameter for front and rear tires, Subaru could account for it in gearing so that all else appears equal.
When I get some time, I may do a little experiment, by varying tire pressure and measuring the effective rolling diameter to see how it all correlates. Might provide some interesting results.
Craig
-mike
thanks cassieb
I believe the AWD city milage is very very dependent on your driving style. It is extremely adversely effected by lots of starts and stops. For instance, my XT6 gets about 17mpg in the city and 27 on the highway. My city driving is lots of stoplights, traffic, and heavy accelerations. It does seem like 18 is a bit low for a legacy though.
-mike
Your 18 mpg is pretty low.
First, I would recommend you check your driving style. If you frequently go for a fast accel then that heavy outback body will suck gas like a pickup.
Could be contaminated gas: try a different gas station.
Check for blockages in the air intake.
It would help your case at the dealership if you went in with a list of things you have tried. When you eliminate the things you can control then it becomes more clear that it is a problem they have to fix.
I have gotten 28 mpg on a nice long highway trip. My low is 17, which happened last December during the bitter cold snap we had (I let the car warm up a bit more also).
Keep in mind that also in the area where I live (southeast WI), we have to use a winter blend of gas that has more oxygenates and such in it to help burn better in the cold. This can affect MPG a bit (lower MPG).
Have you ever figured out what you get on a highway trip? There is some truth to engine mileage and MPG on Subies - when they're 'green' (under 5000 miles?), MPG may be lower than 'normal'. Some have posted that MPG has gone up over time and mileage. YMMV!
-Brian
I have a 2K OB wagon, H4, 5-speed. In fairly intense suburban traffic (Seattle) with lots of short trips, we generally get about 21 mpg. On long trips, we've gotten upper 20s (at 75 mph or so with AC running) or a tad over 30 at slightly lower speeds (60-65) with no AC (fully loaded in both cases but clean roof). I know that winter formulated gasolines can knock or a mile or two, and cold temps in general don't help. Consider synthetic oils if you live somewhere truly cold.
Craig - Geez - what an analysis of the tire data! Am I allowed to stay on this site if I'm not an engineer? I'm only a molecular biologist, but I don't want to start down that road!
Happy New Year to all from the PNW!
Ken in Seattle
<-sorry>
steve-v
I have kept track of my MPG for the past year and there is about a 2-3 mpg difference between my winter versus summer MPG.
Ron
I know what the sales people try to tell you, but does the H6 really perform as well as the H4 is terms of gas mileage?
Happy New Year everyone! Tom
-juice
Casseib ~ I'm now on my second full tank of gas in my new Bean, & the first tank gave me 18 MPG. Nearly all stop & go driving, but no heavy acceleration on the starts; I'm still trying to be gentle w/ the break-in. I was, however, running the climate control a lot, and also just sitting in it playing w/ all the doo-dads while I read the manual (I had to Read The Manual just to figure out how to defog the windshields - sheesh!). Anyway, the climate control runs the AC a LOT while warming up the interior, so I'm now overriding it & heating manually most of the time - the AC could certainly factor in to the low mileage. Might this apply to you as well, Casseib?
Gas price aside, I'm about to break the first 500 miles, and I'm still very much in love with this car! Main reason? The handling, the handling, the handling! I still could live without the bells & whistles, but I'm learning to like them anyway ;-). I bought a package of Meguiare's goodies at Costco - now if it would only stop raining long enough so that I could wash my car! (& believe me, this has NEVER been on my list of priorities before!)
Jillian, who is slowly starting to notice some of those OCD tendencies creeping in....
With equal pressure or more rear tire pressure the back end will have a tendency to come around on you during aggresive maneuvers.I personally run 32 frt & 31 rear.I find that to be an acceptable ride and to save the tire shoulders a lot of scrubbing wear..
GAS MILEAGE-- I now have 5000 miles on my ll bean and get 21 city driving with a high of 28 solid road trip.It does drop down to about 18 city this time of year in phila pa because of the oxygenated gas and the very short trips to the train due to cold weather,(1.1 mile).
COLD WEATHER STARTING--- I to have expearienced the poor cold weather starting (have to crank for a good 10 seconds to start it when the temp drops below 30 first time in the morning.).I have heard a lot of other soobie owners of the h6 ,complain of the same problem. Some have had their computers reprogrammed to cure it. Also have the squeaky brakes when backing up first thing in the morning.
LUCK TO ALL--JACK
I had automatically used American gallons since the Canadian gallon really isn't officially in use.
Don't pay too much attention to salesmen since I know more about the cars than they do thanks to this board and all the knowledgeable participants.
My mileage so far in mixed driving on a brand new engine suggests that the EPA ratings are about right.
Does anyone know how those EPA ratings are determined?
-juice
Cassie: I regularly got 23-24 mpg with my H4 Outback (5-spd) in mixed driving. Got 26 mpg on a trip once, but have never driven long enough distances (without traffic jams, that is) to get up in the 27-28 mpg range other folks get. Your 18 mpg does sound kind of low regardless of the mileage on the engine, so I would share your concern.
Mike, Jack: thanks for your input -- that makes a lot of sense. Lower pressure in the rear would definitely improve directional stability. I didn't think of it at first, but it's the same effect a vertical tail has on an airplane -- give it some yaw, and the tail kicks the airplane back straight.
Craig
Thanks.
M. Grim
-mike
I’ve read lots of reviews that said the H-6 cars were not worth the price. I whole-heartedly disagree. The interior was beautiful especially the wood and leather steering wheel. The ride was luxuriously smooth and quiet. Being fearful of seat comfort, I was pleasantly surprised how comfortable I was. The only thing I found lacking was a little too small back seat space. But I only have 1 boy and rarely carry anything large .
There is no comparison on how good the Outback drives to any car based SUV. Yes you ride higher in a SUV but the ride is tippier and truckier. I think my wife would have no qualms driving the Outback but would be reluctant to pilot a SUV even a small one.
Well, the only problem is I really didn’t want to spend that much. I know that you can deal more on an Outback than the trendier SUV’s. I researched carsdirect.com and found you can get the Bean close to invoice aprox. $27,700 and the only car I found comparable (price and desirability) was the 6 cyl. Highlander and its price is with 2WD and no leather.
So after all the ranting here’s my question. I have a little boy and have a hard time getting out to test drive cars. Will I notice a big difference between the Bean and a 4 cyl Outback limited? Obviously it wont be as fast but I’m not buying a car to be Speed Racer. Will it ride the same? noise? Seat comfort?
I’m afraid I’ve been spoiled by the Bean and probably won’t be happy with anything else.
Steve
The big difference between the H-6 and H-4 Outbacks is smoothness, and the H-6 has more highway punch. Around town, the power is similar. The H-6 also has a few more bells and whistles, such as auto-climate control which the H-4s don't have.
Also, while the gas mileage is similar, the H-6 runs best on high-test. That's the recommended fuel. The H-4s run on regular.
Bob
I'm considering one, too. My dad has an Outback Ltd, and it's very nice, but we want the H6 or a turbo 2.5l.
I just saw the Vue at the DC Auto Show, and found it a big dissappointment. I have a soft spot for Saturns, but it was plasticky, with the worst seat comfort I've ever seen, especially the left rear for some reason. The cargo organizer was broken, too, and it generally was nothing special.
-juice
Today, we sold our '97 Outback after owning it for five years and driving it 78,500 miles. IT WAS AND IS A GREAT CAR.
In fact, my wife liked it so much (I wanted her to get a Highlander but I finally came to the inescapable conclusion that the Outback was such a good car and would get better mileage that I relented) we just bought an '02 LTD.
Well, it came in yesterday and, although not "deliverable" until Monday, we took it out on the road. It was late afternoon and the first thing that we realized is.....
WHEN YOU ADJUST THE PASSENGER SIDE MIRROR, IT BUMPS INTO THE AUTO-DIMMING REAR VIEW MIRROR AND KNOCKS IT OUT OF ADJUSTMENT. There are these extra lengths of visor on the upper left that UNAVOIDABLY contact the mirror.
THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY HAZARD! We immediately talked about it with the salesman and he more or less said he was aware of it, but it's just a stupid design and Subaru screwed up. He offered to see if there are any other mirrors in parts that they could install and eliminate this problem.
Has anyone else experienced this? If they can't fix it, I'm going to take it to a custom auto interior place, have them hack off that extension, finish it off nicely and SEND THE BILL TO SUABRU (I know......good luck!)
I only have Monday morning to rectify this before delivery. Any thoughts or help on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
Mike
Steve
-mike
I sat in an '02 L.L. Bean and it has the EXACT problem as my LTD. On the passenger side, there is this extension on the upper left corner (a friend refers to them as "thumbs") that UNAVOIDABLY bump into the mirror when you move them. Do your visors have these?
Thanks for you input. Assuming the mirror is the same, maybe what I need to do is get '01 sun visors (lotsa luck there.)
Bob
I was not aware that there were any changes to thr visors in the 02 models.
Cheers Pat.
Wind noise around the windows seems to come from two sources:
Door rubbers - fix is to check rubbers are seated properly in their seats by running your fingers around the moulding, flrexing it back and forward gently. Alos. leaving the dors open in hot weather eases the seals back. Probably not much use to you at this time of year.
Mirrors - Try taping around the various join lines on your drivers side mirror. progressively remoe pieces of tape and find if this returns the whistle. Often it is only a matter of folding and opening the mirror.
Cheers
Graham
I test drove an Acura MDX and figured it would be on the top of my list. But, the LL Bean was a better vehicle overall. Compared to the MDX, the Bean's sticker price makes it a huge value. I really think the Bean can go head to head with the big boys, and it's not even a true luxury vehicle!! Kudos to Subaru.
If you feel like you have been spoiled by the Bean, then it's hopeless. Go buy one.
Bob: you need to adjust the mirror. If it is too high, it will interfere with the visors. Pivot the mirror down a little, and it will be fine.
Craig
Well today I had a chance to compare my GT wagon with snows back to back with a 2002 Outback that a friend just bought this week, it has the Potenza all seasons.
We had some light snow today about 3 or 4 inchs, so we went over to the local park and ride parking lot, it had the snow over some ice, while the outback was not out and out dangerous on the all seasons. it was definitely jittery and not confidence inspiring, the GT in comparison on snow tires felt like it was glued to the ground.
The upshot is that my friend was so impressed that he is buying steel wheels with snow tires for his outback tomorrow.
Now admittedly we live in Ottawa where snow is a given 4 or 5 months of the year but after this comparison today. if I only had those 1 to 3 storms a year I would want to be on snow tires rather than all seasons, they may just be the difference in whether you have an accident or not, or whether you get home or not.
Cheers Pat.
Mike
Visors - Mike is right in post #3841. The inside mirror is "double jointed". The mirror can be raised or lowered as well as aimed. (At least the non-auto dimming mirror.) Try moving the the whole mirror downward.
Jim
Well, I've had our '02 OB (Base with an auto-dim mirror and that's about it!) for about 2 weeks now. I love it! It rides so well and the huge practicality jump from our old car (a Saturn sedan) is great. I feel like I could fit half of Home Depot in my car now!
We went with the AT. So far, it is pretty decent as auto's go (I prefer manual but wifey no drive stick). I have seen no problems with "gear hunting" or anything so far and this is a pretty hilly region. It does seem to be too eager to upshift sometimes, leaving me stuck at 1300 RPM's when it was only at 2400 before. Esp. with all the hills, I wish it would "hold gear" a little more and not be so concerned with fuel economy.
Two questions from me now: 1) The accelerator pedal seems awfully "stiff". I.e. it takes more pressure than I am used to to push it down. Is this normal? Is there a way to loosen it? Seems like it will get tiring on long distances.
2) Is it normal for the fuel gauge to take a LONG time to read full? I filled up and watched the gauge slowly climb as I was driving but it took forever to get to full. ODD.
I also wanted to add that this has been a great board and definitely helped in my decision to purchase the Subie.
Thanks,
Jason Boswell
P.S. Did I mention that I love this car?
The window is probably out of adjustment slightly.
My 5 speed gets 23-25 mpg on our S.E Wisconsin crap fuel, 24-28 mpg on non-reformulated good gas, and 21-24 mpg on winter blend fuel (only the government could come up with such STUPID fuel requirements).
GAM2
New subject: I took my son to Portland today to pick up a 2k Forrester which was a lease return. It's a black L with 30kmiles and it looks very nice. First time I have driven a Forrester and was very impressed. From Portland to Longview, Wa where he lives is about 45miles of I-5. I set the cruise at 80 and it drove like a dream. We both had Hondas for about 10 years and it took about three drives in the Bean for him to decide he wanted a Sube. My other sons wife if driving a Camry and she is also casting a covetous eye at the Bean. You just can't beat that old work of mouth advertising.
BTW the Bean has 13.5k now and if there is anything wrong I haven't found it. What a great handling car. Oh the brakes still squeal when backing up in the morning (after the dealer shim kit), and the rubber mat in the back slips back and keeps the hatch from closing properly, but hey, these are not worthy of mention in the great sceme of things.
I haven't been posting much but I read the board pretty regularly. Everyone have a happy new year.
Guy
mike k